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Post by essexstokey on Sept 10, 2019 12:47:24 GMT
As said before the vote was 1 advisory and 2 has not been rejected all that the MP'S are trying to do is stopping the uk crashing out without a deal with our biggest trading partners. this would increase food prices by upto 6%, decrease exports as a 10% tariff would be put on all british goods going into Europe, bring in extra costs like paperwork etc. in addition there would be an distinct risk to the good Friday agreement with a hard border being put up in Ireland add to that the risk of the union of the uk breaking up. how can a hard brexit be any use to anyone!! Lets throw in a few other things: 1 people may not know but the European union are implementing a law that will effect the tax dodging mega rich where offshore accounts will have to declare there income the true reason that they support brexit. link 1link 22 Mogg/ borris/ farage et el all will make millions out of this as you and me will pay more for there riches link mogg farage link3 Boris's backer will make 300+ million if the economy tanks has he has bet it will link 4 those on low incomes or benefits will be proportionately hit the most with food price hikes pushing more into poverty and more to be reliant on food banks. So it looks like the ruling tories are governing for the few not the many Even borise's brother says its wrong and another 22 tories Have you got links for those first 3 points mate? As an impartial poster it's only fair that I question remainers on their sources, as well as leavers. just quick internet search will look again later
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Post by vokeswagen on Sept 10, 2019 21:11:16 GMT
Harry whereabouts is the Marxism in fraise's post? I'm not seeing any I must admit. Maybe you're struggling to understand the ideas because you're working from the position of assuming they're Marxist when in reality they're just common or garden left wing concepts I may well be mistaken, but I think the point Harry's trying to make is that a market economy (Churchill said the free market was the worst form of economic system..apart from all the others)is better for the vast majority of the population than any form of state-planned system. Remember that not all Countries are at the Post-Industrial Stage of Development..many are still in the Pre-Industrial Stage. It's a complete nonsense to talk about 'Sustainability' and 'well-being' when many African, South American, Asian Countries are struggling to produce even enough food to feed their populations. And countries that use State Planning as an Economic Model like Russia and China are some of the worst polluters on the planet. And commit the most horrendous forms of Human Rights abuses. State Planned Economies have no independent Judiciary remember. I may well be mistaken but I think Harry just hasn't got a fucking clue what Marxism actually means That was the only point I was making. There are a lot of other positions on the scale between a market economy and Marxism.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 10, 2019 21:22:07 GMT
I may well be mistaken, but I think the point Harry's trying to make is that a market economy (Churchill said the free market was the worst form of economic system..apart from all the others)is better for the vast majority of the population than any form of state-planned system. Remember that not all Countries are at the Post-Industrial Stage of Development..many are still in the Pre-Industrial Stage. It's a complete nonsense to talk about 'Sustainability' and 'well-being' when many African, South American, Asian Countries are struggling to produce even enough food to feed their populations. And countries that use State Planning as an Economic Model like Russia and China are some of the worst polluters on the planet. And commit the most horrendous forms of Human Rights abuses. State Planned Economies have no independent Judiciary remember. I may well be mistaken but I think Harry just hasn't got a fucking clue what Marxism actually means That was the only point I was making. There are a lot of other positions on the scale between a market economy and Marxism. I may well be mistaken but didn't Marx once say that a urinal was the only place in the world where the workers hold the means of production in their own hands? š
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Post by vokeswagen on Sept 10, 2019 21:28:45 GMT
I may well be mistaken but I think Harry just hasn't got a fucking clue what Marxism actually means That was the only point I was making. There are a lot of other positions on the scale between a market economy and Marxism. I may well be mistaken but didn't Marx once say that a urinal was the only place in the world where the workers hold the means of production in their own hands? š Wise bloke
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 10, 2019 21:31:56 GMT
I may well be mistaken but didn't Marx once say that a urinal was the only place in the world where the workers hold the means of production in their own hands? š Wise bloke Trust Marx to take the piss š
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Post by salopstick on Sept 10, 2019 21:39:16 GMT
This shambles of a government gave the opposition a chance to put their manifestos to the public in 5 weeks. The opposition declined. They lose all credibility to govern in the near future.
Labour conference coming up promising unicorns et al when they get into power but actually donāt want to get into power
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 11, 2019 8:23:06 GMT
This shambles of a government gave the opposition a chance to put their manifestos to the public in 5 weeks. The opposition declined. They lose all credibility to govern in the near future. Labour conference coming up promising unicorns et al when they get into power but actually donāt want to get into power Haven't this government been chucking money around just lately? Savid Javid last week boasted about the biggest spending program for 10 years. So when Labour spend money.. bad. When the Conservatives spend it..good. š²
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Post by Northy on Sept 11, 2019 8:26:35 GMT
This shambles of a government gave the opposition a chance to put their manifestos to the public in 5 weeks. The opposition declined. They lose all credibility to govern in the near future. Labour conference coming up promising unicorns et al when they get into power but actually donāt want to get into power Haven't this government been chucking money around just lately? Savid Javid last week boasted about the biggest spending program for 10 years. So when Labour spend money.. bad. When the Conservatives spend it..good. š² They normally borrow far too much though
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 11, 2019 8:31:40 GMT
Haven't this government been chucking money around just lately? Savid Javid last week boasted about the biggest spending program for 10 years. So when Labour spend money.. bad. When the Conservatives spend it..good. š² They normally borrow far too much though It's a fair point though, Northy, I would never vote for a Corbyn Labour Party but its a bit hypocritical to criticise their spending plans then announce that you're chucking money at people..to win votes. I thought the Tories were a low tax low spend Party?
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Post by M on Sept 11, 2019 8:43:15 GMT
They normally borrow far too much though It's a fair point though, Northy, I would never vote for a Corbyn Labour Party but its a bit hypocritical to criticise their spending plans then announce that you're chucking money at people..to win votes. I thought the Tories were a load tax low spend Party. I don't understand what I view as the irrational fear of loaning money. Our economy is built on borrowing money and based on how the money markets are now it is virtually free for the government to borrow. The problem with money is when you are borrowing money to run your 'house' and pay your bills. If you are borrowing money to invest it like do when we get a mortgage and the government does to invest it in to projects that enable growth it's sensible because they get a return on the minimal liability it creates. This has been backed up the the chancellor who is basically looking break their own self imposed limit on borrowing which many economists are telling them to do too. Simply, we need more investment. We need to borrow more to stimulate growth.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 11, 2019 9:19:54 GMT
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Post by spitthedog on Sept 11, 2019 9:26:52 GMT
At last the Govt does something positive. Well done!
Really delighted to hear that they have reversed decision to restrict foreign students stay in the UK. Foreign students will be allowed to stay on at least 2 years after studies to find employment.
We need more foreign students in the UK, we need their skills and we need their money especially in cities where there are now no industries or production and high street stores are closing down. Many cities are now dependent on international students and the money they bring into the country. It was a ridiculous knee jerk policy by May to try and appease the Little Englanders.
It's not Little Englanders who are providing us the skills, nor helping to subsidise our economy. Anybody with a basic understanding of the economy knows we need immigration.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 11, 2019 10:37:11 GMT
At last the Govt does something positive. Well done! Really delighted to hear that they have reversed decision to restrict foreign students stay in the UK. Foreign students will be allowed to stay on at least 2 years after studies to find employment. We need more foreign students in the UK, we need their skills and we need their money especially in cities where there are now no industries or production and high street stores are closing down. Many cities are now dependent on international students and the money they bring into the country. It was a ridiculous knee jerk policy by May to try and appease the Little Englanders. It's not Little Englanders who are providing us the skills, nor helping to subsidise our economy. Anybody with a basic understanding of the economy knows we need immigration. We need the right kind of immigration. People with skills who will make a contribution to the UK. Not 'health tourists' who cost the NHS billions. And while I'm in ranting mood you can fuck some of the bone idle useless English people off too. I don't care who you are or where you're from..make a contribution to this Country and you're welcome. Anytime.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 11, 2019 10:48:48 GMT
It's a fair point though, Northy, I would never vote for a Corbyn Labour Party but its a bit hypocritical to criticise their spending plans then announce that you're chucking money at people..to win votes. I thought the Tories were a load tax low spend Party. I don't understand what I view as the irrational fear of loaning money. Our economy is built on borrowing money and based on how the money markets are now it is virtually free for the government to borrow. The problem with money is when you are borrowing money to run your 'house' and pay your bills. If you are borrowing money to invest it like do when we get a mortgage and the government does to invest it in to projects that enable growth it's sensible because they get a return on the minimal liability it creates. This has been backed up the the chancellor who is basically looking break their own self imposed limit on borrowing which many economists are telling them to do too. Simply, we need more investment. We need to borrow more to stimulate growth. When governments borrow money they issue bonds which are bought on the financial markets. To attract funds the interest rates on these bonds need to be higher than the current market rate (obviously) So an increase in government borrowing will push up interest rates. Good if you are a saver. Not good if you have a repayment mortgage. Labour's plans (and the Conservatives, it now seems) to borrow tens of billions to finance their (Nationalisation) Economic programme(s) will lead to higher interest rates (significantly possibly) Higher interest rates lead to; 1) Higher prices 2) Increased import prices 3) Fall in output 4) Higher unemployment 5) Higher welfare payments/costs 6) Stoke being relegated ** Not a pretty picture is it? NB **Not actually true.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 11, 2019 10:58:54 GMT
'hard right' Boris is as liberal a Conservative as you'll ever get.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 11, 2019 11:51:18 GMT
'hard right' Boris is as liberal a Conservative as you'll ever get. The most right wing cabinet since the war. Boris will play whatever role he thinks will maximise Political advantage. Unfortunately having potentially broken the law today, him and Cummings better prepare themselves for some hard labour and dry bummings. As we know, the right wing lunatic, Patel wants to make criminals 'feel terror' c
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 11, 2019 11:55:00 GMT
Boris Johnson should resign if he has misled Queen about reasons for prorogation, says Dominic Grieve
"Dominic Grieve, the former Conservative attorney general and one of the 21 MPs who had the whip removed last week after rebelling over Brexit, has told BBC News that, if Boris Johnson misled the Queen about the reasons for prorogation, he should resign. If it were to be the case that the government had misled the Queen about the reasons for suspending parliament, and the motives for it, that would be a very serious matter indeed. Indeed, in my view, it would then be the moment for Mr Johnson to resign, and very swiftly".
What a frightful way to treat the anachronism that is the Queen. In her own gold plated holiday house as well.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 11, 2019 12:23:14 GMT
Damning stuff indeed. This is potentially huge when the other documents are released.
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Post by bathstoke on Sept 11, 2019 12:33:59 GMT
Haven't this government been chucking money around just lately? Savid Javid last week boasted about the biggest spending program for 10 years. So when Labour spend money.. bad. When the Conservatives spend it..good. š² They normally borrow far too much though We wouldnāt have to if there werenāt so many loopholes for corporations to avoid tax. & letās face it, this is the real reason that the likes of Bonzo, Moggy & the filthy rags that support them want out of the EU; Because they are pushing through legislation that would require financial transparency & expose monies squirrelled away in tax havens. It would stop the super rich hiding money & playing off countries against each other. Iām sure the Mail would be in uproar about it & get all their drone followers to sing to their tune. Brexit wonāt help us, but that legislation really would give us more power against fraud.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 11, 2019 12:40:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 13:12:31 GMT
It doesn't, it just means recognising that exponential growth is not possible on a finite planet. It's about making sure people aren't taking advantage and ruining things long term just to get short term gain. It's also about making sure people aren't taking advantage of others for their own gain. It won't happen. The people at the top won't allow anyone to share their resources (see the amount of money that has been put into PR campaigns against socialism), and it'll always be as it ever was. The rich keep the riches and make the poor fight among themselves. You need to give some examples of where this Marxist utopia has ever been even slightly successful as I'm really struggling to understand your ideas . As Churchill once said democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried How can you justify nations wasting trillions on space programs when the population of say china and India don't have a pot to piss in or the USA where they don't have basic healthcare . Are you saying the USA, China and India don't have enough money to get their people basic healthcare and a good quality of life? Because they do. That money should be coming away from businesses and towards working people, not away from useful scientific work. The issue isn't that all the money spent on space could be used to help people. It's that a significant portion of the obscene amount of money hoarded by rich people and corrupt businessmen/politicians could be spent to ensure people don't die from famine and thirst on a daily basis.
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Post by Davef on Sept 11, 2019 13:34:17 GMT
Apparently, only the Queen can recall Parliament after prorogation. That would be the end of Johnson, surely?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Sept 11, 2019 14:05:06 GMT
Ha ha ha all the remainers getting in a froth. The Scottish courts decision still needs to be tested in the UK Supreme Court along with another case from NI. Hearing set for 17th Sept I think. Grieve, Maughan, Labour activist Lewis Goodall, the Gaurdian all dancing to the Brexit Derangement Syndrome tune Lord Sumption was on the radio earlier explaining that the Government ask the palace to prorogue the palace automatically says yes. There's no conversation on detail. Boris wasn't even doing the asking.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 11, 2019 14:05:48 GMT
'hard right'Ā Boris is as liberal a Conservative as you'll ever get.Ā The most right wing cabinet since the war. Boris will play whatever role he thinks will maximise Political advantage. Unfortunately having potentially broken the law today, him and Cummings better prepare themselves for some hard labour and dry bummings. As we know, the right wing lunatic, Patel wants to make criminals 'feel terror' c I fear that the prospect of 'hard labour' (Rough Trade) and dry bumming might encourage these perverted reprobates to break the Law more often. š²
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 11, 2019 14:17:27 GMT
Apparently, only the Queen can recall Parliament after prorogation. That would be the end of Johnson, surely? Yes, confirmed by Benn earlier. The Victorian ghost must be bricking it if it's in Erskine & May. He know's it's constitutionally right, even though it was him who went to Balmoral to physically aske for the prorogation!
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 11, 2019 14:30:57 GMT
Apparently, only the Queen can recall Parliament after prorogation. That would be the end of Johnson, surely? Yes, confirmed by Benn earlier. The Victorian ghost must be bricking it if it's in Erskine & May. He know's it's constitutionally right, even though it was him who went to Balmoral to physically aske for the prorogation! I wonder what they will do if Parliament is recalled. First, will they cancel the conferences? BTW, the conference season kicks off this coming Saturday with The Lib Dems and concludes with the SNP on October 15. If they do, what the fuck will they talk about. There is no functioning Government. So we need a GE. Maybe they just intend to sit about twiddling their thumbs for a month hurling abuse at each other before they get around to agreeing an election. Actually, recalling Parliament may well end up in the early General Election Johnson wants. Now, that would be very funny!!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 11, 2019 14:43:53 GMT
Yes, confirmed by Benn earlier. The Victorian ghost must be bricking it if it's in Erskine & May. He know's it's constitutionally right, even though it was him who went to Balmoral to physically aske for the prorogation! I wonder what they will do if Parliament is recalled. First, will they cancel the conferences? BTW, the conference season kicks off this coming Saturday with The Lib Dems and concludes with the SNP on October 15. If they do, what the fuck will they talk about. There is no functioning Government. So we need a GE. Maybe they just intend to sit about twiddling their thumbs for a month hurling abuse at each other before they get around to agreeing an election. Actually, recalling Parliament may well end up in the early General Election Johnson wants. Now, that would be very funny!! Don't think he can stand in an election if he's in prison mate In the meantime they can get him in front if the liaison committee to explain some of his bizarre behaviour and dissembling. Chase the documents that the Government need to provide after Monday's session, demand a statement on the 'ongoing' negotiations with the EU for a deal. Try and resurrect all the bills that got guillotined at the suspension. Lots to do if you're not running away from scrutiny!
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Sept 11, 2019 14:45:38 GMT
Apparently, only the Queen can recall Parliament after prorogation. That would be the end of Johnson, surely? Yes, confirmed by Benn earlier. The Victorian ghost must be bricking it if it's in Erskine & May. He know's it's constitutionally right, even though it was him who went to Balmoral to physically aske for the prorogation! It would appear that Victorian Dad is in the market for a bit of that dry bumming. Those police custody suites will be overflowing š®
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Post by harryburrows on Sept 11, 2019 15:01:32 GMT
You need to give some examples of where this Marxist utopia has ever been even slightly successful as I'm really struggling to understand your ideas . As Churchill once said democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others that have been tried How can you justify nations wasting trillions on space programs when the population of say china and India don't have a pot to piss in or the USA where they don't have basic healthcare . Are you saying the USA, China and India don't have enough money to get their people basic healthcare and a good quality of life? Because they do. That money should be coming away from businesses and towards working people, not away from useful scientific work. The issue isn't that all the money spent on space could be used to help people. It's that a significant portion of the obscene amount of money hoarded by rich people and corrupt businessmen/politicians could be spent to ensure people don't die from famine and thirst on a daily basis. China is communist, America is capitalism at its most brutal . Which system works best for the population? China has to suppress its population to make it work . America just lets them fend for themselves. What you are describing as your preferred solution has no long term future . It's been tried many times and all it's done is make everyone poorer especially the countries as a whole . China is wealthy because of its trade not because it penalizes its entrepreneurs and confiscates their wealth . Interesting piece in the papers today about the amount of capital leaving the country , not because of brexit but the fear of corbyn and his 70 s economic policies.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 11, 2019 15:05:32 GMT
I wonder what they will do if Parliament is recalled. First, will they cancel the conferences? BTW, the conference season kicks off this coming Saturday with The Lib Dems and concludes with the SNP on October 15. If they do, what the fuck will they talk about. There is no functioning Government. So we need a GE. Maybe they just intend to sit about twiddling their thumbs for a month hurling abuse at each other before they get around to agreeing an election. Actually, recalling Parliament may well end up in the early General Election Johnson wants. Now, that would be very funny!! Don't think he can stand in an election if he's in prison mate In the meantime they can get him in front if the liaison committee to explain some of his bizarre behaviour and dissembling. Chase the documents that the Government need to provide after Monday's session, demand a statement on the 'ongoing' negotiations with the EU for a deal. Try and resurrect all the bills that got guillotined at the suspension. Lots to do if you're not running away from scrutiny! He aināt going to jail. I mean, if Blair dodged it with his charge sheet, no politician will ever go down. The danger with what you are saying - basically Parliament looking to embarrass Johnson is it could be counterproductive in that it helps Boris in his people vs Parliament argument which is the pillar heāll be fighting the election on. āPreaching to the choirā and āOver egging the puddingā are a couple of idioms that are worth reflecting on if I was in Parliament just now.
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