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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 16, 2017 8:57:41 GMT
Butland Cameron Zouma Indi Pieters Fletcher Allen Shaq Bojan Sobhi Berahino Two new full backs,plus 2 or 3 of our youngsters on the subs bench,I would be happy enough with that.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 16, 2017 8:59:18 GMT
After today and with a few breaks in the transfer market Butland Edwards Indi Zouma Eric Fletch Delph Joe Ramadan Berahino Shaq Allen's position is questionable there for me with Imbula and Bojan potentially offering far more. He needs to return to be an all action box to boxer as that advanced role simply does not suit him. If we sign Delph, where would it leave him? Yeah if we're not going to deploy a number 10 and go with a midfield three, then Imbula has to be in there for me. I like Delph but I can see absolutely no point in signing him unless we sell Allen.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 16, 2017 18:10:37 GMT
Allen's position is questionable there for me with Imbula and Bojan potentially offering far more. He needs to return to be an all action box to boxer as that advanced role simply does not suit him. If we sign Delph, where would it leave him? Yeah if we're not going to deploy a number 10 and go with a midfield three, then Imbula has to be in there for me. I like Delph but I can see absolutely no point in signing him unless we sell Allen. Perhaps we're selling Adam? Imbula? Whelan? It seems like every time we are linked with a bloke you inform us that there is no point unless we sell someone. I don't get it.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2017 18:13:19 GMT
Yeah if we're not going to deploy a number 10 and go with a midfield three, then Imbula has to be in there for me. I like Delph but I can see absolutely no point in signing him unless we sell Allen. Perhaps we're selling Adam? Imbula? Whelan? It seems like every time we are linked with a bloke you inform us that there is no point unless we sell someone. I don't get it. Our midfield is completely unbalanced and overstocked with the same player.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 16, 2017 18:20:57 GMT
Perhaps we're selling Adam? Imbula? Whelan? It seems like every time we are linked with a bloke you inform us that there is no point unless we sell someone. I don't get it. Our midfield is completely unbalanced and overstocked with the same player. In what way? What are we missing. It appears to me we have most bases covered. Isn't Delph more like Adam and Imbula? Aren't one of these pair leaving?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2017 18:24:01 GMT
Our midfield is completely unbalanced and overstocked with the same player. In what way? What are we missing. It appears to me we have most bases covered. Isn't Delph more like Adam and Imbula? Aren't one of these pair leaving? A midfielder that can actually defend and protect the back 4. We don't have one. We have a raft of players that are box to boxers. I can't see Adam leaving. Cameron Fletcher Delph Allen Adam Afellay is the pool of central midfielders I think he'll aim for. Which is very poor.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 16, 2017 18:28:21 GMT
In what way? What are we missing. It appears to me we have most bases covered. Isn't Delph more like Adam and Imbula? Aren't one of these pair leaving? A midfielder that can actually defend and protect the back 4. We don't have one. We have a raft of players that are box to boxers. I can't see Adam leaving. Cameron Fletcher Delph Allen Adam Afellay is the pool of central midfielders I think he'll aim for. Which is very poor. Allen - voted best defensive midfielder in theEuros. Should be more than adequate if the manager reigns him in. Fletcher - being doing the defensive midfield job for WBA. Good solid signing. Cameron - done decent enough in that position. Zouma (if he comes) can play there. And Whelan is still here. That's 5.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2017 18:30:57 GMT
A midfielder that can actually defend and protect the back 4. We don't have one. We have a raft of players that are box to boxers. I can't see Adam leaving. Cameron Fletcher Delph Allen Adam Afellay is the pool of central midfielders I think he'll aim for. Which is very poor. Allen - voted best defensive midfielder in theEuros. Should be more than adequate if the manager reigns him in. Fletcher - being doing the defensive midfield job for WBA. Good solid signing. Cameron - done decent enough in that position. Zouma (if he comes) can play there. And Whelan is still here. That's 5. He's shown in the majority of his career that he isn't though. A nothing player. Fletcher is still a box to boxer though (he's said as much). Again, he goes AWOL and is better when he can go forward. Awful with the ball. And can't be trusted without a partner to cover him. Zouma should play there but won't. Whelan is the only one and he's been needed to be replaced for about 5 years now and finally looks like he'll leave.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 17, 2017 8:14:37 GMT
Yeah if we're not going to deploy a number 10 and go with a midfield three, then Imbula has to be in there for me. I like Delph but I can see absolutely no point in signing him unless we sell Allen. Perhaps we're selling Adam? Imbula? Whelan? It seems like every time we are linked with a bloke you inform us that there is no point unless we sell someone. I don't get it. I'm amazed that you don't 'get it'. Everything Bayern has said is completely on point.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 17, 2017 13:05:15 GMT
Perhaps we're selling Adam? Imbula? Whelan? It seems like every time we are linked with a bloke you inform us that there is no point unless we sell someone. I don't get it. I'm amazed that you don't 'get it'. Everything Bayern has said is completely on point. I don't get why we have to sell Joe Allen if we bring in Fabian Delph.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 17, 2017 13:11:57 GMT
If we bring in Delph, I'd like to see us try a midfield three of Fletcher, flanked by Allen on the right and Delph on the left, no number 10 but a narrow midfield three, all of whom can work hard - often how the Dutch national team has set up over the years. Boring maybe, but the most solid option we would have, I feel. This would work best if the full backs got forward (yes, we need new ones!) in support of the wide forwards (Shaq and Ramadan), and has the danger of leaving the lone striker somewhat exposed. Certainly one option for away games for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 13:13:01 GMT
I'm amazed that you don't 'get it'. Everything Bayern has said is completely on point. I don't get why we have to sell Joe Allen if we bring in Fabian Delph. The problem is, if we sign Delph, Hughes will have to play him, Fletcher and Allen, because none of those will be happy to sit on the bench. That means we still don't have a proper creative midfielder and we don't really have a proper defensive midfielder (although I assume that would be Fletcher). It means not playing Bojan or Imbula, whilst not replacing the creativity they bring. All we needed this summer, was a centre half, a right back, and a defensive midfielder in my opinion. So far it seems like we're doing well with the centre halves, and a youngster to push Erik, but for some reason we're flooding a midfield made up almost entirely of box-to-box/not particularly creative and not particularly great defensively midfielders with more of the exact same. Cameron is still the best defensive midfielder we have, and that says it all to me. We're buying midfielders we don't need, and not buying the midfielders we do.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 17, 2017 13:30:48 GMT
Hughes has never gone for a sitting defensive midfielder with us. He encouraged n'zonz to break free and has done the same with Whelan. He likes a more expansive type of player rather than a protector. Waste of a player, the back three/four shouldn't need protecting. Progressive nogger and that.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 17, 2017 14:27:56 GMT
I'm amazed that you don't 'get it'. Everything Bayern has said is completely on point. I don't get why we have to sell Joe Allen if we bring in Fabian Delph. I can't really add much to the excellent reply from lilfraise. Delph, Allen and Fletcher would all expect to start, which would mean us playing without a proper number 10, we'll just get Allen crow barred in there because there's nowhere else left for him to play. If you want to continue to see Berahino isolated up front then that's fine but I'm sure you don't. If we're not going to play with a number 10, then at the very least we're going to need Imbula in there but there's no space for him if we have all three of Delph, Allen and Fletcher here. You can't just keep accumulating players who play in exactly the same position. I actually think of the three of them that Delph is the best box to box midfielder and if Fletcher and Allen weren't already here, then I'd be clamouring for us to sign him.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 17, 2017 15:27:32 GMT
I don't get why we have to sell Joe Allen if we bring in Fabian Delph. I can't really add much to the excellent reply from lilfraise. Delph, Allen and Fletcher would all expect to start, which would mean us playing without a proper number 10, we'll just get Allen crow barred in there because there's nowhere else left for him to play. If you want to continue to see Berahino isolated up front then that's fine but I'm sure you don't. If we're not going to play with a number 10, then at the very least we're going to need Imbula in there but there's no space for him if we have all three of Delph, Allen and Fletcher here. You can't just keep accumulating players who play in exactly the same position. I actually think of the three of them that Delph is the best box to box midfielder and if Fletcher and Allen weren't already here, then I'd be clamouring for us to sign him. Why would we have to play any of them? Are they guaranteed a place? Are we scared of saying to a player 'you're on the bench son'? I dare say some will be sold.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 17, 2017 16:47:34 GMT
Back to the original post, assuming Arnie goes and just Zouma, Bruno and Delph arrive:
Butland
Cameron Zouma Martins Indi Pieters
Allen Fletcher Delph
Shaqiri Berahino Ramadan
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Post by hchpotter on Jul 17, 2017 16:58:21 GMT
Back to the original post, assuming Arnie goes and just Zouma, Bruno and Delph arrive: Butland Cameron Zouma Martins Indi Pieters Allen Fletcher Delph Shaqiri Berahino Ramadan But where are the goals coming from in any of these line-ups? Most of them last season came from Crouch, Arnie, Walters, Allen. In this set up Allen is moved further away from a goal scoring position. Is everyone comfortable with hanging the goal scoring hat on Berahino?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 17, 2017 17:36:51 GMT
I can't really add much to the excellent reply from lilfraise. Delph, Allen and Fletcher would all expect to start, which would mean us playing without a proper number 10, we'll just get Allen crow barred in there because there's nowhere else left for him to play. If you want to continue to see Berahino isolated up front then that's fine but I'm sure you don't. If we're not going to play with a number 10, then at the very least we're going to need Imbula in there but there's no space for him if we have all three of Delph, Allen and Fletcher here. You can't just keep accumulating players who play in exactly the same position. I actually think of the three of them that Delph is the best box to box midfielder and if Fletcher and Allen weren't already here, then I'd be clamouring for us to sign him. Why would we have to play any of them? Are they guaranteed a place? Are we scared of saying to a player 'you're on the bench son'? I dare say some will be sold. Clubs the size of Stoke can't afford to intentionally bring their top earning players here to sit on the bench. We're not a top six club. As for players being sold ... yeah that's what I said originally.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jul 17, 2017 17:42:18 GMT
Back to the original post, assuming Arnie goes and just Zouma, Bruno and Delph arrive: Butland Cameron Zouma Martins Indi Pieters Allen Fletcher Delph Shaqiri Berahino Ramadan But where are the goals coming from in any of these line-ups? Most of them last season came from Crouch, Arnie, Walters, Allen. In this set up Allen is moved further away from a goal scoring position. Is everyone comfortable with hanging the goal scoring hat on Berahino? Make no mistake goals are a huge problem for us next season. I struggle to see where they will come from with the expected line ups.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 17:46:27 GMT
Why would we have to play any of them? Are they guaranteed a place? Are we scared of saying to a player 'you're on the bench son'? I dare say some will be sold. Clubs the size of Stoke can't afford to intentionally bring their top earning players here to sit on the bench. We're not a top six club. As for players being sold ... yeah that's what I said originally. Are you saying you wouldn't have Ryan, Zouma AND Bruno in the squad then as all would be high earners all expecting to start? Surely you want as many quality players in the squad as your budget dictates and it's then up to Hughes to manage the dressing room dynamics. It's a squad game ultimately, if Delph came in and say Adam and Whelan depart it's up to Allen and Delph to perform week in week out to keep the jersey. If of course that's what Hughes is thinking.......
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 17, 2017 17:54:19 GMT
Clubs the size of Stoke can't afford to intentionally bring their top earning players here to sit on the bench. We're not a top six club. As for players being sold ... yeah that's what I said originally. Are you saying you wouldn't have Ryan, Zouma AND Bruno in the squad then as all would be high earners all expecting to start? Surely you want as many quality players in the squad as your budget dictates and it's then up to Hughes to manage the dressing room dynamics. It's a squad game ultimately, if Delph came in and say Adam and Whelan depart it's up to Allen and Delph to perform week in week out to keep the jersey. If of course that's what Hughes is thinking....... I'd have Ryan, Zouma and Bruno all in the starting XI never mind in the squad. But we were talking about an overload of box to box mids. You don't replace your current substitutes with players who are going to be your top earners.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 17:58:42 GMT
Are you saying you wouldn't have Ryan, Zouma AND Bruno in the squad then as all would be high earners all expecting to start? Surely you want as many quality players in the squad as your budget dictates and it's then up to Hughes to manage the dressing room dynamics. It's a squad game ultimately, if Delph came in and say Adam and Whelan depart it's up to Allen and Delph to perform week in week out to keep the jersey. If of course that's what Hughes is thinking....... I'd have Ryan, Zouma and Bruno all in the starting XI never mind in the squad. But we were talking about an overload of box to box mids. You don't replace your current substitutes with players who are going to be your top earners. So you're advocating 3 at the back or Zouma at right back/DM then, fair enough. I disagree though. If the manager keeps a happy squad and it's fits in the constraints of the budget I have no issues with it. Better players putting pressure on each other improves performances......
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 17, 2017 18:04:23 GMT
I'd have Ryan, Zouma and Bruno all in the starting XI never mind in the squad. But we were talking about an overload of box to box mids. You don't replace your current substitutes with players who are going to be your top earners. So you're advocating 3 at the back or Zouma at right back then, fair enough. I disagree though. If the manager keeps a happy squad and it's fits in the constraints of the budget I have no issues with it. Better players putting pressure on each other improves performances...... No I'd play Zouma as a defensive mid in a 4-2-3-1. But you are TOTALLY missing the point I'm making ... If Hughes DOES end up with Delph, Allen and Fletcher here, he won't do what you're suggesting at all. He actually WILL start them all because he won't be able to justify not doing so because of how much they are costing and it will be to the detriment of the balance of the team IMO. He'll also force himself into playing three at the back, even though we don't have any wing backs if he manages to sign Zouma and Bruno too. If Delph, Zouma and Bruno all sign, he'll end up with three centre backs and then Delph, Allen and Fletcher will be in front of them and he'll attempt to construct the rest of the XI around those 6 because they all have to start. Ramadan will probably find himself back on the bench as a consequence, even though Arnie will have left.
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Post by meirparkpotter on Jul 17, 2017 18:09:22 GMT
I think Cameron is under-rated in the middle... imgur.com/a/JfvSpMy starting 11 as things stand (minus Arnie as he'll be going) would be: Butland Johnson Shawcross Wolly Pieters Cameron Fletcher Shaqiri Bojan Sobhi Berahino With hopefully Indi and/or Zouma to come in for Wollscheid.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2017 18:12:58 GMT
So you're advocating 3 at the back or Zouma at right back then, fair enough. I disagree though. If the manager keeps a happy squad and it's fits in the constraints of the budget I have no issues with it. Better players putting pressure on each other improves performances...... No I'd play Zouma as a defensive mid in a 4-2-3-1. But you are TOTALLY missing the point I'm making ... If Hughes DOES end up with Delph, Allen and Fletcher here, he won't do what you're suggesting at all. He actually WILL start them all because he won't be able to justify not doing so because of how much they are costing and it will be to the detriment of the balance of the team IMO. He'll also force himself into playing three at the back, even though we don't have any wing backs if he manages to sign Zouma and Bruno too. If Delph, Zouma and Bruno all sign, he'll end up with three centre backs and then Delph, Allen and Fletcher will be in front of them and he'll attempt to construct the rest if the XI around those 6 because they all have to start. I'm not missing your point, but I am reading a hell of a lot of assumption there fella.....
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jul 17, 2017 18:14:35 GMT
So you're advocating 3 at the back or Zouma at right back then, fair enough. I disagree though. If the manager keeps a happy squad and it's fits in the constraints of the budget I have no issues with it. Better players putting pressure on each other improves performances...... No I'd play Zouma as a defensive mid in a 4-2-3-1. But you are TOTALLY missing the point I'm making ... If Hughes DOES end up with Delph, Allen and Fletcher here, he won't do what you're suggesting at all. He actually WILL start them all because he won't be able to justify not doing so because of how much they are costing and it will be to the detriment of the balance of the team IMO. He'll also force himself into playing three at the back, even though we don't have any wing backs if he manages to sign Zouma and Bruno too. If Delph, Zouma and Bruno all sign, he'll end up with three centre backs and then Delph, Allen and Fletcher will be in front of them and he'll attempt to construct the rest of the XI around those 6 because they all have to start. Ramadan will probably find himself back on the bench as a consequence, even though Arnie will have left. Put yer crystal ball down Paul. Or flip it over to the + pole for a minute mate.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 17, 2017 18:15:30 GMT
So you're advocating 3 at the back or Zouma at right back then, fair enough. I disagree though. If the manager keeps a happy squad and it's fits in the constraints of the budget I have no issues with it. Better players putting pressure on each other improves performances...... No I'd play Zouma as a defensive mid in a 4-2-3-1. But you are TOTALLY missing the point I'm making ... If Hughes DOES end up with Delph, Allen and Fletcher here, he won't do what you're suggesting at all. He actually WILL start them all because he won't be able to justify not doing so because of how much they are costing and it will be to the detriment of the balance of the team IMO. He'll also force himself into playing three at the back, even though we don't have any wing backs if he manages to sign Zouma and Bruno too. If Delph, Zouma and Bruno all sign, he'll end up with three centre backs and then Delph, Allen and Fletcher will be in front of them and he'll attempt to construct the rest of the XI around those 6 because they all have to start. Ramadan will probably find himself back on the bench as a consequence, even though Arnie will have left. Imbula proves your argument totally wrong. Record signing, nigh on the highest earner - out of the side. Not even on the bench.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 17, 2017 18:15:59 GMT
No I'd play Zouma as a defensive mid in a 4-2-3-1. But you are TOTALLY missing the point I'm making ... If Hughes DOES end up with Delph, Allen and Fletcher here, he won't do what you're suggesting at all. He actually WILL start them all because he won't be able to justify not doing so because of how much they are costing and it will be to the detriment of the balance of the team IMO. He'll also force himself into playing three at the back, even though we don't have any wing backs if he manages to sign Zouma and Bruno too. If Delph, Zouma and Bruno all sign, he'll end up with three centre backs and then Delph, Allen and Fletcher will be in front of them and he'll attempt to construct the rest if the XI around those 6 because they all have to start. I'm not missing your point, but I am reading a hell of a lot of assumption there fella..... I think they are perfectly reasonable assumptions mate. If we sign Zouma, Bruno and Delph, then I think they will all be absolute nailed on starters along with Fletcher, Allen and Ryan.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 17, 2017 18:16:46 GMT
Allen has also been left out.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 17, 2017 18:17:58 GMT
No I'd play Zouma as a defensive mid in a 4-2-3-1. But you are TOTALLY missing the point I'm making ... If Hughes DOES end up with Delph, Allen and Fletcher here, he won't do what you're suggesting at all. He actually WILL start them all because he won't be able to justify not doing so because of how much they are costing and it will be to the detriment of the balance of the team IMO. He'll also force himself into playing three at the back, even though we don't have any wing backs if he manages to sign Zouma and Bruno too. If Delph, Zouma and Bruno all sign, he'll end up with three centre backs and then Delph, Allen and Fletcher will be in front of them and he'll attempt to construct the rest of the XI around those 6 because they all have to start. Ramadan will probably find himself back on the bench as a consequence, even though Arnie will have left. Imbula proves your argument totally wrong. Record signing, nigh on the highest earner - out of the side. Not even on the bench. No it doesn't at all. Do you seriously think that when we brought Imbula here, we didn't expect him to be a regular starter?
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