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Post by foster on Aug 29, 2019 12:55:50 GMT
I think a lot of brexiers would like. A deal of some sort time limited T//A whilst we negotiate a free trade deal Indeed, but if the EU budge on the backstop they’re not going to budge on anything else, so essentially any deal will be along the lines of Mays deal with an alternative solution to the backstop, which will piss off brexiteers. How long would it take after Brexit to rejoin? Remainers may have to switch to the longer term plan B. Get out then get back in ASAP.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 12:58:38 GMT
I think a lot of brexiers would like. A deal of some sort time limited T//A whilst we negotiate a free trade deal Indeed, but if the EU budge on the backstop they’re not going to budge on anything else, so essentially any deal will be along the lines of Mays deal with an alternative solution to the backstop, which will piss off brexiteers. It doesn't really matter whether it's mays deal or not , it should be time limited , say 2 years then we leave deal or no deal , we have to negotiate a future trade deal anyway even if we leave on 31 st oct without a w//a in place if the EU are serious about a free trade agreement in the future . Plus it gives ustime to get the other deals world wide in place , the ability to do this's would be a pre condition
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 12:58:59 GMT
So long as there’s good will on both sides then a mutually beneficial deal is possible without either side having to take a major hit economically, only if there’s Ill will on one side will there be a problem, the eu cannot punish us with our sustaining damage to itself.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 13:00:36 GMT
Indeed, but if the EU budge on the backstop they’re not going to budge on anything else, so essentially any deal will be along the lines of Mays deal with an alternative solution to the backstop, which will piss off brexiteers. How long would it take after Brexit to rejoin? Remainers may have to switch to the longer term plan B. Get out then get back in ASAP. I hope labour pledge to do this in their manifesto .
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 13:02:20 GMT
So long as there’s good will on both sides then a mutually beneficial deal is possible without either side having to take a major hit economically, only if there’s Ill will on one side will there be a problem, the eu cannot punish us with our sustaining damage to itself. I don't think they care in Brussels, it's all about the project
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 13:13:01 GMT
So long as there’s good will on both sides then a mutually beneficial deal is possible without either side having to take a major hit economically, only if there’s Ill will on one side will there be a problem, the eu cannot punish us with our sustaining damage to itself. I don't think they care in Brussels, it's all about the project Certainly the Verhofstads, Barniers et al don’t care, but perhaps the individual nations will, Merkel in particular since we do a lot of trade with the Germans.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 13:14:20 GMT
Houses of lords now plotting to try and block brexit , sitting over the weekend ,
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 29, 2019 13:26:29 GMT
How long would it take after Brexit to rejoin? Remainers may have to switch to the longer term plan B. Get out then get back in ASAP. I hope labour pledge to do this in their manifesto . Why?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 29, 2019 13:30:32 GMT
Houses of lords now plotting to try and block brexit , sitting over the weekend , That's what we're up against. No doubt they will be the latest champions of democracy. Wonder if their being unelected will be a big deal with Remainers?
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 13:42:06 GMT
Houses of lords now plotting to try and block brexit , sitting over the weekend , That's what we're up against. No doubt they will be the latest champions of democracy. Wonder if their being unelected will be a big deal with Remainers? I think it's the EU subsidies I think
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 13:44:04 GMT
I hope labour pledge to do this in their manifesto . Why? See how many seats they lose , 70 % of the leave votes were in labour constituencies
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 29, 2019 14:35:15 GMT
I dont know whether to take that seriously or Im too stiff to see a joke. If you're stiff mate then maybe this will help you out... (could go either way) As for my post, it's half serious. I can't stand benefit cheats and I would love nothing more than to see the people who whinge and moan about foreigners taking our jobs to be forced into taking them when they become available. To be honest, there are jobs out there now and they don't take them, so maybe nothing will change. It would if the DWP grew a pair along with the government and made it a part of their JSA agreements, if they are fit enough to work they should be made to work or stop their benefits simple and it could be done if there was a will.
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 14:41:19 GMT
See how many seats they lose , 70 % of the leave votes were in labour constituencies Hence Corbyns wishy washy stance on brexit, even if he wanted to he can’t come out categorically against brexit without losing support/seats. Has Corbyn even stated what form of brexit is acceptable to him ? I know he’s come out against no deal, but also he wouldn’t even vote for Mays soft brexit, so what does he actually support ?
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Post by Northy on Aug 29, 2019 14:48:00 GMT
Houses of lords now plotting to try and block brexit , sitting over the weekend , Guy Fawkes anyone ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 14:55:18 GMT
See how many seats they lose , 70 % of the leave votes were in labour constituencies Hence Corbyns wishy washy stance on brexit, even if he wanted to he can’t come out categorically against brexit without losing support/seats. Has Corbyn even stated what form of brexit is acceptable to him ? I know he’s come out against no deal, but also he wouldn’t even vote for Mays soft brexit, so what does he actually support ? If it was just him and he was PM I reckon he’d be all for getting out. He’s traditionally being opposed to the EU. EU regulations stop him from implementing a lot of socialist ideas. This feel like some power play to get a GE. Perhaps he’s been turned by his party or the union I don’t know. As a Labour supporter I find the whole thing odd. I feel that’s why you’re not hearing a definite answer because hand on heart I don’t think he can say he doesn’t want to leave.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 29, 2019 15:02:47 GMT
See how many seats they lose , 70 % of the leave votes were in labour constituencies Hence Corbyns wishy washy stance on brexit, even if he wanted to he can’t come out categorically against brexit without losing support/seats. Has Corbyn even stated what form of brexit is acceptable to him ? I know he’s come out against no deal, but also he wouldn’t even vote for Mays soft brexit, so what does he actually support ? From memory a Brexit that includes staying in the single market and "a" customs union.
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 15:09:13 GMT
Hence Corbyns wishy washy stance on brexit, even if he wanted to he can’t come out categorically against brexit without losing support/seats. Has Corbyn even stated what form of brexit is acceptable to him ? I know he’s come out against no deal, but also he wouldn’t even vote for Mays soft brexit, so what does he actually support ? If it was just him and he was PM I reckon he’d be all for getting out. He’s traditionally being opposed to the EU. EU regulations stop him from implementing a lot of socialist ideas. This feel like some power play to get a GE. Perhaps he’s been turned by his party or the union I don’t know. As a Labour supporter I find the whole thing odd. I feel that’s why you’re not hearing a definite answer because hand on heart I don’t think he can say he doesn’t want to leave. Yeh, like a lot of lefties, he’s been anti Eu for years then switched to remain, he obviously calculated that his position would have been untenable had had he campaigned to leave so he meakly supported remain. He’s now using brexit to force a general election, but who in their right mind would want Corbyn negotiating brexit for us now ? He ruled out no deal because “the Eu doesn’t want a no deal” Mays surrender brino was apparently too hard for him, so what exactly is his idea of brexit ?
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 15:16:00 GMT
Hence Corbyns wishy washy stance on brexit, even if he wanted to he can’t come out categorically against brexit without losing support/seats. Has Corbyn even stated what form of brexit is acceptable to him ? I know he’s come out against no deal, but also he wouldn’t even vote for Mays soft brexit, so what does he actually support ? From memory a Brexit that includes staying in the single market and "a" customs union. In other words, not brexit, because to remain in the SM and CU you have to accept all the other things that go with them ie free movement.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 15:27:12 GMT
If it was just him and he was PM I reckon he’d be all for getting out. He’s traditionally being opposed to the EU. EU regulations stop him from implementing a lot of socialist ideas. This feel like some power play to get a GE. Perhaps he’s been turned by his party or the union I don’t know. As a Labour supporter I find the whole thing odd. I feel that’s why you’re not hearing a definite answer because hand on heart I don’t think he can say he doesn’t want to leave. Yeh, like a lot of lefties, he’s been anti Eu for years then switched to remain, he obviously calculated that his position would have been untenable had had he campaigned to leave so he meakly supported remain. He’s now using brexit to force a general election, but who in their right mind would want Corbyn negotiating brexit for us now ? He ruled out no deal because “the Eu doesn’t want a no deal” Mays surrender brino was apparently too hard for him, so what exactly is his idea of brexit ? In my opinion he’d be better letting it happen and fighting a GE on a proper labour manifesto. I think Brexit could be a good thing in the long term with a proper Labour government but the thought of what the Tories will do worries me - reckon everything good left will be sold to the highest bidder But it’s a bit far gone for that now. I think the damage is done with Corbyn and this master plan is going to backfire in his face. I’m confused to be honest as to what would apply if we went in a single market and customs union and why he’s supporting that - I’m assuming that doesn’t remove the red tape for say renationalising the railways. It doesn’t make sense to me as a Labour voter. The only Labour man who is making any sense to me in what he saying is George Galloway so that’s saying something 😂
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 15:37:27 GMT
Hence Corbyns wishy washy stance on brexit, even if he wanted to he can’t come out categorically against brexit without losing support/seats. Has Corbyn even stated what form of brexit is acceptable to him ? I know he’s come out against no deal, but also he wouldn’t even vote for Mays soft brexit, so what does he actually support ? From memory a Brexit that includes staying in the single market and "a" customs union. And they still voted against mays deal ! It's always been about grab for power
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 29, 2019 15:40:16 GMT
The referendum wasn’t about stopping immigration from Europe per-se, it was about taking back the power to set our own immigration laws (amongst other laws), that might not necessarily mean lowering immigration from Europe, it just means we decide and not Brussels. Power we had anyway!
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 15:40:41 GMT
Yeh, like a lot of lefties, he’s been anti Eu for years then switched to remain, he obviously calculated that his position would have been untenable had had he campaigned to leave so he meakly supported remain. He’s now using brexit to force a general election, but who in their right mind would want Corbyn negotiating brexit for us now ? He ruled out no deal because “the Eu doesn’t want a no deal” Mays surrender brino was apparently too hard for him, so what exactly is his idea of brexit ? In my opinion he’d be better letting it happen and fighting a GE on a proper labour manifesto. I think Brexit could be a good thing in the long term with a proper Labour government but the thought of what the Tories will do worries me - reckon everything good left will be sold to the highest bidder But it’s a bit far gone for that now. I think the damage is done with Corbyn and this master plan is going to backfire in his face. I’m confused to be honest as to what would apply if we went in a single market and customs union and why he’s supporting that - I’m assuming that doesn’t remove the red tape for say renationalising the railways. It doesn’t make sense to me as a Labour voter. The only Labour man who is making any sense to me in what he saying is George Galloway so that’s saying something 😂 It's because Labour would have to be far more business orientated to make a go of no deal brexit , hammering business and the financial sector won't win you any friends overseas
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 15:42:49 GMT
From memory a Brexit that includes staying in the single market and "a" customs union. In other words, not brexit, because to remain in the SM and CU you have to accept all the other things that go with them ie free movement. And our financial contributions aaand European jurisdictions and no outside trade deals . Basically worst of all worlds
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 29, 2019 15:43:04 GMT
Yeh, like a lot of lefties, he’s been anti Eu for years then switched to remain, he obviously calculated that his position would have been untenable had had he campaigned to leave so he meakly supported remain. He’s now using brexit to force a general election, but who in their right mind would want Corbyn negotiating brexit for us now ? He ruled out no deal because “the Eu doesn’t want a no deal” Mays surrender brino was apparently too hard for him, so what exactly is his idea of brexit ? In my opinion he’d be better letting it happen and fighting a GE on a proper labour manifesto. I think Brexit could be a good thing in the long term with a proper Labour government but the thought of what the Tories will do worries me - reckon everything good left will be sold to the highest bidder But it’s a bit far gone for that now. I think the damage is done with Corbyn and this master plan is going to backfire in his face. I’m confused to be honest as to what would apply if we went in a single market and customs union and why he’s supporting that - I’m assuming that doesn’t remove the red tape for say renationalising the railways. It doesn’t make sense to me as a Labour voter. The only Labour man who is making any sense to me in what he saying is George Galloway so that’s saying something 😂 Tony Benn thought along your lines in that he thought the EU was a barrier to proper socialism. Prestwich said on a different thread that he wished Corbyn had backed Brexit to support the Labour heartlands but has been too keen to placate Blairites in the party(I am paraphrasing). I, personally, think Prestwich is right, and Jezza has missed a trick.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 29, 2019 15:45:12 GMT
Momentum calling for road blocks in protests against no deal , party within a party ?
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Post by serpico on Aug 29, 2019 15:50:36 GMT
The referendum wasn’t about stopping immigration from Europe per-se, it was about taking back the power to set our own immigration laws (amongst other laws), that might not necessarily mean lowering immigration from Europe, it just means we decide and not Brussels. Power we had anyway! So, as a member of the Eu we could have just capped European immigration at 50 thousand if we’d wanted to ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 16:06:42 GMT
In my opinion he’d be better letting it happen and fighting a GE on a proper labour manifesto. I think Brexit could be a good thing in the long term with a proper Labour government but the thought of what the Tories will do worries me - reckon everything good left will be sold to the highest bidder But it’s a bit far gone for that now. I think the damage is done with Corbyn and this master plan is going to backfire in his face. I’m confused to be honest as to what would apply if we went in a single market and customs union and why he’s supporting that - I’m assuming that doesn’t remove the red tape for say renationalising the railways. It doesn’t make sense to me as a Labour voter. The only Labour man who is making any sense to me in what he saying is George Galloway so that’s saying something 😂 Tony Benn thought along your lines in that he thought the EU was a barrier to proper socialism. Prestwich said on a different thread that he wished Corbyn had backed Brexit to support the Labour heartlands but has been too keen to placate Blairites in the party(I am paraphrasing). I, personally, think Prestwich is right, and Jezza has missed a trick. Me too. A Tony Benn Brexit would have my full support. Shame we can't bring him back from the dead to sort this mess out! If this whole Brexit debate hadn't been conducted as a circus and both sides treated the public like they are as thick as two short planks then perhaps people wouldn't be as confused as they are. There has been no educated voice for Leave it's been taken over by the bigots, pompous and down right racists. That's the real shame here. Corbyn in my view should have been that voice. Some are trying (like Galloway) but you don't hear it. I don't think anyone can be blamed for their views on Brexit on that basis. The whole thing has been a shambles.
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 29, 2019 16:10:21 GMT
So, as a member of the Eu we could have just capped European immigration at 50 thousand if we’d wanted to ? No, but every administration since Blair could have implemented existing EU legislation to send home EU immigrants who couldn't keep themselves. Practically all other EU states did exactly that. Germany even went further by delaying EU rights for Romanians and Bulgarians for two years after accession to better prepare.
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 29, 2019 16:12:17 GMT
If you're stiff mate then maybe this will help you out... (could go either way) As for my post, it's half serious. I can't stand benefit cheats and I would love nothing more than to see the people who whinge and moan about foreigners taking our jobs to be forced into taking them when they become available. To be honest, there are jobs out there now and they don't take them, so maybe nothing will change. It would if the DWP grew a pair along with the government and made it a part of their JSA agreements, if they are fit enough to work they should be made to work or stop their benefits simple and it could be done if there was a will. The DWP seem to be doing just that! Terminally ill man's last words after benefits refusal because he 'wasn't sick enough' - Mirror Online Appalling; What Sort Of Country Are We? t.co/4V5Q06OZ0o
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 29, 2019 16:17:18 GMT
Tony Benn thought along your lines in that he thought the EU was a barrier to proper socialism. Prestwich said on a different thread that he wished Corbyn had backed Brexit to support the Labour heartlands but has been too keen to placate Blairites in the party(I am paraphrasing). I, personally, think Prestwich is right, and Jezza has missed a trick. Me too. A Tony Benn Brexit would have my full support. Shame we can't bring him back from the dead to sort this mess out! If this whole Brexit debate hadn't been conducted as a circus and both sides treated the public like they are as thick as two short planks then perhaps people wouldn't be as confused as they are. There has been no educated voice for Leave it's been taken over by the bigots, pompous and down right racists. That's the real shame here. Corbyn in my view should have been that voice. Some are trying (like Galloway) but you don't hear it. I don't think anyone can be blamed for their views on Brexit on that basis. The whole thing has been a shambles. Who are the leave leaders who are racists, just out of interest? And the uneducated ones?
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