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Post by foster on Aug 14, 2019 13:20:47 GMT
When you see Honda close it’s operations in Swindon, a truly massive site, you have to feel the pain... Big opportunity for a new operational base for something, affordable house production (government run?) wind turbine production, solar panel production ? To be honest, if leaving the EU meant the UK investing it's resources into becoming a world leader in sustainability and renewable energy projects then I'd be fully behind it. Alas however, we're lagging behind many western (and EU) countries on that front and our politicians would never do it. Especially since their policy is dictated by whatever Trump thinks/wants.
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Post by serpico on Aug 14, 2019 13:22:37 GMT
Many remain campaigners and MPs have stayed in campaign mode since the referendum result, they never accepted it and have tried bogging the process down purposely in the hope of reversing or rerunning the referendum, this has caused the uncertainty, not brexit per-se, and markets don’t like uncertainty.
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Post by foster on Aug 14, 2019 13:39:15 GMT
Many remain campaigners and MPs have stayed in campaign mode since the referendum result, they never accepted it and have tried bogging the process down purposely in the hope of reversing or rerunning the referendum, this has caused the uncertainty, not brexit per-se, and markets don’t like uncertainty. What i like about you mate is that you don't get personal like a lot of leavers on here. I agree with what you say, but it should be stressed that the Pro-remainers on this board (me at least) are not out there campaigning to cancel Brexit, nor are they sitting in government trying to find loopholes or block whatever process is going on. We're the same as most other people on this board in that we're just sitting back and watching the show. We have no input or influence on what's happening now. So my point is really that the constant 'remoaner' or 'remaniac' or anti-British comments that some leavers keep making on here about the remainers on here are just childish. Not to mention hurtful. Remainers have feelings too.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2019 13:40:30 GMT
it has been covered on here many times but for those who seem to be in denial and need reminding.....EU law trumps UK Law. All UK laws have to conform to EU directives and regulations, the Lisbon treaty makes it clear that ever closer union is the purpose of the EU, Political and Economic union and the project is not yet complete.
Regulations A "regulation" is a binding legislative act. It must be applied in its entirety across the EU. For example, when the EU wanted to make sure that there are common safeguards on goods imported from outside the EU, the Council adopted a regulation.
Directives A "directive" is a legislative act that sets out a goal that all EU countries must achieve. However, it is up to the individual countries to devise their own laws on how to reach these goals. One example is the EU consumer rights directive, which strengthens rights for consumers across the EU, for example by eliminating hidden charges and costs on the internet, and extending the period under which consumers can withdraw from a sales contract.
Decisions A "decision" is binding on those to whom it is addressed (e.g. an EU country or an individual company) and is directly applicable. For example, the Commission issued a decision on the EU participating in the work of various counter-terrorism organisations. The decision related to these organisations only.ttps://europa.eu/european-union/eu-law/legal-acts_en
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Post by Northy on Aug 14, 2019 13:50:33 GMT
You can’t count 0 hrs as jobs. I have witnessed people selling houses & they have dropped the prices. Can't believe people are using rising incomes and lower unemployment levels as a reason to leave the EU... when these are happening while we're 'IN' the EU. exiting the EU ...
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Post by Northy on Aug 14, 2019 13:54:49 GMT
Even if that is the case, the exact opposite of what the leave campaign said would happen also happenedIm a bit confused, do you mean that they said we'd leave and we didn't ? I mean that basically everything that anyone said during the referendum has been proven to be bullshit. the recent court case against Boris Johnson and leave campaign has finished and it said he'd got no case to answer
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Post by foster on Aug 14, 2019 13:59:16 GMT
Can't believe people are using rising incomes and lower unemployment levels as a reason to leave the EU... when these are happening while we're 'IN' the EU. exiting the EU ... Come on mate. Even the leavers on here have said that we're either in or out. We can't have a bit of both Currently we're in and post Oct 31st we'll be out. That's when the exiting will be done. You may bring up the fear mongering stuff again but I've already said that (imo) everything said during the referendum was bullshit on all sides. So for me it's irrelevant if someone said that unemployment would rise, or houses would decrease in price, or villages be plundered or fair maidens be ravished. It was all bullshit and doesn't change anything now. There is nothing in these national statistics to back up that staying or leaving is going to be better or worse. Everything will be clearer post Brexit.
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Post by foster on Aug 14, 2019 14:03:36 GMT
I mean that basically everything that anyone said during the referendum has been proven to be bullshit. the recent court case against Boris Johnson and leave campaign has finished and it said he'd got no case to answer So by that logic no remainers lied either. Don't try to defend Johnson mate. He's quite clearly a bullshitter. I've been impartial in clearly stating that both sides have lied repeatedly. At least do the same.
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Post by Northy on Aug 14, 2019 14:22:26 GMT
the recent court case against Boris Johnson and leave campaign has finished and it said he'd got no case to answer So by that logic no remainers lied either. Don't try to defend Johnson mate. He's quite clearly a bullshitter. I've been impartial in clearly stating that both sides have lied repeatedly. At least do the same. Can't see the logic in that, ones had a court case against him/them and no case to answer, the other side are the establishment yet to be quizzed. Weve seen in the last few days how an Obama aide has said Cameron asked Obama to say that UK will be the back of a queue for a trade deal to scaremonger, dirty tricks and forces etc.
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Post by foster on Aug 14, 2019 14:32:11 GMT
So by that logic no remainers lied either. Don't try to defend Johnson mate. He's quite clearly a bullshitter. I've been impartial in clearly stating that both sides have lied repeatedly. At least do the same. Can't see the logic in that, ones had a court case against him/them and no case to answer, the other side are the establishment yet to be quizzed. Weve seen in the last few days how an Obama aide has said Cameron asked Obama to say that UK will be the back of a queue for a trade deal to scaremonger, dirty tricks and forces etc. How can you not see the logic in that? There won't be any leavers being persecuted and no court case brought forward. In both cases it was a waste of time as Politicians can pretty much say whatever they want without any fear of persecution or accountability. I'm saying both sides have lied. Even though I'm pro remain I'm also capable of not being bias. Are you seriously saying that you believe everything that's come out of the leave campaign has been truthful?
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Post by serpico on Aug 14, 2019 14:36:19 GMT
Many remain campaigners and MPs have stayed in campaign mode since the referendum result, they never accepted it and have tried bogging the process down purposely in the hope of reversing or rerunning the referendum, this has caused the uncertainty, not brexit per-se, and markets don’t like uncertainty. What i like about you mate is that you don't get personal like a lot of leavers on here. I agree with what you say, but it should be stressed that the Pro-remainers on this board (me at least) are not out there campaigning to cancel Brexit, nor are they sitting in government trying to find loopholes or block whatever process is going on. We're the same as most other people on this board in that we're just sitting back and watching the show. We have no input or influence on what's happening now. So my point is really that the constant 'remoaner' or 'remaniac' or anti-British comments that some leavers keep making on here about the remainers on here are just childish. Not to mention hurtful. Remainers have feelings too. I meant the public figures, some in the media and some MPs who campaigned for remain, they’ve never really accepted the result and have carried on campaigning to remain with a constant barrage of negativity, doom mongering and calling into question the intelligence of leave voters by suggesting they were conned or scammed by internet ads or Russians or whatever else. There are definitely some in paliament, like the new Lib Dem leader, who want to block and stop brexit, they openly admit it, I think the greens leader has also ? These people, by definition of calling to stop brexit, are worthy of being called anti democratic.
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Post by foster on Aug 14, 2019 14:46:14 GMT
What i like about you mate is that you don't get personal like a lot of leavers on here. I agree with what you say, but it should be stressed that the Pro-remainers on this board (me at least) are not out there campaigning to cancel Brexit, nor are they sitting in government trying to find loopholes or block whatever process is going on. We're the same as most other people on this board in that we're just sitting back and watching the show. We have no input or influence on what's happening now. So my point is really that the constant 'remoaner' or 'remaniac' or anti-British comments that some leavers keep making on here about the remainers on here are just childish. Not to mention hurtful. Remainers have feelings too. I meant the public figures, some in the media and some MPs who campaigned for remain, they’ve never really accepted the result and have carried on campaigning to remain with a constant barrage of negativity, doom mongering and calling into question the intelligence of leave voters by suggesting they were conned or scammed by internet ads or Russians or whatever else. There are definitely some in paliament, like the new Lib Dem leader, who want to block and stop brexit, they openly admit it, I think the greens leader has also ? These people, by definition of calling to stop brexit, are worthy of being called anti democratic. I can see both sides of that argument. The reason they do that is because they (and a lot of people) see the referendum as being based on untruths and thus should be voided. A lot has also been learned since the referendum which was unknown at the time. Etc. etc. Let's put this situation into perspective. Let's say you had to vote for A) Getting a finger chopped off, or B) Getting a toe chopped off. Now I'd wager that most people (even more than 52%) would probably vote for the toe. In the end no one would like it but everyone would accept it. Then, after voting for that option you suddenly find out that not only do you have to have your toe cut off, but you also have to have your dick chopped off as well. You'd be demanding a 2nd referendum too.
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Post by serpico on Aug 14, 2019 15:17:18 GMT
I meant the public figures, some in the media and some MPs who campaigned for remain, they’ve never really accepted the result and have carried on campaigning to remain with a constant barrage of negativity, doom mongering and calling into question the intelligence of leave voters by suggesting they were conned or scammed by internet ads or Russians or whatever else. There are definitely some in paliament, like the new Lib Dem leader, who want to block and stop brexit, they openly admit it, I think the greens leader has also ? These people, by definition of calling to stop brexit, are worthy of being called anti democratic. I can see both sides of that argument. The reason they do that is because they (and a lot of people) see the referendum as being based on untruths and thus should be voided. A lot has also been learned since the referendum which was unknown at the time. Etc. etc. Let's put this situation into perspective. Let's say you had to vote for A) Getting a finger chopped off, or B) Getting a toe chopped off. Now I'd wager that most people (even more than 52%) would probably vote for the toe. In the end no one would like it but everyone would accept it. Then, after voting for that option you suddenly find out that not only do you have to have your toe cut off, but you also have to have your dick chopped off as well. You'd be demanding a 2nd referendum too. There’s always untruths and hyperbole in political campaigns on all sides, it’s just the nature of them, they’re basically sales pitches, what’s important Is there’s a robust debate in the lead up to the vote, which there was in 2016, everyone got a chance to hear claims and counter claims/rebuttals, IE theres not a person in the country who didn’t know that the side of the bus Nhs claim had been disputed, it was debated endlessly for 2 solid weeks, everyone had a chance to check the claim out, information has never been more readily available to voters.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 14, 2019 15:35:33 GMT
Beware this thread is currently being overwhelmed by a Remoaner.
But be patient. Hopefully he'll run out of steam soon - although that isn't certain.
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Post by prettything on Aug 14, 2019 15:55:49 GMT
Beware this thread is currently being overwhelmed by a Remoaner. But be patient. Hopefully he'll run out of steam soon - although that isn't certain. Leave him alone . He’s clearly more literate in his debate than you are.
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 14, 2019 16:35:57 GMT
It’s pitiful
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2019 16:54:51 GMT
Beware this thread is currently being overwhelmed by a Remoaner. But be patient. Hopefully he'll run out of steam soon - although that isn't certain. Underwhelmed
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Post by 4372 on Aug 14, 2019 17:02:54 GMT
I have said a few times on here that it's as much anti Tory as anti Brexit with some Labour supporters. Wonder why Owen changed his tune? British PM after 2010 General Election. David Cameron (Tory) Deputy PM after 2010 General Election. Nick Clegg (Lib Dem) British PM who promised a Referendum. David Cameron (Tory) British PM after 2015 General Election. David Cameron (Tory) British PM after 2016 Referendum. Teresa May. (Tory) British PM after 2017 General Election. Teresa May (Tory) British PM currently. Boris Johnson (Tory) I think it is safe to say the Tories have guided the Brexit fiasco. I wouldn't use the term "masterminded" myself.
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Post by serpico on Aug 14, 2019 17:13:13 GMT
I have said a few times on here that it's as much anti Tory as anti Brexit with some Labour supporters. Wonder why Owen changed his tune? British PM after 2010 General Election. David Cameron (Tory) Deputy PM after 2010 General Election. Nick Clegg (Lib Dem) British PM who promised a Referendum. David Cameron (Tory) British PM after 2015 General Election. David Cameron (Tory) British PM after 2016 Referendum. Teresa May. (Tory) British PM after 2017 General Election. Teresa May (Tory) British PM currently. Boris Johnson (Tory) I think it is safe to say the Tories have guided the Brexit fiasco. I wouldn't use the term "masterminded" myself. I Should have been clearer, I meant a lot of lefties think brexit was a Tory project from the beginning, when really they pretty much stumbled into it by agreeing a deal with Farage.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2019 17:26:29 GMT
I was talking to George Galloway yesterday ( 🤭) and this came up. The 2016 referendum was meant to be a once in a lifetime decision on our membership of the EU. It was the first opportunity that the public had to have a say having experienced life in the EU for 47 years.( When the referendum in 1973 was about membership of the European Economic Community.....we weren't told the full truth). It has not turned out as a once in a lifetime decision because some people can't accept the result.
Why not fully leave( ie BREXIT) and if it does not fully work out after say 7 years then reapply to join.....if the EU wanted us back they would be in a very strong position to dictate terms.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 14, 2019 17:40:31 GMT
I have said a few times on here that it's as much anti Tory as anti Brexit with some Labour supporters. Wonder why Owen changed his tune? British PM after 2010 General Election. David Cameron (Tory) Deputy PM after 2010 General Election. Nick Clegg (Lib Dem) British PM who promised a Referendum. David Cameron (Tory) British PM after 2015 General Election. David Cameron (Tory) British PM after 2016 Referendum. Teresa May. (Tory) British PM after 2017 General Election. Teresa May (Tory) British PM currently. Boris Johnson (Tory) I think it is safe to say the Tories have guided the Brexit fiasco. I wouldn't use the term "masterminded" myself. People from both main parties have wanted out for 40 odd years! You stating recent history means fuck all. It's a problem that's never gone away.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2019 17:43:01 GMT
If we manage to escape i think that the "EU" will make it a top priority to punish the UK. Barnier and Junker have said as much. Some on the EE board will ask" what do you expect?" Well if they genuinely want to cooperate with third countries and to help their own citizens then they should do their upmost to ensure smooth and productive relations. They should give the UK the respect that they would offer to any other country. I'm afraid that this project of ' Ever Closer Union", this vision for the European superstate, supercedes all else. It has been muted that the fact that Macron and Merkel don't have children has meant that they don't have a genuine commitment to the future. Not sure if that is true. But their extreme unchallengeable ideology is everything to them.
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 14, 2019 17:53:29 GMT
If we manage to escape i think that the "EU" will make it a top priority to punish the UK. Barnier and Junker have said as much. Some on the EE board will ask" what do you expect?" Well if they genuinely want to cooperate with third countries and to help their own citizens then they should do their upmost to ensure smooth and productive relations. They should give the UK the respect that they would offer to any other country. I'm afraid that this project of ' Ever Closer Union", this vision for the European superstate, supercedes all else. It has been muted that the fact that Macron and Merkel don't have children has meant that they don't have a genuine commitment to the future. Not sure if that is true. But their extreme unchallengeable ideology is everything to them. Doesn't macron now have children older than himself
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2019 17:56:31 GMT
If we manage to escape i think that the "EU" will make it a top priority to punish the UK. Barnier and Junker have said as much. Some on the EE board will ask" what do you expect?" Well if they genuinely want to cooperate with third countries and to help their own citizens then they should do their upmost to ensure smooth and productive relations. They should give the UK the respect that they would offer to any other country. I'm afraid that this project of ' Ever Closer Union", this vision for the European superstate, supercedes all else. It has been muted that the fact that Macron and Merkel don't have children has meant that they don't have a genuine commitment to the future. Not sure if that is true. But their extreme unchallengeable ideology is everything to them. Doesn't macron now have children older than himself I didn't know that Harry! I suppose that counts.
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Post by 4372 on Aug 14, 2019 17:58:29 GMT
British PM after 2010 General Election. David Cameron (Tory) Deputy PM after 2010 General Election. Nick Clegg (Lib Dem) British PM who promised a Referendum. David Cameron (Tory) British PM after 2015 General Election. David Cameron (Tory) British PM after 2016 Referendum. Teresa May. (Tory) British PM after 2017 General Election. Teresa May (Tory) British PM currently. Boris Johnson (Tory) I think it is safe to say the Tories have guided the Brexit fiasco. I wouldn't use the term "masterminded" myself. People from both main parties have wanted out for 40 odd years! You stating recent history means fuck all. It's a problem that's never gone away. Some people seem to think that the Tory (lack of) control and direction in this issue is unimportant. I am of the opinion that this is a Tory **** up, as much because of the poor management of the whole project as the misguided ideology behind it.
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Post by 4372 on Aug 14, 2019 17:59:54 GMT
And of course,it is likely to be a problem that still will not go away.
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Post by serpico on Aug 14, 2019 18:00:32 GMT
If we manage to escape i think that the "EU" will make it a top priority to punish the UK. Barnier and Junker have said as much. Some on the EE board will ask" what do you expect?" Well if they genuinely want to cooperate with third countries and to help their own citizens then they should do their upmost to ensure smooth and productive relations. They should give the UK the respect that they would offer to any other country. I'm afraid that this project of ' Ever Closer Union", this vision for the European superstate, supercedes all else. It has been muted that the fact that Macron and Merkel don't have children has meant that they don't have a genuine commitment to the future. Not sure if that is true. But their extreme unchallengeable ideology is everything to them. I’m not so sure the EU can afford to punish us without damaging themselves pretty badly in the processes ?
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Post by foster on Aug 14, 2019 18:06:47 GMT
If we manage to escape i think that the "EU" will make it a top priority to punish the UK. Barnier and Junker have said as much. Some on the EE board will ask" what do you expect?" Well if they genuinely want to cooperate with third countries and to help their own citizens then they should do their upmost to ensure smooth and productive relations. They should give the UK the respect that they would offer to any other country. I'm afraid that this project of ' Ever Closer Union", this vision for the European superstate, supercedes all else. It has been muted that the fact that Macron and Merkel don't have children has meant that they don't have a genuine commitment to the future. Not sure if that is true. But their extreme unchallengeable ideology is everything to them. Are you okay mate? No kids because they're not committed to the future? Hmmmm. Your hatred of the EU isn't normal.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2019 18:07:30 GMT
If we manage to escape i think that the "EU" will make it a top priority to punish the UK. Barnier and Junker have said as much. Some on the EE board will ask" what do you expect?" Well if they genuinely want to cooperate with third countries and to help their own citizens then they should do their upmost to ensure smooth and productive relations. They should give the UK the respect that they would offer to any other country. I'm afraid that this project of ' Ever Closer Union", this vision for the European superstate, supercedes all else. It has been muted that the fact that Macron and Merkel don't have children has meant that they don't have a genuine commitment to the future. Not sure if that is true. But their extreme unchallengeable ideology is everything to them. I’m not so sure the EU can afford to punish us without damaging themselves pretty badly in the processes ? Daniel Hannan once said that they would punish us even if it did affect the businesses and peoples of Europe. That's my point really , the project is more important than anything and the EU is a different entity than Europe.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 14, 2019 18:12:05 GMT
If we manage to escape i think that the "EU" will make it a top priority to punish the UK. Barnier and Junker have said as much. Some on the EE board will ask" what do you expect?" Well if they genuinely want to cooperate with third countries and to help their own citizens then they should do their upmost to ensure smooth and productive relations. They should give the UK the respect that they would offer to any other country. I'm afraid that this project of ' Ever Closer Union", this vision for the European superstate, supercedes all else. It has been muted that the fact that Macron and Merkel don't have children has meant that they don't have a genuine commitment to the future. Not sure if that is true. But their extreme unchallengeable ideology is everything to them. Are you okay mate? No kids because they're not committed to the future? Hmmmm. Your hatred of the EU isn't normal. Thought you might rise to that one.
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