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Post by oggyoggy on Aug 2, 2019 8:00:05 GMT
Do trade deals have expiry dates, or are they indefinite until one party decides to stop them? For example, the UK and Switzerland have agree to roll over their trade deal. Would that be for a certain time period or just until one of the two countries decideds to end the trade deal? I would imagine it depends on the deal. Like any contract, there will be get out clauses but also penalties for non-compliance. The thing is, trade deals are immensely complicated and often go way beyond trade and include details such as access to visas and benefits for each nation’s citizens in the other country etc. So they take years of negotiations.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 2, 2019 8:19:23 GMT
In other words this by election makes Parliament ever more distant from the population it is supposed to be representing meaning Parliament gains a Remainer while the country is still in favour of Brexit. Funny thing democracy! That's the fault of the Brexit Party for not standing aside for the now clearly pro-leave Tories. Conversations must have been had about it. It could be the Brexiters that fuck Brexit with strategic decisions like this. Yes indeed. The Tories would have won comfortably without Nigel's efforts.
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Post by Northy on Aug 2, 2019 8:34:12 GMT
In other words this by election makes Parliament ever more distant from the population it is supposed to be representing meaning Parliament gains a Remainer while the country is still in favour of Brexit. Funny thing democracy! Plaid cymru and the green party standing aside to let the liberals in, brexit party stealing tory votes, and only the die hards voting for labour Skull duggery going on against a democratic vote .....
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 2, 2019 9:04:07 GMT
In other words this by election makes Parliament ever more distant from the population it is supposed to be representing meaning Parliament gains a Remainer while the country is still in favour of Brexit. Funny thing democracy! Plaid cymru and the green party standing aside to let the liberals in, brexit party stealing tory votes, and only the die hards voting for labour Skull duggery going on against a democratic vote ..... The conspiracy continues.
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Post by foster on Aug 2, 2019 9:12:16 GMT
In other words this by election makes Parliament ever more distant from the population it is supposed to be representing meaning Parliament gains a Remainer while the country is still in favour of Brexit. Funny thing democracy! Plaid cymru and the green party standing aside to let the liberals in, brexit party stealing tory votes, and only the die hards voting for labour Skull duggery going on against a democratic vote ..... You make it sound like something like this has never happened before? How do you think Boris became PM. Promises, backhanders and golden handshakes. It's called Politics.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 2, 2019 9:42:17 GMT
Another possible interpretation: The Tories were stupid to put up the same candidate who had caused the by-election for expenses fraud. Perhaps he should not have had even so many votes. The BREXIT Party may be disappointed but it could be that they are pleased that the warning to the Tories remains... deliver BREXIT or we will fight every seat and while we might not win any....you might lose a few. The LibDems have become the anti liberal/ anti democratic Party who stand for the opposition to BREXIT rendering Labour irrelevant.... perhaps it's Labour who should be most concerned...in normal times if they perceive themselves as the Opposition they should have done far better in a by-election.....now usurped by the Lib Dems
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 2, 2019 11:13:28 GMT
That's the fault of the Brexit Party for not standing aside for the now clearly pro-leave Tories. Conversations must have been had about it. It could be the Brexiters that fuck Brexit with strategic decisions like this. Yes indeed. The Tories would have won comfortably without Nigel's efforts. Is he a spy in the camp?
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 2, 2019 12:21:32 GMT
Another possible interpretation: The Tories were stupid to put up the same candidate who had caused the by-election for expenses fraud. Perhaps he should not have had even so many votes. The BREXIT Party may be disappointed but it could be that they are pleased that the warning to the Tories remains... deliver BREXIT or we will fight every seat and while we might not win any....you might lose a few. The LibDems have become the anti liberal/ anti democratic Party who stand for the opposition to BREXIT rendering Labour irrelevant.... perhaps it's Labour who should be most concerned...in normal times if they perceive themselves as the Opposition they should have done far better in a by-election.....now usurped by the Lib Dems I think you are being rather generous to the Brexit party. Boris and co. got the message from the Euro Election and the Peterbrough by election where the Brexit party prevented a Tory win. What this result (and the Peterbrough one) confirmed is that when the Brexit party stands in a seat the Tories could win, they could well cause them to lose out to a remain party. I'd say NF and the BP need a serious think about their strategy because it starts to look like they could be the most likely cause of a 2nd referendum if as a result of their actions a GE is called and the Tories miss out on a load of seats because the leave vote is split resulting in a parliament with a majority or remain MPs.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 2, 2019 13:18:45 GMT
We are in a classic "democracy" dilemma.
There is no majority in favour of any policy, or to put it the other way round most people are against every policy, idea, or party.
A lot of countries have proportional representation as we do with the EU election. The result of that is parties do deals behind closed doors, coalitions are formed that have policies no one voted for.
We now have a new MP who is for remain, whereas most constituents voted to leave.
The result is a big wake up call for Boris and his part of the Tory party and for the Brexit party. If the remainers are prepared to do deals such that just one remain party stands unopposed by other remain parties, then I think the gloves are off and Boris needs to be doing a deal with Ferage. This may result in Boris throwing Tory MPs under a bus, splitting of the Tory party, and Boris being the second Lloyd George. Fortunately for him Labour are in total disarray and abandoned their traditional working class support in favour of left wing academics.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 2, 2019 13:24:06 GMT
We are in a classic "democracy" dilemma. There is no majority in favour of any policy, or to put it the other way round most people are against every policy, idea, or party. A lot of countries have proportional representation as we do with the EU election. The result of that is parties do deals behind closed doors, coalitions are formed that have policies no one voted for. We now have a new MP who is for remain, whereas most constituents voted to leave. The result is a big wake up call for Boris and his part of the Tory party and for the Brexit party. If the remainers are prepared to do deals such that just one remain party stands unopposed by other remain parties, then I think the gloves are off and Boris needs to be doing a deal with Ferage. This may result in Boris throwing Tory MPs under a bus, splitting of the Tory party, and Boris being the second Lloyd George. Fortunately for him Labour are in total disarray and abandoned their traditional working class support in favour of left wing academics. Yes, the Stop Brexit Brigade are willing to do anything to get their way. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
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Post by foster on Aug 2, 2019 13:35:23 GMT
We are in a classic "democracy" dilemma. There is no majority in favour of any policy, or to put it the other way round most people are against every policy, idea, or party. A lot of countries have proportional representation as we do with the EU election. The result of that is parties do deals behind closed doors, coalitions are formed that have policies no one voted for. We now have a new MP who is for remain, whereas most constituents voted to leave. The result is a big wake up call for Boris and his part of the Tory party and for the Brexit party. If the remainers are prepared to do deals such that just one remain party stands unopposed by other remain parties, then I think the gloves are off and Boris needs to be doing a deal with Ferage. This may result in Boris throwing Tory MPs under a bus, splitting of the Tory party, and Boris being the second Lloyd George. Fortunately for him Labour are in total disarray and abandoned their traditional working class support in favour of left wing academics. Yes, the Stop Brexit Brigade are willing to do anything to get their way. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Typical Bremoaners. Don't see Boris doing a deal with Nige myself. Although Trump did say that they would work well together so it must be true.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 2, 2019 13:43:05 GMT
Yes, the Stop Brexit Brigade are willing to do anything to get their way. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Typical Bremoaners. Don't see Boris doing a deal with Nige myself. Although Trump did say that they would work well together so it must be true. Ha ha, he's a fool if he doesn't. Anything goes in politics, as you said earlier. Just don't kid yourself your guys are the good guys. Each and every one is a cunt, and doesn't mind shitting on democracy. Looks like they will get away with it, too. If that makes you happy, fair enough. For me, we are no better than Russia, Zimbabwe and the like if we go down this route. And we are selfish?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Aug 2, 2019 13:43:55 GMT
Another possible interpretation: The Tories were stupid to put up the same candidate who had caused the by-election for expenses fraud. Perhaps he should not have had even so many votes. The BREXIT Party may be disappointed but it could be that they are pleased that the warning to the Tories remains... deliver BREXIT or we will fight every seat and while we might not win any....you might lose a few. The LibDems have become the anti liberal/ anti democratic Party who stand for the opposition to BREXIT rendering Labour irrelevant.... perhaps it's Labour who should be most concerned...in normal times if they perceive themselves as the Opposition they should have done far better in a by-election.....now usurped by the Lib Dems I think you are being rather generous to the Brexit party. Boris and co. got the message from the Euro Election and the Peterbrough by election where the Brexit party prevented a Tory win. What this result (and the Peterbrough one) confirmed is that when the Brexit party stands in a seat the Tories could win, they could well cause them to lose out to a remain party. I'd say NF and the BP need a serious think about their strategy because it starts to look like they could be the most likely cause of a 2nd referendum if as a result of their actions a GE is called and the Tories miss out on a load of seats because the leave vote is split resulting in a parliament with a majority or remain MPs. I think that I saying the same as you.....a warning to the Tories from the BP....we might not win any seats but if you don't deliver BREXIT then we will take votes from you and you might not win an election..... When Oct 31st passes the situation changes and the strategy could change at an election.... cooperation in certain seats by " Leave"
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Post by Davef on Aug 2, 2019 13:44:02 GMT
We are in a classic "democracy" dilemma. There is no majority in favour of any policy, or to put it the other way round most people are against every policy, idea, or party. A lot of countries have proportional representation as we do with the EU election. The result of that is parties do deals behind closed doors, coalitions are formed that have policies no one voted for. We now have a new MP who is for remain, whereas most constituents voted to leave. The result is a big wake up call for Boris and his part of the Tory party and for the Brexit party. If the remainers are prepared to do deals such that just one remain party stands unopposed by other remain parties, then I think the gloves are off and Boris needs to be doing a deal with Ferage. This may result in Boris throwing Tory MPs under a bus, splitting of the Tory party, and Boris being the second Lloyd George. Fortunately for him Labour are in total disarray and abandoned their traditional working class support in favour of left wing academics. I don't really see how democracy is served by a Prime Minister who was voted into his office by just over 100,000 of his party's members doing a deal with a man who once came third in an election behind a candidate dressed as a dolphin?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 2, 2019 13:48:29 GMT
We are in a classic "democracy" dilemma. There is no majority in favour of any policy, or to put it the other way round most people are against every policy, idea, or party. A lot of countries have proportional representation as we do with the EU election. The result of that is parties do deals behind closed doors, coalitions are formed that have policies no one voted for. We now have a new MP who is for remain, whereas most constituents voted to leave. The result is a big wake up call for Boris and his part of the Tory party and for the Brexit party. If the remainers are prepared to do deals such that just one remain party stands unopposed by other remain parties, then I think the gloves are off and Boris needs to be doing a deal with Ferage. This may result in Boris throwing Tory MPs under a bus, splitting of the Tory party, and Boris being the second Lloyd George. Fortunately for him Labour are in total disarray and abandoned their traditional working class support in favour of left wing academics. I don't really see how democracy is served by a Prime Minister who was voted into his office by just over 100,000 of his party's members doing a deal with a man who once lost an election to a candidate dressed as a dolphin? It could be served if the Leader Of The Opposition stayed true to his beliefs and backed Brexit unequivocally. People are dying for a change and he could also slay the likes of Thornberry and Watson if he went down this route. It's in his hands, Dave.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Aug 2, 2019 13:54:58 GMT
Just don't kid yourself your guys are the good guys. That's exactly how they've viewed it from day one though, Tricky. Remainers are all upstanding citizens filled with peace, love & tolerance. They're the bastions of truth telling, they understand how everything works, they know with certainty what the future holds & they're just looking out for the rest of us 'cos they're so kind & compassionate. Leavers on the otherhand are all thicko racist Nazi's who know fuck all about anything 'cos they're all controlled by Putin's Russia & have been pumped full of hatred & intolerance. The stupid Leave voting fucks need locking up, or even better killing off, so the morally superiour Remainers can continue to live in Utopia.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 2, 2019 13:55:52 GMT
We are in a classic "democracy" dilemma. There is no majority in favour of any policy, or to put it the other way round most people are against every policy, idea, or party. A lot of countries have proportional representation as we do with the EU election. The result of that is parties do deals behind closed doors, coalitions are formed that have policies no one voted for. We now have a new MP who is for remain, whereas most constituents voted to leave. The result is a big wake up call for Boris and his part of the Tory party and for the Brexit party. If the remainers are prepared to do deals such that just one remain party stands unopposed by other remain parties, then I think the gloves are off and Boris needs to be doing a deal with Ferage. This may result in Boris throwing Tory MPs under a bus, splitting of the Tory party, and Boris being the second Lloyd George. Fortunately for him Labour are in total disarray and abandoned their traditional working class support in favour of left wing academics. I don't really see how democracy is served by a Prime Minister who was voted into his office by just over 100,000 of his party's members doing a deal with a man who once came third in an election behind a candidate dressed as a dolphin? I think you are confusing parliament elections with presidential ones.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 2, 2019 14:00:42 GMT
Just don't kid yourself your guys are the good guys. That's exactly how they've viewed it from day one though, Tricky. Remainers are all upstanding citizens filled with peace, love & tolerance. They're the bastions of truth telling, they understand how everything works, they know with certainty what the future holds & they're just looking out for the rest of us 'cos they're so kind & compassionate. Leavers on the otherhand are all thicko racist Nazi's who know fuck all about anything 'cos they're all controlled by Putin's Russia & have been pumped full of hatred & intolerance. The stupid Leave voting fucks need locking up, or even better killing off, so the morally superiour Remainers can continue to live in Utopia. Spot on. The Moral Minority are far nastier in my experience. James O'Brien typifies them.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Aug 2, 2019 14:00:48 GMT
Just realised that if the Brexit Party and Conservatives get into bed, they'll be BRECON. Which funnily enough is the election that they lost because they weren't BRECON in Brecon.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 2, 2019 14:08:50 GMT
Just realised that if the Brexit Party and Conservatives get into bed, they'll be BRECON. Which funnily enough is the election that they lost because they weren't BRECON in Brecon.
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Post by foster on Aug 2, 2019 14:21:24 GMT
Typical Bremoaners. Don't see Boris doing a deal with Nige myself. Although Trump did say that they would work well together so it must be true. Ha ha, he's a fool if he doesn't. Anything goes in politics, as you said earlier. Just don't kid yourself your guys are the good guys. Each and every one is a cunt, and doesn't mind shitting on democracy. Looks like they will get away with it, too. If that makes you happy, fair enough. For me, we are no better than Russia, Zimbabwe and the like if we go down this route. And we are selfish? I'm under no illusions that all politicians aren't cunts mate. They are, and I don't trust or like any of them. I greet every tweet, speech or communication from politicians with the utmost skepticism. A bit like how I handle Franklins posts on this forum. I do think the anti-democracy tag is a bit unfair though. A lot has come to light since the referendum and it looks like none of the supposed 'perks' of leaving the EU will happen, or could ever have have been possible to begin with. If the farmers in Wales are now saying that a no-deal is going to be bad for them then surely that has to be taken into account. If they voted for Brexit initially then I'd assume that they weren't expecting it to come to this point. In that regard you would think it reasonable that people be given the opportunity to change their mind, now that the future is clearer. Going ahead with no-deal isn't a small matter either, or something that can be retracted. Once we're out, we're out indefinitely (or for a good number of years at least). The costs and implications of that on the country, certain industries and peoples lives 'could' be dire. Also, it's not like leave or remain have a significant majority either is it. Most polls put the country down as being quite evenly split. I would actually just hold a 2nd referendum and make voting mandatory. Then make it clear that whichever side loses has to fully accept the result and has no power to overturn it. A very simple... Leave ( includes No Deal) or Remain. No promises, no propaganda, just In or Out. I know a 2nd referendum isn't ideal, but with all the bollocks that's been spouted over the past 2 years and bitterness from all sides, a clean slate might be best.
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Post by foster on Aug 2, 2019 14:26:11 GMT
Just realised that if the Brexit Party and Conservatives get into bed, they'll be BRECON. Which funnily enough is the election that they lost because they weren't BRECON in Brecon. Admin?
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 2, 2019 14:51:28 GMT
Ha ha, he's a fool if he doesn't. Anything goes in politics, as you said earlier. Just don't kid yourself your guys are the good guys. Each and every one is a cunt, and doesn't mind shitting on democracy. Looks like they will get away with it, too. If that makes you happy, fair enough. For me, we are no better than Russia, Zimbabwe and the like if we go down this route. And we are selfish? I'm under no illusions that all politicians aren't cunts mate. They are, and I don't trust or like any of them. I greet every tweet, speech or communication from politicians with the utmost skepticism. A bit like how I handle Franklins posts on this forum. I do think the anti-democracy tag is a bit unfair though. A lot has come to light since the referendum and it looks like none of the supposed 'perks' of leaving the EU will happen, or could ever have have been possible to begin with. If the farmers in Wales are now saying that a no-deal is going to be bad for them then surely that has to be taken into account. If they voted for Brexit initially then I'd assume that they weren't expecting it to come to this point. In that regard you would think it reasonable that people be given the opportunity to change their mind, now that the future is clearer. Going ahead with no-deal isn't a small matter either, or something that can be retracted. Once we're out, we're out indefinitely (or for a good number of years at least). The costs and implications of that on the country, certain industries and peoples lives 'could' be dire. Also, it's not like leave or remain have a significant majority either is it. Most polls put the country down as being quite evenly split. I would actually just hold a 2nd referendum and make voting mandatory. Then make it clear that whichever side loses has to fully accept the result and has no power to overturn it. A very simple... Leave ( includes No Deal) or Remain. No promises, no propaganda, just In or Out. I know a 2nd referendum isn't ideal, but with all the bollocks that's been spouted over the past 2 years and bitterness from all sides, a clean slate might be best. You highlight something that concerns me about No Deal(I might be repeating myself, here!); are we deliberately being given a false choice? And why has it taken so long to arrive at this point? I think it's ok as a threat, a sort of nuclear option, but question why it jumped to the front of the queue somewhat with both Nige and Boris? Something doesn't ring true to me. If that's what they really want, why not join forces? I still think it's a fit up, Foster, and believe me I know how that sounds! I understand your point of view, I just think it sets a terrible precedent. We have to at least BELIEVE our vote means something!
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Post by foster on Aug 2, 2019 15:08:34 GMT
I'm under no illusions that all politicians aren't cunts mate. They are, and I don't trust or like any of them. I greet every tweet, speech or communication from politicians with the utmost skepticism. A bit like how I handle Franklins posts on this forum. I do think the anti-democracy tag is a bit unfair though. A lot has come to light since the referendum and it looks like none of the supposed 'perks' of leaving the EU will happen, or could ever have have been possible to begin with. If the farmers in Wales are now saying that a no-deal is going to be bad for them then surely that has to be taken into account. If they voted for Brexit initially then I'd assume that they weren't expecting it to come to this point. In that regard you would think it reasonable that people be given the opportunity to change their mind, now that the future is clearer. Going ahead with no-deal isn't a small matter either, or something that can be retracted. Once we're out, we're out indefinitely (or for a good number of years at least). The costs and implications of that on the country, certain industries and peoples lives 'could' be dire. Also, it's not like leave or remain have a significant majority either is it. Most polls put the country down as being quite evenly split. I would actually just hold a 2nd referendum and make voting mandatory. Then make it clear that whichever side loses has to fully accept the result and has no power to overturn it. A very simple... Leave ( includes No Deal) or Remain. No promises, no propaganda, just In or Out. I know a 2nd referendum isn't ideal, but with all the bollocks that's been spouted over the past 2 years and bitterness from all sides, a clean slate might be best. You highlight something that concerns me about No Deal(I might be repeating myself, here!); are we deliberately being given a false choice? And why has it taken so long to arrive at this point? I think it's ok as a threat, a sort of nuclear option, but question why it jumped to the front of the queue somewhat with both Nige and Boris? Something doesn't ring true to me. If that's what they really want, why not join forces? I still think it's a fit up, Foster, and believe me I know how that sounds! I understand your point of view, I just think it sets a terrible precedent. We have to at least BELIEVE our vote means something! I know, but if someone promised me something in return for my vote and then didn't/couldn't/wouldn't give it to me, then I'd want my vote back. It's like seeing an advert for a KFC Family Bucket and ordering one only to find that once it's delivered all the food in the bucket has been replaced with dog shit. I'd be wanting my money back. Yeah the bucket might look nice, but it's actually what's in the bucket that i wanted. Nothing would surprise me with politicians mate. Maybe there is some kind of masterplan to foil Brexit, or maybe there isn't.
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Post by foster on Aug 2, 2019 15:16:44 GMT
Just don't kid yourself your guys are the good guys. That's exactly how they've viewed it from day one though, Tricky. Remainers are all upstanding citizens filled with peace, love & tolerance. They're the bastions of truth telling, they understand how everything works, they know with certainty what the future holds & they're just looking out for the rest of us 'cos they're so kind & compassionate. Leavers on the otherhand are all thicko racist Nazi's who know fuck all about anything 'cos they're all controlled by Putin's Russia & have been pumped full of hatred & intolerance. The stupid Leave voting fucks need locking up, or even better killing off, so the morally superiour Remainers can continue to live in Utopia. That's a bit harsh. Deportation would be sufficient. ...and you forget to mention that leavers are in denial over global warming.
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Post by maxplonk on Aug 2, 2019 16:22:24 GMT
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Post by starkiller on Aug 2, 2019 16:49:37 GMT
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Post by harryburrows on Aug 2, 2019 16:59:19 GMT
You highlight something that concerns me about No Deal(I might be repeating myself, here!); are we deliberately being given a false choice? And why has it taken so long to arrive at this point? I think it's ok as a threat, a sort of nuclear option, but question why it jumped to the front of the queue somewhat with both Nige and Boris? Something doesn't ring true to me. If that's what they really want, why not join forces? I still think it's a fit up, Foster, and believe me I know how that sounds! I understand your point of view, I just think it sets a terrible precedent. We have to at least BELIEVE our vote means something! I know, but if someone promised me something in return for my vote and then didn't/couldn't/wouldn't give it to me, then I'd want my vote back. It's like seeing an advert for a KFC Family Bucket and ordering one only to find that once it's delivered all the food in the bucket has been replaced with dog shit. I'd be wanting my money back. Yeah the bucket might look nice, but it's actually what's in the bucket that i wanted. Nothing would surprise me with politicians mate. Maybe there is some kind of masterplan to foil Brexit, or maybe there isn't. I think there has been a EU wide attempt to frustrate and ultimately cancel Brexit , a Dutch politician said today they never expected the U.K. To leave without a deal and Johnson is just being confrontational in trying to leave . Despite the deal on offer , the only deal , the deal that will never be reopened has been rejected 3 times by parliament
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Post by lawrieleslie on Aug 3, 2019 6:07:44 GMT
We already have trade deals with many countries outside the EU that must have been set up by our EU masters. So , for example, wine from Australia and South America, lamb from New Zealand, fresh fruit and veg from South Africa and Israel, will not suddenly dry up as these countries have far too much at stake by losing our trade. The transition period of 2 years will be to negotiate separate trade deals with existing and new suppliers. These can be done quickly once we are unshackled from the EU restrictions as we will not have to get approval from 27 other countries and their regions which is why EU trade deals take took years to negotiate. As for setting up new trade agreements before Brexit Day, negotiations will certainly have been progressing but the the rubber stamping won’t happen until after Oct 31st. Those deals will cease if we leave with no deal on October 31st. We can still trade with those countries but won't enjoy the benefits of tariff free trade until we negotiate our own bespoke deals. There will be no transition period if we leave the EU with no deal. Do you think that negotiations aren’t or haven’t already taken place ready for a rubber stamp on Brexit Day?
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 3, 2019 7:40:21 GMT
I know, but if someone promised me something in return for my vote and then didn't/couldn't/wouldn't give it to me, then I'd want my vote back. It's like seeing an advert for a KFC Family Bucket and ordering one only to find that once it's delivered all the food in the bucket has been replaced with dog shit. I'd be wanting my money back. Yeah the bucket might look nice, but it's actually what's in the bucket that i wanted. Nothing would surprise me with politicians mate. Maybe there is some kind of masterplan to foil Brexit, or maybe there isn't. I think there has been a EU wide attempt to frustrate and ultimately cancel Brexit , a Dutch politician said today they never expected the U.K. To leave without a deal and Johnson is just being confrontational in trying to leave . Despite the deal on offer , the only deal , the deal that will never be reopened has been rejected 3 times by parliament Its funny how we only hear about the actual leave not being what we promised, how about the remain EU army, more tax and powers going to the EU dont recall this being part of the remain promises. There is rumours of a budget in october which I firmly expect to include the £350m a week for the nhs at which point its all over for remain.
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