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Post by followyoudown on Apr 28, 2019 15:39:00 GMT
And what would the question be ? The only short term things to discuss are contained in the transition arrangements . We have no idea yet what the long term relationship will be as the EU refuse to talk about it until we have left . The long term relationship is the one people should be discussing if indeed an indicative vote was offered not the short term transition deal which only runs until next year Doesn't even mention corbyns integral role in the peace process obviously made by a bunch of chancers
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Post by maxplonk on Apr 28, 2019 15:43:21 GMT
Speaking personally, it's a shame Rory Stewart is a remainer. He's exceptionally well versed and experienced, and has achieved a great deal in his young life. Under normal circumstances I would like to see him as leader of the Conservative Party and perhaps as a future PM. Maybe one day when all this settles down. Who knows? But he won't be allowed to forget this in a hurry.
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Post by maxplonk on Apr 28, 2019 15:45:05 GMT
And what would the question be ? The only short term things to discuss are contained in the transition arrangements . We have no idea yet what the long term relationship will be as the EU refuse to talk about it until we have left . The long term relationship is the one people should be discussing if indeed an indicative vote was offered not the short term transition deal which only runs until next year Really?
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Post by thevoid on Apr 28, 2019 15:59:11 GMT
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Post by thevoid on Apr 28, 2019 16:02:33 GMT
As opposed to being David Lammy- calling other people Nazis and getting fuck all for it? I wish I could get paid for insulting people, I'd buy John Caudwell's pad.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 17:36:13 GMT
Is an imminent Tory/Labour Brexit stitch up now looking more likely ? The dreadful Rebecca Long Soundbite says "Labour could sign up to a Brexit deal without a fresh referendum attached if the government makes significant concessions in the ongoing talks". Is the Brexit Party threat making the big two parties finally collude to stop our participation in the EU elections. If the MSM reports are correct surely the Labour faithful will be really up in arms if there is any Brexit deal and no "confirmatory vote". link
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 17:50:01 GMT
Well done auntie ! I can't make it unfortunately but I'm hoping another rally will be in my area so I can attend ! I agree over the candidates, they seem a very diverse spread of people with real desire to change and improve things ! Like the new avatar ! Ah, that's a shame. Fylde a quick blast up the M56(?) and M6 for you I would have thought. Thanks. British bulldog spirit and all that! I'll revert back to Sir Stan when we eventually leave. Until then the fight goes on. Never surrender! A fortunate change of plans mean that I can now attend - tickets just printed !
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 28, 2019 21:52:15 GMT
I posted this link a week or two ago and it has had little support. The people of this country should be informed of what the current costs of being member are. It is your money the government are spending are your behalf. Please support and pass on to your circle. petition.parliament.uk/petitions/253172
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 28, 2019 22:13:56 GMT
I posted this link a week or two ago and it has had little support. The people of this country should be informed of what the current costs of being member are. It is your money the government are spending are your behalf. Please support and pass on to your circle. petition.parliament.uk/petitions/253172Signed.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 29, 2019 7:29:55 GMT
Is an imminent Tory/Labour Brexit stitch up now looking more likely ? The dreadful Rebecca Long Soundbite says "Labour could sign up to a Brexit deal without a fresh referendum attached if the government makes significant concessions in the ongoing talks". Is the Brexit Party threat making the big two parties finally collude to stop our participation in the EU elections. If the MSM reports are correct surely the Labour faithful will be really up in arms if there is any Brexit deal and no "confirmatory vote". linkSo are we now at the point where it's considered a "stitch up" if a result voted for by 52% of voters is implemented by a coalition of political parties that were voted for by 82.4% of voters?
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Post by sorethumbs on Apr 29, 2019 8:07:33 GMT
Is an imminent Tory/Labour Brexit stitch up now looking more likely ? The dreadful Rebecca Long Soundbite says "Labour could sign up to a Brexit deal without a fresh referendum attached if the government makes significant concessions in the ongoing talks". Is the Brexit Party threat making the big two parties finally collude to stop our participation in the EU elections. If the MSM reports are correct surely the Labour faithful will be really up in arms if there is any Brexit deal and no "confirmatory vote". linkSo are we now at the point where it's considered a "stitch up" if a result voted for by 52% of voters is implemented by a coalition of political parties that were voted for by 82.4% of voters? Short answer is yes. It's a double stitch up. Stitch up one is that what is being implemented is BRINO - but then you already know this Rip (circular arguments again) Stitch up two is that any collusion between lab and cons if they manage to agree on a version of May's 'deal' would be in haste simply to try and thwart the momentum of the Brexit Party
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 8:08:45 GMT
Is an imminent Tory/Labour Brexit stitch up now looking more likely ? The dreadful Rebecca Long Soundbite says "Labour could sign up to a Brexit deal without a fresh referendum attached if the government makes significant concessions in the ongoing talks". Is the Brexit Party threat making the big two parties finally collude to stop our participation in the EU elections. If the MSM reports are correct surely the Labour faithful will be really up in arms if there is any Brexit deal and no "confirmatory vote". linkSo are we now at the point where it's considered a "stitch up" if a result voted for by 52% of voters is implemented by a coalition of political parties that were voted for by 82.4% of voters? I'm not starting the whole debate off again, it's been discussed, debated, and argued over so many times by countless posters. IMHO "a result voted for by 52% of voters" is NOT being implemented. The current "likely" outcome of staying in the Customs Union, Single Market, and ECJ, is NOT what myself and many others voted for when we envisaged what Brexit would mean. Even "call me Dave" spelt it out frequently enough to give us a clear idea of what a Leave vote would mean, I.e. out of the CU, out of the SM, and out of the ECJ. May's proposed WA, and also Labour's apparent current insistence on staying in a Customs Union etc, would be nothing more than BRINO. We will continue to disagree over this so best to leave it that way IMO as neither of us will change our views no matter how long it's debated.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Apr 29, 2019 8:36:16 GMT
Looking at the latest opinion polls The Brexit Party are ripping into the Torys vote share.
Expect the Torys to harden their Brexit stance rather than soften it.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 29, 2019 8:42:25 GMT
So are we now at the point where it's considered a "stitch up" if a result voted for by 52% of voters is implemented by a coalition of political parties that were voted for by 82.4% of voters? Short answer is yes. It's a double stitch up. Stitch up one is that what is being implemented is BRINO - but then you already know this Rip (circular arguments again) Stitch up two is that any collusion between lab and cons if they manage to agree on a version of May's 'deal' would be in haste simply to try and thwart the momentum of the Brexit Party Just to be clear - I don't already know that BRINO is being implemented. In fact I think BRINO is a made up invention so people who aren't getting their own way (i.e. no deal) can continue to be feel betrayed by the system and can try and distort what Brexit means by declaring that 17.1 million people think exactly the same as they do. Of course, any attempts to give people a chance for a no deal i.e. a second referendum are also classed as a "stitich up". So pretty much anything that doesn't invovle them getting their own way is a "stitch up".
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Post by partickpotter on Apr 29, 2019 8:43:40 GMT
Looking at the latest opinion polls The Brexit Party are ripping into the Torys vote share. Expect the Torys to harden their Brexit stance rather than soften it. I wouldn't expect that at all. They know they are fucked in any upcoming Euro election. But I doubt the various factions care very much. The ERG group will take solace in the strength of the Brexit party, the Tory Remoaners will carry on as before safe in their knowledge that they are protecting voters who, however well intentioned, are either too stupid or ignorant to understand what they are doing. In other words, nothing much will change!
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 29, 2019 8:46:11 GMT
So are we now at the point where it's considered a "stitch up" if a result voted for by 52% of voters is implemented by a coalition of political parties that were voted for by 82.4% of voters? I'm not starting the whole debate off again, it's been discussed, debated, and argued over so many times by countless posters. IMHO "a result voted for by 52% of voters" is NOT being implemented. The current "likely" outcome of staying in the Customs Union, Single Market, and ECJ, is NOT what myself and many others voted for when we envisaged what Brexit would mean. Even "call me Dave" spelt it out frequently enough to give us a clear idea of what a Leave vote would mean, I.e. out of the CU, out of the SM, and out of the ECJ. May's proposed WA, and also Labour's apparent current insistence on staying in a Customs Union etc, would be nothing more than BRINO. We will continue to disagree over this so best to leave it that way IMO as neither of us will change our views no matter how long it's debated. Indeed "Call me Dave" did spell out Brexit with his apolyptic warnings, as did Nigel Farage with his promises of "being like Norway". Maybe it's possible that both people had motives for either a) pushing the extreme leave option to encourage people to vote remain (in Cameron's case) or b) pushing the softest leave option forward to encourage people to vote leave based on the fact that it wouldn't be too much of a change (in Farage's case). In other words, both were playing the political game to encourage people to vote for their preferred options. The only thing that unites them both is that neither have had to face the consequences of their words.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 9:07:56 GMT
I'm not starting the whole debate off again, it's been discussed, debated, and argued over so many times by countless posters. IMHO "a result voted for by 52% of voters" is NOT being implemented. The current "likely" outcome of staying in the Customs Union, Single Market, and ECJ, is NOT what myself and many others voted for when we envisaged what Brexit would mean. Even "call me Dave" spelt it out frequently enough to give us a clear idea of what a Leave vote would mean, I.e. out of the CU, out of the SM, and out of the ECJ. May's proposed WA, and also Labour's apparent current insistence on staying in a Customs Union etc, would be nothing more than BRINO. We will continue to disagree over this so best to leave it that way IMO as neither of us will change our views no matter how long it's debated. Indeed "Call me Dave" did spell out Brexit with his apolyptic warnings, as did Nigel Farage with his promises of "being like Norway". Maybe it's possible that both people had motives for either a) pushing the extreme leave option to the fore to encourage people to vote remain (in Cameron's case) or b) pushing the softest leave option forward to encourage people to vote leave based on the fact that it wouldn't be too much of a change (in Farage's case). In other words, both were playing the political game to encourage people to vote for their preferred options. The only thing that unites them both is that neither have had to face the consequences of their words. I agree entirely with you about Cameron - I'm sure he did paint what he considered to be the "worst scenario" to encourage people to remain, in much the same way Osborne said there would be 800,000 job losses, an emergency budget etc etc . It looks like Farage was right though doesn't it when he claimed it would ultimately most likely turn out to be the softest leave option possible ? If May and Steptoe do eventually concoct a fudged "deal" it will no doubt be the softest "Brexit" possible, which would in effect be ULTRA BRINO. It would also obviously have the knock on effect of cancelling the U.K.'s involvement in the EU elections, which would thwart the Brexit Party's current surge in the polls. I think if this does happen the support for Farage and the Brexit Party will increase even more, as many people will see their "deal" for what it is, a complete stitch-up.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 29, 2019 9:21:16 GMT
Indeed "Call me Dave" did spell out Brexit with his apolyptic warnings, as did Nigel Farage with his promises of "being like Norway". Maybe it's possible that both people had motives for either a) pushing the extreme leave option to the fore to encourage people to vote remain (in Cameron's case) or b) pushing the softest leave option forward to encourage people to vote leave based on the fact that it wouldn't be too much of a change (in Farage's case). In other words, both were playing the political game to encourage people to vote for their preferred options. The only thing that unites them both is that neither have had to face the consequences of their words. I agree entirely with you about Cameron - I'm sure he did paint what he considered to be the "worst scenario" to encourage people to remain, in much the same way Osborne said there would be 800,000 job losses, an emergency budget etc etc . It looks like Farage was right though doesn't it when he claimed it would ultimately most likely turn out to be the softest leave option possible ? If May and Steptoe do eventually concoct a fudged "deal" it will no doubt be the softest "Brexit" possible, which would in effect be ULTRA BRINO. It would also obviously have the knock on effect of cancelling the U.K.'s involvement in the EU elections, which would thwart the Brexit Party's current surge in the polls. I think if this does happen the support for Farage and the Brexit Party will increase even more, as many people will see their "deal" for what it is, a complete stitch-up. So if Farage was right, what is all this stuff about betrayal? Brexit is going exactly the way he suggested when he campaigned for Brexit. I don't think May or Corbyn will be thinking too much about the EU election - only the next general election. Ultimately nothing will be decided by the EU election, given the unique nature of it this time round. At the beginning it appeared the Brexit Party said that these EU election shouldn't be happening, is it now their party policy that they think it will be a "stitch up" if they get cancelled because it'll be part of a conspiracy to stop the rise of the Brexit Party?
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Post by maxplonk on Apr 29, 2019 9:27:09 GMT
Something for the bus......
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 9:39:00 GMT
I agree entirely with you about Cameron - I'm sure he did paint what he considered to be the "worst scenario" to encourage people to remain, in much the same way Osborne said there would be 800,000 job losses, an emergency budget etc etc . It looks like Farage was right though doesn't it when he claimed it would ultimately most likely turn out to be the softest leave option possible ? If May and Steptoe do eventually concoct a fudged "deal" it will no doubt be the softest "Brexit" possible, which would in effect be ULTRA BRINO. It would also obviously have the knock on effect of cancelling the U.K.'s involvement in the EU elections, which would thwart the Brexit Party's current surge in the polls. I think if this does happen the support for Farage and the Brexit Party will increase even more, as many people will see their "deal" for what it is, a complete stitch-up. So if Farage was right, what is all this stuff about betrayal? Brexit is going exactly the way he suggested when he campaigned for Brexit. I don't think May or Corbyn will be thinking too much about the EU election - only the next general election. Ultimately nothing will be decided by the EU election, given the unique nature of it this time round. At the beginning it appeared the Brexit Party said that these EU election shouldn't be happening, is it now their party policy that they think it will be a "stitch up" if they get cancelled because it'll be part of a conspiracy to stop the rise of the Brexit Party? Are you deliberately being obtuse or do you just enjoy fishing ? Farage is entirely right in that he warned there would most likely ultimately be an ultra soft Brexit as opposed to the "No Deal" Brexit he wanted, and which Cameron also spelt out as the "worst case scenario". The fact that the shysters in Parliament have effectively limited us to either Brino or Remain, confirms exactly what Farage warned about - it is a complete and utter betrayal ! Anyway I 've wasted more than enough time on here this morning so I'm off out now to enjoy the sunshine ! Laters ! Have a nice day y'all !
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 29, 2019 9:46:47 GMT
So if Farage was right, what is all this stuff about betrayal? Brexit is going exactly the way he suggested when he campaigned for Brexit. I don't think May or Corbyn will be thinking too much about the EU election - only the next general election. Ultimately nothing will be decided by the EU election, given the unique nature of it this time round. At the beginning it appeared the Brexit Party said that these EU election shouldn't be happening, is it now their party policy that they think it will be a "stitch up" if they get cancelled because it'll be part of a conspiracy to stop the rise of the Brexit Party? Are you deliberately being obtuse or do you just enjoy fishing ? Farage is entirely right in that he warned there would most likely ultimately be an ultra soft Brexit as opposed to the "No Deal" Brexit he wanted, and which Cameron also spelt out as the "worst case scenario". The fact that the shysters in Parliament have effectively limited us to either Brino or Remain, confirms exactly what Farage warned about - it is a complete and utter betrayal ! Anyway I 've wasted more than enough time on here this morning so I'm off out now to enjoy the sunshine ! Laters ! Have a nice day y'all ! I'm talking about Farage actively promoting a Norway option (or something similar) as a positive option before the Referendum.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 29, 2019 10:00:03 GMT
I agree entirely with you about Cameron - I'm sure he did paint what he considered to be the "worst scenario" to encourage people to remain, in much the same way Osborne said there would be 800,000 job losses, an emergency budget etc etc . It looks like Farage was right though doesn't it when he claimed it would ultimately most likely turn out to be the softest leave option possible ? If May and Steptoe do eventually concoct a fudged "deal" it will no doubt be the softest "Brexit" possible, which would in effect be ULTRA BRINO. It would also obviously have the knock on effect of cancelling the U.K.'s involvement in the EU elections, which would thwart the Brexit Party's current surge in the polls. I think if this does happen the support for Farage and the Brexit Party will increase even more, as many people will see their "deal" for what it is, a complete stitch-up. So if Farage was right, what is all this stuff about betrayal? Brexit is going exactly the way he suggested when he campaigned for Brexit. I don't think May or Corbyn will be thinking too much about the EU election - only the next general election. Ultimately nothing will be decided by the EU election, given the unique nature of it this time round. At the beginning it appeared the Brexit Party said that these EU election shouldn't be happening, is it now their party policy that they think it will be a "stitch up" if they get cancelled because it'll be part of a conspiracy to stop the rise of the Brexit Party? Nothing is decided by any UK Euro election. It has always been an expression of a stance on EU membership. The UK electorate in general are not really interested. I'll be interested to hear your non- BREXIT EU issues when the manifestos are out
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 29, 2019 11:10:49 GMT
Short answer is yes. It's a double stitch up. Stitch up one is that what is being implemented is BRINO - but then you already know this Rip (circular arguments again) Stitch up two is that any collusion between lab and cons if they manage to agree on a version of May's 'deal' would be in haste simply to try and thwart the momentum of the Brexit Party Just to be clear - I don't already know that BRINO is being implemented. In fact I think BRINO is a made up invention so people who aren't getting their own way (i.e. no deal) can continue to be feel betrayed by the system and can try and distort what Brexit means by declaring that 17.1 million people think exactly the same as they do. Of course, any attempts to give people a chance for a no deal i.e. a second referendum are also classed as a "stitich up". So pretty much anything that doesn't invovle them getting their own way is a "stitch up". A remoaner complaining about others complaining about a stitch up the bitches who have been crying because they lost for three years you really could not make it up what a fcuking hypocrite !!!!!!!!!!
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 29, 2019 11:18:16 GMT
Just to be clear - I don't already know that BRINO is being implemented. In fact I think BRINO is a made up invention so people who aren't getting their own way (i.e. no deal) can continue to be feel betrayed by the system and can try and distort what Brexit means by declaring that 17.1 million people think exactly the same as they do. Of course, any attempts to give people a chance for a no deal i.e. a second referendum are also classed as a "stitich up". So pretty much anything that doesn't invovle them getting their own way is a "stitch up". A remoaner complaining about others complaining about a stitch up the bitches who have been crying because they lost for three years you really could not make it up what a fcuking hypocrite !!!!!!!!!! A Brexiteer complaining about other bitches crying, when they've spent the last three crying because they might get what they voted for. You really could not make it up. What a fcuking hypocrite !!!!!!!!!!
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Post by followyoudown on Apr 29, 2019 12:13:58 GMT
Something for the bus...... Could is doing alot of work there nevermind the fact she won't be in a position to implement anything as she will be gone pre-brexit nevermind post-brexit
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Post by followyoudown on Apr 29, 2019 12:20:12 GMT
Looking at the latest opinion polls The Brexit Party are ripping into the Torys vote share. Expect the Torys to harden their Brexit stance rather than soften it. And at some point Labour has to get off the fence and be seen as a remain or a leave party and it will then start to shed votes itself. One thing I saw on twitter I think it was, before the brexit party formed all you heard was the people had changed their minds as they show at 28% suddenly its back to Farage is a racist this, that blah de blah
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 29, 2019 18:15:37 GMT
just a thought about language/ propaganda... something I've always been very concerned about.... something that I think that those who think that they are on the left should also be concerned about. What has sparked my renewed concern...... Please note that we are now being asked to think about a " confirmatory vote"... This is not accidental and has been discussed as a coordinated strategy..." second Referendum" and " people's vote" did not work.
The constant equating of "Europe" with the "EU" is an attempt to conflate two entirely different concepts.... it is possible to love Europe and hate the EU.
The constant emphasis on a " deal" and trying to make it part and parcel of " Leaving the EU" is a deliberate attempt to thwart Brexit. The two are entirely separate . The EU museum in Brussels is absolutely incredible in retelling the " History of Europe ( which is equated with the EU)"...... unbelievable propaganda..... you would have thought that the EU had been the central factor in achieving peace since 1945..….. unbelievably the World wars are depicted as a"European civil war" rather than a fascist/ Nazi/ German attempt to dominate Europe, iirc. Unfortunately as we move further away from the harsh realities of what happened it is Perhaps easy for our young people to simply accept this interpretation. A number of years ago I came across an EU policy document that said that " we must now embark on a strategy to sell / promote the EU in every possible way to the peoples of Europe as a positive enterprise" In giving away our democracy and surrendering sovereignty, we have to be very careful. The powerless will suffer the most and the political class are not the powerless.
I'd add....to simply want independence and democracy is now " Far right" To question immigration and cultural clash is now racist. And you can't question the veracity of certain ideologies/ religion.
We are now no longer allowed to think differently.... someone else will tell you how to think.
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Post by hammered on Apr 29, 2019 21:01:38 GMT
Hear, Hear Big John!! Have you noticed how quiet it's all got? - not really a squeak from anyone since Mr Brexit took centre stage; (establishment shitting itself whilst it plots a new lie to cover up the last one). And then there's the court case which the MSM have ignored?? robintilbrook.blogspot.com/2019/03/english-democrats-bring-case-to-get.htmlGonna be an interesting summer!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 21:04:00 GMT
The Grauniad is tonight reporting "Brexit talks take positive turn towards possible compromise".
"Cross party talks have now moved on to the "nuts and bolts" of a possible compromise.
Talks will continue this week, including keys areas of previous disagreement that had previously been swerved, including a customs union, single market alignment, and "dynamic alignment" of workers rights and environmental protection.
Labour's Hayman (shadow environment secretary) said "there are positive signs the Govt is willing to move in our direction, and realises the urgency of the situation".
Hmm....shitting themselves to get a "BRINO deal" done ASAP to stop Farage pushing for proper Brexit.
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Post by henry on Apr 29, 2019 21:18:37 GMT
just a thought about language/ propaganda... something I've always been very concerned about.... something that I think that those who think that they are on the left should also be concerned about. What has sparked my renewed concern...... Please note that we are now being asked to think about a " confirmatory vote"... This is not accidental and has been discussed as a coordinated strategy..." second Referendum" and " people's vote" did not work. The constant equating of "Europe" with the "EU" is an attempt to conflate two entirely different concepts.... it is possible to love Europe and hate the EU. The constant emphasis on a " deal" and trying to make it part and parcel of " Leaving the EU" is a deliberate attempt to thwart Brexit. The two are entirely separate . The EU museum in Brussels is absolutely incredible in retelling the " History of Europe ( which is equated with the EU)"...... unbelievable propaganda..... you would have thought that the EU had been the central factor in achieving peace since 1945..….. unbelievably the World wars are depicted as a"European civil war" rather than a fascist/ Nazi/ German attempt to dominate Europe, iirc. Unfortunately as we move further away from the harsh realities of what happened it is Perhaps easy for our young people to simply accept this interpretation. A number of years ago I came across an EU policy document that said that " we must now embark on a strategy to sell / promote the EU in every possible way to the peoples of Europe as a positive enterprise" In giving away our democracy and surrendering sovereignty, we have to be very careful. The powerless will suffer the most and the political class are not the powerless. I'd add....to simply want independence and democracy is now " Far right" To question immigration and cultural clash is now racist. And you can't question the veracity of certain ideologies/ religion. We are now no longer allowed to think differently.... someone else will tell you how to think. Excellent post BJR
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