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Post by followyoudown on Mar 24, 2019 10:12:42 GMT
It's true that Barnier said that the money would be linked to a trade deal, but if we leave with no deal the £39 billion is still going to have to be paid because it's an estimated sum that the UK has committed to. We can't simply walk away from financial commitments. We would likely be sued and it wouldn't put us in a good light for any future relationships we have with either the EU or other countries. I don't know if the £39. Billion was to just cover our financial obligations such as pensions and long term projects , I think it also includes membership till we officially leave Yes that is correct and to answer dave's question on would we HAVE to pay it there is I believe advice from the house of lords that we would not be legally obliged to pay this although I accept we most likely would. All this talk of commitments and obligations does amuse me as an accountant though as the one thing you dont ever hear about is the assets, all those years of paying in and there are no assets (EU buildings etc) that we own a share of either, its almost like we are just been shaken down.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 24, 2019 10:15:39 GMT
4.85m signatures in 5 days being portrayed as impressive yet at the referendum remain got 17m odd in 1 day and still lost looks to me support for remain is fading away
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 24, 2019 10:24:21 GMT
Yes. But am I going to see an improvement in my financial situation when we leave the EU numpty.? Nobody seems able to answer this question. You're asking a question that no-one can possibly know the answer to. No-one could have answered it if we'd voted Remain either. Imagine if in 2007 you'd asked "Am I going to see improvement in my financial situation over the next few years thanks to being a member of the EU?" When you went back two years later & asked people how they got on, how many would be saying "Yes it improved?" Ask the thousands (millions) of people who've lost their jobs over the last deacade of being in the EU if their financial situation has improved. Or ask the millions stuck on zero hour contracts working in shit conditions (due to the EUs freedom of movement meaning there's a never ending supply of cheap wage slaves) if their financial situation has improved. And yet Freedom of Movement has barely had a mention in the media, recently. Corbyn has been scathing about the prospect of a No Deal, but I haven't heard a peep about the things you mentioned in this post. The same could be said for the rest of parliament, bar a few.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 24, 2019 10:36:34 GMT
You're asking a question that no-one can possibly know the answer to. No-one could have answered it if we'd voted Remain either. Imagine if in 2007 you'd asked "Am I going to see improvement in my financial situation over the next few years thanks to being a member of the EU?" When you went back two years later & asked people how they got on, how many would be saying "Yes it improved?" Ask the thousands (millions) of people who've lost their jobs over the last deacade of being in the EU if their financial situation has improved. Or ask the millions stuck on zero hour contracts working in shit conditions (due to the EUs freedom of movement meaning there's a never ending supply of cheap wage slaves) if their financial situation has improved. Cheap wage slaves haven't hit these remainers yet obviously Them and theirs are still afloat for now Might be different when millions of Turks come flooding across Europe.
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Post by xchpotter on Mar 24, 2019 10:44:26 GMT
Cheap wage slaves haven't hit these remainers yet obviously Them and theirs are still afloat for now Might be different when millions of Turks come flooding across Europe. Would it make any more difference....the country is fucked as it is.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 24, 2019 10:45:41 GMT
I don't think the cowardly shysters in Parliament have got the balls to openly vote to revoke A50 as they're already thinking of the next general election and keeping their snouts in the trough. They don't mind collectively dismissing 17.4 million voters but individually they are in self preservation mode. They will probably vote for a longer extension to try to arrive at a consensus that will be acceptable in Parliament with the ultimate aim to then organise a second referendum to "allow the people to decide", or in other words to remove any blame from themselves for not delivering Brexit. As for the question, well it's Remain versus...., well does it really matter as we all know that Remain will no doubt win next time. Stitch up complete ! How about a leaver taking over May (I'm thinking Gove here) and revoking article 50 and pressing the pause button with the proviso that it will be triggered as soon as a (probably cross party plan) is agreed? He's definitely a big enough snake to take on the responsibility of doing it, isn't a massively hard brexiteer could blame May for how badly it's been handled and is definitely nowhere near as toxic as someone like Boris or JRM. No GE till 2022 so definitely time to do it. Keeping May only increasing the chance of a GE and a loss for the Tories. I think the Tories are finished if they go for a Norway type deal. It doesn't address Freedom Of Movement and more in their party will be in uproar about this than in the Labour Party, even though millions of people in Labour constituencies voted for Brexit partly because of FOM.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 24, 2019 10:50:03 GMT
Ha ha, is this march "populist"? Fucking hypocritical bastards. In days gone by, people used to protest in the name of causes. A unique phenomenom that snowflake millennials have given us is protesting the outcome of a democratic vote. What the actual fuck? Yeah, fuck piffling matters like Vietnam, what about data roaming? 😜
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2019 11:12:42 GMT
4.85m signatures in 5 days being portrayed as impressive yet at the referendum remain got 17m odd in 1 day and still lost looks to me support for remain is fading away But they'll still bloody win ! Obviously democratic decisions in the U.K. no longer count for anything thanks to the House of Conmen and the cry babies. The only country where 17.4 million v 4.85 million (or 16.1 million-ish at the referendum) results in a defeat for the larger number. Democracy....hmmmm, don't think so !
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Post by GrahamHyde on Mar 24, 2019 11:27:27 GMT
4.85m signatures in 5 days being portrayed as impressive yet at the referendum remain got 17m odd in 1 day and still lost looks to me support for remain is fading away But they'll still bloody win ! Obviously democratic decisions in the U.K. no longer count for anything thanks to the House of Conmen and the cry babies. The only country where 17.4 million v 4.85 million (or 16.1 million-ish at the referendum) results in a defeat for the larger number. Democracy....hmmmm, don't think so ! How will they win?
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Post by lordb on Mar 24, 2019 11:36:50 GMT
Cheap wage slaves haven't hit these remainers yet obviously Them and theirs are still afloat for now Might be different when millions of Turks come flooding across Europe. STILL pushing this line! Amazing. Turkey has no chance of joining the EU, none.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 24, 2019 11:59:16 GMT
Might be different when millions of Turks come flooding across Europe. STILL pushing this line! Amazing. Turkey has no chance of joining the EU, none. How many Eastern Europeans were expected to come to Britain?
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Post by dexta on Mar 24, 2019 12:21:05 GMT
Sick of all these old bastard Brexit voters ruining the future for the young... These Remainers don’t seem very ethnically diverse. Are we sure they aren’t reallly Brexiteers who after all are racist?🤔 look like a bunch of middle class do goders
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Post by GrahamHyde on Mar 24, 2019 12:30:37 GMT
These Remainers don’t seem very ethnically diverse. Are we sure they aren’t reallly Brexiteers who after all are racist?🤔 look like a bunch of middle class do goders What's wrong with doing good?
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Post by Gods on Mar 24, 2019 12:41:00 GMT
Going back to the OP, my guess now is; No concensus until April 12 so ask and agree a lengthy extension with a view to a new Referendum. The Referendum quesition: a choice between a new deal organised by the interim leader of the Tories ( Norway minus =Remain) or Remain ie no BREXIT option. Or in the interim there could be a general election, with the new government ending up in the same place.......unless headway is made by Brexit parties and reselected Tory MPs. The irony being that in any EU elections we become more Eurosceptic as does the rest of Europe.....so a greater divide between our political masters and the people. This could go on for years. The problem with the cliff-edger or WTO Brexit or whatever you want to call it which I think you favour, even if you don't care about the economy and how pensions and benefits and the NHS will be funded, is two fold. It does nothing for the 48% of people who voted remain, who lets not delude ourselves, pay a fuck sight more tax in total than the leavers. Perhaps you don't care about the people who voted remain anyway, but even if you don't the second problem is a large number of your leavers never voted to leave with no deal with our major trading partner the EU.
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Post by thevoid on Mar 24, 2019 12:41:20 GMT
These Remainers don’t seem very ethnically diverse. Are we sure they aren’t reallly Brexiteers who after all are racist?🤔 look like a bunch of middle class do goders Gammon Central
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Post by thevoid on Mar 24, 2019 12:44:21 GMT
A small price to pay for independence. There we have it. Yes we do.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2019 12:44:32 GMT
Extract from an article on AOL - can't do the link at the moment.
--------------------------------------- Philip Hammond Says A Second Brexit Referendum Is A 'Coherent' Idea The chancellor suggested he was open to the proposition of a second Brexit referendum as he warned “self indulgent” cabinet colleagues plotting to oust Theresa May that changing leader would not solve the impasse gripping Britain.
Philip Hammond acknowledged that Tories are “very frustrated” but stressed the Commons must find a majority for a Brexit option that avoids no deal, acknowledging a second referendum on the prime minister’s deal was a “perfectly coherent proposition”.
He said parliament will “one way or another” have an opportunity to back alternatives to May’s beleaguered deal in indicative votes in the coming days, and that a plan for the withdrawal agreement to be put to a public vote “deserves to be considered”.
But he acknowledged on Ridge on Sunday on Sky News: “I will be absolutely up front - people are very frustrated and people are desperate to find a way forward in the two weeks we’ve got to resolve this issue.”
Hammond however warned that changing leader would make no difference. He added: “This is not about the prime minister or any other individual, this is about the future of our country. “And changing prime minister wouldn’t help us, changing party in government wouldn’t help us. “We have got to address the question of what type of Brexit is acceptable to parliament.” He told MPs to either accept May’s deal or form a majority for an alternative option. “But it has to be a variant that’s deliverable, not some unicorn,” he said.
Hammond said leaving with no deal and revoking Article 50 to stop Brexit should be ruled out of indicative votes as they would both have “very serious negative consequences” for the UK. But after hundreds of thousands of people joined a Saturday march on parliament demanding a final say for the public over Brexit, Hammond indicated he was open to a backbench plan to back May’s deal in return for a referendum pitting it against remaining in the EU. ----------------------------------------------------
Yet another who is looking (hoping) for the easy way to overturn Brexit by letting the public do the M.P.'s dirty work for them.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Mar 24, 2019 12:58:48 GMT
It does nothing for the 48% of people who voted remain, who lets not delude ourselves, pay a fuck sight more tax in total than the leavers. We've had three years being told that the rich/wealthy voted for Leave, now you're changing it & telling us they voted Remain instead? Should we run this country on how wealthy you are? Poor people have to give up their seats for rich people? Give up their drinking water? The air they breath? And what would remaining have done for the 52% who voted leave? How many fucks would you have given about us?
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 24, 2019 12:59:33 GMT
Going back to the OP, my guess now is; No concensus until April 12 so ask and agree a lengthy extension with a view to a new Referendum. The Referendum quesition: a choice between a new deal organised by the interim leader of the Tories ( Norway minus =Remain) or Remain ie no BREXIT option. Or in the interim there could be a general election, with the new government ending up in the same place.......unless headway is made by Brexit parties and reselected Tory MPs. The irony being that in any EU elections we become more Eurosceptic as does the rest of Europe.....so a greater divide between our political masters and the people. This could go on for years. The problem with the cliff-edger or WTO Brexit or whatever you want to call it which I think you favour, even if you don't care about the economy and how pensions and benefits and the NHS will be funded, is two fold. It does nothing for the 48% of people who voted remain, who lets not delude ourselves, pay a fuck sight more tax in total than the leavers.
Perhaps you don't care about the people who voted remain anyway, but even if you don't the second problem is a large number of your leavers never voted to leave with no deal with our major trading partner the EU. Interesting. Is that lifetime tax or since June 2016. Can you post a link to the analysis please?
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Post by Absolution on Mar 24, 2019 13:02:58 GMT
It does nothing for the 48% of people who voted remain, who lets not delude ourselves, pay a fuck sight more tax in total than the leavers. We've had three years being told that the rich/wealthy voted for Leave, now you're changing it & telling us they voted Remain instead? Should we run this country on how wealthy you are? Poor people have to give up their seats for rich people? Give up their drinking water? The air they breath? And what would remaining have done for the 52% who voted leave? How many fucks would you have given about us? Brilliant post mate. Added to the way that remainers have tried to marginalise and turn the elderly of this country into an irrelevance. Fucking despicable.
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Post by Gods on Mar 24, 2019 13:05:42 GMT
The problem with the cliff-edger or WTO Brexit or whatever you want to call it which I think you favour, even if you don't care about the economy and how pensions and benefits and the NHS will be funded, is two fold. It does nothing for the 48% of people who voted remain, who lets not delude ourselves, pay a fuck sight more tax in total than the leavers.
Perhaps you don't care about the people who voted remain anyway, but even if you don't the second problem is a large number of your leavers never voted to leave with no deal with our major trading partner the EU. Interesting. Is that lifetime tax or since June 2016. Can you post a link to the analysis please? You don't need a survey, the clue is in the demographics.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 24, 2019 13:11:11 GMT
Interesting. Is that lifetime tax or since June 2016. Can you post a link to the analysis please? You don't need a survey, the clue is in the demographics. Ah, unsubstantiated opinion again. Carry on.
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Post by ravey123 on Mar 24, 2019 13:15:18 GMT
Interesting. Is that lifetime tax or since June 2016. Can you post a link to the analysis please? You don't need a survey, the clue is in the demographics. Bollocks - you're making it up as you go along
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 24, 2019 13:21:06 GMT
You don't need a survey, the clue is in the demographics. Bollocks - you're making it up as you go along Well, I asked for the analysis because it would be interesting to know if the "demographics": Leave = Middle age/older middle class earners with 40 years of tax history < Remain = Millennial's approaching their max earning potential. Turns out to have no basis in fact.
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Post by starkiller on Mar 24, 2019 13:25:55 GMT
We've had three years being told that the rich/wealthy voted for Leave, now you're changing it & telling us they voted Remain instead? Should we run this country on how wealthy you are? Poor people have to give up their seats for rich people? Give up their drinking water? The air they breath? And what would remaining have done for the 52% who voted leave? How many fucks would you have given about us? Brilliant post mate. Added to the way that remainers have tried to marginalise and turn the elderly of this country into an irrelevance. Fucking despicable. Even though there is no real data on age - except for the same dodgy pollsters who tried to manipulate the public before the vote. There seemed to be an awful lot of 'non-young' people on that London dog-walk and picnic yesterday. A extended period was given for young people to register before the vote and vote they did. But still lost. But they have used this idea to manipulate the public since the vote. The tricks have carried on incessantly.
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Post by Gods on Mar 24, 2019 13:27:33 GMT
Bollocks - you're making it up as you go along Well, I asked for the analysis because it would be interesting to know if the "demographics": Leave = Middle age/older middle class earners with 40 years of tax history < Remain = Millennial's approaching their max earning potential. Turns out to have no basis in fact. Its an interesting point, life time tax paid and I'd concede it to you, taxes paid today and I fancy I'd be right ! Either way it wasn't the thrust of my post.
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Post by thevoid on Mar 24, 2019 13:29:40 GMT
Interesting. Is that lifetime tax or since June 2016. Can you post a link to the analysis please? You don't need a survey, the clue is in the demographics. If you're going to make bold statements like that, I'd like some evidence please. Anyway, I thought elections/referenda were determined by - shock horror - ACTUAL VOTES, rather than tax contributions?
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 24, 2019 13:38:33 GMT
Might be different when millions of Turks come flooding across Europe. STILL pushing this line! Amazing. Turkey has no chance of joining the EU, none. Like there was no chance of an EU army you mean? Turkey is getting funded by the EU now.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 24, 2019 13:52:59 GMT
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 24, 2019 13:58:11 GMT
But they are not looking to integrate them into the EU at all , and some think the Romanians are bad news wait until these are flooding the continent with their own brand of cultural enrichment.
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