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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 25, 2019 16:40:27 GMT
A delay is different to overturning the result - in the same way a delayed kick off is different to a game being canceled. Although amongst the knicker-wetting and false equivalence from UKIP politicians, it should still be remembered that having to delay the date of departure would still be a massive failure of governance. First and foremost from the government, who have wasted a fuckload of time both before and after the WA was agreed on with the EU. But also a failure of parliament, who have failed to meaningfully back any of the many Brexit plans that were put before them. What an absolute shower of incompetence. Brexit was a vote to leave, not to get a deal. There's absolutely no reason at all to delay anything (Unless, of course, you're trying anything you can to stop Brexit from happening.) Brexit was always going to involve a lot of negotiating. It's only after the vote did people start telling us that everyone voted for leaving the EU 20 seconds after the results were announced with not a single discussion being had. As I said a few weeks ago, this government is clearly quite happy to run the clock down in the aim of either a) pressuring Parliament into voting for her WA or b) leaving with no deal and blaming it on these nasty people from Brussels. I think b) is looking quite likely at the moment. The establishment always gets what it wants, and it's pretty keen on a no deal Brexit right now.
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Post by xchpotter on Feb 25, 2019 16:45:27 GMT
If I thought a delay was to enable a smoother and better deal then fair enough. However, it’s pretty obvious that the aim is to allow Remainers more time to explore yet more options to stop it and get some further action to prevent it going ahead....that’s what the delay is for and no other reason. We should exit, with or without a deal as per the scheduled date and not allow this assault on what was a democratically delivered exercise in allowing the UK the once in a lifetime choice it had to be in or out of the EU. There will be hell on the streets if and when the delay or cessation of Brexit occurs and all brought on by those who oppose the democratic will of the people.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 25, 2019 17:08:21 GMT
Brexit was always going to involve a lot of negotiating. It's only after the vote did people start telling us that everyone voted for leaving the EU 20 seconds after the results were announced with not a single discussion being had. As I said a few weeks ago, this government is clearly quite happy to run the clock down in the aim of either a) pressuring Parliament into voting for her WA or b) leaving with no deal and blaming it on these nasty people from Brussels. I think b) is looking quite likely at the moment. The establishment always gets what it wants, and it's pretty keen on a no deal Brexit right now. It's been nearly 3 years since the vote. If we'd spent that time actually negotiating rather than trying to overturn the result then we might have got somewhere. As it is our time is nearly up & we should be leaving, we can then carry on negotiating after we've left. (It might even help to focus some minds once the EU & Remoaners realise it's real & we have left. It'll be amazing to see how quickly things get hammered out then.)
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 25, 2019 17:23:49 GMT
I agree with these two; It's now a question of democracy. A delay is different to overturning the result - in the same way a delayed kick off is different to a game being canceled. Although amongst the knicker-wetting and false equivalence from UKIP politicians, it should still be remembered that having to delay the date of departure would still be a massive failure of governance. First and foremost from the government, who have wasted a fuckload of time both before and after the WA was agreed on with the EU. But also a failure of parliament, who have failed to meaningfully back any of the many Brexit plans that were put before them. What an absolute shower of incompetence. It is incompetence Rip I agree...or deliberate. Some would say that if you are politically aware a delay in this case is a deliberate ploy to thwart Brexit.... but of course if you think it is the equivalent of delaying a kick off, that's your prerogative
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 25, 2019 17:50:57 GMT
The Guardian is reporting Corbyn saying Labour will back an amendment calling for a second referendum.
Wow!
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 25, 2019 18:05:23 GMT
The Guardian is reporting Corbyn saying Labour will back an amendment calling for a second referendum. Wow! Or as someone else put it he will back a vote for a theoretical second referendum once he knows it is too late to actually hold the vote. This is the moment he just fell off the fence and managed to piss both sides off once they see the detail.
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Post by felonious on Feb 25, 2019 18:06:45 GMT
The Guardian is reporting Corbyn saying Labour will back an amendment calling for a second referendum. Wow! The man is absolutely shameless.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 25, 2019 18:15:45 GMT
The Guardian is reporting Corbyn saying Labour will back an amendment calling for a second referendum. Wow! The man is absolutely shameless. Clueless I think you meant
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 25, 2019 18:20:30 GMT
The Guardian is reporting Corbyn saying Labour will back an amendment calling for a second referendum. Wow! Politburo have had Lenin by the bollocks then.
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Post by felonious on Feb 25, 2019 18:21:22 GMT
The man is absolutely shameless. Clueless I think you meant Is it an aspiration?
....... or is he trying to bury the news of the opening of the Birmingham pub bombing inquest for his mate Jerry?
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Post by thevoid on Feb 25, 2019 18:52:35 GMT
Our civil servants like all public sector staff are paid for from money raised by the UK Government through taxes, where do the EU generate their income from? Their budget. Where do you think? There are 751 elected MEPs, 28 elected heads of state and 28 unelected commissioners involved in EU law making. 28/751 are unelected, 3.7%. But that is apparently undemocratic according to leave voters! Here we have 650 elected mps, 1 unelected queen and 800 unelected peers. 801/1451 are unelected or over 55%. Which is more democratic??? But those heads of state weren't elected by the British people were they? The Queen is a figurehead, nothing more- she's not involved in any form of political decision making.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 25, 2019 18:54:11 GMT
Clueless I think you meant Is it an aspiration?
....... or is he trying to bury the news of the opening of the Birmingham pub bombing inquest for his mate Jerry?
Or his mates in Hizbollah being proscribed today.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 25, 2019 19:53:31 GMT
At least Hoey stands by her principles. In my opinion you can somehow tell if someone genuinely believes things for the right reason....I don't think Hoey had a hidden agenda nor does she believe and do things for personal gain. She is where the Labour party should be, and where Jezza would be if he wasn't leader.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 25, 2019 19:53:48 GMT
9000 pottery jobs under threat
300 going at Trentham lakes finance.
Negative interest rates in the pipeline.
All in our local paper tonight.
Going well isn't it.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 25, 2019 20:10:03 GMT
I never thought I would see the day when the Tories represented the wishes of the working class more than the Labour Party.
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Post by thevoid on Feb 25, 2019 20:25:39 GMT
9000 pottery jobs under threat 300 going at Trentham lakes finance. Negative interest rates in the pipeline. All in our local paper tonight. Going well isn't it. Ryan Shawcross' form started dipping just after the referendum too. True story.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 25, 2019 20:29:00 GMT
9000 pottery jobs under threat 300 going at Trentham lakes finance. Negative interest rates in the pipeline. All in our local paper tonight. Going well isn't it. Ryan Shawcross' form started dipping just after the referendum too. True story. Yes. He voted remain and couldn't believe what was happening to the country. Badly affected his form.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 25, 2019 20:39:15 GMT
I never thought I would see the day when the Tories represented the wishes of the working class more than the Labour Party. That's what mixing referendum and politics does tricky.. As I pointed out many moons ago. It's a clusterfuck of magnificent proportions that will reverberate in our politics and society for years to come. And the only people who will suffer is us poor fookers who pay our tax and work hard and look after our families.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 25, 2019 20:45:01 GMT
Ryan Shawcross' form started dipping just after the referendum too. True story. Yes. He voted remain and couldn't believe what was happening to the country. Badly affected his form. And yet Arnie went leave and never looked back.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 25, 2019 20:54:53 GMT
Yes. He voted remain and couldn't believe what was happening to the country. Badly affected his form. And yet Arnie went leave and never looked back. True.😀 Being Austrian he had every right 😊
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 25, 2019 20:58:27 GMT
I never thought I would see the day when the Tories represented the wishes of the working class more than the Labour Party. That's what mixing referendum and politics does tricky.. As I pointed out many moons ago. It's a clusterfuck of magnificent proportions that will reverberate in our politics and society for years to come. And the only people who will suffer is us poor fookers who pay our tax and work hard and look after our families. So how does having another fooker solve the problem?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 25, 2019 20:58:58 GMT
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 25, 2019 21:03:12 GMT
That's what mixing referendum and politics does tricky.. As I pointed out many moons ago. It's a clusterfuck of magnificent proportions that will reverberate in our politics and society for years to come. And the only people who will suffer is us poor fookers who pay our tax and work hard and look after our families. So how does having another fooker solve the problem? I'm not for another referendum.. If that's what you mean. The people have voted.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 25, 2019 21:41:25 GMT
A delay is different to overturning the result - in the same way a delayed kick off is different to a game being canceled. Although amongst the knicker-wetting and false equivalence from UKIP politicians, it should still be remembered that having to delay the date of departure would still be a massive failure of governance. First and foremost from the government, who have wasted a fuckload of time both before and after the WA was agreed on with the EU. But also a failure of parliament, who have failed to meaningfully back any of the many Brexit plans that were put before them. What an absolute shower of incompetence. It is incompetence Rip I agree...or deliberate. Some would say that if you are politically aware a delay in this case is a deliberate ploy to thwart Brexit.... but of course if you think it is the equivalent of delaying a kick off, that's your prerogative The delay is a political ploy to get us drifting towards a scenario where we leave with no deal. That's been going on for about a year now. The previous two years appeared to be the Cabinet sitting around discussing stuff with each other instead of negotiating with the other side.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 25, 2019 21:44:42 GMT
Brexit was always going to involve a lot of negotiating. It's only after the vote did people start telling us that everyone voted for leaving the EU 20 seconds after the results were announced with not a single discussion being had. As I said a few weeks ago, this government is clearly quite happy to run the clock down in the aim of either a) pressuring Parliament into voting for her WA or b) leaving with no deal and blaming it on these nasty people from Brussels. I think b) is looking quite likely at the moment. The establishment always gets what it wants, and it's pretty keen on a no deal Brexit right now. It's been nearly 3 years since the vote. If we'd spent that time actually negotiating rather than trying to overturn the result then we might have got somewhere. As it is our time is nearly up & we should be leaving, we can then carry on negotiating after we've left. (It might even help to focus some minds once the EU & Remoaners realise it's real & we have left. It'll be amazing to see how quickly things get hammered out then.) What actions to overturn the results have taken away from the negotiating efforts, in your opinion?
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Post by salopstick on Feb 25, 2019 21:48:11 GMT
Brexit was always going to involve a lot of negotiating. It's only after the vote did people start telling us that everyone voted for leaving the EU 20 seconds after the results were announced with not a single discussion being had. As I said a few weeks ago, this government is clearly quite happy to run the clock down in the aim of either a) pressuring Parliament into voting for her WA or b) leaving with no deal and blaming it on these nasty people from Brussels. I think b) is looking quite likely at the moment. The establishment always gets what it wants, and it's pretty keen on a no deal Brexit right now. It's been nearly 3 years since the vote. If we'd spent that time actually negotiating rather than trying to overturn the result then we might have got somewhere. As it is our time is nearly up & we should be leaving, we can then carry on negotiating after we've left. (It might even help to focus some minds once the EU & Remoaners realise it's real & we have left. It'll be amazing to see how quickly things get hammered out then.) They could have agreed on a shit load of reciprocity over a brew We will let Eu citizens keep their rights If you do the same for expat Brit’s Data sharing for police Extradition There are just three off the top of my head. It’s a mix of govt incompetence, Eu dragging over negotiating and half of parliament concentrating on trying to remain Cunts all of em
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Post by salopstick on Feb 25, 2019 21:53:04 GMT
And Corbyn seems to be doing what ever it takes to turn voters against him
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 25, 2019 21:56:35 GMT
It is incompetence Rip I agree...or deliberate. Some would say that if you are politically aware a delay in this case is a deliberate ploy to thwart Brexit.... but of course if you think it is the equivalent of delaying a kick off, that's your prerogative The delay is a political ploy to get us drifting towards a scenario where we leave with no deal. That's been going on for about a year now. The previous two years appeared to be the Cabinet sitting around discussing stuff with each other instead of negotiating with the other side. The delay is to get the MayDeal .. It will be postponed for three months.. Everyone (EU and UK) will shit themselves (quite rightly) of the prospect of a no-deal and the MayDeal will go through with a few minor window dressing alterations. Two years then of pontificating and posturing and politics. That will be five years of billions of pounds washed down the pipe. Amazing.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Feb 25, 2019 21:59:42 GMT
So if there is a 2 -month delay should UK manufacturers also put back the 2-4 week shutdown many have planned for March/ April, or just have a second annual maintenance shutdown a couple of months after the first?
Regardless of whether Brexit itself makes it more or less viable to produce stuff in the UK ,the complete shambles of the leaving process must be enough to make any company seeking stability view the UK a basket case where the voters, MP's , governing party and even the Cabinet cannot agree on anything.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 25, 2019 22:36:29 GMT
I don't see what a 2-3 month delay will achieve.
Why does anyone think the backstop issue will be resolved over that period when it hasn't been resolved over the past year or so.
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