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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 15, 2019 12:51:30 GMT
with ford rumoured to be quitting the uk we now have more bad news that total are moving 200 jobs to Geneva. this is not project fear it is plain facts.we haven't even left yet. turkeys voted for xmas I voted Brexit to save british fishermans jobs-the seas around the uk had been fished to death by.... british trawlers!!its only when the eu stepped in and put qoutas in place that has allowed some stocks to recover but unfortunately they have a long way to go before stocks are at the level they should be. I voted Brexit so we make our own laws- we have allways been able to make our own laws hence the 5p price on a plastic bag which is complete and utter bullshit. I could go on Ford are talking about quitting the uk than they can piss off then absolutely sod all to do with brexit It’s called globalisation companies will spout any shit blame it on anything that deflects the blame When it’s down to nothing other than corporate greed British fishermen are only allowed to catch 40% of the quotas in British waters sod all to do with stocks fact The United Kingdom is not free to set all its laws or taxation and will not be whilst the euopean ccourt of justice holds sway
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Post by salopstick on Feb 15, 2019 13:07:00 GMT
He hasn't answered yet. I'm for remaining and reforming, how about you?Are you able to give us an idea of what reforms you would like to see? Common Agricultural & Fisheries policies? Restrictions on Free Movement to help protect workers pay levels and standards of living? Changes relating to the drift towards a ‘superstate’ possibly to be known as the United States of Europe? The planning for and setting up of a European army? Or other things? It would be interesting to know what indications you’ve seen that the EU is actually willing to discuss or actually make your reforms as well. Another side issue, perhaps one for Oggy but I'd welcome your view Huddy, is that there seem to be different types of ‘Remain’. Oggy says “The difference between leave and remain is that remain voted for what we already have” on the first post on this page. That, presumably, means no reforms, no changes, leave everything as it is. You, on the other hand, are suggesting that Remain, with some reforms is your preferred option.
I suspect that might be a preferred option for many ‘Leave’ voters too (me included), but we might all require different reforms so if there is a second referendum in the end, how many different types of ‘Remain’ should be on the Ballot paper?
Indeed, how many different types of Remain actually are there as Huddy's 'Remain' is clearly different to Oggy's 'Remain', and other Remainers might promote more or different reforms. It's a minefield isn't it!
He forgets the EU refuses to reform. So he’s wishing on a dream
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Post by salopstick on Feb 15, 2019 13:09:47 GMT
“the 5p price on a plastic bag which is complete and utter bullshit” Why? The plastic bag charge is the result of an EU directive. Ban bags or put measures in place to reduce their use Incidentally wales put there’s in separate in 2011
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Post by salopstick on Feb 15, 2019 13:14:15 GMT
I still say that there would be a different tune on here if Corbyn had stuck with his long held beliefs on the EU, and backed Brexit. It would be reported differently, too. It would be painted as Corbyn using independance to enact social change, even though the EU has supposedly already done this. Instead, it's painted as some sort of evil Tory plot to further subjugate the masses. If that were the case, why are there Labour MPs who support Brexit? I think Brexit is a class issue, as much as anything. The poorest paid voted for Brexit more than the better off. Indeed, you could argue that there is an "I'm alright, Jack" aspect to this. I am at the bottom of the barrel, live in social housing and do mostly low paid work. The people who I work or worked with all voted for Brexit. Who are MPs who don't have to struggle for adequate housing, jobs etc to tell us we have got it wrong? The same politicians are completely ignoring genuine concerns about immigration (again), largely because they have all been guilty of letting so many people in, before actually preparing for the influx. They have ruined people's lives, but there is hardly ever a programme highlighting this on the TV. The concern is always with the EU citizens, not with the British ones. An MP was on TV recently, bemoaning Brexit. She then pointed out that she had 22,000 EU citizens in her constituency! Maybe this is why they get preferential treatment? I think the "I'm alright, Jack" attitude is prevalent in the general population, too. I have friends who voted Remain, who are in better paid council jobs, and don't have to compete with 100 Polish people (for example) for a job. So they are essentially saying "Fuck you" to the likes of me. I guarantee if they had my experiences, they would have voted Brexit. What if we Remain? What happens to the divide that has been created? What happens to the resentment that people rightly feel? Most MPs from all parties just don't get it. There is no representation for the poorest of the working class in this country. Corbyn could represent them, but is shackled. Labour's stance on the customs union and single market makes ending free movement impossible ; something they promised in their manifesto. I am not buying this concern for manufacturing jobs, either. Where was the concern when small textile businesses were closing down because firms in Poland were undercutting them? Corbyn has even highlighted EU workers undercutting British ones in this country, but this gets forgotten now, with his change of heart on the EU. The political class has shafted the working class, and the ongoing charade in the House of Commons isn't fooling me. They will engineer an outcome that keeps us just about where we are. And where they want us. great post Huddy and his ilk continually slate people especially from working class backgrounds for voting Tory. It’s a purely anti Tory agenda to continue to slate leave and Brexit. If only labour and Corbyn had stayed true to their beliefs
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 15, 2019 13:33:18 GMT
When we’re floundering in a post Brexit dystopia, can we suspend article2, so we can string all the &@$t@&€$ up that sent us down this route!?!
Wouldn’t that be a pleasant irony.
Death to traitors...
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 15, 2019 14:36:44 GMT
Do you have a relative who works in financial services in new york ? If you dont understand the difference between a withdrawal agreement and a trade deal which determines the future relationship, you simply do not understand the leaving process. Legal advice is that the backstop is illegal, under A50 it should not form part of the WA but be part of future relationship negotiations. The only reason it has been given such prominence is to frustrate the process in the hope of reversing the vote to leave. Now the penny has dropped this will not happen Ireland is being told there will either be a border on the island or one with the EU in holland or france. None of my relatives work in financial services. Both sides, us and the EU, agreed that there will be no hard border in Ireland, which the backstop prevents. May, Davis, Johnson et al agreed that ages ago with the EU. The backstop comes into play only in the event of no trade deal being reached and so it is entirely separate to a future trade agreement. Do you follow? That’s why it is a backstop. If we had a future trade agreement with the EU, the backstop would not be needed. Don’t you see, May has painted herself into a corner by committing to no hard border in Ireland. It means we have to have a trade deal with some form of customs union, and there has to be a backstop preventing the hard border if that trade deal is not ready. The first question was a joke the person it was aimed at got it so dont worry. I am fully aware what the backstop is I have mentioned it several times, however when the backstop prevents the WA being agreed making no deal more likely and therefore no backstop it is clearly counterproductive. And the hard border is a problem for Leo and the EU, the UK have said they wont put one up and there is no one who can force them too. Ireland has a problem if there is no deal they will have to have a border with the EU either on the island or with Holland or France. It is an entirely confected argument that will come back to bite the irish and the EU.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 15, 2019 16:33:10 GMT
with ford rumoured to be quitting the uk we now have more bad news that total are moving 200 jobs to Geneva. this is not project fear it is plain facts.we haven't even left yet. turkeys voted for xmas I voted Brexit to save british fishermans jobs-the seas around the uk had been fished to death by.... british trawlers!!its only when the eu stepped in and put qoutas in place that has allowed some stocks to recover but unfortunately they have a long way to go before stocks are at the level they should be. I voted Brexit so we make our own laws- we have allways been able to make our own laws hence the 5p price on a plastic bag which is complete and utter bullshit. I could go on Ford are talking about quitting the uk than they can piss off then absolutely sod all to do with brexit It’s called globalisation companies will spout any shit blame it on anything that deflects the blame When it’s down to nothing other than corporate greed British fishermen are only allowed to catch 40% of the quotas in British waters sod all to do with stocks fact The United Kingdom is not free to set all its laws or taxation and will not be whilst the euopean ccourt of justice holds sway Ford stopped producing cars in the UK in......... 2002. Fucking Brexit!
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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 15, 2019 16:44:11 GMT
Ford are talking about quitting the uk than they can piss off then absolutely sod all to do with brexit It’s called globalisation companies will spout any shit blame it on anything that deflects the blame When it’s down to nothing other than corporate greed British fishermen are only allowed to catch 40% of the quotas in British waters sod all to do with stocks fact The United Kingdom is not free to set all its laws or taxation and will not be whilst the euopean ccourt of justice holds sway Ford stopped producing cars in the UK in......... 2002. Fucking Brexit! You do realise you’re ruining people’s agendas by spouting facts
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 15, 2019 17:04:52 GMT
When we’re floundering in a post Brexit dystopia, can we suspend article2, so we can string all the &@$t@&€$ up that sent us down this route!?! Wouldn’t that be a pleasant irony. Death to traitors... Talking of Death to traitors
"schoolgirl who ran off to join isis want to return to the uk"
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 15, 2019 18:59:11 GMT
When we’re floundering in a post Brexit dystopia, can we suspend article2, so we can string all the &@$t@&€$ up that sent us down this route!?! Wouldn’t that be a pleasant irony. Death to traitors... Talking of Death to traitors
"schoolgirl who ran off to join isis want to return to the uk DESPITE BREXIT"
I fixed it for you
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Feb 15, 2019 21:04:58 GMT
Ford are talking about quitting the uk than they can piss off then absolutely sod all to do with brexit It’s called globalisation companies will spout any shit blame it on anything that deflects the blame When it’s down to nothing other than corporate greed British fishermen are only allowed to catch 40% of the quotas in British waters sod all to do with stocks fact The United Kingdom is not free to set all its laws or taxation and will not be whilst the euopean ccourt of justice holds sway Ford stopped producing cars in the UK in......... 2002. Fucking Brexit! 4000 making engines at Dagenham, 1500 at Bridgend, or don't they count ?
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 15, 2019 21:59:53 GMT
Ford stopped producing cars in the UK in......... 2002. Fucking Brexit! 4000 making engines at Dagenham, 1500 at Bridgend, or don't they count ?
Serves them right for voting for Brexit.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 15, 2019 22:07:46 GMT
None of my relatives work in financial services. Both sides, us and the EU, agreed that there will be no hard border in Ireland, which the backstop prevents. May, Davis, Johnson et al agreed that ages ago with the EU. The backstop comes into play only in the event of no trade deal being reached and so it is entirely separate to a future trade agreement. Do you follow? That’s why it is a backstop. If we had a future trade agreement with the EU, the backstop would not be needed. Don’t you see, May has painted herself into a corner by committing to no hard border in Ireland. It means we have to have a trade deal with some form of customs union, and there has to be a backstop preventing the hard border if that trade deal is not ready. The first question was a joke the person it was aimed at got it so dont worry. I am fully aware what the backstop is I have mentioned it several times, however when the backstop prevents the WA being agreed making no deal more likely and therefore no backstop it is clearly counterproductive. And the hard border is a problem for Leo and the EU, the UK have said they wont put one up and there is no one who can force them too. Ireland has a problem if there is no deal they will have to have a border with the EU either on the island or with Holland or France. It is an entirely confected argument that will come back to bite the irish and the EU. Why do you think the EU should undermine their whole project for us? They would prefer no deal as it is less bad for them. Therefore they won’t agree to there being no backstop, particularly as we already agreed it!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 15, 2019 22:44:00 GMT
Still waiting for any leaver to fully explain how we are all as a nation, going to be better off after leaving. It's been over 2 years now.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2019 22:52:03 GMT
Still waiting for any leaver to fully explain how we are all as a nation, going to be better off after leaving. It's been over 2 years now.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 15, 2019 22:56:52 GMT
Still waiting for any leaver to fully explain how we are all as a nation, going to be better off after leaving. It's been over 2 years now. Sorry no, you. Not Corbyn
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 15, 2019 23:01:08 GMT
Ford stopped producing cars in the UK in......... 2002. Fucking Brexit! 4000 making engines at Dagenham, 1500 at Bridgend, or don't they count ?
Different thing. I said car production. BTW, Ford finally abandoned all vehicle manufacture in 2013 - ending more than 100 years of vehicle production in the UK - when they moved Transit production to Turkey. Fucking, bastard Brexit again. Respect to Ford for being so prescient in foreseeing Brexit so many years in advance and planning accordingly. After all, Brexit is the only reason that exists for companies closing manufacturing operations in the UK.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2019 23:02:16 GMT
Sorry no, you. Not Corbyn I agree with him, don't you?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2019 23:08:58 GMT
The right winger, the Bolsover beast, explains the socialist position on the EU. Funnily enough, on this question, very close to Jacob Rees-Mogg. Two politicians who seem to believe in what they say.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 15, 2019 23:09:12 GMT
Still waiting for any leaver to fully explain how we are all as a nation, going to be better off after leaving. It's been over 2 years now. More important than JCs prattling, was the Road to Damascene conversion of the governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney, this week. Suddenly even the Guardian seems enthused about the possibilities... Ignore the free-trade evangelists. Brexit can create a fairer economy
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 15, 2019 23:42:53 GMT
Sorry no, you. Not Corbyn I agree with him, don't you? No. I want your words not his.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 15, 2019 23:44:15 GMT
Again, in your own words tell me how you think we as a nation will be better off.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 15, 2019 23:54:16 GMT
I agree with him, don't you? No. I want your words not his. I'll go with a 100% transcript of his words, he is much more politically aware than me. I can't improve on him and Benn. It's not rocket science
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 16, 2019 0:07:14 GMT
No. I want your words not his. I'll go with a 100% transcript of his words, he is much more politically aware than me. I can't improve on him and Benn. It's not rocket science So you can't tell me how better off we as a nation will be? Thanks.
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Post by Gods on Feb 16, 2019 0:10:48 GMT
Again, in your own words tell me how you think we as a nation will be better off. Well it won't. It's no great secret, Brexit has already wiped £40 billion off Britain’s annual economic growth since the referendum according to the Bank of England. And some macro problems simply transcend borders such as national security and climate change to name but two. It's fucking nuts, anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knows it is, but we're stuck with it.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 16, 2019 0:13:12 GMT
I'll go with a 100% transcript of his words, he is much more politically aware than me. I can't improve on him and Benn. It's not rocket science So you can't tell me how better off we as a nation will be? Thanks. I've been doing it for two or three years on here. It's simple really and very repetitive. I can't put it much better than the videos I've just posted as from Corbyn and Skinner. If you don't like their argument , which is exactly the same as mine, there's little point in asking the question. It's not a game.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 16, 2019 0:16:55 GMT
So you can't tell me how better off we as a nation will be? Thanks. I've been doing it for two or three years on here. It's simple really and very repetitive. I can't put it much better than the videos I've just posted as from Corbyn and Skinner. If you don't like their argument , which is exactly the same as mine, there's little point in asking the question. It's not a game. I was asking for your personal opinion, If you don't have one that's fine.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 16, 2019 0:22:44 GMT
I've been doing it for two or three years on here. It's simple really and very repetitive. I can't put it much better than the videos I've just posted as from Corbyn and Skinner. If you don't like their argument , which is exactly the same as mine, there's little point in asking the question. It's not a game. I was asking for your personal opinion, If you don't have one that's fine. My personal opinion is that I agree with Corbyn and Skinner 100% ion the videos that I've posted. Do you disagree with them
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 16, 2019 0:41:10 GMT
I was asking for your personal opinion, If you don't have one that's fine. My personal opinion is that I agree with Corbyn and Skinner 100% ion the videos that I've posted. Do you disagree with them It's OK you've explained yourself perfectly, thanks.
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Post by harryburrows on Feb 16, 2019 2:57:14 GMT
It's remarkable isn't it 🤔 The Dutch leader also seems to miss the point , when he talks about the UK being diminished and becoming insignificant on the world stage .
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