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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 14, 2019 22:06:31 GMT
To leave the Eu To leave the single market To leave the customs union To leave the European arest warrant To leave the European court of justice That will do for starters I’d leave it Waggsy the poor souls just don’t get it. They think that because the ballot paper didn’t list each and every one of the EU Internal and External Policies we can’t possibly know what we actually voted for. It’s like a stuck record. Can you confirm you'd be happy to just leave with no deal?
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Post by Davef on Feb 14, 2019 22:11:10 GMT
Brexit: Theresa May suffers fresh Commons defeat Theresa May has suffered a fresh defeat in a Commons vote on her approach to Brexit by 303 to 258 What the hell are they voting on?
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Post by essexstokey on Feb 14, 2019 22:17:50 GMT
Brexit: Theresa May suffers fresh Commons defeat Theresa May has suffered a fresh defeat in a Commons vote on her approach to Brexit by 303 to 258 What the hell are they voting on? MPs voted by 303 to 258 - a majority of 45 - against a motion endorsing the government's negotiating strategy.
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Post by Davef on Feb 14, 2019 22:19:33 GMT
What the hell are they voting on? MPs voted by 303 to 258 - a majority of 45 - against a motion endorsing the government's negotiating strategy.What negotiating strategy? Do these freaks really believe there is any negotiating going on?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 14, 2019 22:56:38 GMT
To leave the Eu To leave the single market To leave the customs union To leave the European arest warrant To leave the European court of justice That will do for starters I’d leave it Waggsy the poor souls just don’t get it. They think that because the ballot paper didn’t list each and every one of the EU Internal and External Policies we can’t possibly know what we actually voted for. It’s like a stuck record. As you won't respond have a read of this and let me know your thoughts. I'm keen to understand. threadreaderapp.com/thread/1073221524545363973.html
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 14, 2019 22:57:23 GMT
Please list exactly what you voted for. To leave the Eu To leave the single market To leave the customs union To leave the European arest warrant To leave the European court of justice That will do for starters Why?
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Post by upthefud on Feb 14, 2019 23:26:23 GMT
To leave the Eu To leave the single market To leave the customs union To leave the European arest warrant To leave the European court of justice That will do for starters Why? I think he’s answered your questions pretty well. Why do you want to stay in a failing European superstate with unelected burocrats?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Feb 14, 2019 23:32:47 GMT
I think he’s answered your questions pretty well. Why do you want to stay in a failing European superstate with unelected burocrats? He hasn't answered yet. I'm for remaining and reforming, how about you?
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Post by salopstick on Feb 14, 2019 23:38:12 GMT
I think he’s answered your questions pretty well. Why do you want to stay in a failing European superstate with unelected burocrats? He hasn't answered yet. I'm for remaining and reforming, how about you? This Union is not for reforming We’ve been there tried that. They would not budge If you you honestly believe they would choose to reform then you are very naive
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Post by essexstokey on Feb 14, 2019 23:39:57 GMT
I think he’s answered your questions pretty well. Why do you want to stay in a failing European superstate with unelected burocrats? yep we have our own un-elected burocats in the uk to take care of no use worrying about the elected ones in the EU!!
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Post by upthefud on Feb 15, 2019 0:38:51 GMT
I think he’s answered your questions pretty well. Why do you want to stay in a failing European superstate with unelected burocrats? He hasn't answered yet. I'm for remaining and reforming, how about you? We’ve been trying to reform it for 40 years mate. They won’t even budge on the backstop. They’re bullies and at some point you have to say enough is enough. I would be for staying and reforming, but there’s more chance of Hitler converting to Judaism than there is of the EU cleaning up it’s scy
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Post by upthefud on Feb 15, 2019 0:39:16 GMT
I think he’s answered your questions pretty well. Why do you want to stay in a failing European superstate with unelected burocrats? yep we have our own un-elected burocats in the uk to take care of no use worrying about the elected ones in the EU!! The House of Lords will be next
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Post by 3putts on Feb 15, 2019 0:58:38 GMT
I think he’s answered your questions pretty well. Why do you want to stay in a failing European superstate with unelected burocrats? Do you mean the House of Lords?
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Post by upthefud on Feb 15, 2019 2:29:32 GMT
I think he’s answered your questions pretty well. Why do you want to stay in a failing European superstate with unelected burocrats? Do you mean the House of Lords? If you’d have bothered to read the last post before you posted you’d have seen that I want them gone too. Edit: isn’t it funny how the House of Lords are determined to keep us in the EU. Can’t imagine why
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 15, 2019 7:47:34 GMT
He hasn't answered yet. I'm for remaining and reforming, how about you? We’ve been trying to reform it for 40 years mate. They won’t even budge on the backstop. They’re bullies and at some point you have to say enough is enough. I would be for staying and reforming, but there’s more chance of Hitler converting to Judaism than there is of the EU cleaning up it’s scy You don’t understand the backstop! May wanted it by committing to no possible hard border in Ireland! And it maintains EU integrity of their freedoms. You don’t have a clue what I’m talking about though.
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 15, 2019 8:10:30 GMT
We’ve been trying to reform it for 40 years mate. They won’t even budge on the backstop. They’re bullies and at some point you have to say enough is enough. I would be for staying and reforming, but there’s more chance of Hitler converting to Judaism than there is of the EU cleaning up it’s scy You don’t understand the backstop! May wanted it by commuting to no possivle hard border in Ireland! And it maintains EU integrity of their freedoms. You don’t have a clue what I’m talking about though. That's not true though is it the backstop is a solution to a problem the EU confected it should not be part of the withdrawal agreement as is it dependent on the future relationship which the EU wont talk about until the WA is agreed. The EU had no involvement in the good friday agreement and if they were so worried about it, adding extra wording to the GFA would have been the way to go but that doesnt give the EU the false pretence to keep the UK in a permanent customs union.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 15, 2019 8:18:17 GMT
You don’t understand the backstop! May wanted it by commuting to no possivle hard border in Ireland! And it maintains EU integrity of their freedoms. You don’t have a clue what I’m talking about though. That's not true though is it the backstop is a solution to a problem the EU confected it should not be part of the withdrawal agreement as is it dependent on the future relationship which the EU wont talk about until the WA is agreed. The EU had no involvement in the good friday agreement and if they were so worried about it, adding extra wording to the GFA would have been the way to go but that doesnt give the EU the false pretence to keep the UK in a permanent customs union. It maintains the EU’s freedoms. It is obvious they would do that above all. And May committed to it ages ago so it has been agreed for longer than almost any other aspect of Brexit. If you don’t understand what the freedoms of the EU are which are the central point of the entire union, then you simply do not understand the EU.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 15, 2019 8:27:45 GMT
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 15, 2019 8:38:56 GMT
The PM does not want no deal The Chancellor does not want no deal The majority of MP's do not want no deal The EU does not want no deal The Bank of England does not want no deal The Chamber of Commerce does not want no deal The CBI does not want no deal The automotive industry does not want no deal Pharmaceutical companies do not want no deal The NHS does not want no deal Farmers do not want no deal Road hauliers do not want no deal Airlines do not want no deal Airplane manufacturers do not want no deal even the fishing industry does not want no deal. The majority of the UK electorate does not want no deal. This list is not exhaustive.
I accept that no deal remains the default in the absence of a deal but I will still be surprised if, given the above, it happens.
a lot of those people who want no deal have reasons for no deal What’s in it for them? Moggy wants no deal, cause he stands to gain at the fall of the pound. Loved the line from family friend Chris Patten. “The thing with Jacob Rees-Mogg is that he’s got the same views now that he had when he was 8 & he’s now 48”
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 15, 2019 9:41:50 GMT
a lot of those people who want no deal have reasons for no deal What’s in it for them? Moggy wants no deal, cause he stands to gain at the fall of the pound. Loved the line from family friend Chris Patten. “The thing with Jacob Rees-Mogg is that he’s got the same views now that he had when he was 8 & he’s now 48” Talking about bias, would that be ex-EU Commissioner Chris Patten?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Feb 15, 2019 9:58:59 GMT
BREAKING: Snap General Election in Spain called for 28th April.
I'm sure Gibraltar will be mentioned in the campaigns to whip up the usual suspects. Remainers are going to 'warn' that if the WA isn't signed by then the Spanish candidates will promise to be strong on Gib and the WA protects against that. Shame we don't have a pro-Brexit PM who could be publicly sympathetic to Catalan independents who have more in common ideologically to Brexit then they do to Brussels.
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Post by yeokel on Feb 15, 2019 10:04:38 GMT
I think he’s answered your questions pretty well. Why do you want to stay in a failing European superstate with unelected burocrats? He hasn't answered yet. I'm for remaining and reforming, how about you?Are you able to give us an idea of what reforms you would like to see?
Common Agricultural & Fisheries policies? Restrictions on Free Movement to help protect workers pay levels and standards of living? Changes relating to the drift towards a ‘superstate’ possibly to be known as the United States of Europe? The planning for and setting up of a European army? Or other things?
It would be interesting to know what indications you’ve seen that the EU is actually willing to discuss or actually make your reforms as well.
Another side issue, perhaps one for Oggy but I'd welcome your view Huddy, is that there seem to be different types of ‘Remain’.
Oggy says “The difference between leave and remain is that remain voted for what we already have” on the first post on this page. That, presumably, means no reforms, no changes, leave everything as it is.
You, on the other hand, are suggesting that Remain, with some reforms is your preferred option.
I suspect that might be a preferred option for many ‘Leave’ voters too (me included), but we might all require different reforms so if there is a second referendum in the end, how many different types of ‘Remain’ should be on the Ballot paper?
Indeed, how many different types of Remain actually are there as Huddy's 'Remain' is clearly different to Oggy's 'Remain', and other Remainers might promote more or different reforms.
It's a minefield isn't it!
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 15, 2019 10:19:22 GMT
Moggy wants no deal, cause he stands to gain at the fall of the pound. Loved the line from family friend Chris Patten. “The thing with Jacob Rees-Mogg is that he’s got the same views now that he had when he was 8 & he’s now 48” Talking about bias, would that be ex-EU Commissioner Chris Patten? Talking about a nation being torn apart from within the Tory party. “It’s their party & they’ll £@#& who they want to...”
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Post by followyoudown on Feb 15, 2019 10:40:31 GMT
That's not true though is it the backstop is a solution to a problem the EU confected it should not be part of the withdrawal agreement as is it dependent on the future relationship which the EU wont talk about until the WA is agreed. The EU had no involvement in the good friday agreement and if they were so worried about it, adding extra wording to the GFA would have been the way to go but that doesnt give the EU the false pretence to keep the UK in a permanent customs union. It maintains the EU’s freedoms. It is obvious they would do that above all. And May committed to it ages ago so it has been agreed for longer than almost any other aspect of Brexit. If you don’t understand what the freedoms of the EU are which are the central point of the entire union, then you simply do not understand the EU. Do you have a relative who works in financial services in new york ? If you dont understand the difference between a withdrawal agreement and a trade deal which determines the future relationship, you simply do not understand the leaving process. Legal advice is that the backstop is illegal, under A50 it should not form part of the WA but be part of future relationship negotiations. The only reason it has been given such prominence is to frustrate the process in the hope of reversing the vote to leave. Now the penny has dropped this will not happen Ireland is being told there will either be a border on the island or one with the EU in holland or france.
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Post by 3putts on Feb 15, 2019 11:17:29 GMT
with ford rumoured to be quitting the uk we now have more bad news that total are moving 200 jobs to Geneva. this is not project fear it is plain facts.we haven't even left yet. turkeys voted for xmas
I voted Brexit to save british fishermans jobs-the seas around the uk had been fished to death by.... british trawlers!!its only when the eu stepped in and put qoutas in place that has allowed some stocks to recover but unfortunately they have a long way to go before stocks are at the level they should be.
I voted Brexit so we make our own laws- we have allways been able to make our own laws hence the 5p price on a plastic bag which is complete and utter bullshit. I could go on
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Post by essexstokey on Feb 15, 2019 11:37:41 GMT
with ford rumoured to be quitting the uk we now have more bad news that total are moving 200 jobs to Geneva. this is not project fear it is plain facts.we haven't even left yet. turkeys voted for xmas I voted Brexit to save british fishermans jobs-the seas around the uk had been fished to death by.... british trawlers!!its only when the eu stepped in and put qoutas in place that has allowed some stocks to recover but unfortunately they have a long way to go before stocks are at the level they should be. I voted Brexit so we make our own laws- we have allways been able to make our own laws hence the 5p price on a plastic bag which is complete and utter bullshit. I could go on the fishing problem is a self made one what happened was each fisherman was given a quota what then happened was the British fishermen sold there quota and got out of the industry the Spanish, etc. bought these quotas up what then happened was a lot of belly aching by the press and fisherman about the evil foreign boats etc that there mates had sold the fish quotas too. Its a simple case of having there cake and eating it a bit like reis moggs/ fararge's attitude to brexit
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Post by yeokel on Feb 15, 2019 11:38:33 GMT
with ford rumoured to be quitting the uk we now have more bad news that total are moving 200 jobs to Geneva. this is not project fear it is plain facts.we haven't even left yet. turkeys voted for xmas I voted Brexit to save british fishermans jobs-the seas around the uk had been fished to death by.... british trawlers!!its only when the eu stepped in and put qoutas in place that has allowed some stocks to recover but unfortunately they have a long way to go before stocks are at the level they should be. I voted Brexit so we make our own laws- we have allways been able to make our own laws hence the 5p price on a plastic bag which is complete and utter bullshit. I could go on “the 5p price on a plastic bag which is complete and utter bullshit” Why?
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Post by Davef on Feb 15, 2019 12:06:40 GMT
with ford rumoured to be quitting the uk we now have more bad news that total are moving 200 jobs to Geneva. this is not project fear it is plain facts.we haven't even left yet. turkeys voted for xmas I voted Brexit to save british fishermans jobs-the seas around the uk had been fished to death by.... british trawlers!!its only when the eu stepped in and put qoutas in place that has allowed some stocks to recover but unfortunately they have a long way to go before stocks are at the level they should be. I voted Brexit so we make our own laws- we have allways been able to make our own laws hence the 5p price on a plastic bag which is complete and utter bullshit. I could go on “the 5p price on a plastic bag which is complete and utter bullshit” Why? The plastic bag charge is the result of an EU directive.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 15, 2019 12:36:50 GMT
I still say that there would be a different tune on here if Corbyn had stuck with his long held beliefs on the EU, and backed Brexit.
It would be reported differently, too. It would be painted as Corbyn using independance to enact social change, even though the EU has supposedly already done this.
Instead, it's painted as some sort of evil Tory plot to further subjugate the masses. If that were the case, why are there Labour MPs who support Brexit?
I think Brexit is a class issue, as much as anything. The poorest paid voted for Brexit more than the better off. Indeed, you could argue that there is an "I'm alright, Jack" aspect to this.
I am at the bottom of the barrel, live in social housing and do mostly low paid work. The people who I work or worked with all voted for Brexit. Who are MPs who don't have to struggle for adequate housing, jobs etc to tell us we have got it wrong?
The same politicians are completely ignoring genuine concerns about immigration (again), largely because they have all been guilty of letting so many people in, before actually preparing for the influx. They have ruined people's lives, but there is hardly ever a programme highlighting this on the TV.
The concern is always with the EU citizens, not with the British ones. An MP was on TV recently, bemoaning Brexit. She then pointed out that she had 22,000 EU citizens in her constituency! Maybe this is why they get preferential treatment?
I think the "I'm alright, Jack" attitude is prevalent in the general population, too. I have friends who voted Remain, who are in better paid council jobs, and don't have to compete with 100 Polish people (for example) for a job. So they are essentially saying "Fuck you" to the likes of me. I guarantee if they had my experiences, they would have voted Brexit.
What if we Remain? What happens to the divide that has been created? What happens to the resentment that people rightly feel? Most MPs from all parties just don't get it.
There is no representation for the poorest of the working class in this country. Corbyn could represent them, but is shackled. Labour's stance on the customs union and single market makes ending free movement impossible ; something they promised in their manifesto.
I am not buying this concern for manufacturing jobs, either. Where was the concern when small textile businesses were closing down because firms in Poland were undercutting them? Corbyn has even highlighted EU workers undercutting British ones in this country, but this gets forgotten now, with his change of heart on the EU.
The political class has shafted the working class, and the ongoing charade in the House of Commons isn't fooling me. They will engineer an outcome that keeps us just about where we are. And where they want us.
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Post by oggyoggy on Feb 15, 2019 12:38:31 GMT
It maintains the EU’s freedoms. It is obvious they would do that above all. And May committed to it ages ago so it has been agreed for longer than almost any other aspect of Brexit. If you don’t understand what the freedoms of the EU are which are the central point of the entire union, then you simply do not understand the EU. Do you have a relative who works in financial services in new york ? If you dont understand the difference between a withdrawal agreement and a trade deal which determines the future relationship, you simply do not understand the leaving process. Legal advice is that the backstop is illegal, under A50 it should not form part of the WA but be part of future relationship negotiations. The only reason it has been given such prominence is to frustrate the process in the hope of reversing the vote to leave. Now the penny has dropped this will not happen Ireland is being told there will either be a border on the island or one with the EU in holland or france. None of my relatives work in financial services. Both sides, us and the EU, agreed that there will be no hard border in Ireland, which the backstop prevents. May, Davis, Johnson et al agreed that ages ago with the EU. The backstop comes into play only in the event of no trade deal being reached and so it is entirely separate to a future trade agreement. Do you follow? That’s why it is a backstop. If we had a future trade agreement with the EU, the backstop would not be needed. Don’t you see, May has painted herself into a corner by committing to no hard border in Ireland. It means we have to have a trade deal with some form of customs union, and there has to be a backstop preventing the hard border if that trade deal is not ready.
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