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Post by imho on May 23, 2017 7:08:21 GMT
At the moment we're all presuming that it was a Muslim bomber, which may or may not be the case; either way it's telling that a number of posters on this thread whilst not excusing the bomber are making excuses in the possible reasons behind the attack and some even hoping that he was white non Muslim just so they can take some form of higher ground.
To you people I say hang your head in shame, today is not the day, sometimes you have to let people vent. Make your arguments in the future but not today.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 7:08:40 GMT
I for one will not comment further on this post, as others have said innocent children have died, and eggybread is justifying it.
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Post by partickpotter on May 23, 2017 7:13:54 GMT
So very, very sad.
Thoughts with all those who have been murdered and their families whose sadness this morning will be overwhelming.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 7:14:27 GMT
At the moment we're all presuming that it was a Muslim bomber, which may or may not be the case; either way it's telling that a number of posters on this thread whilst not excusing the bomber are making excuses in the possible reasons behind the attack and some even hoping that he was white non Muslim just so they can take some form of higher ground. To you people I say hang your head in shame, today is not the day, sometimes you have to let people vent. Make your arguments in the future but not today. Who has 'hoped that he was white non Muslim' mate? The only people I've seen hoping for anything have been the usual hate mob hoping it's a Muslim.
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Post by 3putts on May 23, 2017 7:15:53 GMT
FFS Admin...Ban this prick eggybread....Children are dead, and he is justifying it... Fuck you too .Im saying they kill we kill is that too hard to understand.If it is then therein lies the problem .Get your head out of the sand and open your eyes. Man has killed man since the dawn of time.difference is we have killed to stop atrocities these scum murder innocents
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Post by serpico on May 23, 2017 7:17:57 GMT
It's still raw but now is the time to talk about what action needs to be taken before people move on, forget about it and allow it to happen again.
You can't eradicate terrorism, it's an impossible task, what you can do is act in a way that doesn't increase the odds of it being aimed at you, and pointing out that our foreign policy puts us in danger isn't the same as excusing attacks like this one, the despicable perpetrator is 100% responsible for this but it's not happening in a vacuum, our foreign policy the last 16 years has been massively counterproductive to the aim of reducing terror, we knocked out middle eastern governments who were terrible people but they opposed Al Qeada and other Jihadi groups, by knocking them out we created a veritable JIhadi training ground in multiple muslim nations, having western troops on muslim land gave the jihadis their cause celebre to garner more recruits, going into Iraq legitimised bin laden in the eyes of a generation of muslims who would have otherwise not joined his rank, and it was unecessary as saddam was not a threat to us and he opposed Jihadis, as did Gadaffi, as does Assad! do people think we'd still be dealing with a terror threat had we just narrowly gone after bin laden post 9/11 ?... i don't.
imo theres only one way to stop this now, disengage the middle east militarily, stop intervening, force the regional powers to deal with ISIS, put a temporary block on immigration and refugees coming in to the UK from a certain region and then redirect resources to weeding out the homegrown threat, it may take a few years but the threat will significantly be reduced.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on May 23, 2017 7:42:44 GMT
We all know that for every one suicide bomber there are 100 or more ready to take his or her place.
Unless something is done yesterdays terrible crime will happen again.
Tolerance breeds intolerance.
One place to start would be Mosques.
What exactly goes on in there?
What is being taught?
Perhaps more importantly are Islamic schools where children are bought up with the Saudi curriculum which is explicitly antisemitic & homophobic.
These people will never integrate voluntarily.
We should now acknowledge that and bring in measures to stop any further Islamification of the UK
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Post by nicholasjalcock on May 23, 2017 7:49:08 GMT
We all know that for every one suicide bomber there are 100 or more ready to take his or her place. Unless something is done yesterdays terrible crime will happen again. Tolerance breeds intolerance. One place to start would be Mosques. What exactly goes on in there? What is being taught? Perhaps more importantly are Islamic schools where children are bought up with the Saudi curriculum which is explicitly antisemitic & homophobic. These people will never integrate voluntarily. We should now acknowledge that and bring in measures to stop any further Islamification of the UK Then start to reduce it. Is this the same Saudi Arabia Donald J. Trump has just signed $300 billion defence contracts with?
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Post by nicholasjalcock on May 23, 2017 7:55:58 GMT
Is this the same Saudi Arabia Donald J. Trump has just signed $300 billion defence contracts with? The same Saudi Arabia that Osama Bin Laden and the 9/11 bombers were from, I believe. True and the same Saudi Arabia which has been Britain's biggest defence market for decades(America is second).
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Post by stillgame4it on May 23, 2017 7:57:27 GMT
So you are saying we shouldn't protect ourselves Im saying stop killing innocent people all around the world and maybe just maybe they will leave us alone,because at the moment this shit just isnt working for anyone is it? I was there to pick up my family last night as they attended this concert, and you are seriously trying to defend these scum who tried to kill them and did succeed in killing lots of other innocent children? You are a fucking idiot.
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Post by serpico on May 23, 2017 8:00:45 GMT
someone on ITV this morning suggesting we shouldn't be angry ...er, if you can;t get angry at this then when is the right time to get angry ?
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Post by Northy on May 23, 2017 8:03:25 GMT
So just a coincidence that it was on the 4th anniversary of Lee Rigby's murder? 22nd May is a bit of a date in their religion, going back to when Alfred the great defeated Persia, an attempted assasination on Saladin and Napoleons claim to give Jerusalem back to the Jews all on the 22nd May, I dont know if its all coincidence but it is a date that seems to have significance.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on May 23, 2017 8:05:14 GMT
someone on ITV this morning suggesting we shouldn't be angry ...er, if you can;t get angry at this then when is the right time to get angry ? Some fucking liberal do gooder no doubt 😡
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Post by nicholasjalcock on May 23, 2017 8:05:35 GMT
someone on ITV this morning suggesting we shouldn't be angry ...er, if you can;t get angry at this then when is the right time to get angry ? The police and security services will be as dispassionate as possible. Why? Because emotions like anger cloud good judgment. It's good judgment that achieves results.
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Post by Northy on May 23, 2017 8:07:47 GMT
So you are saying we shouldn't protect ourselves Im saying stop killing innocent people all around the world and maybe just maybe they will leave us alone,because at the moment this shit just isnt working for anyone is it? but it wont will it, their version of religion gives them cause to kill all infidels - , christians, non believers, gays, they want to iIslamify the world
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Post by Eggybread on May 23, 2017 8:09:40 GMT
Im saying stop killing innocent people all around the world and maybe just maybe they will leave us alone,because at the moment this shit just isnt working for anyone is it? I was there to pick up my family last night as they attended this concert, and you are seriously trying to defend these scum who tried to kill them and did succeed in killing lots of other innocent children? You are a fucking idiot. Are you insane? Where have I defended them?
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on May 23, 2017 8:11:03 GMT
someone on ITV this morning suggesting we shouldn't be angry ...er, if you can;t get angry at this then when is the right time to get angry ? The police and security services will be as dispassionate as possible. Why? Because emotions like anger cloud good judgment. It's good judgment that achieves results. Very true. An emotionless response is needed. What that is, is for the experts to determine, but any over emotion will cloud any sound judgement.
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Post by imho on May 23, 2017 8:11:15 GMT
At the moment we're all presuming that it was a Muslim bomber, which may or may not be the case; either way it's telling that a number of posters on this thread whilst not excusing the bomber are making excuses in the possible reasons behind the attack and some even hoping that he was white non Muslim just so they can take some form of higher ground. To you people I say hang your head in shame, today is not the day, sometimes you have to let people vent. Make your arguments in the future but not today. Who has 'hoped that he was white non Muslim' mate? The only people I've seen hoping for anything have been the usual hate mob hoping it's a Muslim. I take it you haven't read all the posts then - eggybread on page 3 mentions it. I await your apology.
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Post by muglump on May 23, 2017 8:13:10 GMT
Like I said, "sad sad man". A child is a child wherever he or she is born.I dont discriminate.All of it is sad but we as a country cannot take the moral high ground when we are implicated in so many attrocities around the world. It's got nothing to do with the moral high ground. I'm sure we'll get all manner of idiots spouting their nasty ideas all over facebook etc. about this. But frankly it is okay to wish that this loony and especially the vile pieces of shit who pulled his puppet strings should burn eternally in whatever hell they believe in. It is not acceptable to make political points when so many kids just got blown up. You can't be surprised if people tell you to shut the fuck up.
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Post by Timmypotter on May 23, 2017 8:14:26 GMT
It's still raw but now is the time to talk about what action needs to be taken before people move on, forget about it and allow it to happen again. You can't eradicate terrorism, it's an impossible task, what you can do is act in a way that doesn't increase the odds of it being aimed at you, and pointing out that our foreign policy puts us in danger isn't the same as excusing attacks like this one, the despicable perpetrator is 100% responsible for this but it's not happening in a vacuum, our foreign policy the last 16 years has been massively counterproductive to the aim of reducing terror, we knocked out middle eastern governments who were terrible people but they opposed Al Qeada and other Jihadi groups, by knocking them out we created a veritable JIhadi training ground in multiple muslim nations, having western troops on muslim land gave the jihadis their cause celebre to garner more recruits, going into Iraq legitimised bin laden in the eyes of a generation of muslims who would have otherwise not joined his rank, and it was unecessary as saddam was not a threat to us and he opposed Jihadis, as did Gadaffi, as does Assad! do people think we'd still be dealing with a terror threat had we just narrowly gone after bin laden post 9/11 ?... i don't. imo theres only one way to stop this now, disengage the middle east militarily, stop intervening, force the regional powers to deal with ISIS, put a temporary block on immigration and refugees coming in to the UK from a certain region and then redirect resources to weeding out the homegrown threat, it may take a few years but the threat will significantly be reduced. Jeremy Bowen's recent radio series on the middle east has a lot to say about this. After Gulf 1 we didn't engage beyond kicking Saddam out of Kuwait. That was bad and the west was vilified for allowing the slaughter of Kurds and Shias. In Gulf 2 we did engage. That was bad and the west was vilified for creating a power vacuum. For what it's worth I'd say the west got it wrong on both occasions, but how do you win? The blame for killing innocent kids falls on the pricks who make and carry the bombs - there are no mitigating circumstances or other explanations. Thoughts with all affected families.
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Post by serpico on May 23, 2017 8:14:57 GMT
someone on ITV this morning suggesting we shouldn't be angry ...er, if you can;t get angry at this then when is the right time to get angry ? The police and security services will be as dispassionate as possible. Why? Because emotions like anger cloud good judgment. It's good judgment that achieves results. they were talking about the general population, not the security services, i think it's fair game to be angry after a suicide bomber detonates a nail bomb at a concert being attended largely by teenage girls!
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Post by woodstein on May 23, 2017 8:17:51 GMT
Conclusions: You make me vomit you pathetic muslim terrorist apologist. Time for for me to be rude to you for a change. No, mumf. As I posted on the Bangkok thread, it's sadly typical of people like you to use a terrorist atrocity to score points on an Internet message board. I'll cast judgement as and when the professionals have done their job. Until then, sincere RIP and best wishes to everyone else. (Something you haven't wished I notice). Why do you think I'm so angry? Because I do care for these poor innocent victims and our once peaceful country. But its time to fight fire with fire. None of this crap about them wanting us to get wound up. Terrorists are weak cowards who are not worth prison space. Show their supporters or other potential followers what happens when you carry out these atrocities.
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Post by manmarking on May 23, 2017 8:19:44 GMT
Who has 'hoped that he was white non Muslim' mate? The only people I've seen hoping for anything have been the usual hate mob hoping it's a Muslim. I take it you haven't read all the posts then - eggybread on page 3 mentions it. I await your apology. I'm not apologising for asking you a question mate. Jesus. What the fuck is wrong with this board today?! He doesn't openly hope they're white non-Muslim on page 3 mate, just expresses the possibility that they might be from what I can see.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on May 23, 2017 8:20:47 GMT
The police and security services will be as dispassionate as possible. Why? Because emotions like anger cloud good judgment. It's good judgment that achieves results. they were talking about the general population, not the security services, i think it's fair game to be angry after a suicide bomber detonates a nail bomb at a concert being attended largely by teenage girls! I'm sure H.M. Police would disagree with you as angry people do silly and often criminal things. It is H.M.Police's job to enforce the law not anger fuelled individuals.
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Post by serpico on May 23, 2017 8:25:39 GMT
It's still raw but now is the time to talk about what action needs to be taken before people move on, forget about it and allow it to happen again. You can't eradicate terrorism, it's an impossible task, what you can do is act in a way that doesn't increase the odds of it being aimed at you, and pointing out that our foreign policy puts us in danger isn't the same as excusing attacks like this one, the despicable perpetrator is 100% responsible for this but it's not happening in a vacuum, our foreign policy the last 16 years has been massively counterproductive to the aim of reducing terror, we knocked out middle eastern governments who were terrible people but they opposed Al Qeada and other Jihadi groups, by knocking them out we created a veritable JIhadi training ground in multiple muslim nations, having western troops on muslim land gave the jihadis their cause celebre to garner more recruits, going into Iraq legitimised bin laden in the eyes of a generation of muslims who would have otherwise not joined his rank, and it was unecessary as saddam was not a threat to us and he opposed Jihadis, as did Gadaffi, as does Assad! do people think we'd still be dealing with a terror threat had we just narrowly gone after bin laden post 9/11 ?... i don't. imo theres only one way to stop this now, disengage the middle east militarily, stop intervening, force the regional powers to deal with ISIS, put a temporary block on immigration and refugees coming in to the UK from a certain region and then redirect resources to weeding out the homegrown threat, it may take a few years but the threat will significantly be reduced. Jeremy Bowen's recent radio series on the middle east has a lot to say about this. After Gulf 1 we didn't engage beyond kicking Saddam out of Kuwait. That was bad and the west was vilified for allowing the slaughter of Kurds and Shias. In Gulf 2 we did engage. That was bad and the west was vilified for creating a power vacuum. For what it's worth I'd say the west got it wrong on both occasions, but how do you win? The blame for killing innocent kids falls on the pricks who make and carry the bombs - there are no mitigating circumstances or other explanations. Thoughts with all affected families. The west carried on bombing and sanctioning Iraq all though the 90's, there was no military disengagement, they just didn't go all the way and topple saddam (for reasons we saw after 2003 invasion, ask dick cheney) and left some Iraqis out to dry Bin Laden, Saudis and the region as a whole were angered by the fact the US stationed troops on military bases in mecca and medina from which they attacked Iraq in the first gulf war, this really was the beginning of modern day islamic terrorism, it lit the blue touch paper. Bin Laden also wanted to put an army together and fight Saddam but the Saudi rulers wouldn't allow him, he made a big stink and got kicked out of the kingdom, after this he got AQ going and dedicated himself to attacking the US, but in the beginning he forbid attacks on civilians, the terror threat has mutated ever since and it's now so nihilistic they're targeting teenagers at a pop concert!
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Post by Mendicant on May 23, 2017 8:29:31 GMT
Condoleances to the families of all those affected. Let's hope the people of Manchester can get back to a happy day-to-day normality in their great city, and the families who have lost someone find the strength they need and deserve.
It's just up the road from Stoke of course, so the shock will feel raw to us. Still, best foot forward folks, and remember who we are.
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Post by harryburrows on May 23, 2017 8:31:12 GMT
Jeremy Bowen's recent radio series on the middle east has a lot to say about this. After Gulf 1 we didn't engage beyond kicking Saddam out of Kuwait. That was bad and the west was vilified for allowing the slaughter of Kurds and Shias. In Gulf 2 we did engage. That was bad and the west was vilified for creating a power vacuum. For what it's worth I'd say the west got it wrong on both occasions, but how do you win? The blame for killing innocent kids falls on the pricks who make and carry the bombs - there are no mitigating circumstances or other explanations. Thoughts with all affected families. The west carried on bombing and sanctioning Iraq all though the 90's, there was no military disengagement, they just didn't go all the way and topple saddam (for reasons we saw after 2003 invasion, ask dick cheney) and left some Iraqis out to dry Bin Laden, Saudis and the reunion as a whole were angered by the fact the US stationed troops on military bases in mecca and medina from which they attacked Iraq in the first gulf war, this really was the beginning of modern day islamic terrorism, it lit the blue touch paper. Bin Laden also wanted to put an army together and fight Saddam but the Saudi rulers wouldn't allow him, he made a big stink and got kicked out of the kingdom, after this he got AQ going and dedicated himself to attacking the US, but in the beginning he forbid attacks on civilians, the terror threat has muted ever since and it's now so nihilistic they're targeting teenagers at a pop concert! Because Saddam was always seen as pro western , with his war on Iran and his use of western military advisors . My enemies enemy is my friend or so they thought
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Post by thebet365 on May 23, 2017 8:38:02 GMT
I was there to pick up my family last night as they attended this concert, and you are seriously trying to defend these scum who tried to kill them and did succeed in killing lots of other innocent children? You are a fucking idiot. Are you insane? Where have I defended them? If I complained about someone beating me up, and you say "Well if your grandad hadn't of beaten up his grandad maybe he wouldn't of attacked you" That is defending his actions.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on May 23, 2017 8:40:15 GMT
Jeremy Bowen's recent radio series on the middle east has a lot to say about this. After Gulf 1 we didn't engage beyond kicking Saddam out of Kuwait. That was bad and the west was vilified for allowing the slaughter of Kurds and Shias. In Gulf 2 we did engage. That was bad and the west was vilified for creating a power vacuum. For what it's worth I'd say the west got it wrong on both occasions, but how do you win? The blame for killing innocent kids falls on the pricks who make and carry the bombs - there are no mitigating circumstances or other explanations. Thoughts with all affected families. The west carried on bombing and sanctioning Iraq all though the 90's, there was no military disengagement, they just didn't go all the way and topple saddam (for reasons we saw after 2003 invasion, ask dick cheney) and left some Iraqis out to dry Bin Laden, Saudis and the region as a whole were angered by the fact the US stationed troops on military bases in mecca and medina from which they attacked Iraq in the first gulf war, this really was the beginning of modern day islamic terrorism, it lit the blue touch paper. Bin Laden also wanted to put an army together and fight Saddam but the Saudi rulers wouldn't allow him, he made a big stink and got kicked out of the kingdom, after this he got AQ going and dedicated himself to attacking the US, but in the beginning he forbid attacks on civilians, the terror threat has mutated ever since and it's now so nihilistic they're targeting teenagers at a pop concert! I'm pretty certain that the suicide bomber in Manchester had no detailed grasp of the geo Political situation in the Middle East or elsewhere just a burning hatred of the West. You can reason with logic but not with emotion. And that's the problem. Because for every one suicide bomber there are 100 more with some deranged grievance against Western culture & Religion and the tolerance it promotes.
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Post by thebet365 on May 23, 2017 8:42:20 GMT
RIP to all who lost their lives
I'm taking my daughter to a concert next month and shouldn't have to be worrying about if she'll be safe or not.
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