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Post by djduncanjames on Apr 30, 2017 20:05:29 GMT
Just a question fellas
Wonder who posters see us as comparable to in the Premier League?
When we came up I looked with awe and envy at clubs like Villa and Bolton and Blackburn and Everton and Newcastle Untied and wondered if we could really compete at this level.
We have fellas, and managed too see off many of them, despite the dour mood of many fans that we are stagnant
I'm not happy with this season, our expectations are bigger than ever. So where do you see our comparable club now we have earned millions in this league and the much deserved respect?
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Post by bojancity on Apr 30, 2017 20:14:45 GMT
Palace
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Post by Gods on Apr 30, 2017 20:16:40 GMT
Honestly I think we kidded ourselves before the season began that we were in some mini league with say Everton and Southampton which sat neatly between the 'pack' and the Big 6.
Truth is with just 3 points separating 9th from 16th its plain to see we are simply in the pack with Bournemouth and Watford and you can't put a sliver of paper between any of us.
Its been a real unpleasant dose of reality and in part at least explains the current mood of crushed expectations.
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Post by djduncanjames on Apr 30, 2017 20:18:11 GMT
I was hoping first reply would be Everton! Palace have been here 5 mins! SO we have regressed then?
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Post by djduncanjames on Apr 30, 2017 20:20:01 GMT
Honestly I think we kidded ourselves before the season began that we were in some mini league with say Everton and Southampton which sat neatly between the 'pack' and the Big 6. Truth is with just 3 points separating 9th from 16th its plain to see we are simply in the pack with Bournemouth and Watford and you can't put a sliver of paper between any of us. Its been a real unpleasant dose of harsh reality and in part at least explains the current mood of crushed expectations. Put Burnley in that sliver of paper to GOds
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Post by philm87 on Apr 30, 2017 20:22:37 GMT
I was hoping first reply would be Everton! Palace have been here 5 mins! SO we have regressed then? They have been here 3-4 years now, during which time they have comfortably finished above the relegation places, have been managed by some of the best and most experienced managers in the league, have spent tens of millions on quality players like Cabaye and Benteke and sellout and similar number to us each week. You need to be a bit more realistic. The majority of the teams above us are much bigger clubs with greater resources.
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Post by Gods on Apr 30, 2017 20:24:19 GMT
Honestly I think we kidded ourselves before the season began that we were in some mini league with say Everton and Southampton which sat neatly between the 'pack' and the Big 6. Truth is with just 3 points separating 9th from 16th its plain to see we are simply in the pack with Bournemouth and Watford and you can't put a sliver of paper between any of us. Its been a real unpleasant dose of harsh reality and in part at least explains the current mood of crushed expectations. Put Burnley in that sliver of paper to GOds I actually typed 'Burnley' before changing it to Watford
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Post by djduncanjames on Apr 30, 2017 20:26:18 GMT
I was hoping first reply would be Everton! Palace have been here 5 mins! SO we have regressed then? They have been here 3-4 years now, during which time they have comfortably finished above the relegation places, have been managed by some of the best and most experienced managers in the league, have spent tens of millions on quality players like Cabaye and Benteke and sellout and similar number to us each week. You need to be a bit more realistic. The majority of the teams above us are much bigger clubs with greater resources. SO a decade in we are comparable to newly promoted sides.. I'm interested in what you guys think, I'm undecided where the hell we are or where the hell we are going. I'm confused. Tens of millions spent here as well Phil..
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Post by philm87 on Apr 30, 2017 20:28:43 GMT
They have been here 3-4 years now, during which time they have comfortably finished above the relegation places, have been managed by some of the best and most experienced managers in the league, have spent tens of millions on quality players like Cabaye and Benteke and sellout and similar number to us each week. You need to be a bit more realistic. The majority of the teams above us are much bigger clubs with greater resources. SO a decade in we are comparable to newly promoted sides.. I'm interested in what you guys think, I'm undecided where the hell we are or where the hell we are going. I'm confused. Tens of millions spent here as well Phil.. I wouldnt really call them newly promoted anymore. They are an established Premier League club now. In what sense are you looking to compare us with others? Financial resources, size of club, quality of playing squad?
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Post by Gods on Apr 30, 2017 20:28:54 GMT
I was hoping first reply would be Everton! Palace have been here 5 mins! SO we have regressed then? They have been here 3-4 years now, during which time they have comfortably finished above the relegation places, have been managed by some of the best and most experienced managers in the league, have spent tens of millions on quality players like Cabaye and Benteke and sellout and similar number to us each week. You need to be a bit more realistic. The majority of the teams above us are much bigger clubs with greater resources. Yes and in addition Everton have been building up to it for 114 years so we shouldn't be too surprised ! Years in the top flight
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Post by Glory Hunter on Apr 30, 2017 20:29:31 GMT
Southampton, Leicester, West Brom most comparable.
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Post by duckling on Apr 30, 2017 20:30:16 GMT
There really isn't much separating 8th though 15th in terms of quality, consistency (or lack thereof), and potential for relegation.
If I had to pick a comparable team, it would be West Brom. Mid size club with mid table finances. Owners who prioritize survival but don't really feel like they have reason to panic over it. This is their 7th consecutive season, and they generally have looked like they won't finish above 8th or below 15th except for one season. It'll be interesting to see if they change with the new ownership.
Going into the start of the season, you'd think it's 50/50 whether Stoke or West Brom finish higher.
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Post by duckling on Apr 30, 2017 20:31:48 GMT
Southampton, Leicester, West Brom most comparable. The major difference with Southampton is that they have a very successful academy.
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Post by djduncanjames on Apr 30, 2017 20:31:53 GMT
There really isn't much separating 8th though 15th in terms of quality, consistency (or lack thereof), and potential for relegation. If I had to pick a comparable team, it would be West Brom. Mid size club with mid table finances. Owners who prioritize survival but don't really feel like they have reason to panic over it. This is their 7th consecutive season, and they generally have looked like they won't finish above 8th or below 15th except for one season. It'll be interesting to see if they change with the new ownership. Going into the start of the season, you'd think it's 50/50 whether Stoke or West Brom finish higher. Have they been relegated twice since our promotion or is that Newcastle and West ham I am thinking of?
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Post by Gods on Apr 30, 2017 20:33:54 GMT
Southampton, Leicester, West Brom most comparable. The major difference with Leicester is that they are the title holders and Champions League quarter finalists.
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Post by Linx on Apr 30, 2017 20:34:05 GMT
We aren't quite up with Everton. They still have the ability to attract big name managers and players; there is no way a Koeman would roll up at Stoke just yet, or a striker like Lukaku. They still have a small core of England players, still develop good young players who are actually regular first teamers, and are a comfortable top ten side with realistic chances of becoming top six. That just isn't us yet.
I'd say we are more a West Ham. Their fans are similarly passionate and parochial, and they are having similar doubts about their manager who, like Hughes, has more support in the media than amongst a vocal element in the fan base. They're British-owned as well, by lifelong supporters. The club are as maddeningly inconsistent as we are; just as you think they are putting something together, it all falls flat and they sort of drift. The kind of team you always feel you have a chance against, but can equally thump you when you least expect it.
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Post by djduncanjames on Apr 30, 2017 20:34:55 GMT
They have been here 3-4 years now, during which time they have comfortably finished above the relegation places, have been managed by some of the best and most experienced managers in the league, have spent tens of millions on quality players like Cabaye and Benteke and sellout and similar number to us each week. You need to be a bit more realistic. The majority of the teams above us are much bigger clubs with greater resources. Yes adn in addition Everton have been building up to it for 114 years so we shouldn't be too surprised ! Years in the top flightEverton are the "Pinnacle" of my comparison obviously Gods, I'm well aware of their success, I just thought we were gaining on them over the years.. Finished ahead of them last season I think lads?
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Apr 30, 2017 20:35:04 GMT
Charlton sorry their had to be one, and it had to me
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Post by Davef on Apr 30, 2017 20:36:12 GMT
When we get to the end of the season I reckon there will be about eight or nine clubs who'll look back and consider their season to be worse than last year and that includes the likes of Southampton, West Ham, us and Palace. Even West Brom, who've been regarded as having a good season may only finish with three or four more points than last season's 43.
So we're certainly not the only set of disappointed and disillusioned fans in the Premier League.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 20:38:58 GMT
We should be competing for 7th/8th this season, the league below spurs has been mostly dross. From Everton's team i take Lukaku, Coleman and Gueye in our starting XI. And they're way ahead of us.
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Post by duckling on Apr 30, 2017 20:39:21 GMT
There really isn't much separating 8th though 15th in terms of quality, consistency (or lack thereof), and potential for relegation. If I had to pick a comparable team, it would be West Brom. Mid size club with mid table finances. Owners who prioritize survival but don't really feel like they have reason to panic over it. This is their 7th consecutive season, and they generally have looked like they won't finish above 8th or below 15th except for one season. It'll be interesting to see if they change with the new ownership. Going into the start of the season, you'd think it's 50/50 whether Stoke or West Brom finish higher. Have they been relegated twice since our promotion or is that Newcastle and West ham I am thinking of? Once. They came up with Stoke, went straight back down, and bounced straight back up. I think the West Brom board value stability and are realistic about how difficult it is to push higher, hence keeping Pulis. It's understandable when you look at the bouncing they did. Between 2002 and 2010 they had seven relegations or promotions! They've finally stopped being a yo yo club. If you look at the West Brom board, you'll see a split of fans frustrated by the lack of ambition and those happy with mid table stability.
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Post by djduncanjames on Apr 30, 2017 20:42:40 GMT
SO a decade in we are comparable to newly promoted sides.. I'm interested in what you guys think, I'm undecided where the hell we are or where the hell we are going. I'm confused. Tens of millions spent here as well Phil.. I wouldnt really call them newly promoted anymore. They are an established Premier League club now. In what sense are you looking to compare us with others? Financial resources, size of club, quality of playing squad? In the Sense "our Natural position" in the league as it were. Savage seems to think its in and around 12th and we are clueless to think otherwise. We've been here a while, should be fighting and winning, not being punching bags conceding 4 willy nilly I think with our resources we should be top 10 minimum really. I don't "really" care, I'm happy camper if we try hard and stay up. I'm just gauging peoples opinions, I like debate as it opens my eyes to new opinions and ideas
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Apr 30, 2017 20:43:15 GMT
Best owners. Best Club. Best manager.
At the moment. Ring some juice out of that while the Stanley Matthews Academy catches up.
KTF.
And only really Spurs appreciably better in their nogger.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 30, 2017 20:43:27 GMT
Southampton, Leicester, West Brom most comparable. The major difference with Southampton is that they have a very successful academy. And have employed managers prepared to give younger players a chance I mean a proper chance unlike Sohbi.
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Post by duckling on Apr 30, 2017 20:45:01 GMT
We should be competing for 7th/8th this season, the league below spurs has been mostly dross. From Everton's team i take Lukaku, Coleman and Gueye in our starting XI. And they're way ahead of us. About half a dozen clubs' fans can rightfully say that they should be competing for 7th/8th. Only one of them can. This year it happens to be West Brom until Pulis decided to throw the remaining games after hitting 40 points in order to temper expectations. Next year Stoke, West Brom, Leicester, West Ham, Southampton, and maybe one other depending on summer transfers will have fans hoping for 7th/8th place. It's impossible to predict who will get it because there isn't much to separate the teams on paper. Regardless, Stoke will be in a competition for that spot in which there will be more losers than winners.
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Post by Gods on Apr 30, 2017 20:46:27 GMT
I think West Brom is a better comparison than West Ham, the Hammers have twice as many people coming through the gate on a weekly basis as us for a start, oh and they won the World Cup in 1966.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 20:46:47 GMT
We have, I believe, been let down this season, largely by our bigger signings letting us down badly, one way or another. Injuries, loss of form, inconsistency and a reliance on the ageing players in said squad. Who would have thought, that our costliest signing would not be playing, Bojan suffering a poor season, (for us anyway), the loss of Shaqiri through a long term lay off, and a lack of goals from anywhere on the pitch , inane substitions etc; the list goes on! We as fans can just sit and watch, while some of us, vent our frustrations on here. Frustrating, being my favourite word of this poor season, entertainment wise. Just for once, I would like to see a transfer window, where we get something right, in the summer!
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Post by djduncanjames on Apr 30, 2017 20:48:34 GMT
We aren't quite up with Everton. They still have the ability to attract big name managers and players; there is no way a Koeman would roll up at Stoke just yet, or a striker like Lukaku. They still have a small core of England players, still develop good young players who are actually regular first teamers, and are a comfortable top ten side with realistic chances of becoming top six. That just isn't us yet. I'd say we are more a West Ham. Their fans are similarly passionate and parochial, and they are having similar doubts about their manager who, like Hughes, has more support in the media than amongst a vocal element in the fan base. They're British-owned as well, by lifelong supporters. The club are as maddeningly inconsistent as we are; just as you think they are putting something together, it all falls flat and they sort of drift. The kind of team you always feel you have a chance against, but can equally thump you when you least expect it. Great post Linx
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Post by duckling on Apr 30, 2017 20:50:11 GMT
We have, I believe, been let down this season, largely by our bigger signings letting us down badly, one way or another. Injuries, loss of form, inconsistency and a reliance on the ageing players in said squad. Who would have thought, that our costliest signing would not be playing, Bojan suffering a poor season, (for us anyway), the loss of Shaqiri through a long term lay off, and a lack of goals from anywhere on the pitch , inane substitions etc; the list goes on!e get something right, in the summer! And yet you're still on course for a mid table finish. This has been a good season to have shit luck and shit performances because so many teams have done the same. There is a very real possibility that no team below 7th will reach 50 points.
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Post by philm87 on Apr 30, 2017 20:52:48 GMT
I wouldnt really call them newly promoted anymore. They are an established Premier League club now. In what sense are you looking to compare us with others? Financial resources, size of club, quality of playing squad? In the Sense "our Natural position" in the league as it were. Savage seems to think its in and around 12th and we are clueless to think otherwise. We've been here a while, should be fighting and winning, not being punching bags conceding 4 willy nilly I think with our resources we should be top 10 minimum really. I don't "really" care, I'm happy camper if we try hard and stay up. I'm just gauging peoples opinions, I like debate as it opens my eyes to new opinions and ideas Well then it depends what 'natural position' refers to? Our average league position over the history of our club? That would presumably be about 20th? Or the position we should be based on our resources and stature in comparison to those other teams in the division at the moment? That would be anywhere between 8th and 14th so Savage is not really to far out to be honest. We have punched above our weight slightly over the last decade or so and many of us have slightly unrealistic expectations. Yes we should aim to challenge for 7-8th place but we should not assume that a season or two outside the top ten is a catastrophe.
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