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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 26, 2017 16:13:01 GMT
Is it all down to Hughes or is he having his hands tied? Has he gone to Coates and said "I'm desperate for Johnson, Walters, Afellay, Whelan and Crouch to sign new contracts", or is something else at play, here?
Something just doesn't ring true.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 16:19:01 GMT
With regard to the older players I think its a mixture of worries that Hughes has developed.
Originally, I think he was worried about completely breaking up a squad and a changing room by getting rid of too many players (a la QPR).
This season, I think he's lost faith that his younger, shinier players can do the job they've been bought to do (rightly or wrongly) and is petrified of getting rid of the old guard in case it comes back to bite him. He reminds me of a hoarder, too worried about getting rid of anything, however useless, in case he might need it later.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 26, 2017 16:23:53 GMT
Giving strange contract renewals to older players is exactly what the QPR fans said he did there and he had an old squad at Fulham too. So I can't look past Hughes for that. He has form for it.
The rest of it is I'm guessing a mess contrived between Hughes, his head scout, Cartwright and Scholes.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 26, 2017 16:28:12 GMT
Giving strange contract renewals to older players is exactly what the QPR fans said he did there and he had an old squad at Fulham too. So I can't look past Hughes for that. He has form for it. The rest of it is I'm guessing a mess contrived between Hughes, his head scout, Cartwright and Scholes. If that's the case, I don't hold great hopes for the summer. I think Sheikmomo said it recently; it's root and branch change that's needed. |
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Post by gingerninja on Apr 26, 2017 16:28:42 GMT
I've said before he has never embraced youth. That's why with such a promising crop of young players at the moment I am surprised Coates is backing him next season with yet more cash..
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 26, 2017 16:29:17 GMT
Giving strange contract renewals to older players is exactly what the QPR fans said he did there and he had an old squad at Fulham too. So I can't look past Hughes for that. He has form for it. The rest of it is I'm guessing a mess contrived between Hughes, his head scout, Cartwright and Scholes. If that's the case, I don't hold great hopes for the summer. I think Sheikmomo said it recently; it's root and branch change that's needed. I'd sack them all. Said it for ages. |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Apr 26, 2017 16:32:44 GMT
The real weakness is in recruiting strikers. We have done okay under Hughes on goalkeepers, maybe slightly negative Grant v Haugaard/Given. Okay on defenders especially when we consider what fees we have paid for them, not spectacular but solid and signing Bruno would put this area in the plus column. Mixed in midfield but Allen, Afellay, Bojan balance Imbula and also true Ireland has contributed, so not a bad hit rate but no CDM on the negative side. Good on wide players, Arnie, Shaq and Sobhi. But shocking on strikers, Giudetti, Diouf, Joselu, Bony and yet to see on Berahino. What's most worrying si we seem to ahve made the strikers we sign into worse players
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Apr 26, 2017 17:00:43 GMT
If that's the case, I don't hold great hopes for the summer. I think Sheikmomo said it recently; it's root and branch change that's needed. I'd sack them all. Said it for ages. Hard to disagree with that, they certainly don't inspire confidence, do they? What I'd give for Southamptons recruitment team, including choosing manager's. |
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 26, 2017 17:06:58 GMT
Everything on the football side, the buck stops with Hughes. He is the kind of bloke that, if decisions were taken out of his hands, he would probably walk.
Yes, Carto and Cruickshanks (who is Hughes' chief scout and his appointment) will recommend players, and Carto will help Scholes to negotiate the deal, but I am positive no player will sign for Stoke without Hughes' final say so.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Apr 26, 2017 17:17:09 GMT
Everything on the football side, the buck stops with Hughes. He is the kind of bloke that, if decisions were taken out of his hands, he would probably walk. Yes, Carto and Cruickshanks (who is Hughes' chief scout and his appointment) will recommend players, and Carto will help Scholes to negotiate the deal, but I am positive no player will sign for Stoke without Hughes' final say so. Are you sure? I'm getting the increasing feeling that Sobhi wasn't a Hughes signing. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 17:36:38 GMT
I'll repeat. Lose on Saturday, and I for one will be calling for his head, amongst a lot of others methinks!
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 26, 2017 17:45:54 GMT
Everything on the football side, the buck stops with Hughes. He is the kind of bloke that, if decisions were taken out of his hands, he would probably walk. Yes, Carto and Cruickshanks (who is Hughes' chief scout and his appointment) will recommend players, and Carto will help Scholes to negotiate the deal, but I am positive no player will sign for Stoke without Hughes' final say so. Are you sure? I'm getting the increasing feeling that Sobhi wasn't a Hughes signing. He's as much a Hughes signing as Brek Shea was a Pulis signing. |
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 26, 2017 17:52:42 GMT
I'd sack them all. Said it for ages. Hard to disagree with that, they certainly don't inspire confidence, do they? What I'd give for Southamptons recruitment team, including choosing manager's. Southampton spend 10's of millions of pounds on new footballers every season and have spent 3 times more than us. In their favour they have saleable assets that fund it - until recently we have no one. Saying that, how far ahead of us are they? |
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Post by jezzascfc on Apr 26, 2017 18:02:42 GMT
Are you sure? I'm getting the increasing feeling that Sobhi wasn't a Hughes signing. He's as much a Hughes signing as Brek Shea was a Pulis signing. Others may have scouted him but Hughes will have had the final say. Rather than his not being a Hughes signing, I think his treatment has more to do with Hughes' attitude to youth alluded to elsewhere - when in trouble, he reverts to tried and tested old hands to help him out. He does not trust "kiddies" (it must be a Welsh thing!). |
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 26, 2017 18:03:20 GMT
With regard to the older players I think its a mixture of worries that Hughes has developed. Originally, I think he was worried about completely breaking up a squad and a changing room by getting rid of too many players (a la QPR). This season, I think he's lost faith that his younger, shinier players can do the job they've been bought to do (rightly or wrongly) and is petrified of getting rid of the old guard in case it comes back to bite him. He reminds me of a hoarder, too worried about getting rid of anything, however useless, in case he might need it later. You have been looking in my garage!  |
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Post by GeneralFaye on Apr 26, 2017 18:08:25 GMT
Shaqiri is better than Ramadan I'm sorry to say, Hughes playing Shaq instead of him has nothing to do with "not rating Sobhi" and I'm not even a Hughes fan anymore, just think this argument is bullshit.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 26, 2017 18:11:51 GMT
Shaqiri is better than Ramadan I'm sorry to say, Hughes playing Shaq instead of him has nothing to do with "not rating Sobhi" and I'm not even a Hughes fan anymore, just think this argument is bullshit. Is Adam better than Imbula ? |
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 26, 2017 18:13:33 GMT
He's as much a Hughes signing as Brek Shea was a Pulis signing. Others may have scouted him but Hughes will have had the final say. Rather than his not being a Hughes signing, I think his treatment has more to do with Hughes' attitude to youth alluded to elsewhere - when in trouble, he reverts to tried and tested old hands to help him out. He does not trust "kiddies" (it must be a Welsh thing!). You could be on to something there, he seems more anti youth than Jurrasic Tone and that says a hell of a lot. |
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Post by djduncanjames on Apr 26, 2017 18:15:06 GMT
Everything on the football side, the buck stops with Hughes. He is the kind of bloke that, if decisions were taken out of his hands, he would probably walk. Yes, Carto and Cruickshanks (who is Hughes' chief scout and his appointment) will recommend players, and Carto will help Scholes to negotiate the deal, but I am positive no player will sign for Stoke without Hughes' final say so. Are you sure? I'm getting the increasing feeling that Sobhi wasn't a Hughes signing. Well he is not playing him, so it must be a Hughes signing. Nailed on. |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Apr 26, 2017 18:19:22 GMT
Are you sure? I'm getting the increasing feeling that Sobhi wasn't a Hughes signing. Well he is not playing him, so it must be a Hughes signing. Nailed on. He's not out on loan yet |
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 26, 2017 18:22:01 GMT
Well he is not playing him, so it must be a Hughes signing. Nailed on. He's not out on loan yet Plus he occasionally gets to appear as a sub.  |
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Post by blackpoolred on Apr 26, 2017 18:32:26 GMT
The real weakness is in recruiting strikers. We have done okay under Hughes on goalkeepers, maybe slightly negative Grant v Haugaard/Given. Okay on defenders especially when we consider what fees we have paid for them, not spectacular but solid and signing Bruno would put this area in the plus column. Mixed in midfield but Allen, Afellay, Bojan balance Imbula and also true Ireland has contributed, so not a bad hit rate but no CDM on the negative side. Good on wide players, Arnie, Shaq and Sobhi. But shocking on strikers, Giudetti, Diouf, Joselu, Bony and yet to see on Berahino. What's most worrying si we seem to ahve made the strikers we sign into worse players We have 6 full-time defenders in our squad(easily the worst in terms of numbers in the prem), arguably 5 are not good enough at this standard. 1 of our former defenders stated that they have no coaching nor do they practice any defensive drills in training. We conceded over 70 goals in the 38 games of 2016, which included a dozen or so drubbings - not sure how that constitutes as solid. As far as goalies go he risked our premiership status with Derby's 3rd choice keeper and like every other position in defence has had no viable backup for nearly an entire season. I suppose Grant could also be considered a superb bit of business by Hughes, but still a big risk given his history or lack of it. He does not do defence - I think it only entered his head to sign Bruno when he sat down to fill in the team sheet and realised he did not have 2 centre-backs to choose from  |
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Post by mrred on Apr 26, 2017 18:35:30 GMT
It's our scouting that truly baffles me. As well as the refusal to play the players that have come in under Hughes' watch. You see teams like Southampton, or even Hull now- pulling unknowns out of the continent and selling them on if the right offers come along. Then when they do, they're always able to replace them without disruption.
Us on the other hand, wager on the dogs home singings or just stump up on a fat bloke down the road that hasn't kicked a ball in 2 years. It's a complete fucking mess.
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Post by Miles Offside on Apr 26, 2017 18:36:30 GMT
Everything on the football side, the buck stops with Hughes. He is the kind of bloke that, if decisions were taken out of his hands, he would probably walk. Yes, Carto and Cruickshanks (who is Hughes' chief scout and his appointment) will recommend players, and Carto will help Scholes to negotiate the deal, but I am positive no player will sign for Stoke without Hughes' final say so. That looks right to me. When Hughes came here he inherited - Sorrenson / Begovic & Butland Wilko / Ryan / Huth / Wilson (the back four which took us to a Cup Final) Nzonzi / Whelan / Cameron / Adam Crouch and Walters And all four years younger than they are now. He just needed to add some forward midfield attacking flair. He did that, but too many of them wanted to play in the middle behind the striker. So we ended up with a load of midfield attacking talent, much of which was misused - such as Affelly or Bojan playing on the right. And I'm still not sure where Imbula or Allen (or Joselu for that matter) are supposed to fit in his preferred 4-2-3-1 system. So whoever is responsible for recruitment needs to buy plays that actually fit the system Hughes wants to play. |
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 26, 2017 18:40:27 GMT
The real weakness is in recruiting strikers. We have done okay under Hughes on goalkeepers, maybe slightly negative Grant v Haugaard/Given. Okay on defenders especially when we consider what fees we have paid for them, not spectacular but solid and signing Bruno would put this area in the plus column. Mixed in midfield but Allen, Afellay, Bojan balance Imbula and also true Ireland has contributed, so not a bad hit rate but no CDM on the negative side. Good on wide players, Arnie, Shaq and Sobhi. But shocking on strikers, Giudetti, Diouf, Joselu, Bony and yet to see on Berahino. What's most worrying si we seem to ahve made the strikers we sign into worse players We have 6 full-time defenders in our squad(easily the worst in terms of numbers in the prem), arguably 5 are not good enough at this standard. 1 of our former defenders stated that they have no coaching nor do they practice any defensive drills in training. We conceded over 70 goals in the 38 games of 2016, which included a dozen or so drubbings - not sure how that constitutes as solid. As far as goalies go he risked our premiership status with Derby's 3rd choice keeper and like every other position in defence has had no viable backup for nearly an entire season. I suppose Grant could also be considered a superb bit of business by Hughes, but still a big risk given his history or lack of it. He does not do defence - I think it only entered his head to sign Bruno when he sat down to fill in the team sheet and realised he did not have 2 centre-backs to choose from Even though he had sent Wolfy out on loan oh sorry to have his ear infection treated in Germany. |
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 26, 2017 18:43:32 GMT
Everything on the football side, the buck stops with Hughes. He is the kind of bloke that, if decisions were taken out of his hands, he would probably walk. Yes, Carto and Cruickshanks (who is Hughes' chief scout and his appointment) will recommend players, and Carto will help Scholes to negotiate the deal, but I am positive no player will sign for Stoke without Hughes' final say so. That looks right to me. When Hughes came here he inherited - Sorrenson / Begovic & Butland Wilko / Ryan / Huth / Wilson (the back four which took us to a Cup Final) Nzonzi / Whelan / Cameron / Adam Crouch and Walters And all four years younger than they are now. He just needed to add some forward midfield attacking flair. He did that, but too many of them wanted to play in the middle behind the striker. So we ended up with a load of midfield attacking talent, much of which was misused - such as Affelly or Bojan playing on the right. And I'm still not sure where Imbula or Allen (or Joselu for that matter) are supposed to fit in his preferred 4-2-3-1 system. So whoever is responsible for recruitment needs to buy plays that actually fit the system Hughes wants to play.  in a nutshell scarily seven of the players he inherited are still regular starters despite all the so called talent bought into the club under Hughes. |
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Apr 26, 2017 19:04:09 GMT
Hard to disagree with that, they certainly don't inspire confidence, do they? What I'd give for Southamptons recruitment team, including choosing manager's. Southampton spend 10's of millions of pounds on new footballers every season and have spent 3 times more than us. In their favour they have saleable assets that fund it - until recently we have no one. Saying that, how far ahead of us are they? Yes they spend millions, but they seem to recoup a lot more in sales. Happy for anyone to confirm their net spend over the last five or so years. In terms of recruitment they are light years ahead. Including appointing managers regularly who provide entertaining effective football on a regular basis, not twice a season. Despite having a completed stadium they are planning for massive investment to revamp St Mary's. If we are serious about competing with the Southampton and Evertons of this world for top 8 spots we have to up our game. It not all about how much you spend but the value for money you get from the money you spend. All in all we are pretty wank when it come to getting value for money. |
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Apr 26, 2017 19:05:40 GMT
I think most clubs have failed signings its just that ours have been our most expensive/high profile signings and as a club we can't afford these fuck ups.
Going back to loads of other previous threads, I don't necessarily think its the choice of signings anymore, it's their implementation into the team and that is firmly at the hands of the management team. I don't think the players have the slightest idea what the project is anymore so how the hell do they motivate themselves?
I agree with the comment about Hughes starting to doubt himself and reaching for the old guard. He knows that they are just about good enough to squeeze out results but that will never lead to progression.
Too many systems, too many injuries and too many players not playing in the positions they were bought for. I'm sure Diouf never had plans to be a fucking right back although I give the lad his due, he works his bollocks off at it when he gets the chance and is easily on par with those who specialize in that position for us.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Apr 26, 2017 19:06:39 GMT
Shaqiri is better than Ramadan I'm sorry to say, Hughes playing Shaq instead of him has nothing to do with "not rating Sobhi" and I'm not even a Hughes fan anymore, just think this argument is bullshit. Is Adam better than Imbula ? I think anyone who has bothered to read my posts regarding Imbula for the past few weeks will know how I feel about this subject. Imbula would be in my team every week and I wouldn't play Adam or Whelan again... anyway, what's that got to do with Ramadan? |
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Post by generationex on Apr 27, 2017 0:14:47 GMT
That looks right to me. When Hughes came here he inherited - Sorrenson / Begovic & Butland Wilko / Ryan / Huth / Wilson (the back four which took us to a Cup Final) Nzonzi / Whelan / Cameron / Adam Crouch and Walters And all four years younger than they are now. He just needed to add some forward midfield attacking flair. He did that, but too many of them wanted to play in the middle behind the striker. So we ended up with a load of midfield attacking talent, much of which was misused - such as Affelly or Bojan playing on the right. And I'm still not sure where Imbula or Allen (or Joselu for that matter) are supposed to fit in his preferred 4-2-3-1 system. So whoever is responsible for recruitment needs to buy plays that actually fit the system Hughes wants to play. in a nutshell scarily seven of the players he inherited are still regular starters despite all the so called talent bought into the club under Hughes. Scarily, if we had kept the players we would have liked - Zonz, Huth and Bego - it would be 10! |
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in a nutshell scarily seven of the players he inherited are still regular starters despite all the so called talent bought into the club under Hughes.
