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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 20, 2017 14:45:48 GMT
So lets sum this upConservatives against the environment! Against Pensioners! Against debating the election! Against Kids getting free school meals! Against normal schools! Against anyone on benefits! Against themselves! Against the human rights act! Against being open and transparent!So why the F*** are people thinking of voting these idiots in!!You cant trust the Tories! My name isn't mark and my opinions are someone else's I'm mentally 7 yrs old and posted shite on here for a lot longer (for those who question who I am) all of this matters because I'm a first rate poser!!
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 20, 2017 14:53:52 GMT
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josh
Academy Starlet
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Posts: 102
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Post by josh on May 20, 2017 14:56:44 GMT
Isn't the grant also to help maintain parts of the network (stations, sidings, facilities etc) the TOC's own or manage ? There's a document called Rail Finance 2015-16 annual statistical review by the ORR which you can download and read if interested that shows the figures but the overall picture is that the TOC's are net contributors of money in total, a few of the regional operators scotrail, merseyrail etc. Southern are probably lucky that it was never envisaged such a concerted and unneccesary series of strikes was envisaged and generally the trend of rail usage is always upwards so it was never expected passenger numbers could ever fall by so much. My point on track access is that the government charges it to the franchise who effectively charge it to the customer plus Mark up via ticket prices and the franchise then gives back some back to the government as profit. Easiest way to lower prices stop the circular charging and then lower ticket prices and adjust revenue / profit sharing accordingly. The problem with governments trying to run things at a profit is it very quickly stops being profitable or it starts to be for the profit of the people working there. Not sure how you come to that conclusion. From the doc you referenced, we pay private companies £4.8bn (2015-16) to run and operate our railway. From that they give extra profit back of £817m (2015-16). Great! Except that they only have to give 50% of their extra profit back. So they actually made an extra £1.6bn on top of their 3% profit. So we could pay just £3.2bn for the exact same service and still make a 3% profit for the treasury. No expensive buyout of rolling stock or assets. That's just running it as it is now but without the private company. A saving of £1.6bn which could be going to the NHS, education or even actually put back in to the railway rather than private companies and rich people's pockets via the £222m dividend paid to them every year. Do you not agree?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 20, 2017 15:02:27 GMT
As it says on Twitter - "To which four million UKIP voters in the marginals are going "Yeah, OK then."
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Post by essexstokey on May 20, 2017 15:15:19 GMT
So lets sum this upConservatives against the environment! Against Pensioners! Against debating the election! Against Kids getting free school meals! Against normal schools! Against anyone on benefits! Against themselves! Against the human rights act! Against being open and transparent!So why the F*** are people thinking of voting these idiots in!!You cant trust the Tories! My name isn't mark and my opinions are someone else's I'm mentally 7 yrs old and posted shite on here for a lot longer (for those who question who I am) all of this matters because I'm a first rate poser!!
No Roger you are an arrogant tosser who only thinks about himself and not those more vulnerable in society like most conservatives you are up your own arse and only out for number one Unlike you I have a free mind and don't follow aimlessly like a sheep unlike you, you must be of so low intellect that you believe anything that the manipulated tory press tell you. Roger there are only a few posers on here and you seem to be the biggest of the lot go back and crawl under whichever stone you crawled from under. I also agree with you that your mental age is that of a 7 year olds and you post a load of crap
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Post by harryburrows on May 20, 2017 15:16:03 GMT
As it says on Twitter - "To which four million UKIP voters in the marginals are going "Yeah, OK then." If only that were true
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Post by salopstick on May 20, 2017 15:36:19 GMT
So lets sum this upConservatives against the environment! Against Pensioners! Against debating the election! Against Kids getting free school meals! Against normal schools! Against anyone on benefits! Against themselves! Against the human rights act! Against being open and transparent!So why the F*** are people thinking of voting these idiots in!!You cant trust the Tories! Easy because not enough people like Corbyn, trust him to do better. They don't trust him to lead the country. And that's just his party MPs Most of the electorate agree with them Easy as that
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Post by trickydicky73 on May 20, 2017 15:48:18 GMT
As it says on Twitter - "To which four million UKIP voters in the marginals are going "Yeah, OK then." If only that were true I detect a fit up. May has virtually guaranteed losing pensioners' votes with this manifesto and I can see the result being closer than it would have been. Don't forget she was a Remainer in the first place. I don't think Brexit will be anything like what was promised. 80% of MP's were against it, and despite their public utterances, if a chance to overturn it came, they would take it.
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Post by felonious on May 20, 2017 15:59:26 GMT
As it says on Twitter - "To which four million UKIP voters in the marginals are going "Yeah, OK then." That's what you get when all the campaign team are high on cannabis.
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Post by felonious on May 20, 2017 16:02:10 GMT
My name isn't mark and my opinions are someone else's I'm mentally 7 yrs old and posted shite on here for a lot longer (for those who question who I am) all of this matters because I'm a first rate poser!!
No Roger you are an arrogant tosser who only thinks about himself and not those more vulnerable in society like most conservatives you are up your own arse and only out for number one Unlike you I have a free mind and don't follow aimlessly like a sheep unlike you, you must be of so low intellect that you believe anything that the manipulated tory press tell you. Roger there are only a few posers on here and you seem to be the biggest of the lot go back and crawl under whichever stone you crawled from under. I also agree with you that your mental age is that of a 7 year olds and you post a load of crap Thank you for posting this in normal type. It is appreciated
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Post by felonious on May 20, 2017 16:06:25 GMT
Labour minister defends it's Trident policy against, err Labour minster.
But shadow defence secretary Nia Griffith told BBC Newsnight: "With all due respect, Emily is not the shadow defence secretary. I am."
Not great is it?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39986835
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Post by essexstokey on May 20, 2017 16:10:16 GMT
So lets sum this upConservatives against the environment! Against Pensioners! Against debating the election! Against Kids getting free school meals! Against normal schools! Against anyone on benefits! Against themselves! Against the human rights act! Against being open and transparent!So why the F*** are people thinking of voting these idiots in!!You cant trust the Tories! Easy because not enough people like Corbyn, trust him to do better. They don't trust him to lead the country. And that's just his party MPs Most of the electorate agree with them Easy as that It should not matter who is leading a party if the polices are good and the other party are so hell bent on self enrichment and looking after just the rich at the detriment of other people as I keep on saying you cant trust the Tories they are not for the majority of people and any working class or even middle class person who believes there lies manipulation and nastiness must be idiots. They are the party of the rich and snobs for the rich. Don't be fooled by them!
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Post by manmarking on May 20, 2017 16:10:22 GMT
My name isn't mark and my opinions are someone else's I'm mentally 7 yrs old and posted shite on here for a lot longer (for those who question who I am) all of this matters because I'm a first rate poser!!
No Roger you are an arrogant tosser who only thinks about himself and not those more vulnerable in society like most conservatives you are up your own arse and only out for number one Unlike you I have a free mind and don't follow aimlessly like a sheep unlike you, you must be of so low intellect that you believe anything that the manipulated tory press tell you. Roger there are only a few posers on here and you seem to be the biggest of the lot go back and crawl under whichever stone you crawled from under. I also agree with you that your mental age is that of a 7 year olds and you post a load of crap The Tories don't like dissent, mate. At a national level you can see it in today's Internet manifesto (amongst myriad other policies), and at a local level you can see it in old Todger, bless him ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) He only comes on here so he can bask in a right-wing echo chamber. A safe place where other people will lap up his intolerance, flashes of racism and general ill-thought-out dogmatic claptrap. When someone comes along and disturbs that serenity, he responds in the only way he knows how. By making up a load of nonsense about multiple accounts. As sad as it is, he's not clued-up or thick-skinned enough to accept that more than one person in the entire world disagrees with him. And he's not bright enough to debate anyone on the issues. Your profile of him is about right though ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) (And do keep up the dissent - it's much needed ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/KYqg3pYeaerc5lD_P7BR.gif) )
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Post by essexstokey on May 20, 2017 16:15:10 GMT
Labour minister defends it's Trident policy against, err Labour minster.
But shadow defence secretary Nia Griffith told BBC Newsnight: "With all due respect, Emily is not the shadow defence secretary. I am."
Not great is it?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39986835
No its the same as Boris going against the PM The Scottish Tories going against there manifesto and George Osborn doing the same At least there is a debate and with Labour the policies are recommended and debated at national conference has that even been the case with the Tories??
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Post by salopstick on May 20, 2017 16:17:14 GMT
Labour minister defends it's Trident policy against, err Labour minster.
But shadow defence secretary Nia Griffith told BBC Newsnight: "With all due respect, Emily is not the shadow defence secretary. I am."
Not great is it?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39986835
No its the same as Boris going against the PM The Scottish Tories going against there manifesto and George Osborn doing the same At least there is a debate and with Labour the policies are recommended and debated at national conference has that even been the case with the Tories?? I thought they already had the debate and decided on trident. Emily probably wasn't there
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Post by felonious on May 20, 2017 16:20:46 GMT
No its the same as Boris going against the PM The Scottish Tories going against there manifesto and George Osborn doing the same At least there is a debate and with Labour the policies are recommended and debated at national conference has that even been the case with the Tories?? I thought they already had the debate and decided on trident. Emily probably wasn't there Nah she was there, at least that's what Nia was saying on Newsnight. Unless you mean not there as in not all there
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Post by The Drunken Communist on May 20, 2017 16:22:28 GMT
So lets sum this upConservatives against the environment! Against Pensioners! Against debating the election! Against Kids getting free school meals! Against normal schools! Against anyone on benefits! Against themselves! Against the human rights act! Against being open and transparent!So why the F*** are people thinking of voting these idiots in!!You cant trust the Tories! Essex, I mean no offence by this (Although nodoubt you'll find some to take!) but... I hate the Tories as much as the next 56 genders do, but seriously mate you're coming across like some spoilt, temper trantum throwing brat with your posts on this thread. It's people like you that have made myself, and millions of others like me turn away from the Labour party in recent years. I've got no-one to vote for in this election. I'd never vote Tory (So it doesn't matter how much shit FYD, Rog & the gang post) but I really, really, really want to see a strong Labour party that stands up for the common British man, rather than pandering to some bullshit far-left, student SJW bullshit. (And I get the feeling that plenty of others on here are the same. People like Fraise, Carps, BigJohn, Tricky etc.. Would all love to vote for Labour if they'd just listen to what we're saying) Seriously, reading posts from you & Nick on this thread are quite frankly embarrassing. Labour really need to ditch pandering to what a bunch of SJW students think is best for the world and instead get back to looking after the common British man/woman. (It's even more worrying that Nick is semingly an old fella who should know much better)
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Post by bathstoke on May 20, 2017 16:41:14 GMT
As it says on Twitter - "To which four million UKIP voters in the marginals are going "Yeah, OK then." I'm thinking, Who is more insulted with that image, her or him!?!
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Post by mtrstudent on May 20, 2017 16:55:27 GMT
I'm unsure on this....What does making pensioners with more than 100k actually mean? Does this mean my children will not inherit my house? Does it mean I've bought a house for fuck all? It looks like the £100k includes house value if you go into a home, and that the house can sold off after death to back-pay for the care. But we desperately need something like this. The older generations got cheaper houses, paid less for pensions and social care etc while they were working, burnt £330 bn in North Sea oil and gas taxes, shut down most house building and get years of pension triple locks. We get cuts to working age benefits, a strained NHS, sky high rents and £30-40k student debt that makes it much, much harder to buy a house in the first place. It's time the burden was shared more.
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Post by harryburrows on May 20, 2017 17:00:33 GMT
I detect a fit up. May has virtually guaranteed losing pensioners' votes with this manifesto and I can see the result being closer than it would have been. Don't forget she was a Remainer in the first place. I don't think Brexit will be anything like what was promised. 80% of MP's were against it, and despite their public utterances, if a chance to overturn it came, they would take it. I think may is gambling on the fact that she has no viable opposition and no matter how unpopular her manifesto pledges are it would still not get corbyn into number 10 . One thing people continue to overlook is unless we decide to give way on some of the 4 freedoms we cannot be members o the single market . Even if we gain tariff free access to the single market I'm sure it will be with conditions attached i.e. Freedom of movement and all the social legislation that goes with it . As is the case in Norway and swissland
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Post by salopstick on May 20, 2017 17:03:34 GMT
I'm unsure on this....What does making pensioners with more than 100k actually mean? Does this mean my children will not inherit my house? Does it mean I've bought a house for fuck all? It looks like the £100k includes house value if you go into a home, and that the house can sold off after death to back-pay for the care. But we desperately need something like this. The older generations got cheaper houses, paid less for pensions and social care etc while they were working, burnt £330 bn in North Sea oil and gas taxes, shut down most house building and get years of pension triple locks. We get cuts to working age benefits, a strained NHS, sky high rents and £30-40k student debt that makes it much, much harder to buy a house in the first place. It's time the burden was shared more. I agree but to some it's the tories screwing the pensioners If your house sells for 200k the government only take the actual cost of care. If that cost was 150k they have to give the estate 100k So if it happened to me my two kids are guaranteed at least £50k out of my house sale regardless how much my care costs. Nothing wrong with that imo The triple lock is bollocks. By all means give the highest of the index rate or inflation but to promise 2.5% if the other two are lower isn't fair on those taking 1% or less pay rises The govt have to budget for rich pensioners like John Major and Alan sugar winter fuel of course it should be means tested. Give it to the guys who need it not those who dont
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Post by followyoudown on May 20, 2017 17:07:32 GMT
Isn't the grant also to help maintain parts of the network (stations, sidings, facilities etc) the TOC's own or manage ? There's a document called Rail Finance 2015-16 annual statistical review by the ORR which you can download and read if interested that shows the figures but the overall picture is that the TOC's are net contributors of money in total, a few of the regional operators scotrail, merseyrail etc. Southern are probably lucky that it was never envisaged such a concerted and unneccesary series of strikes was envisaged and generally the trend of rail usage is always upwards so it was never expected passenger numbers could ever fall by so much. My point on track access is that the government charges it to the franchise who effectively charge it to the customer plus Mark up via ticket prices and the franchise then gives back some back to the government as profit. Easiest way to lower prices stop the circular charging and then lower ticket prices and adjust revenue / profit sharing accordingly. The problem with governments trying to run things at a profit is it very quickly stops being profitable or it starts to be for the profit of the people working there. Not sure how you come to that conclusion. From the doc you referenced, we pay private companies £4.8bn (2015-16) to run and operate our railway. From that they give extra profit back of £817m (2015-16). Great! Except that they only have to give 50% of their extra profit back. So they actually made an extra £1.6bn on top of their 3% profit. So we could pay just £3.2bn for the exact same service and still make a 3% profit for the treasury. No expensive buyout of rolling stock or assets. That's just running it as it is now but without the private company. A saving of £1.6bn which could be going to the NHS, education or even actually put back in to the railway rather than private companies and rich people's pockets via the £222m dividend paid to them every year. Do you not agree? That's not how I read the chart the £4.8 billion is made up of £4.0 billion Network rail £1.6 billion for Crossrail / HS2 and other - £0.8 billion from the TOC's The £817m is not extra profits either it's a combination of fixed franchise premiums and there may be some smaller element of profit sharing but as an example I gave earlier Virgin paid £300 odd million in premiums and made £100 odd million over 3 years, so the maths doesn't work either. Sure if the government could manage everything just as well they could in theory be extra money but past history of any government suggests that would be very very unlikely.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on May 20, 2017 17:08:02 GMT
My name isn't mark and my opinions are someone else's I'm mentally 7 yrs old and posted shite on here for a lot longer (for those who question who I am) all of this matters because I'm a first rate poser!!
No Roger you are an arrogant tosser who only thinks about himself and not those more vulnerable in society like most conservatives you are up your own arse and only out for number one Unlike you I have a free mind and don't follow aimlessly like a sheep unlike you, you must be of so low intellect that you believe anything that the manipulated tory press tell you. Roger there are only a few posers on here and you seem to be the biggest of the lot go back and crawl under whichever stone you crawled from under. I also agree with you that your mental age is that of a 7 year olds and you post a load of crap
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Post by mtrstudent on May 20, 2017 17:11:02 GMT
I agree but to some it's the tories screwing the pensioners If your house sells for 200k the government only take the actual cost of care. If that cost was 150k they have to give the estate 100k So if it happened to me my two kids are guaranteed at least £50k out of my house sale regardless how much my care costs. Nothing wrong with that imo We're in a ton of shit with the deficit & debt so we have to choose who pays for what. I think allowing kids to inherit £100k is a fair cut off and if we protected more than that, I bet it would be today's workers being made to pay again. I think this is going to be good for the country and I bet May wouldn't gamble on it if she wasn't basically guaranteed a huge majority. That shows statesmanship, so long as the commons don't pussy out of it.
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Post by salopstick on May 20, 2017 17:19:36 GMT
I agree but to some it's the tories screwing the pensioners If your house sells for 200k the government only take the actual cost of care. If that cost was 150k they have to give the estate 100k So if it happened to me my two kids are guaranteed at least £50k out of my house sale regardless how much my care costs. Nothing wrong with that imo We're in a ton of shit with the deficit & debt so we have to choose who pays for what. I think allowing kids to inherit £100k is a fair cut off and if we protected more than that, I bet it would be today's workers being made to pay again. I think this is going to be good for the country and I bet May wouldn't gamble on it if she wasn't basically guaranteed a huge majority. That shows statesmanship, so long as the commons don't pussy out of it. However I agree with the principle of uni fees
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Post by followyoudown on May 20, 2017 17:21:12 GMT
It looks like the £100k includes house value if you go into a home, and that the house can sold off after death to back-pay for the care. But we desperately need something like this. The older generations got cheaper houses, paid less for pensions and social care etc while they were working, burnt £330 bn in North Sea oil and gas taxes, shut down most house building and get years of pension triple locks. We get cuts to working age benefits, a strained NHS, sky high rents and £30-40k student debt that makes it much, much harder to buy a house in the first place. It's time the burden was shared more. I agree but to some it's the tories screwing the pensioners If your house sells for 200k the government only take the actual cost of care. If that cost was 150k they have to give the estate 100k So if it happened to me my two kids are guaranteed at least £50k out of my house sale regardless how much my care costs. Nothing wrong with that imo Yes the same people who had no problem voting Labour when means testing winter fuel payments was part of their 2015 manifesto and Labour wanting / planning to put up inheritance tax. I'm sure it will be tinkered with but it's moving the right way towards a long term solution.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 17:25:20 GMT
As it says on Twitter - "To which four million UKIP voters in the marginals are going "Yeah, OK then." If only that were true I'd fuck her
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Post by followyoudown on May 20, 2017 17:25:57 GMT
No Roger you are an arrogant tosser who only thinks about himself and not those more vulnerable in society like most conservatives you are up your own arse and only out for number one Unlike you I have a free mind and don't follow aimlessly like a sheep unlike you, you must be of so low intellect that you believe anything that the manipulated tory press tell you. Roger there are only a few posers on here and you seem to be the biggest of the lot go back and crawl under whichever stone you crawled from under. I also agree with you that your mental age is that of a 7 year olds and you post a load of crap Someone has come a long way from complaining to admin about abuse I can confirm Essex' s mind is free, well you wouldn't pay for it would you ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/0m0lbCuTEBzaRn6f8QaM.gif)
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Post by mtrstudent on May 20, 2017 17:27:07 GMT
However I agree with the principle of uni fees I'd rather have free uni, more for the NHS, £50 mil a year for Stoke to spend on transfer fees and free beer for everyone. But we're in the shit so I'm willing to compromise on some of those things. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by harryburrows on May 20, 2017 17:27:35 GMT
I agree but to some it's the tories screwing the pensioners If your house sells for 200k the government only take the actual cost of care. If that cost was 150k they have to give the estate 100k So if it happened to me my two kids are guaranteed at least £50k out of my house sale regardless how much my care costs. Nothing wrong with that imo We're in a ton of shit with the deficit & debt so we have to choose who pays for what. I think allowing kids to inherit £100k is a fair cut off and if we protected more than that, I bet it would be today's workers being made to pay again. I think this is going to be good for the country and I bet May wouldn't gamble on it if she wasn't basically guaranteed a huge majority. That shows statesmanship, so long as the commons don't pussy out of it. The deficit should be under control by the end of the next parliament , the debt is a longer term problem . If we do nothing else for our kids getting rid of the debt should be our priority . The interest alone is £65 billion PA
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