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Post by markytcd on Mar 26, 2017 17:06:51 GMT
Probably answered elsewhere but did we get compensation for Butland and if so what does it entail?
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Post by djduncanjames on Mar 26, 2017 17:15:58 GMT
I think they paid his wages up to that Reading match he pulled out of at the last second
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 26, 2017 17:18:37 GMT
We got compensation up to August when it was thought that he was fit again. When he broke down before the Boro game at the start of the season that didn't count as part of the original injury according to the FA - so we have had no compo since then.
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Post by markytcd on Mar 26, 2017 18:02:22 GMT
Thx for the answers.
The Comp seems annoyingly lacklustre.
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Post by nott1 on Mar 26, 2017 18:04:16 GMT
We lost a lot of money!
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Post by markytcd on Mar 26, 2017 18:16:12 GMT
The cynical side of me thinks the Man Us of the world would have been given a better settlement. |
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Post by samba :) on Mar 26, 2017 18:16:32 GMT
When you take into account the millions spent on his replacement and his recovery |
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Post by slother on Mar 26, 2017 21:05:45 GMT
Presumably a professional football club insures its players against injury?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 26, 2017 22:51:03 GMT
Presumably a professional football club insures its players against injury? Against career ending injury maybe but the premiums would be ridiculously high for normal injuries. How much premium would you ask to insure a player where the payout even at Stoke could be £75k per week? In any case there should be no need to insure a player when he is on England duty as his wages are supposed to be covered by the FA if he is injured. The FA in this case said he was only covered to August when he was briefly in full training. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 26, 2017 23:13:08 GMT
Presumably a professional football club insures its players against injury? Against career ending injury maybe but the premiums would be ridiculously high for normal injuries. How much premium would you ask to insure a player where the payout even at Stoke could be £75k per week? In any case there should be no need to insure a player when he is on England duty as his wages are supposed to be covered by the FA if he is injured. The FA in this case said he was only covered to August when he was briefly in full training. If he was in full training, he was fit surely? |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 26, 2017 23:52:08 GMT
Against career ending injury maybe but the premiums would be ridiculously high for normal injuries. How much premium would you ask to insure a player where the payout even at Stoke could be £75k per week? In any case there should be no need to insure a player when he is on England duty as his wages are supposed to be covered by the FA if he is injured. The FA in this case said he was only covered to August when he was briefly in full training. If he was in full training, he was fit surely? Then they found a hairline fracture which earlier scans had missed. Don't you read news on Stoke players - it was all over the media. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 26, 2017 23:55:02 GMT
If he was in full training, he was fit surely? Then they found a hairline fracture which earlier scans had missed. Don'the you read news on Stoke players - it was all over the media. Of course I read that. God bless the medical folks we use. (Rolls eyes) But I can see why the FA stopped it and didn't start repaying it. We all thought he was fully fit until virtually the first day of the season after he played a few friendlies. They're not in the wrong here. This is down to the medical staff we trusted and their negligence. |
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Post by markytcd on Mar 27, 2017 8:06:33 GMT
Then they found a hairline fracture which earlier scans had missed. Don'the you read news on Stoke players - it was all over the media. Of course I read that. God bless the medical folks we use. (Rolls eyes) But I can see why the FA stopped it and didn't start repaying it. We all thought he was fully fit until virtually the first day of the season after he played a few friendlies. They're not in the wrong here. This is down to the medical staff we trusted and their negligence. Is this the curse of Demba Ba all over again? |
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Post by Gods on Mar 27, 2017 8:40:46 GMT
If he was in full training, he was fit surely? Then they found a hairline fracture which earlier scans had missed. Don't you read news on Stoke players - it was all over the media. I still don't quite get it. If you had health insurance with BUPA say and you injured your ankle and they scanned it and carried out some kind of repair but it later transpired that a hairline fracture had been missed in the original scan which required further attention they wouldn't tell you to go take a hike. I appreciate this isn't private health insurance in the traditional sense but it would be interesting to see how the FA policy on this is worded. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 27, 2017 9:22:29 GMT
Then they found a hairline fracture which earlier scans had missed. Don't you read news on Stoke players - it was all over the media. I still don't quite get it. If you had health insurance with BUPA say and you injured your ankle and they scanned it and carried out some kind of repair but it later transpired that a hairline fracture had been missed in the original scan which required further attention they wouldn't tell you to go take a hike. I appreciate this isn't private health insurance in the traditional sense but it would be interesting to see how the FA policy on this is worded. I see where you're coming from but essentially (you'd imagine) it was doing the scanning or using people we use to do it. So I guess in your scenario it'd be like having insurance with BUPA and then getting the NHS to scan it and them missing it. It's not really the fault of BUPA is it? That would be my argument if I was in the FA anyway. Your negligence has prolonged this, why should we foot the bill? |
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Post by Gods on Mar 27, 2017 9:51:30 GMT
I still don't quite get it. If you had health insurance with BUPA say and you injured your ankle and they scanned it and carried out some kind of repair but it later transpired that a hairline fracture had been missed in the original scan which required further attention they wouldn't tell you to go take a hike. I appreciate this isn't private health insurance in the traditional sense but it would be interesting to see how the FA policy on this is worded. I see where you're coming from but essentially (you'd imagine) it was doing the scanning or using people we use to do it. So I guess in your scenario it'd be like having insurance with BUPA and then getting the NHS to scan it and them missing it. It's not really the fault of BUPA is it? That would be my argument if I was in the FA anyway. Your negligence has prolonged this, why should we foot the bill? Yes you make a good point and I guess that is the thrust of the FA argument. You'd think the FA might have some approved medics whereby if you work with them rather than appointing your own preferred supplier you are in some way covered against this kind of eventuality but I presume that would make them in effect an "Insurer" and that is simply and probably rightly not where the FA want to be, they would need underwriters and have to comply to miles or regulation when they should be getting on with governing football. I'm done on this one, they have us by the short and curlies! |
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 27, 2017 10:00:51 GMT
My guess is the FA use health insurance, just like any other employer. The amount of cover you get depends on what the contract says. You can have unlimited cover if you are prepared to pay the premiums (or is that premia?), but I expect they will have caps, exclusions, excesses, etc. to keep down the premium. One restriction/cap could be how much compensation you can claim for any individual injury, and with the wages top professional footballers are on, its possible Butland reached it - just speculation.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 27, 2017 11:05:50 GMT
I still don't quite get it. If you had health insurance with BUPA say and you injured your ankle and they scanned it and carried out some kind of repair but it later transpired that a hairline fracture had been missed in the original scan which required further attention they wouldn't tell you to go take a hike. I appreciate this isn't private health insurance in the traditional sense but it would be interesting to see how the FA policy on this is worded. I see where you're coming from but essentially (you'd imagine) it was doing the scanning or using people we use to do it. So I guess in your scenario it'd be like having insurance with BUPA and then getting the NHS to scan it and them missing it. It's not really the fault of BUPA is it? That would be my argument if I was in the FA anyway. Your negligence has prolonged this, why should we foot the bill? If the FA were paying hefty compensation in the form of Butland's wages, you'd assume that England's/FA's medical people would have been involved in the original diagnosis as well would you not? |
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Post by Gods on Mar 27, 2017 11:36:31 GMT
I see where you're coming from but essentially (you'd imagine) it was doing the scanning or using people we use to do it. So I guess in your scenario it'd be like having insurance with BUPA and then getting the NHS to scan it and them missing it. It's not really the fault of BUPA is it? That would be my argument if I was in the FA anyway. Your negligence has prolonged this, why should we foot the bill? If the FA were paying hefty compensation in the form of Butland's wages, you'd assume that England's/FA's medical people would have been involved in the original diagnosis as well would you not? Yes like an 'assessor' that is in the pay of the insurance company being asked to cough up for flood damage on your house. It is for sure a dark and murky area when the Football Association get in the business of insuring footballers against injury when in their control, I bet it was not a road they wished to go down but if they did not they realised they would find clubs increasingly reluctant to release players for international duty. Wonder how it all works in other countries? |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 27, 2017 12:13:01 GMT
If the FA were paying hefty compensation in the form of Butland's wages, you'd assume that England's/FA's medical people would have been involved in the original diagnosis as well would you not? Yes like an 'assessor' that is in the pay of the insurance company being asked to cough up for flood damage on your house. It is for sure a dark and murky area when the Football Association get in the business of insuring footballers against injury when in their control, I bet it was not a road they wished to go down but if they did not they realised they would find clubs increasingly reluctant to release players for international duty. Wonder how it all works in other countries? I wonder how many countries cope with the fact that their players play in much richer countries in footballing terms? Take a Caribbean country or African or South American countries - I'm sure they would have few problems in paying the wages of a player injured on international duty if the player normally played in his own country. But if he plays in the English Premier League, a week's wages might be the equivalent of a year's wages were he to be playing in his own country!  |
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Post by Gods on Mar 27, 2017 12:18:24 GMT
Yes like an 'assessor' that is in the pay of the insurance company being asked to cough up for flood damage on your house. It is for sure a dark and murky area when the Football Association get in the business of insuring footballers against injury when in their control, I bet it was not a road they wished to go down but if they did not they realised they would find clubs increasingly reluctant to release players for international duty. Wonder how it all works in other countries? I wonder how many countries cope with the fact that their players play in much richer countries in footballing terms? Take a Caribbean country or African or South American countries - I'm sure they would have few problems in paying the wages of a player injured on international duty if the player normally played in his own country. But if he plays in the English Premier League, a week's wages might be the equivalent of a year's wages were he to be playing in his own country! Yes, I would guess there are some countries Football Associations for whom a year of Premier League wages for 1 player would exceed their entire country budget for everything! |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 27, 2017 17:16:21 GMT
I see where you're coming from but essentially (you'd imagine) it was doing the scanning or using people we use to do it. So I guess in your scenario it'd be like having insurance with BUPA and then getting the NHS to scan it and them missing it. It's not really the fault of BUPA is it? That would be my argument if I was in the FA anyway. Your negligence has prolonged this, why should we foot the bill? If the FA were paying hefty compensation in the form of Butland's wages, you'd assume that England's/FA's medical people would have been involved in the original diagnosis as well would you not? You would. But let's say we used the people we use for these scans and things and then the data was sent to the FA completely missing the fracture then I still think that blame is with the people we have employed. But these are a lot of ifs buts and maybes from us all. We thought he was fit though so I can see why the FA said no more. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2017 17:42:38 GMT
If the FA were paying hefty compensation in the form of Butland's wages, you'd assume that England's/FA's medical people would have been involved in the original diagnosis as well would you not? You would. But let's say we used the people we use for these scans and things and then the data was sent to the FA completely missing the fracture then I still think that blame is with the people we have employed. But these are a lot of ifs buts and maybes from us all. We thought he was fit though so I can see why the FA said no more. Bayern I know you like to chip in on every thread and I know you're an expert on absolutely everything but you know absolutely nothing about this. You've used words like negligence and blame and phrases such as completely missing the fracture. Do you know anything about MRI? Do you know anything about imaging? Do you know how stress fractures manifest themselves? Do you have any sort of medical or imaging degree? No thought not. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 27, 2017 17:45:22 GMT
You would. But let's say we used the people we use for these scans and things and then the data was sent to the FA completely missing the fracture then I still think that blame is with the people we have employed. But these are a lot of ifs buts and maybes from us all. We thought he was fit though so I can see why the FA said no more. Bayern I know you like to chip in on every thread and I know you're an expert on absolutely everything but you know absolutely nothing about this. You've used words like negligence and blame and phrases such as completely missing the fracture. Do you know anything about MRI? Do you know anything about imaging? Do you know how stress fractures manifest themselves? Do you have any sort of medical or imaging degree? No thought not. You've quoted a posted where I've just said that! 😂😂😂 |
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 27, 2017 17:53:20 GMT
You would. But let's say we used the people we use for these scans and things and then the data was sent to the FA completely missing the fracture then I still think that blame is with the people we have employed. But these are a lot of ifs buts and maybes from us all. We thought he was fit though so I can see why the FA said no more. Bayern I know you like to chip in on every thread and I know you're an expert on absolutely everything but you know absolutely nothing about this. You've used words like negligence and blame and phrases such as completely missing the fracture. Do you know anything about MRI? Do you know anything about imaging? Do you know how stress fractures manifest themselves? Do you have any sort of medical or imaging degree? No thought not. I know for a fact that it was missed and it was the fault of Stoke City. The people they used missed similar things on other players (not Stoke players) I'm not saying anything more. |
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 27, 2017 17:54:27 GMT
Yes like an 'assessor' that is in the pay of the insurance company being asked to cough up for flood damage on your house. It is for sure a dark and murky area when the Football Association get in the business of insuring footballers against injury when in their control, I bet it was not a road they wished to go down but if they did not they realised they would find clubs increasingly reluctant to release players for international duty. Wonder how it all works in other countries? I wonder how many countries cope with the fact that their players play in much richer countries in footballing terms? Take a Caribbean country or African or South American countries - I'm sure they would have few problems in paying the wages of a player injured on international duty if the player normally played in his own country. But if he plays in the English Premier League, a week's wages might be the equivalent of a year's wages were he to be playing in his own country! I doubt this is an internationally-regulated thing though is it? Probably just an FA policy thing, maybe to keep the PL onside? Does anyone think we would be getting compensated by the Senegal or Egyptian FA if Mame or Ramadan got injured? (And that's before we even think about players from truly under-developed nations like Adam, Walters and Allen) |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 27, 2017 18:09:16 GMT
Bayern I know you like to chip in on every thread and I know you're an expert on absolutely everything but you know absolutely nothing about this. You've used words like negligence and blame and phrases such as completely missing the fracture. Do you know anything about MRI? Do you know anything about imaging? Do you know how stress fractures manifest themselves? Do you have any sort of medical or imaging degree? No thought not. I know for a fact that it was missed and it was the fault of Stoke City. The people they used missed similar things on other players (not Stoke players) I'm not saying anything more. And if you didn't know that It's pretty obvious it was missed by us or we wouldn't be paying his wages now. |
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Post by WhyDelilah on Mar 27, 2017 18:11:53 GMT
Are we still paying Shaqiri's wages?
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Post by simple on Mar 27, 2017 19:07:41 GMT
Butland was told he could resume training by a specialist not Stokes medical team and then was fit to be picked.So as far as the FA are concerned he his ok.The hairline fracture could of happened during training or while he was walking on the beach.Its most proberley cost more in wages for Shaqiri should we blame BM for selling us damaged goods.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 27, 2017 21:45:00 GMT
Butland was told he could resume training by a specialist not Stokes medical team and then was fit to be picked.So as far as the FA are concerned he his ok.The hairline fracture could of happened during training or while he was walking on the beach.Its most proberley cost more in wages for Shaqiri should we blame BM for selling us damaged goods. We didn't buy him from Bayern Munich - if that is what you mean by BM. |
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