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Post by djduncanjames on Mar 24, 2017 21:06:07 GMT
Ryan would do a great job for England and we all know it. Even his wife and his manager and his mates know it too.  |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Mar 24, 2017 21:09:58 GMT
I'm not against picking players from 'Boro, but fuck me they're in the relegation zone and play some absolutely insipid shit, surely there's a better option than that.
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 24, 2017 21:17:45 GMT
Unfortunately Ryan is nowhere near a good enough footballer for International football.
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Post by djduncanjames on Mar 24, 2017 21:25:18 GMT
Unfortunately Ryan is nowhere near a good enough footballer for International football. Would he get in the Wales team Pugs? |
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 24, 2017 21:29:56 GMT
Unfortunately Ryan is nowhere near a good enough footballer for International football. Would he get in the Wales team Pugs? I mean England. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 21:40:52 GMT
I could accept your view if the support for Ryan was coming from fans around the country but I have to be honest I haven't seen many. Ryan has never really been England class in my view! He's a better defender than all of the current CBs pretty easily. He isn't. |
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Post by djduncanjames on Mar 24, 2017 22:13:00 GMT
He's a better defender than all of the current CBs pretty easily. He isn't. Key words he's chosen Roland... |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 25, 2017 0:19:25 GMT
He's a better defender than all of the current CBs pretty easily. He isn't. He is. |
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Mar 25, 2017 6:21:49 GMT
2 centre halves who were playing in the championship last season in the england squad, The Shawcross ship has sailed, 9 seasons a captain, a rock at the back in the prem, (minus what? 10-15 games) countless motm performances. A period of that he was easily englands best centre half, absolute joke. All because he plays for stoke, some of the English players at the so called 'bigger clubs' are carried by foreign players, do one FA I could accept your view if the support for Ryan was coming from fans around the country but I have to be honest I haven't seen many. Ryan has never really been England class in my view! He was and has been England class for the last 5yrs *(bar 10-12 games this season), it has been absolutely criminal that he was only ever picked once to represent his country especially with the dearth of CBs available. Absolute joke |
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Mar 25, 2017 6:26:27 GMT
Unfortunately Ryan is nowhere near a good enough footballer for International football. This is the thing in football that grates with me the most, along with 'ball-playing' goalkeepers. Centre halves should be able to DEFEND first and foremost, if they can find a midfielder with a 30yd pass then thats enough in my book, midfielders are the creative players....let them create, let the defenders defend. And Ryan has been one of the best English defenders in this league for the best part of the last 5/6 years. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 6:45:04 GMT
Don't know whether anyone heard the discussion on Talksport about this, yes I know. Jason Cundy was discussing this, someone was proposing Ryan, he said Oh God no, he was unlucky not to be called up a few years ago, but that he had watched Ryan against Chelsea, and in his opinion Ryan could no longer run, and there is no way he would get a call up. He'd be spot on. His time has been and passed. He should have more caps by now but such is life. It is now the time for the likes of Keane, Gibson and Maguire. |
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Post by RAF on Mar 25, 2017 9:57:59 GMT
I'm not against picking players from 'Boro, but fuck me they're in the relegation zone and play some absolutely insipid shit, surely there's a better option than that. To be fair to them their defence is right up there for not conceding goals. It's the rest of the team that is wank. H |
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Post by silverdollar on Mar 25, 2017 10:28:25 GMT
I could accept your view if the support for Ryan was coming from fans around the country but I have to be honest I haven't seen many. Ryan has never really been England class in my view! He's a better defender than all of the current CBs pretty easily. You're a Stokie Bayern and entitled to your opinion but you missed my point. |
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Post by silverdollar on Mar 25, 2017 10:34:32 GMT
I could accept your view if the support for Ryan was coming from fans around the country but I have to be honest I haven't seen many. Ryan has never really been England class in my view! He was and has been England class for the last 5yrs *(bar 10-12 games this season), it has been absolutely criminal that he was only ever picked once to represent his country especially with the dearth of CBs available. Absolute joke I personally sick of this perpetual argument. In my experience any player of English heritage who shows any signs of quality gets his chance. Shawcross has his Stoke supporters but not many fans outside our club. IMO Shawcross is unable to take on the role and responsibilities of an England player. |
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Post by dutchstokie on Mar 25, 2017 10:37:14 GMT
I'm fucking sick of England managers keep picking the same players from the big clubs, it's a fucking disgrace! Why don't they give players from other clubs a chance?!?!?! ... What? They've picked some bloke from who? Middlesbrough? Who the fuck are they? I've never even heard of this prick! Fucking disgraceful England! Load of shit! I'm just fuckn sick of England full stop !! Bollocks to the whole set up |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 13:44:40 GMT
He definitely isn't. There is no way on gods earth that Ryan would hold a regular centre half berth down at Chelsea mate. Gary Cahill does. There is no way that Ryan would hold a regular centre half berth down at Man Utd. Chris Smalling does/has when fit. Those two are better centre halves than Ryan without a shadow of doubt and there are arguments to be put forward for the others being better than Ryan as it stands today. |
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Post by Waggy on Mar 25, 2017 14:32:13 GMT
I'd have him here
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 25, 2017 17:19:09 GMT
2 centre halves who were playing in the championship last season in the england squad, Tells you all you need to know about Premiership Football and its effect on the English game. The inclusion of Shawcross makes little difference. |
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 25, 2017 17:20:23 GMT
I'm not against picking players from 'Boro, but fuck me they're in the relegation zone and play some absolutely insipid shit, surely there's a better option than that. I thought we were always complaining about players from big clubs being chosen????? Make your minds up!!! |
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Post by kustokie on Mar 25, 2017 17:37:41 GMT
Unfortunately Ryan is nowhere near a good enough footballer for International football. This is the thing in football that grates with me the most, along with 'ball-playing' goalkeepers. Centre halves should be able to DEFEND first and foremost, if they can find a midfielder with a 30yd pass then thats enough in my book, midfielders are the creative players....let them create, let the defenders defend. And Ryan has been one of the best English defenders in this league for the best part of the last 5/6 years. Except for one tiny set of inconvenient facts: he was either seriously hampered or out of action completely with a serious back injury for about half that time and is only now coming back into form. |
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Mar 25, 2017 18:26:29 GMT
This argument had weight 3 or 4 years ago before all of Ryan's injuries took their toll. This season he's actually been quite poor for a large chunk of the season and nowhere near good enough for an England call up in my opinion. He had a great game against Man City and a decent one against Chelsea so maybe there are some signs that his touch might be slowly returning but based on his performances this season he shouldn't be anywhere near the England squad.
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Mar 25, 2017 22:12:24 GMT
I think that effectively writes Ryan off every getting the call again. In one respect, Im glad as it keeps Ryan fresh for Stoke. on the other hand, I think it is an absolute disgrace. Ben Gibson over Ryan? Are you shitting me? I mean, its pretty obvious there is an agenda where Ryan is concerned. The fact Southgate is ex boro, both player and manager demonstrates just how wrong and corrupt it all is. I will argue with ANYONE who can suggest that Gibson is a better defender than Ryan is. It really is laughable to the point where if a call ever come for Ryan, I would want him to tell them where to go. Disgusting and embarrassing from the FA and Dudgate. SGS |
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Mar 25, 2017 22:13:08 GMT
Unfortunately Ryan is nowhere near a good enough footballer for International football. And I suppose you think Gibson is. What a clueless prick you are SGS |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 22:33:32 GMT
I think that effectively writes Ryan off every getting the call again. In one respect, Im glad as it keeps Ryan fresh for Stoke. on the other hand, I think it is an absolute disgrace. Ben Gibson over Ryan? Are you shitting me? I mean, its pretty obvious there is an agenda where Ryan is concerned. The fact Southgate is ex boro, both player and manager demonstrates just how wrong and corrupt it all is. I will argue with ANYONE who can suggest that Gibson is a better defender than Ryan is. It really is laughable to the point where if a call ever come for Ryan, I would want him to tell them where to go. Disgusting and embarrassing from the FA and Dudgate. SGS How much of this Gibson fella have you actually seen? I'm not for one minute saying he is better than Ryan because I simply couldn't say as I've seen very very little of him as a centre half. After all, Middlesborough aren't exactly plastered all over our TV screens every week are they. |
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 25, 2017 22:43:01 GMT
Unfortunately Ryan is nowhere near a good enough footballer for International football. And I suppose you think Gibson is. What a clueless prick you are SGS Says the 'man' who claims there is an agenda against Ryan. Run along sonny. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Mar 25, 2017 22:53:24 GMT
Shawcy's England possibilities ended a while ago.
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 26, 2017 0:47:36 GMT
I think that the aggravation that Shawcross' exclusion from the England squad causes on here boils down to just a couple of things.
First of all, there's the sheer unfairness of how his career was ended in a twenty minute (?) cameo. Theo Walcott has 47 caps for England, and he hasn't really played well in more than a handful of those games. How often do we have to watch him plod up the wing and kick the ball out for a goal kick before he's permanently exiled from the squad? It's one standard for certain players, and another standard for others. Had he been given a further chance and not taken it, I don't think anybody would particularly complain. He's been very harshly treated, and that's tough to accept for a player who has been with us for ten years and has been our best player and captain for about eight of those.
The second is the argument that he's not 'international class', which is a fairly broad term that doesn't really mean anything in particular, especially when the standard of international football is so much lower than club football. It becomes particularly meaningless when none of England's centre backs are particularly what you might describe as 'international class'. They're all a load of mediocre dross, and for much of the last eight years, Ryan has consistently been better than them, regardless of 'class'. It's more rooted in snobbery than anything else. John Stones has 'class' because he does stepovers and plays for exciting foreign managers. Shawcross can't have 'class' because he's robust, uncompromising and plays for managers who have a reputation for putting out teams of cloggers.
All in all, it's difficult to argue that at no point in the last eight years, Ryan hasn't been amongst the five best English centre backs available. Can anybody really, truly, hand-on-heart say that he's not even deserved a squad place over some of the players that have been there in the last few years? He was a one-man defence for Hughes' first three years here, but at no point was he any better than Phil Jagielka or Gary Cahill? I struggle to believe that.
Anyway, it is what it is. When he came back last season and we didn't concede a single goal with him on the pitch until his back injury at Leicester, he was comfortably the best English centre back around, something that can be said without a single word of hyperbole or exagerration. If he didn't get called up then, he was never going to get called up. It's not worth getting worked up over any more, it'll just go down as another name on the list of Stoke City England national team injustices.
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 26, 2017 1:39:28 GMT
I think that the aggravation that Shawcross' exclusion from the England squad causes on here boils down to just a couple of things. First of all, there's the sheer unfairness of how his career was ended in a twenty minute (?) cameo. Theo Walcott has 47 caps for England, and he hasn't really played well in more than a handful of those games. How often do we have to watch him plod up the wing and kick the ball out for a goal kick before he's permanently exiled from the squad? It's one standard for certain players, and another standard for others. Had he been given a further chance and not taken it, I don't think anybody would particularly complain. He's been very harshly treated, and that's tough to accept for a player who has been with us for ten years and has been our best player and captain for about eight of those. The second is the argument that he's not 'international class', which is a fairly broad term that doesn't really mean anything in particular, especially when the standard of international football is so much lower than club football. It becomes particularly meaningless when none of England's centre backs are particularly what you might describe as 'international class'. They're all a load of mediocre dross, and for much of the last eight years, Ryan has consistently been better than them, regardless of 'class'. It's more rooted in snobbery than anything else. John Stones has 'class' because he does stepovers and plays for exciting foreign managers. Shawcross can't have 'class' because he's robust, uncompromising and plays for managers who have a reputation for putting out teams of cloggers. All in all, it's difficult to argue that at no point in the last eight years, Ryan hasn't been amongst the five best English centre backs available. Can anybody really, truly, hand-on-heart say that he's not even deserved a squad place over some of the players that have been there in the last few years? He was a one-man defence for Hughes' first three years here, but at no point was he any better than Phil Jagielka or Gary Cahill? I struggle to believe that. Anyway, it is what it is. When he came back last season and we didn't concede a single goal with him on the pitch until his back injury at Leicester, he was comfortably the best English centre back around, something that can be said without a single word of hyperbole or exagerration. If he didn't get called up then, he was never going to get called up. It's not worth getting worked up over any more, it'll just go down as another name on the list of Stoke City England national team injustices. Do you think Conte would swap Cahill for Shawcross? Or would Man City swap Stones, or United Smalling Baring in mind, if they wanted they could! |
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 26, 2017 9:51:42 GMT
I think that the aggravation that Shawcross' exclusion from the England squad causes on here boils down to just a couple of things. First of all, there's the sheer unfairness of how his career was ended in a twenty minute (?) cameo. Theo Walcott has 47 caps for England, and he hasn't really played well in more than a handful of those games. How often do we have to watch him plod up the wing and kick the ball out for a goal kick before he's permanently exiled from the squad? It's one standard for certain players, and another standard for others. Had he been given a further chance and not taken it, I don't think anybody would particularly complain. He's been very harshly treated, and that's tough to accept for a player who has been with us for ten years and has been our best player and captain for about eight of those. The second is the argument that he's not 'international class', which is a fairly broad term that doesn't really mean anything in particular, especially when the standard of international football is so much lower than club football. It becomes particularly meaningless when none of England's centre backs are particularly what you might describe as 'international class'. They're all a load of mediocre dross, and for much of the last eight years, Ryan has consistently been better than them, regardless of 'class'. It's more rooted in snobbery than anything else. John Stones has 'class' because he does stepovers and plays for exciting foreign managers. Shawcross can't have 'class' because he's robust, uncompromising and plays for managers who have a reputation for putting out teams of cloggers. All in all, it's difficult to argue that at no point in the last eight years, Ryan hasn't been amongst the five best English centre backs available. Can anybody really, truly, hand-on-heart say that he's not even deserved a squad place over some of the players that have been there in the last few years? He was a one-man defence for Hughes' first three years here, but at no point was he any better than Phil Jagielka or Gary Cahill? I struggle to believe that. Anyway, it is what it is. When he came back last season and we didn't concede a single goal with him on the pitch until his back injury at Leicester, he was comfortably the best English centre back around, something that can be said without a single word of hyperbole or exagerration. If he didn't get called up then, he was never going to get called up. It's not worth getting worked up over any more, it'll just go down as another name on the list of Stoke City England national team injustices. Do you think Conte would swap Cahill for Shawcross? Or would Man City swap Stones, or United Smalling Baring in mind, if they wanted they could! I think that is the point he was making. It is, generally speaking, the elite clubs' snobby attitudes which shape the England squad. Had Shawcross been playing for The Shit instead of say John O'shea, Wes Brown, Phil Jones etc etc, all of whom, at his best, he was head and shoulders better than in every respect, he would have had many more caps and opportunities than the paltry and derisory one he was given. But as has been said that ship sailed long ago and whilst it might rankle with him, I would really rather he was nowhere near it and used the international breaks and close season to rest and recuperate so that we get the best and most out of the years he has left at the top. |
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Post by Olgrligm on Mar 26, 2017 10:16:55 GMT
I think that the aggravation that Shawcross' exclusion from the England squad causes on here boils down to just a couple of things. First of all, there's the sheer unfairness of how his career was ended in a twenty minute (?) cameo. Theo Walcott has 47 caps for England, and he hasn't really played well in more than a handful of those games. How often do we have to watch him plod up the wing and kick the ball out for a goal kick before he's permanently exiled from the squad? It's one standard for certain players, and another standard for others. Had he been given a further chance and not taken it, I don't think anybody would particularly complain. He's been very harshly treated, and that's tough to accept for a player who has been with us for ten years and has been our best player and captain for about eight of those. The second is the argument that he's not 'international class', which is a fairly broad term that doesn't really mean anything in particular, especially when the standard of international football is so much lower than club football. It becomes particularly meaningless when none of England's centre backs are particularly what you might describe as 'international class'. They're all a load of mediocre dross, and for much of the last eight years, Ryan has consistently been better than them, regardless of 'class'. It's more rooted in snobbery than anything else. John Stones has 'class' because he does stepovers and plays for exciting foreign managers. Shawcross can't have 'class' because he's robust, uncompromising and plays for managers who have a reputation for putting out teams of cloggers. All in all, it's difficult to argue that at no point in the last eight years, Ryan hasn't been amongst the five best English centre backs available. Can anybody really, truly, hand-on-heart say that he's not even deserved a squad place over some of the players that have been there in the last few years? He was a one-man defence for Hughes' first three years here, but at no point was he any better than Phil Jagielka or Gary Cahill? I struggle to believe that. Anyway, it is what it is. When he came back last season and we didn't concede a single goal with him on the pitch until his back injury at Leicester, he was comfortably the best English centre back around, something that can be said without a single word of hyperbole or exagerration. If he didn't get called up then, he was never going to get called up. It's not worth getting worked up over any more, it'll just go down as another name on the list of Stoke City England national team injustices. Do you think Conte would swap Cahill for Shawcross? Or would Man City swap Stones, or United Smalling Baring in mind, if they wanted they could! Firstly, I think that Conte will be looking for better than Cahil anyway. Centre back is pretty much the only weak link in their side. Smalling is a good defender, but he's really come into his own in the last couple of seasons - he was quite poor before that. |
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