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Post by crazyhorse on Mar 9, 2017 23:19:15 GMT
Just come across this, haven't seen it mentioned on here... NY Times - Cultural appropriation of Swing LowWe get a mention towards the end regarding Wenger's rugby comments and our Swing Low piss-take, they've even included a video of us singing it at the Emirates. We sing it to wind up Wenger and the Arse fans because Swing Low is synonymous with Rugby in this country - why England Rugby fans sing it seems to be a mystery. Cultural appropriation or not? |
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Post by Staying up for Grandadstokey on Mar 9, 2017 23:45:40 GMT
I don't think there was any thoughts of the origin of the song in Stoke's case, merely a well timed piss take of Wenger's assertion that Stoke played like a Rugby team ,and I might add ,one of our better efforts that bought a smile to the faces of footy fans across the country ( apart from Arse fans of course).
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 9, 2017 23:47:27 GMT
Christ, another song we can't sing.
I didn't even know what its origins were until a few years back and by that time all fucks were lost. And I'd imagine that's the same for most English people who watch the rugby.
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Post by Billy the kid on Mar 9, 2017 23:53:18 GMT
Given that we abolished slavery well before the Americans this isn't our guilt trip.
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Post by dutchstokie on Mar 9, 2017 23:54:27 GMT
Christ, another song we can't sing. I didn't even know what its origins were until a few years back and by that time all fucks were lost. And I'd imagine that's the same for most English people who watch the rugby. "by that time all fucks were lost".........pretty much like how people think about your posts Bayern 😄 |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 9, 2017 23:56:04 GMT
Christ, another song we can't sing. I didn't even know what its origins were until a few years back and by that time all fucks were lost. And I'd imagine that's the same for most English people who watch the rugby. "by that time all fucks were lost".........pretty much like how people think about your posts Bayern 😄 Yet people reply! 🤔  |
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Post by Gods on Mar 10, 2017 0:03:33 GMT
Rugger-buggers don't you just love'em  For some reason 'swing low' got quite a few renditions at our recent surrender at White Hart Lane. I suppose any song is better than no song but I'm not a fan of it unless it is winding up Arsenal. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 10, 2017 0:09:20 GMT
Rugger-buggers don't you just love'em For some reason 'swing low' got quite a few renditions at our recent surrender at White Hart Lane. I suppose any song is better than no song but I'm not a fan of it unless it is winding up Arsenal. It's almost like singing a song about domestic abuse for no good reason! |
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Post by Staying up for Grandadstokey on Mar 10, 2017 0:18:34 GMT
Rugger-buggers don't you just love'em For some reason 'swing low' got quite a few renditions at our recent surrender at White Hart Lane. I suppose any song is better than no song but I'm not a fan of it unless it is winding up Arsenal. Precisely, it's origin in Stoke's case was a topical piss take. It's irrelevant against anyone except Arsenal. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 0:28:56 GMT
I didn't know what the origins were, and nor do I think we should care. It's a song and it's a piss-take of our own long-gone reputation. That's all.
For footballing reasons I'm generally only in favour of using it when we're making the Wenger-boys look like the pathetic sissies that they are. It's tied in to Wenger anyway, so as far as I'm concerned, this season's rendition (as we scupper Arsenal's chances of a top-four placing and say ta-ta to the stupid French twat) should be the last time we hear it.
Sing it with gusto is what I say.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Mar 10, 2017 14:44:58 GMT
Reading that Article from beginning to end all I could think of was 'Blazing Saddles....'
😅
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Post by jpm64 on Mar 10, 2017 15:50:54 GMT
Given that we abolished slavery well before the Americans this isn't our guilt trip. Not our Guilt trip ????? You ARE joking aren't you ? |
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Post by raythesailor on Mar 10, 2017 16:03:22 GMT
Given that we abolished slavery well before the Americans this isn't our guilt trip. Totally agree. We abolished Slavery some 100 years or more than the Americans. This resulted in the decimation of the sugar cane and Cotton farming in the W Indies causing great hardship and poverty in the region as the plantations could not compete with the free labour and exploitation of the US. They do not have any comprehension of what happens outside their borders. I find it somewhat condescending to say that people who go to Rugby or Football matches have no understanding of the songs origins. Of course we do, and by singing it at sports venues we mean no disrespect to the slaves and African Americans, which they, quite rightly, still have a guilt complex about. ⚓️🇬🇧 |
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Post by mattador78 on Mar 10, 2017 18:33:55 GMT
Reading that Article from beginning to end all I could think of was 'Blazing Saddles....' 😅 What in the wide wide world of sports is going on here |
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Post by Boothen on Mar 10, 2017 21:38:35 GMT
Who gives a fuck? I mean, seriously, apart from the special little snowflakes in their safe spaces, who gives a single flying fuck where the song originated?
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 11, 2017 0:52:29 GMT
Given that we abolished slavery well before the Americans this isn't our guilt trip. Not our Guilt trip ????? You ARE joking aren't you ? First of all I profess complete ingorance of the origins of the song but now I do, I reckon it should be taken contextually just as we sing Delilah, which is about a bloke murdering his wife because she's been having it off with another bloke. We don't accord with that sentiment... do we? And when it comes to this guilt trip we should all be on, well forgive me but I can trace my family back to 1600 and none of mine ever owned a slave. So let's put the guilt trips firmly where it belongs, on the backs of the establishment and those who wanted to use cheap labour to fill their pockets. I can understand that black people will carry the the weight of slavery as a heavy burden on their progress through humanity, and I despise those who see the colour of a persons skin being a reason to denigrate them, just as I do those who mock people of a different sexual persuasion. But bigotry is a fact of life and even if you stop comments about those things you won't stop thought processes. I think it's time for black people to take the late Muhammad Ali's attitude and put two fingers up to racists with the words, "Black is beautiful." Given the positions they've risen to in the Western World, they have every right to do that and in the matter of athleticism, and to a large degree, music, they can piss on most white supremacists. So perhaps they should throw us some slack and grin from afar at our ignorance. That would be the wise thing to do. And as I said, contextually, Stoke fans sing it to Wenger purely to point out that our 'rugby football' can beat their purist stuff. One thing I am sure of, not a single Stoke fan had anything racist in their heads when they were singing it, just as none of us have murderous thoughts when we sing Delilah. Well, maybe in my case if that bastard Fabrigas was playing I might. OS. |
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Post by essexstokey on Mar 11, 2017 7:09:37 GMT
Not sure about this but I always understood the reason for rugby fans singing this song was to do with Martin Offia and his nick name chariots of fire, fans then started singing swing low when he was on form and playing well hence swing low sweet chariot. It then continued on as the fans adopted it as an anthem..
I think political correctness has gone too far, yes swing low is a negro slave song but everyone knows that and it reminds us that where we have come from and a remembrance of those that suffered
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Post by bathstoke on Mar 11, 2017 7:32:48 GMT
Given that we abolished slavery well before the Americans this isn't our guilt trip. Not our Guilt trip ????? You ARE joking aren't you ? I accept no guilt for the slave trade, the same as I accept no blame for the dark satanic mills. Don't blame us Anglo-Saxons for the sins of Norman descends |
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 11, 2017 7:34:20 GMT
We'll hear we go again some left wing liberals have got nothing to do so let's start another campaign
Personally if my great great grandfather had connections to the slave (haven't got a clue about him ) trade I wouldn't care one jot
It is complete nonsense to keep judging deeds of the past where the social boundaries were completely different from today's thoughts
Maybe if modern black Americans spent as much energy as they do on trying to get the whole world and his dog to apologies for something they had no control over
And concentrated upon stopping black on black shootings many innocent lives would be saved
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Post by Billy the kid on Mar 11, 2017 9:17:58 GMT
If my comment came across as flippant then I apologise for that. Having said that, I find it hard to take the general criticism of Stoke fans and indeed England Rugby fans for singing this song. The point being we have camera footage or the Americans having segregation, separate busses fo blacks etc. The Americans have legal white supremacist and even neo nazi organisations still to this day, even their President looks to be a raving racist. For some left wing petal in America to call us out overy a song with negro slavery as it's origins (most would agree pure ignorance on that count) is outrageous. I think they should get their own house in order before taking swipes across the pond.
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Post by Frogger Theft Auto on Mar 11, 2017 9:19:58 GMT
We sing that because Wenger called us a rugby team?! I thought we sang it to take the piss out of slavery in America.
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Post by roosterscomb on Mar 11, 2017 11:29:09 GMT
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Post by Fenparkpotter on Mar 11, 2017 12:40:48 GMT
Don't mind us singing it in a non-Arsenal context tbh. In footballing terms, it's quite unique to us, and is far better than "you're f*cking sh*t" at 0-0
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 11, 2017 13:34:39 GMT
If my comment came across as flippant then I apologise for that. Having said that, I find it hard to take the general criticism of Stoke fans and indeed England Rugby fans for singing this song. The point being we have camera footage or the Americans having segregation, separate busses fo blacks etc. The Americans have legal white supremacist and even neo nazi organisations still to this day, even their President looks to be a raving racist. For some left wing petal in America to call us out overy a song with negro slavery as it's origins (most would agree pure ignorance on that count) is outrageous. I think they should get their own house in order before taking swipes across the pond. Don't you think those calling this out would desperately want to get their own house in order if they could? Otherwise we too are not eligible to offer any opinion on Trump or any other aspect of world politics without first getting our own house in order? That's easier said than done! I don't think its about criticism, I think its about general awareness and having some kind of understanding about stuff that comes out our mouths and potentially has implications for others. |
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Post by madnellie on Mar 11, 2017 23:54:12 GMT
To be fair, isn't the "sweet chariot" a reference to Ursa Major which the slaves escaping the US via the underground railroad used to help them navigate north to freedom and safety in Canada, or British North America as it was then known as it was part of the Empire. So whilst our ancestors have done some truly awful things (including, ironically, the treatment of Native Canadians) this is one of the times us Brits were actually on the side of good, our country (as it was then) being the 'home' referred to in the song.
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Post by Gods on Mar 12, 2017 0:00:35 GMT
To be fair, isn't the "sweet chariot" a reference to Ursa Major which the slaves escaping the US via the underground railroad used to help them navigate north to freedom and safety in Canada, or British North America as it was then known as it was part of the Empire. So whilst our ancestors have done some truly awful things (including, ironically, the treatment of Native Canadians) this is one of the times us Brits were actually on the side of good, our country (as it was then) being the 'home' referred to in the song. Trust you to intellectualise the whole thing  |
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Post by cmc89 on Mar 12, 2017 0:38:41 GMT
I'm one of those sickening lefty liberals everyone writes about. But even for me this is a step too far.
Americans are the last to be able to complain about lacking understanding and historical context. Washington redskins??? Chicago blackhawks???
The song has a completely different context over here and I don't see how anyone can argue a song has a specific purpose or context. No song is ringfenced for anyone or any time in history. That's not how music works.
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Post by madnellie on Mar 12, 2017 0:46:22 GMT
To be fair, isn't the "sweet chariot" a reference to Ursa Major which the slaves escaping the US via the underground railroad used to help them navigate north to freedom and safety in Canada, or British North America as it was then known as it was part of the Empire. So whilst our ancestors have done some truly awful things (including, ironically, the treatment of Native Canadians) this is one of the times us Brits were actually on the side of good, our country (as it was then) being the 'home' referred to in the song. Trust you to intellectualise the whole thing You can always rely on me, Gods  |
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 12, 2017 0:46:46 GMT
I'm one of those sickening lefty liberals everyone writes about. But even for me this is a step too far. Americans are the last to be able to complain about lacking understanding and historical context. Washington redskins??? Chicago blackhawks??? The song has a completely different context over here and I don't see how anyone can argue a song has a specific purpose or context. No song is ringfenced for anyone or any time in history. That's not how music works. Carefull now you don't want to start looking on the right side of things (Smiley thingy or whatever you call it ) |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Mar 12, 2017 0:52:19 GMT
It's a brilliant poke in the eye for Wenger and a brilliant ironic, self depricating Potter anthem for when we pull out some stunning nogger.
Like the old 'we only score from a throw in' thing which has sadly waned.
All a bit fuzzy, was it Swansea when we spontaneously pulled out the slow 'choir' version of it?
Amazing.
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