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Post by Gods on Mar 1, 2017 16:37:29 GMT
In a post on the OVF forum the chairman commented: “Vale Park in 2015 was valued at £9m [and] the rent from the Vale Park Enterprise Centre alone is circa £90,000 per annum.” In an additional reply he clarified that “the Vale Park valuation was as a stadium the land value for houses etc was less.” Vale Park ValuationI'm quite surprised the value is as high as that. The £90,000 pa 'alone' for the Enterprise Centre sounds a lot but it only amounts to 1% of this alleged valuation of the whole complex. Anyone know what what the Bet365 is worth as a stadium? Mr. Coates bought the full ownership from the Council but I don't remember him paying a huge sum of money for that. 3 or 4 million wasn't it? Is the Bet365 worth comparitively much, much less because it is an 'out of town'er' then I wonder?
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 1, 2017 16:38:57 GMT
Bet 365 is valued at £33,483m in the 2016 accounts of Stoke city Property, was revalued upwards by £33.1m during the year.
Correction revaluation was on 30\3\15
As for Vale, the ground and club are only worth what someone will pay for it and I doubt Smurf will get £10m+ for Vale in this life or the next regardless of whatever the ground is valued at.
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Post by Gods on Mar 1, 2017 17:32:36 GMT
Bet 365 is valued at £33,483m in the 2016 accounts of Stoke city Property, was revalued upwards by £33.1m during the year. Correction revaluation was on 30\3\15 As for Vale, the ground and club are only worth what someone will pay for it and I doubt Smurf will get £10m+ for Vale in this life or the next regardless of whatever the ground is valued at. Thanks for that clarification. So on the face of it what we paid the council for full ownership of the ground was a good piece of business although I suppose we would argue it wasn't exactly a sellers market since we would have been more or less the only viable buyer. And of course we have invested heavily in the ground and continue to do so.
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Post by Billy the kid on Mar 1, 2017 18:01:52 GMT
I would say that valuing a dedicated sports venue is tricky. Its not like say for instance if Stoke moved to a new stadium that anyone else would want to move in. Maybe Vale, maybe a rugby club but no one that would be able to afford it. Look at Cov City they moved out and left the stadium empty, it took years and Wasps moved in in the end, but they relocated miles. That is why when the olympics were over, west Ham moved in to the stadium. It shows piss poop planning from the get go, because realistically that was the only decent option a football stadium.
As for houses value being less, hhmmmm the ONLY reason it could be less is the fact that Burslem and Stoke On Trent all together has so many empty sites already.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 1, 2017 18:15:18 GMT
Bet 365 is valued at £33,483m in the 2016 accounts of Stoke city Property, was revalued upwards by £33.1m during the year. Correction revaluation was on 30\3\15 As for Vale, the ground and club are only worth what someone will pay for it and I doubt Smurf will get £10m+ for Vale in this life or the next regardless of whatever the ground is valued at. Thanks for that clarification. So on the face of it what we paid the council for full ownership of the ground was a good piece of business although I suppose we would argue it wasn't exactly a sellers market since we would have been more or less the only viable buyer. And of course we have invested heavily in the ground and continue to do so. This is an accounting valuation to do with replacement cost amongst other things so it doesn't mean the stadium is actually worth that. It's always good business to own your own premises for the council it was probably just a case of realising cash from selling versus their share of rent we paid over x years, as you say couldn't really sell to anyone else and rent was not related to the division we're in so it was unaffected by us being in premier league against old money Division 2 when we moved in.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 18:25:30 GMT
Anyone know what what the Bet365 is worth as a stadium? About a fiver
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 1, 2017 18:35:11 GMT
Anyone know what what the Bet365 is worth as a stadium? About a fiver The area is mine blighted so you may be right.
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Post by paulinespens on Mar 1, 2017 19:38:48 GMT
The area is mine blighted so you may be right. I think it was a marl hole come tip? Either way it's still in the latter bracket. A vale fan was shagging his sister and she said your a better shag than me dad.I know he replied,me mum said the same.
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Post by dexta on Mar 1, 2017 20:02:16 GMT
The area is mine blighted so you may be right. I think it was a marl hole come tip? Either way it's still in the latter bracket. A vale fan was shagging his sister and she said your a better shag than me dad.I know he replied,me mum said the same. just wrong
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Mar 1, 2017 20:07:23 GMT
Just spent hours on their forum, reading the interactions with their "Chairman", the guy comes across as either mentally insane or a deluded pathological liar!
They are a mess, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry
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Post by Davef on Mar 1, 2017 20:11:12 GMT
Just spent hours on their forum, reading the interactions with their "Chairman", the guy comes across as either mentally insane or a deluded pathological liar! They are a mess, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry Just do what I do. Cry laughing.
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Post by thevoid on Mar 1, 2017 21:17:23 GMT
He's no Alan Sugar is he? In fact I'd love Smurf to do The Apprentice.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 21:43:21 GMT
"Gutted we've got 3 games in hand. We'll never win any of them"
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Post by miltonstokienew on Mar 1, 2017 21:49:42 GMT
Apparently after the last home game , a Vale fan threw a 20 pence piece at the smurfs head.
Smurf thought it was a takeover bid.
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Post by mattador78 on Mar 2, 2017 0:57:21 GMT
Apparently after the last home game , a Vale fan threw a 20 pence piece at the smurfs head. Smurf thought it was a takeover bid. That was when he thought it was a five pence piece when he saw it was a twenty he realised they had over valued it and weren't serious
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Post by Skankmonkey on Mar 2, 2017 7:12:26 GMT
What an amusing bunch they are... cnuts.
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Post by flea79 on Mar 2, 2017 9:19:31 GMT
took a look at vales accounts and other associated limited companies that are tied to the vale, they have ccj's and court orders against them all over the show, Smurthwaite has plumbed the best part of £4 million of his own hard earned in and seems to have written off a million of that already
they are pretty much screwed I would say, the consensus is do not do business with them they are going under, and its going to be a long slow burn as well
guess the new insult on here will be fuck off down stone dominos!
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Post by peterthornesboots on Mar 2, 2017 12:01:05 GMT
Just spent hours on their forum, reading the interactions with their "Chairman", the guy comes across as either mentally insane or a deluded pathological liar! They are a mess, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry Having met Smurthwaite on a number of occasions through work I can confirm that he is a bizarre character. He's been successful in business outside football but he is very much a stubborn, single minded individual that thrives off confrontation and basically does what he wants regardless of the outcomes. There is nobody within that football club that has the balls to stand up to him. I am struggling to see how Vale can survive long term. - Dwindling attendances. - No community interaction. - The club and Vale Park are now separate entities and will be sold as such. - £3,700,000 owed to a chairman who is determined to recover what he has invested. - Most importantly, who in their right mind would buy the club?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 12:05:04 GMT
Just spent hours on their forum, reading the interactions with their "Chairman", the guy comes across as either mentally insane or a deluded pathological liar! They are a mess, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry Having met Smurthwaite on a number of occasions through work I can confirm that he is a bizarre character. He's been successful in business outside football but he is very much a stubborn, single minded individual that thrives off confrontation and basically does what he wants regardless of the outcomes. There is nobody within that football club that has the balls to stand up to him. I am struggling to see how Vale can survive long term. - Dwindling attendances. - No community interaction. - The club and Vale Park are now separate entities and will be sold as such. - £3,700,000 owed to a chairman who is determined to recover what he has invested. - Most importantly, who in their right mind would buy the club? The guys displays all the signs of being a complete narcissist. Some of the shit he comes out with I actually question the statements about his personal wealth, it always seems very cloak and dagger and his Companies House records appear to be a complete minefield......
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 12:43:28 GMT
Just spent hours on their forum, reading the interactions with their "Chairman", the guy comes across as either mentally insane or a deluded pathological liar! They are a mess, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry Having met Smurthwaite on a number of occasions through work I can confirm that he is a bizarre character. He's been successful in business outside football but he is very much a stubborn, single minded individual that thrives off confrontation and basically does what he wants regardless of the outcomes. There is nobody within that football club that has the balls to stand up to him. I am struggling to see how Vale can survive long term Burslum version of Trump then GD
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 14:12:00 GMT
Just spent hours on their forum, reading the interactions with their "Chairman", the guy comes across as either mentally insane or a deluded pathological liar! They are a mess, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry Having met Smurthwaite on a number of occasions through work I can confirm that he is a bizarre character. He's been successful in business outside football but he is very much a stubborn, single minded individual that thrives off confrontation and basically does what he wants regardless of the outcomes. There is nobody within that football club that has the balls to stand up to him. I am struggling to see how Vale can survive long term. - Dwindling attendances. - No community interaction. - The club and Vale Park are now separate entities and will be sold as such. - £3,700,000 owed to a chairman who is determined to recover what he has invested. - Most importantly, who in their right mind would buy the club? Robbie Williams. Saviour of the Burslum vermin.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 2, 2017 14:55:49 GMT
Having met Smurthwaite on a number of occasions through work I can confirm that he is a bizarre character. He's been successful in business outside football but he is very much a stubborn, single minded individual that thrives off confrontation and basically does what he wants regardless of the outcomes. There is nobody within that football club that has the balls to stand up to him. I am struggling to see how Vale can survive long term. - Dwindling attendances. - No community interaction. - The club and Vale Park are now separate entities and will be sold as such. - £3,700,000 owed to a chairman who is determined to recover what he has invested. - Most importantly, who in their right mind would buy the club? The guys displays all the signs of being a complete narcissist. Some of the shit he comes out with I actually question the statements about his personal wealth, it always seems very cloak and dagger and his Companies House records appear to be a complete minefield...... Re his companies house records, in what sense? I have no idea about these things and I'm guessing there will be a few that don't either, so just want to know what sort of things are strange and mangled about them?
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Mar 2, 2017 15:04:45 GMT
The guys displays all the signs of being a complete narcissist. Some of the shit he comes out with I actually question the statements about his personal wealth, it always seems very cloak and dagger and his Companies House records appear to be a complete minefield...... Re his companies house records, in what sense? I have no idea about these things and I'm guessing there will be a few that don't either, so just want to know what sort of things are strange and mangled about them? I'll let him answer, but I'd guess there is a complex corporate structure in place that lacks transparency as to actual beneficial ownership and a web of inter-company accounts and loan dealings
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Post by thebet365 on Mar 2, 2017 15:11:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 15:12:48 GMT
The guys displays all the signs of being a complete narcissist. Some of the shit he comes out with I actually question the statements about his personal wealth, it always seems very cloak and dagger and his Companies House records appear to be a complete minefield...... Re his companies house records, in what sense? I have no idea about these things and I'm guessing there will be a few that don't either, so just want to know what sort of things are strange and mangled about them? Just a list of companies as long as your arm registered, shut down, directors coming and going constantly. I'm not suggesting anything dodgy but it's a tangled web alright.....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 15:13:56 GMT
Re his companies house records, in what sense? I have no idea about these things and I'm guessing there will be a few that don't either, so just want to know what sort of things are strange and mangled about them? I'll let him answer, but I'd guess there is a complex corporate structure in place that lacks transparency as to actual beneficial ownership and a web of inter-company accounts and loan dealings You put it far more succinctly than I did :-)
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Post by peterthornesboots on Mar 2, 2017 15:14:30 GMT
The fact that he has split the club into separate three sections owned by three different companies is very concerning (if you are a Vale fan). It means that if he sells the club, then he could still keep hold of the ground for himself and then charge rent. Agree with the above - there is absolutely no transparency.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 2, 2017 15:31:38 GMT
The fact that he has split the club into separate three sections owned by three different companies is very concerning (if you are a Vale fan). It means that if he sells the club, then he could still keep hold of the ground for himself and then charge rent. Agree with the above - there is absolutely no transparency. We're split into a few! And I think I'm right in saying that the ground and club aren't owned by the same one. But I digress........ And thank you for the explanations!
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 2, 2017 15:47:07 GMT
The fact that he has split the club into separate three sections owned by three different companies is very concerning (if you are a Vale fan). It means that if he sells the club, then he could still keep hold of the ground for himself and then charge rent. Agree with the above - there is absolutely no transparency. We're split into a few! And I think I'm right in saying that the ground and club aren't owned by the same one. But I digress........ And thank you for the explanations! Yes Stoke are split into different companies but that is probably more to do with the fact Bet365 don't own 100% of football club shares so if they spend £8m+ on the training ground and put it into the football club that they own 80-90% of they effectively give part ownership of the training ground for free to the other shareholders. Vale will probably be separated for financing reasons ie so they can take out loans against the ground.
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Post by y_oh_y_delilah on Mar 2, 2017 15:49:42 GMT
Despite being located within the bounds of Stoke on Trent, to me, conceptually Port Vale FC are absolutely no different to say, Leyton Orient FC. Just another struggling football club.
I don't really care whether they go under now or live to fight another day before going under, but go under they certainly will.
Apart from a few thousand (3-4,000?) die hard fans who I do feel a bit of sympathy for no one really cares do they?
Their only purpose in the football league is to make up the numbers and will easily be replaced by a club with a genuine ambition to succeed, maybe Dover, Barrow, Gateshead or Forest Green?
I've said it many many times before, these days a city the size of Stoke on Trent simply cannot sustain two professional football clubs. It simply can't! For example Leeds c twice the size of Stoke on Trent has one football league club. Says it all.
Who knows, some miracle might occur that keeps the Vale afloat for a bit longer, but would only delay the inevitable and if I were Smurf (thank god I'm not) I would now do exactly what he appears to be doing, namely sowing the seeds to get out and run with whatever he can recoup from the failed venture.
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