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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 6, 2017 20:24:04 GMT
A lot of people on this board want to play all the flair-players, but I guess they want good results as well!? Well, if you are going to win something you need players able to win the battle first of all, then it could be room for the flair-players to shine. Just to give some examples of this is to look at the Arsenal side that were almost unbeatable, they built from the back and had players like Petite, Viera and a very styrong back four to bring them titles. The same could be said about Chelsea who won titles with players like Makelele and Mikel in the centre of the park. Last year they even ended behind us because they were too soft in the middle of the park. Why have they done so much better this year then? The team isn't that different from last season, but they bought Kante from Leicester which has given them a much more solid spine (no coincidence that Leicester aren't doing that well this year!). When Manchester United were at their best they had Scholes and later Carrick in his prime years, but after that they suffered. The point of this post is that you can call for all the fair-player, but if we put them all on the pitch we'll lose most of the games! We need to be strong defensively to survive in this league, and if you have a strong base you can add a couple of flair-players, but you must always be aware of the balance of the team!  |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 6, 2017 20:32:45 GMT
Reminds me of Sir Alf Ramsey's comment about his 66 squad/team - "I don't select the best players, I select the best team"
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 6, 2017 20:35:41 GMT
Playing one flair player would be a start. At least under pulis we had Ricardo fuller to dull the senses
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Jan 6, 2017 20:36:47 GMT
Who's asking for ALL flair players? We have Arnautovic. Shaqiri, Bojan, Afellay and Imbula that I consider flair players and apart from Arnie they were all overlooked by players like Walters and strikers out of position. We can still have more than 1 flair player and it won't damage our team. Shaqiri, Bojan and Arnie can play in the same team.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 6, 2017 20:37:00 GMT
Reminds me of Sir Alf Ramsey's comment about his 66 squad/team - "I don't select the best players, I select the best team" And where did that take England?  |
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Post by leicspotter on Jan 6, 2017 20:38:28 GMT
Agreed. The key word here is "balance", , something I am known to bang on about all the time. When G Cam came back into the side he gave us a better balance with some energy...since he has been injured MH has had to 'tinker' around and, generally, has struggled to get a 'balanced' 11.
Too many would be #10's in the squad, coupled with so many injuries, and a reluctance to play the Under 23's, means we have seen players NOT in their best positions, covering the holes. Shades of TP's 'square pegs'.
When all are fit there is still room for only one number 10, meaning Shaq / Bojan / Allen / Arnie can't all start together IMHO.
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Post by Titan Uranus on Jan 6, 2017 20:38:33 GMT
A lot of people on this board want to play all the flair-players, but I guess they want good results as well!? Well, if you are going to win something you need players able to win the battle first of all, then it could be room for the flair-players to shine. Just to give some examples of this is to look at the Arsenal side that were almost unbeatable, they built from the back and had players like Petite, Viera and a very styrong back four to bring them titles. The same could be said about Chelsea who won titles with players like Makelele and Mikel in the centre of the park. Last year they even ended behind us because they were too soft in the middle of the park. Why have they done so much better this year then? The team isn't that different from last season, but they bought Kante from Leicester which has given them a much more solid spine (no coincidence that Leicester aren't doing that well this year!). When Manchester United were at their best they had Scholes and later Carrick in his prime years, but after that they suffered. The point of this post is that you can call for all the fair-player, but if we put them all on the pitch we'll lose most of the games! We need to be strong defensively to survive in this league, and if you have a strong base you can add a couple of flair-players, but you must always be aware of the balance of the team! Yes A defensive strong midfielder instead of Imbula would go a long way to solving our current difficulties (in my opinion) |
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Post by Titan Uranus on Jan 6, 2017 20:39:44 GMT
Agreed. The key word here is "balance", , something I am known to bang on about all the time. When G Cam came back into the side he gave us a better balance with some energy...since he has been injured MH has had to 'tinker' around and, generally, has struggled to get a 'balanced' 11. Too many would be #10's in the squad, coupled with so many injuries, and a reluctance to play the Under 23's, means we have seen players NOT in their best positions, covering the holes. Shades of TP's 'square pegs'. When all are fit there is still room for only one number 10, meaning Shaq / Bojan / Allen / Arnie can't all start together IMHO. My thoughts are very similar. |
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Jan 6, 2017 20:40:26 GMT
Playing one flair player would be a start. At least under pulis we had Ricardo fuller to dull the senses So Arny isnt a flair player?? |
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Post by RichJonesy on Jan 6, 2017 20:41:28 GMT
I suppose with a solid back 4 and 2 of Allen/Adam/Whelan in front of them we could play more than just Arnie in an advanced position though. Could even stick with Crouch or Walters up top and have 3 flairs in behind.
I suppose points on the board are the priority but I would like to see us playing better football.
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Jan 6, 2017 20:42:54 GMT
I suppose with a solid back 4 and 2 of Allen/Adam/Whelan in front of them we could play more than just Arnie in an advanced position though. Could even stick with Crouch or Walters up top and have 3 flairs in behind. I suppose points on the board are the priority but I would like to see us playing better football. That will come once the confidence is restored. |
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Post by maninasuitcase on Jan 6, 2017 20:45:21 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 6, 2017 20:49:19 GMT
Playing one flair player would be a start. At least under pulis we had Ricardo fuller to dull the senses So Arny isnt a flair player?? Arnie is a fantastic player. Far to good to be playing for us with some of our shit. You'd have to be blind not to see his frustration at times on Tuesday. He us the perfect blend of brain and brawn. Is he a flair player? I don't think he is. He contributes too much when he's not playing well to be your archetypical flair player. I know you like to jump on any perceived criticism and that is your prerogative. For what its worth, I was saying we should have sold bojan back in August. The onus is on him to win his place back and prove himself indispensable. He hasn't done it. I'm not really sure he can have too much to complain about. Equally, leaving him out in favour of Allen, imbula, Walters or crouch is probably enough to piss anyone off. |
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Jan 6, 2017 20:55:04 GMT
So Arny isnt a flair player?? Arnie is a fantastic player. Far to good to be playing for us with some of our shit. You'd have to be blind not to see his frustration at times on Tuesday. He us the perfect blend of brain and brawn. Is he a flair player? I don't think he is. He contributes too much when he's not playing well to be your archetypical flair player. I know you like to jump on any perceived criticism and that is your prerogative. For what its worth, I was saying we should have sold bojan back in August. The onus is on him to win his place back and prove himself indispensable. He hasn't done it. I'm not really sure he can have too much to complain about. Equally, leaving him out in favour of Allen, imbula, Walters or crouch is probably enough to piss anyone off. Arny is definitely a flair player. Hes always been frustrated at some time in a match its in his mentality. Bojan was superb before his injury he now need to buckle down stop moaning and prove hes worth a place. Critiscm is fine if its warranted and is not just negativity or to prove an agenda. Have you read Malcolm Clarkes post about negativity? sums it up perfectly. |
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Post by PotteringThrough on Jan 6, 2017 20:55:36 GMT
So Arny isnt a flair player?? Arnie is a fantastic player. Far to good to be playing for us with some of our shit. You'd have to be blind not to see his frustration at times on Tuesday. He us the perfect blend of brain and brawn. Is he a flair player? I don't think he is. He contributes too much when he's not playing well to be your archetypical flair player. I know you like to jump on any perceived criticism and that is your prerogative. For what its worth, I was saying we should have sold bojan back in August. The onus is on him to win his place back and prove himself indispensable. He hasn't done it. I'm not really sure he can have too much to complain about. Equally, leaving him out in favour of Allen, imbula, Walters or crouch is probably enough to piss anyone off. For me on Tuesday he should have hammered them, he had the beating of them and honestly I don't think he did enough purely because he has the ability to have a field day. I could see the frustration but he should have used it to go at them more and do it himself, God knows he can do it. Arnie has adapted from being a flair player to offering so much more. However I still think he's a player you pay to go and watch and for me that is what constitutes being a flair player - what's the saying, worth the price of the ticket alone? |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 6, 2017 20:57:19 GMT
Arnie is a fantastic player. Far to good to be playing for us with some of our shit. You'd have to be blind not to see his frustration at times on Tuesday. He us the perfect blend of brain and brawn. Is he a flair player? I don't think he is. He contributes too much when he's not playing well to be your archetypical flair player. I know you like to jump on any perceived criticism and that is your prerogative. For what its worth, I was saying we should have sold bojan back in August. The onus is on him to win his place back and prove himself indispensable. He hasn't done it. I'm not really sure he can have too much to complain about. Equally, leaving him out in favour of Allen, imbula, Walters or crouch is probably enough to piss anyone off. Arny is definitely a flair player. Hes always been frustrated at some time in a match its in his mentality. Bojan was superb before his injury he now need to buckle down stop moaning and prove hes worth a place. Critiscm is fine if its warranted and is not just negativity or to prove an agenda. Have you read Malcolm Clarkes post about negativity? sums it up perfectly. Ah, that agenda word again. I suppose there is no agenda when posting positively? As far Malcolm's post, yes I've seen it. I stopped reading when he said he knows man united fans in Manchester because its clear he was obviously lying  |
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jan 6, 2017 20:59:25 GMT
So Arny isnt a flair player?? Arnie is a fantastic player. Far to good to be playing for us with some of our shit. You'd have to be blind not to see his frustration at times on Tuesday. He us the perfect blend of brain and brawn. Is he a flair player? I don't think he is. He contributes too much when he's not playing well to be your archetypical flair player. I know you like to jump on any perceived criticism and that is your prerogative. For what its worth, I was saying we should have sold bojan back in August. The onus is on him to win his place back and prove himself indispensable. He hasn't done it. I'm not really sure he can have too much to complain about. Equally, leaving him out in favour of Allen, imbula, Walters or crouch is probably enough to piss anyone off. Fully agree with this, we don't need more "flair" players we need more players that combine brain & brawn, very hard to be consistently successful if your team contains too many players with only one of those attributes. |
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Post by Boothen on Jan 6, 2017 21:00:22 GMT
Nowt wrong with having a lot of flair players, just look at the 92-93 AC Milan team.
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Jan 6, 2017 21:05:49 GMT
Arny is definitely a flair player. Hes always been frustrated at some time in a match its in his mentality. Bojan was superb before his injury he now need to buckle down stop moaning and prove hes worth a place. Critiscm is fine if its warranted and is not just negativity or to prove an agenda. Have you read Malcolm Clarkes post about negativity? sums it up perfectly. Ah, that agenda word again. I suppose there is no agenda when posting positively? As far Malcolm's post, yes I've seen it. I stopped reading when he said he knows man united fans in Manchester because its clear he was obviously lying Ahhhhh I know shit fans in Manchester as well Yes there can be an agenda when posting positively like the Bojan must be first to be picked. Unfortunately the majority of agendas are negative |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 6, 2017 21:18:00 GMT
A lot of people on this board want to play all the flair-players, but I guess they want good results as well!? Well, if you are going to win something you need players able to win the battle first of all, then it could be room for the flair-players to shine. Just to give some examples of this is to look at the Arsenal side that were almost unbeatable, they built from the back and had players like Petite, Viera and a very styrong back four to bring them titles. The same could be said about Chelsea who won titles with players like Makelele and Mikel in the centre of the park. Last year they even ended behind us because they were too soft in the middle of the park. Why have they done so much better this year then? The team isn't that different from last season, but they bought Kante from Leicester which has given them a much more solid spine (no coincidence that Leicester aren't doing that well this year!). When Manchester United were at their best they had Scholes and later Carrick in his prime years, but after that they suffered. The point of this post is that you can call for all the fair-player, but if we put them all on the pitch we'll lose most of the games! We need to be strong defensively to survive in this league, and if you have a strong base you can add a couple of flair-players, but you must always be aware of the balance of the team! Yes A defensive strong midfielder instead of Imbula would go a long way to solving our current difficulties (in my opinion) You might be right, but still I'm a bit scptical about playing Shaq and Bojan at the same time. In some games this could work, but never against the better teams.  |
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Post by Northy on Jan 6, 2017 21:20:32 GMT
Most of the players in the 70's had flair.....s
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 6, 2017 21:22:58 GMT
Nowt wrong with having a lot of flair players, just look at the 92-93 AC Milan team. Balance is again the key word for me! Not only flair, but also players with other attributes! |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 6, 2017 21:24:43 GMT
Yes A defensive strong midfielder instead of Imbula would go a long way to solving our current difficulties (in my opinion) You might be right, but still I'm a bit scptical about playing Shaq and Bojan at the same time. In some games this could work, but never against the better teams. Yet in reality, the only time its ever really worked is against the better teams. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 6, 2017 21:28:45 GMT
You might be right, but still I'm a bit scptical about playing Shaq and Bojan at the same time. In some games this could work, but never against the better teams. Yet in reality, the only time its ever really worked is against the better teams. Not this season, but last season on a couple of occasions. At that time we looked more solid at the back and partly played on the counter attack, but we were efficient at home against the two Manchester teams last season and Chelsea as well. |
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Post by liamo on Jan 6, 2017 21:31:47 GMT
We can and have played Arnie, Bojan and Shaq effectively before so why does it have to be a choice?
What we're seeing now is a failure to strengthen in key areas, we've needed a Whelan upgrade and a real replacement for Zonz for how long now? Solid base means we could afford to play our best creative players up the pitch
Shaqiri, Bojan and Arnie should be starting, they should be the least controversial issue when compared to other areas of the pitch
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 6, 2017 21:33:16 GMT
It's about getting the balance right and he seems to be going from one extreme to another. The problem is with the players he's bought whether it's 433 or 4231 there's going to be big players left out. The biggest problem we have is that the one DM at the club we have isn't good enough and we need 2 good ones. When we had Cameron and Whelan together we probably played our best football and they aren't good enough. For me with everone fit I think what we should be looking at something like.
................Lee..............
Glen.....Indi........Ryan....Eric
........Cameron.....Afellay......
Shaq...........Bojan.........Arni
...............Diouf.............
A mixture of hard work, athleticism and flair. The problem is I love Allen but I just don't know where he's a good fit if we're playing to a system.
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Post by simple on Jan 6, 2017 21:44:46 GMT
I hate Man Utd with passion,but George Best was the greatest footballer I saw live,now he had flair but he also had steel.Great teams have a mixture of a solid spine and more expansive players ,the problem we have we have no solid spine to allow the so called flair players to do there stuff.Waddo had flair in his teams but he also had his fair share of solid pros in the team.Its a balancing act which MH as not managed to find on a regular basis ,maybe in time he does.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 6, 2017 21:49:21 GMT
So Arny isnt a flair player?? Arnie is a fantastic player. Far to good to be playing for us with some of our shit. You'd have to be blind not to see his frustration at times on Tuesday. He us the perfect blend of brain and brawn. Is he a flair player? I don't think he is. He contributes too much when he's not playing well to be your archetypical flair player. I know you like to jump on any perceived criticism and that is your prerogative. For what its worth, I was saying we should have sold bojan back in August. The onus is on him to win his place back and prove himself indispensable. He hasn't done it. I'm not really sure he can have too much to complain about. Equally, leaving him out in favour of Allen, imbula, Walters or crouch is probably enough to piss anyone off. Interesting perspective on Arnie's performance on tuesday mate. He'll always make runs, hold off a defender and do plenty to justify his place. One of my all time faves. I thought by his standards he was poor, I didn't interprete it as frustration at the team etc. I thought he was wayward and aimless, more focused on bosting back onto the scene than harnassing his undoubted talents for the team. Spent a lot of time slipping over and the over ambitious back heel {I know I love it when it works} but that was over ambitoius, over daft. There was other stuff, I havn't re watched it but I was left underwhelmed by him on the night. I thought it looked like he'd been studying early Joe Allen videos or summat. He played the same role beautifully against them at their place. I agree with the rest. Except for selling Bojan. He's not been polished enough yet imo. |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 6, 2017 22:14:36 GMT
It's about getting the balance right and he seems to be going from one extreme to another. The problem is with the players he's bought whether it's 433 or 4231 there's going to be big players left out. The biggest problem we have is that the one DM at the club we have isn't good enough and we need 2 good ones. When we had Cameron and Whelan together we probably played our best football and they aren't good enough. For me with everone fit I think what we should be looking at something like. ................Lee.............. Glen.....Indi........Ryan....Eric ........Cameron.....Afellay...... Shaq...........Bojan.........Arni ...............Diouf............. A mixture of hard work, athleticism and flair. The problem is I love Allen but I just don't know where he's a good fit if we're playing to a system. For me Allen has been by far the best player this season and should be the first on the team sheet! |
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jan 6, 2017 22:26:48 GMT
It's about getting the balance right and he seems to be going from one extreme to another. The problem is with the players he's bought whether it's 433 or 4231 there's going to be big players left out. The biggest problem we have is that the one DM at the club we have isn't good enough and we need 2 good ones. When we had Cameron and Whelan together we probably played our best football and they aren't good enough. For me with everone fit I think what we should be looking at something like. ................Lee.............. Glen.....Indi........Ryan....Eric ........Cameron.....Afellay...... Shaq...........Bojan.........Arni ...............Diouf............. A mixture of hard work, athleticism and flair. The problem is I love Allen but I just don't know where he's a good fit if we're playing to a system. For me Allen has been by far the best player this season and should be the first on the team sheet! And there lies the problem where do we play him the only way is by playing no wingers and relying on our full backs to get forward. Maybe a 433 with a false 9. I can't see how you could play him and Bojan and not look vulnerable at the back. |
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