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Post by WhyDelilah on Nov 15, 2016 22:26:08 GMT
I think it's highly likely that Southgate will get the job now. The past 4 games have been far from great though. A country mile from just good in fact.
Only beating Malta 2-0 in a game we should've had a hatful in almost seemed to go unmentioned (a team which a very poor Scotland put 5 past). A goalless draw against Slovenia left a lot to be desired and then a scoreline that flattered to deceive against Scotland.
Tonight was better but how much can you read into friendlies? And we still contrived to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory.
Having said all that, I'd probably still give it to Southgate. I can't really think of many better candidates after the Allardyce farce (I'm a bit gutted we didn't get to see how that would've panned to be honest).
We need to accept we're not as good as we think and the better players in the world certainly aren't English, despite what the media tell us.
Southgate seems a very intelligent bloke. He's been part of the set up for a while and has done a very good job with the U21s. He talks a very good game and appears to have ideas of where he wants to take us, and he has long term goals in mind. Give him some time now.
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 15, 2016 22:30:27 GMT
I think it's highly likely that Southgate will get the job now. The past 4 games have been far from great though. A country mile from just good in fact. Only beating Malta 2-0 in a game we should've had a hatful in almost seemed to go unmentioned (a team which a very poor Scotland put 5 past). A goalless draw against Slovenia left a lot to be desired and then a scoreline that flattered to deceive against Scotland. Tonight was better but how much can you read into friendlies? And we still contrived to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory. Having said all that, I'd probably still give it to Southgate. I can't really think of many better candidates after the Allardyce farce (I'm a bit gutted we didn't get to see how that would've panned to be honest). We need to accept we're not as good as we think and the better players in the world certainly aren't English, despite what the media tell us. Southgate seems a very intelligent bloke. He's been part of the set up for a while and has done a very good job with the U21s. He talks a very good game and appears to have ideas of where he wants to take us, and he has long term goals in mind. Give him some time now. If the manager has to be English Southo is as right for it an anyone else. More than most.
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Post by Northy on Nov 15, 2016 22:31:13 GMT
They didn't give a fuck, yes Ok FFS ! did you see some of those tackles and the effort and closing down etc. or watching with blinkers or read somebody elses post on here? lets just jump on the negative tripe because we conceded an equaliser in the 96th minute to a recent twice Euro and once world champions hey Erm I said Spain didn't give a fuck and we really cared..... yes, if they didn't really care did you see some of the tackles and niggles on our players they were making, how can you come to the conclusion they didn't really care, Did you go around asking them, as their efforts didn't show that?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2016 22:34:50 GMT
Thought england were playing well, good tactics and then 2 poor efforts to block shots at the end 1 by stones and 1 by dier. Thought diers lunge especially was a bit half hearted.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Nov 15, 2016 22:36:46 GMT
I think it's highly likely that Southgate will get the job now. The past 4 games have been far from great though. A country mile from just good in fact. Only beating Malta 2-0 in a game we should've had a hatful in almost seemed to go unmentioned (a team which a very poor Scotland put 5 past). A goalless draw against Slovenia left a lot to be desired and then a scoreline that flattered to deceive against Scotland. Tonight was better but how much can you read into friendlies? And we still contrived to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory. Having said all that, I'd probably still give it to Southgate. I can't really think of many better candidates after the Allardyce farce (I'm a bit gutted we didn't get to see how that would've panned to be honest). We need to accept we're not as good as we think and the better players in the world certainly aren't English, despite what the media tell us. Southgate seems a very intelligent bloke. He's been part of the set up for a while and has done a very good job with the U21s. He talks a very good game and appears to have ideas of where he wants to take us, and he has long term goals in mind. Give him some time now. If the manager has to be English Southo is as right for it an anyone else. More than most. I don't think the manager has to be English. Look no further than the Rugby national team to see clear evidence of that. I just don't think any top foreign managers would want the job. And if they did, they'd probably just be following the money. I get the feeling Southgate wants it for the right reasons and he knows the set up inside out. He's been there as an England player too so understands what it takes and all the pressure and attention that comes with it. He might turn out to be a completely terrible manager for us but I can't think of anyone better to be honest. Give him a tournament at least and see how he progress.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 15, 2016 22:37:01 GMT
Erm I said Spain didn't give a fuck and we really cared..... yes, if they didn't really care did you see some of the tackles and niggles on our players they were making, how can you come to the conclusion they didn't really care, Did you go around asking them, as their efforts didn't show that? Their efforts did show that. They didn't break sweat until the last 10 minutes.
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 16, 2016 2:33:46 GMT
If the manager has to be English Southo is as right for it an anyone else. More than most. I don't think the manager has to be English. Look no further than the Rugby national team to see clear evidence of that. I just don't think any top foreign managers would want the job. And if they did, they'd probably just be following the money. I get the feeling Southgate wants it for the right reasons and he knows the set up inside out. He's been there as an England player too so understands what it takes and all the pressure and attention that comes with it. He might turn out to be a completely terrible manager for us but I can't think of anyone better to be honest. Give him a tournament at least and see how he progress. My preference at this stage would be a not English manager. Look at Europe's big hitters and how many of them aren't English.
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Post by scfctilidie on Nov 16, 2016 8:34:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 9:51:53 GMT
Herrera is turning out to be a dirty player. I didn't think he had that side to his game. Back to the game England did look a lot better, but when Spain turned it on, England didn't give me the slightest confidence that they would keep the lead. I still believe that whoever manages England is on a loser when it really matters. The players we have are not good enough to win a major tournament.
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Post by ryan4england on Nov 16, 2016 10:47:27 GMT
I think it's highly likely that Southgate will get the job now. The past 4 games have been far from great though. A country mile from just good in fact. Only beating Malta 2-0 in a game we should've had a hatful in almost seemed to go unmentioned (a team which a very poor Scotland put 5 past). A goalless draw against Slovenia left a lot to be desired and then a scoreline that flattered to deceive against Scotland. Tonight was better but how much can you read into friendlies? And we still contrived to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory. Having said all that, I'd probably still give it to Southgate. I can't really think of many better candidates after the Allardyce farce (I'm a bit gutted we didn't get to see how that would've panned to be honest). We need to accept we're not as good as we think and the better players in the world certainly aren't English, despite what the media tell us. Southgate seems a very intelligent bloke. He's been part of the set up for a while and has done a very good job with the U21s. He talks a very good game and appears to have ideas of where he wants to take us, and he has long term goals in mind. Give him some time now. If the manager has to be English Southo is as right for it an anyone else. More than most. Really? Why? Bet he cant believe his luck in taking england to a world cup after not doing the square root of anything as a manager, his club record is appaling. Suppose adi boothroyd will be next in line, maybe lee sinnot or steve cotterill. Southgate says he'd have to think bout taking the england job, who is he trying to fool, it isnt like he's being head hunted by well, anybody. All he can do is enhance his non existent reputation. For me if southgate gets it for a world cup we've give up but it will at least be an admission we're shit
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 16, 2016 11:14:14 GMT
If the manager has to be English Southo is as right for it an anyone else. More than most. Really? Why? Bet he cant believe his luck in taking england to a world cup after not doing the square root of anything as a manager, his club record is appaling. Suppose adi boothroyd will be next in line, maybe lee sinnot or steve cotterill. Southgate says he'd have to think bout taking the england job, who is he trying to fool, it isnt like he's being head hunted by well, anybody. All he can do is enhance his non existent reputation. For me if southgate gets it for a world cup we've give up but it will at least be an admission we're shit He isn't my first choice (that's Bielsa) but if it has to be English Southo is as good as anyone else.
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Post by ryan4england on Nov 16, 2016 11:34:38 GMT
Really? Why? Bet he cant believe his luck in taking england to a world cup after not doing the square root of anything as a manager, his club record is appaling. Suppose adi boothroyd will be next in line, maybe lee sinnot or steve cotterill. Southgate says he'd have to think bout taking the england job, who is he trying to fool, it isnt like he's being head hunted by well, anybody. All he can do is enhance his non existent reputation. For me if southgate gets it for a world cup we've give up but it will at least be an admission we're shit He isn't my first choice (that's Bielsa) but if it has to be English Southo is as good as anyone else. For me If southgate is our best english option (id prefer pardew if he 'has to be' english) then choosing english is the wrong option. Its a sad state of affairs when gareth southgate is the best english option. England's success will never change though anyway until there is a foreign player number cap of say 5 per squad and clubs start to hire english managers. We've made our bed as they say The selection pool of a third of this tiny island is lesser than ever, not rocket science is it
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 11:40:38 GMT
I think they should give it to Sammy Lee
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Post by ryan4england on Nov 16, 2016 11:50:58 GMT
Step by step guide on becoming england manager through the backdoor. 1) fail miserably at club level and apply for an u21 job with your not quite good enough c.v. 2) keep your head down & keep turning up when accepted for applied role 3) suck some cock on request 4) say you might not be interested in senior management position 5) win an easy game as interim manager 6) wait quietly 7) rip their arm off when offered job
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 16, 2016 12:10:40 GMT
I think they should give it to Sammy Lee It should go to someone who boasts about not watching games but does watch them then criticises whatever happens. Even when things go well.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Nov 16, 2016 12:12:03 GMT
If the manager has to be English Southo is as right for it an anyone else. More than most. Really? Why? Bet he cant believe his luck in taking england to a world cup after not doing the square root of anything as a manager, his club record is appaling. Suppose adi boothroyd will be next in line, maybe lee sinnot or steve cotterill. Southgate says he'd have to think bout taking the england job, who is he trying to fool, it isnt like he's being head hunted by well, anybody. All he can do is enhance his non existent reputation. For me if southgate gets it for a world cup we've give up but it will at least be an admission we're shit He's hardly won a raffle, has he? His record at Boro wasn't great but he's done a brilliant job for the U21s over a prolonged period of time. For me, the characteristics and traits for what makes a successful club manager are completely different to that of an international manager. The 2 jobs are completely different. You can't step in as the manager of a country and start signing all the players you'd like. You've got a restricted pool of players to work with and Southgate will have a good knowledge of that group, having worked in the England set up for many years. We've tried pretty much every approach when it comes to selecting managers in recent years and the end result has always been the same. The problems run much deeper than just appointing a manager with the best club CV. Southgate has been there as a player with national team too, and went through his own "trial by media" nightmare after Euro 96, so he'll know firsthand of the pressures that go along with the job of playing for your country and the intense spotlight that comes with it. Maybe that experience will help him make a decent fist of sorting out some of our issues that we seem to be dogged by. The players aren't good enough to win major tournaments but they're better than getting knocked out by the Costa Rica's and Iceland's of this world. We need to find a way of getting through that stage fright. Southgate could be a suitable candidate to deliver that.
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Post by werrington on Nov 16, 2016 12:13:01 GMT
I think they should give it to Sammy Lee What's with the Sammy Lee hatred ? He isn't a manager he's a coach ( like Bowen ) who has done excellent at all the clubs he's been at when he has coached ....he managed Bolton and he himself agreed it was a disaster Nobody not even himself has put his name forward but you are obsessed with him for some reason
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 16, 2016 12:19:57 GMT
Really? Why? Bet he cant believe his luck in taking england to a world cup after not doing the square root of anything as a manager, his club record is appaling. Suppose adi boothroyd will be next in line, maybe lee sinnot or steve cotterill. Southgate says he'd have to think bout taking the england job, who is he trying to fool, it isnt like he's being head hunted by well, anybody. All he can do is enhance his non existent reputation. For me if southgate gets it for a world cup we've give up but it will at least be an admission we're shit He's hardly won a raffle, has he? His record at Boro wasn't great but he's done a brilliant job for the U21s over a prolonged period of time. For me, the characteristics and traits for what makes a successful club manager are completely different to that of an international manager. The 2 jobs are completely different. You can't step in as the manager of a country and start signing all the players you'd like. You've got a restricted pool of players to work with and Southgate will have a good knowledge of that group, having worked in the England set up for many years. We've tried pretty much every approach when it comes to selecting managers in recent years and the end result has always been the same. The problems run much deeper than just appointing a manager with the best club CV. Southgate has been there as a player with national team too, and went through his own "trial by media" nightmare after Euro 96, so he'll know firsthand of the pressures that go along with the job of playing for your country and the intense spotlight that comes with it. Maybe that experience will help him make a decent fist of sorting out some of our issues that we seem to be dogged by. The players aren't good enough to win major tournaments but they're better than getting knocked out by the Costa Rica's and Iceland's of this world. We need to find a way of getting through that stage fright. Southgate could be a suitable candidate to deliver that. Stagefright yeah. So much is in the head.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 16, 2016 12:24:17 GMT
I think they should give it to Sammy Lee What's with the Sammy Lee hatred ? He isn't a manager he's a coach ( like Bowen ) who has done excellent at all the clubs he's been at when he has coached ....he managed Bolton was and he himself agreed it was a disaster Nobody not even himself has put his name forward but you are obsessed with him for some reason Tony does often sound like a jilted lover when talking about Sammy Lee. Did they, perhaps, have a "thing" in the past?
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Nov 16, 2016 12:58:02 GMT
He isn't my first choice (that's Bielsa) but if it has to be English Southo is as good as anyone else. For me If southgate is our best english option (id prefer pardew if he 'has to be' english) then choosing english is the wrong option. Its a sad state of affairs when gareth southgate is the best english option. England's success will never change though anyway until there is a foreign player number cap of say 5 per squad and clubs start to hire english managers.
We've made our bed as they say The selection pool of a third of this tiny island is lesser than ever, not rocket science is it aaah that old, ill thought out and lazy chestnut! care to explain why we did no better in any major tournaments back in the 70s and 80s when we barely had any foreign players in the English leagues and virtually all managers in our leagues were english? nope? see, kinda ruins that argument in one fell swoop doesn't it really. clubs don't hire english managers if they're not good enough, the ones that are hired are hired because they are good enough...regardless of nationality. it's up to the managers themselves to step up and perform better, it's not up to any club to hire a manager simply because they're english. same goes for young, english players and with them, if anything, better foreign players coming in actually helps their development as they HAVE to get better if they want to get into the side and they can learn the basics they should have at grassroots but didn't because of the shamble of the setup in English football for decades when it comes to youth development; the rest of the world moved on in terms of skills they have to learn, the basics and the way the game is played whilst our FA were happy to stay in the 60s and keep to that style of "Development". do you just trot out what you hear in the media without ever thinking anything through yourself at all? it's sod all to do with anything other than how we, in england, deal with football at the grass roots level. it's slowly improving but will be another generation possibly until we start to see it bearing any real fruit.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 14:09:47 GMT
I would give it to Arsene! Top man! Lol.
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Post by ryan4england on Nov 16, 2016 14:22:38 GMT
For me If southgate is our best english option (id prefer pardew if he 'has to be' english) then choosing english is the wrong option. Its a sad state of affairs when gareth southgate is the best english option. England's success will never change though anyway until there is a foreign player number cap of say 5 per squad and clubs start to hire english managers.
We've made our bed as they say The selection pool of a third of this tiny island is lesser than ever, not rocket science is it aaah that old, ill thought out and lazy chestnut! care to explain why we did no better in any major tournaments back in the 70s and 80s when we barely had any foreign players in the English leagues and virtually all managers in our leagues were english? nope? see, kinda ruins that argument in one fell swoop doesn't it really. clubs don't hire english managers if they're not good enough, the ones that are hired are hired because they are good enough...regardless of nationality. it's up to the managers themselves to step up and perform better, it's not up to any club to hire a manager simply because they're english. same goes for young, english players and with them, if anything, better foreign players coming in actually helps their development as they HAVE to get better if they want to get into the side and they can learn the basics they should have at grassroots but didn't because of the shamble of the setup in English football for decades when it comes to youth development; the rest of the world moved on in terms of skills they have to learn, the basics and the way the game is played whilst our FA were happy to stay in the 60s and keep to that style of "Development". do you just trot out what you hear in the media without ever thinking anything through yourself at all? it's sod all to do with anything other than how we, in england, deal with football at the grass roots level. it's slowly improving but will be another generation possibly until we start to see it bearing any real fruit. i must of imagined we won the world cup in 66 and got to the semi finals in 1990 only to miss out on a final by penalty shoot out loss. Its common sense if you want a better team then a bigger pool of players helps, count how many english lads start the next premiership league fixtures and how many start English clubs champions league campaigns. English clubs will go sign jonny foreigner now for peanuts, instead of developing. If you want example look close to home Not done a lot since the foreign invasion have we
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Post by ryan4england on Nov 16, 2016 14:39:45 GMT
English international football will be on its knees until
A) the national game becomes more important than the brand 'premiership'.
B) the money runs out
C) a different countries domestic league brings greater riches
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Post by ryan4england on Nov 16, 2016 14:41:55 GMT
18 million on imbula to scfc. Fine example, our money can blow foreign teams out of the water, even large foreign clubs with long history of success, great on the face of it but its detriment to english mational football. The premiership gravy train rules the roost, the national team is on the back seat.
Playing for england was once a pinnacle of a players career, not any more
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Post by ryan4england on Nov 16, 2016 14:51:50 GMT
Q) Considering this is english football why are 75% of the players foreign?
A) because its not english football its premiership football
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Nov 16, 2016 16:49:23 GMT
aaah that old, ill thought out and lazy chestnut! care to explain why we did no better in any major tournaments back in the 70s and 80s when we barely had any foreign players in the English leagues and virtually all managers in our leagues were english? nope? see, kinda ruins that argument in one fell swoop doesn't it really. clubs don't hire english managers if they're not good enough, the ones that are hired are hired because they are good enough...regardless of nationality. it's up to the managers themselves to step up and perform better, it's not up to any club to hire a manager simply because they're english. same goes for young, english players and with them, if anything, better foreign players coming in actually helps their development as they HAVE to get better if they want to get into the side and they can learn the basics they should have at grassroots but didn't because of the shamble of the setup in English football for decades when it comes to youth development; the rest of the world moved on in terms of skills they have to learn, the basics and the way the game is played whilst our FA were happy to stay in the 60s and keep to that style of "Development". do you just trot out what you hear in the media without ever thinking anything through yourself at all? it's sod all to do with anything other than how we, in england, deal with football at the grass roots level. it's slowly improving but will be another generation possibly until we start to see it bearing any real fruit. i must of imagined we won the world cup in 66 and got to the semi finals in 1990 only to miss out on a final by penalty shoot out loss. Its common sense if you want a better team then a bigger pool of players helps, count how many english lads start the next premiership league fixtures and how many start English clubs champions league campaigns. English clubs will go sign jonny foreigner now for peanuts, instead of developing. If you want example look close to home Not done a lot since the foreign invasion have we didn't we get to a semi and lose on pens at euro 96 after the "Foreign invasion" that the Prem brought with it ? oh yeah, we did or do we only include ones that fit your argument and forget the ones that don't?.....next!
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Post by ryan4england on Nov 16, 2016 17:10:21 GMT
i must of imagined we won the world cup in 66 and got to the semi finals in 1990 only to miss out on a final by penalty shoot out loss. Its common sense if you want a better team then a bigger pool of players helps, count how many english lads start the next premiership league fixtures and how many start English clubs champions league campaigns. English clubs will go sign jonny foreigner now for peanuts, instead of developing. If you want example look close to home Not done a lot since the foreign invasion have we didn't we get to a semi and lose on pens at euro 96 after the "Foreign invasion" that the Prem brought with it ? oh yeah, we did or do we only include ones that fit your argument and forget the ones that don't?.....next! there has never been as many foreign players & managers in the premiership as there is today, even the owners are foreign. You know im right aswell as i do. This money now that clubs are getting will make it a whole lot worse simply because why buy off another filthy rich club in england when you can literally steal players from abroad. Its like nature, take a certain animal out of the food chain it becomes unbalanced. Foreign players are the future because english top flight clubs can and will demand ridiculous fees for their players because we dont need the money and neither do they. Unless you are scfc of course....
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Post by thfc67 on Nov 16, 2016 18:00:27 GMT
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Post by JoeinOz on Nov 16, 2016 22:42:09 GMT
The darkest point for the England team was the 1970s when being Irish was exotic.
To say it's all because of too many foreign players is to miss several salient points.
The nature of the English game simply doesn't make for international success. Quintessentially English qualities are easily contained by any competent opposition. All you hear is the bullshit P word thrown around. Fast pace and hard tackles. Wow. Germany must be bricking it.
However, Spain have proven a football culture can change. I question if the English ate interested in doing so. That includes supporters too.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Nov 17, 2016 10:40:59 GMT
didn't we get to a semi and lose on pens at euro 96 after the "Foreign invasion" that the Prem brought with it ? oh yeah, we did or do we only include ones that fit your argument and forget the ones that don't?.....next! there has never been as many foreign players & managers in the premiership as there is today, even the owners are foreign. You know im right aswell as i do. This money now that clubs are getting will make it a whole lot worse simply because why buy off another filthy rich club in england when you can literally steal players from abroad. Its like nature, take a certain animal out of the food chain it becomes unbalanced. Foreign players are the future because english top flight clubs can and will demand ridiculous fees for their players because we dont need the money and neither do they. Unless you are scfc of course.... so ignore the evidence that proves your point to be wrong then and just accept what you're saying? great one! you've made exactly the same mistake as the FA did before they accepted (finally) it was down to grass roots i.e. ignore the many, many experts from all over the world they've had in and they've paid hundreds of thousands of pounds on to give reasons behind England's consistent "under performing" (and that's the point you're missing. it IS consistent and has been going on for decades BEFORE foreign players started coming in!!!!) and just grab the easiest and laziest excuse, even though it doesn't make any logical sense and can be very easily disproved. ONE (that's right one, just one no more) victory in a major tournament EVER, that happened 26 years before the foreign influx does not give any weight whatsoever to your argument, particularly when in that 26 years in between we also did fuck all. The FA know it's down to grassroots (the way kids learn the game, the skills they learn from a young age, the footballing intelligence that is now coached into youngsters rather than it staying a case of "You either have it or you don't" etc. etc.things that other countries have been doing for years while we have sat back and not progressed with our ideas at all and therefore not moved on like the rest of the world has) hence them finally starting to take steps to improve things but that won't happen overnight. just brushing it off as "Too many Johnny foreigners" is burying your head in the sand and completely failing to recognise the reality. well done Ryan, thanks for coming
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