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Post by capto on Jul 29, 2016 16:53:14 GMT
Come then how will we be better off for it????? Don't tell me when free movement is stopped and all those who came here looking to better themselves and pay their taxes fair and square have had to leave the country; their places in the NHS etc etc etc etc will be filled by the hordes of.................who exactly the ex pats who will have to come back home????? Like that's what's going to happen. Some people need to really get to grips with the difference between 'free movement' and working or travelling abroad. So, to really get to grips with the subject, what is the difference between free movement and working or travelling abroad in your brexit world?
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Post by starkiller on Jul 30, 2016 10:42:02 GMT
Like that's what's going to happen. Some people need to really get to grips with the difference between 'free movement' and working or travelling abroad. So, to really get to grips with the subject, what is the difference between free movement and working or travelling abroad in your brexit world? Working anywhere in the world usually requires 3 things: A job to go to Medical insurance No criminal record Sounds okay to me. Free movement means you can come to the UK as a criminal, with no job, and then get treated on the NHS, all paid for by uk taxpayers. Not being in the EU will stop no-one from being resident here if they fulfil those 3 basic requirements. It won't stop tourists either. Neither will it stop a British person from visiting or working anywhere in the world.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jul 30, 2016 11:28:07 GMT
But, but, but... Xenophobe!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 7:20:26 GMT
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Post by capto on Aug 6, 2016 15:58:55 GMT
so we are relying on a person who advised Thatcher on economic policy (??!!), who's in his '70's, disagreed with 360 odd other economists, and as reported in The Daily Express? The Daily Express!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 6, 2016 21:00:34 GMT
The Daily Express has gone mental! Every headline trying to convince us everything's going great and ignoring the obvious. Read the FT if you want the real economic news. It might be a Murdoch owned paper but its for grown ups so can't really get away with making up stuff.
I suppose its better than running Princess Diana stories every other day like the express did for about ten years!
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 6, 2016 21:04:26 GMT
The Daily Express has gone mental! Every headline trying to convince us everything's going great and ignoring the obvious. Read the FT if you want the real economic news. It might be a Murdoch owned paper but its for grown ups so can't really get away with making up stuff. I suppose its better than running Princess Diana stories every other day like they did for about ten years! you lost get over it, that is the only known fact we have regarding the brexit decision.
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Post by mtrstudent on Aug 6, 2016 23:43:40 GMT
This is great from the Express. "Unforgiving voters in France, Belgium, Spain and Italy want to make Brexit as painful as possible for Britain...28 per cent of Italians believe Britain should be punished." If 28 percent means Italian voters want to punish Britain, does that mean 48 percent means British voters want to remain in the EU? My dear old uncle used to get old copies of the Express from his neighbour to get the fire going. That's still too good for the Express.
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 7, 2016 3:09:26 GMT
So, to really get to grips with the subject, what is the difference between free movement and working or travelling abroad in your brexit world? Working anywhere in the world usually requires 3 things: A job to go to Medical insurance No criminal record Sounds okay to me. Free movement means you can come to the UK as a criminal, with no job, and then get treated on the NHS, all paid for by uk taxpayers. Not being in the EU will stop no-one from being resident here if they fulfil those 3 basic requirements. It won't stop tourists either. Neither will it stop a British person from visiting or working anywhere in the world. Actually most countries around the world require you to have a job to go to that a local person can't do. Time for all the Brexit voters to stand up and show that the layabouts in the UK will work if given the chance, because if they don't we're in trouble.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2016 6:30:18 GMT
so we are relying on a person who advised Thatcher on economic policy (??!!), who's in his '70's, disagreed with 360 odd other economists, and as reported in The Daily Express? The Daily Express! Are those other economists the ones that advised us to join the Euro back in the day? Ffs ladies and gentlemen .....the eu is, and has been going down the shit pipe for quite a while, and rightfully so. But don't worry yourselves too much, we haven't left and we won't be allowed to leave, because they couldn't survive without us...I mean our banking. So you'll get your wish to stay and be a slave to the Brussels massive, and when they've full control of us we'll be nothing more than a little north westerly island off the coast of France in a very similar state as Greece It's not just us brexiters that are sick of the eh you know.......open your eyes behind what they try to conceal ....many eu countries are split over the way the EU are governing It's only the governments of each country that are happy to keep their feet under the eu trough
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Post by Mendicant on Aug 7, 2016 6:47:48 GMT
So, to really get to grips with the subject, what is the difference between free movement and working or travelling abroad in your brexit world? Working anywhere in the world usually requires 3 things: A job to go to Medical insurance No criminal record Sounds okay to me. Free movement means you can come to the UK as a criminal, with no job, and then get treated on the NHS, all paid for by uk taxpayers. Not being in the EU will stop no-one from being resident here if they fulfil those 3 basic requirements. It won't stop tourists either. Neither will it stop a British person from visiting or working anywhere in the world. Any Briton reading that who risks losing a job in the EU because of work permit issues will be fine - all they have to do is inform the local authorities that starkiller off The Oatcake says it's ok. Please can I show them your post if they get a bit fussy?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 7, 2016 9:01:43 GMT
The Daily Express has gone mental! Every headline trying to convince us everything's going great and ignoring the obvious. Read the FT if you want the real economic news. It might be a Murdoch owned paper but its for grown ups so can't really get away with making up stuff. I suppose its better than running Princess Diana stories every other day like they did for about ten years! you lost get over it, that is the only known fact we have regarding the brexit decision. No mate I voted leave, I was suckered by the bullshit about 350 mill, I freely admit to it. I think we're all gonna lose out now, which is why I don't mind admitting my mistake. If others did the same, we could prevent the shit that is coming our way, but I suspect too many people, especially here, are too worried about losing face to do so. Probably why the express is trying so desperately hard to convince leave voters everything's rosey when it obviously ain't. You have to remember we're already in the shit and absolutely nothing has changed yet! What's it gonna be like if we start finding that all the changes that are needed fuck everything up even more? Doesn't bear thinking about.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 7, 2016 9:07:31 GMT
so we are relying on a person who advised Thatcher on economic policy (??!!), who's in his '70's, disagreed with 360 odd other economists, and as reported in The Daily Express? The Daily Express! Are those other economists the ones that advised us to join the Euro back in the day? Ffs ladies and gentlemen .....the eu is, and has been going down the shit pipe for quite a while, and rightfully so. But don't worry yourselves too much, we haven't left and we won't be allowed to leave, because they couldn't survive without us...I mean our banking. So you'll get your wish to stay and be a slave to the Brussels massive, and when they've full control of us we'll be nothing more than a little north westerly island off the coast of France in a very similar state as Greece It's not just us brexiters that are sick of the eh you know.......open your eyes behind what they try to conceal ....many eu countries are split over the way the EU are governing It's only the governments of each country that are happy to keep their feet under the eu trough Take away the banking passporting and most of our banks will relocate abroad. The EU will then be quite happy to see us piss off! It'll be this government that stops that happening not the EU but at what cost? Increasingly this all seems like a complete waste of time, money, debt, jobs and everything else this will waste.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Aug 7, 2016 9:25:42 GMT
Working anywhere in the world usually requires 3 things: A job to go to Medical insurance No criminal record Sounds okay to me. Free movement means you can come to the UK as a criminal, with no job, and then get treated on the NHS, all paid for by uk taxpayers. Not being in the EU will stop no-one from being resident here if they fulfil those 3 basic requirements. It won't stop tourists either. Neither will it stop a British person from visiting or working anywhere in the world. Any Briton reading that who risks losing a job in the EU because of work permit issues will be fine - all they have to do is inform the local authorities that starkiller off The Oatcake says it's ok. Please can I show them your post if they get a bit fussy? There are approximately 2.9 million EU nationals in the UK and approximately 1.2 million UK nationals in the EU. I don't think EU states will be penal over residency rules as what is agreed goes both ways.
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Post by boothenboy75 on Aug 7, 2016 9:54:09 GMT
Any Briton reading that who risks losing a job in the EU because of work permit issues will be fine - all they have to do is inform the local authorities that starkiller off The Oatcake says it's ok. Please can I show them your post if they get a bit fussy? There are approximately 2.9 million EU nationals in the UK and approximately 1.2 million UK nationals in the EU. I don't think EU states will be penal over residency rules as what is agreed goes both ways. Don't start bringing facts and figures into it. We're all doomed I tell you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2016 11:21:24 GMT
Are those other economists the ones that advised us to join the Euro back in the day? Ffs ladies and gentlemen .....the eu is, and has been going down the shit pipe for quite a while, and rightfully so. But don't worry yourselves too much, we haven't left and we won't be allowed to leave, because they couldn't survive without us...I mean our banking. So you'll get your wish to stay and be a slave to the Brussels massive, and when they've full control of us we'll be nothing more than a little north westerly island off the coast of France in a very similar state as Greece It's not just us brexiters that are sick of the eh you know.......open your eyes behind what they try to conceal ....many eu countries are split over the way the EU are governing It's only the governments of each country that are happy to keep their feet under the eu trough Take away the banking passporting and most of our banks will relocate abroad. The EU will then be quite happy to see us piss off! It'll be this government that stops that happening not the EU but at what cost? Increasingly this all seems like a complete waste of time, money, debt, jobs and everything else this will waste. Thanks for your input mystic meg
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Post by Mendicant on Aug 7, 2016 13:03:53 GMT
There are approximately 2.9 million EU nationals in the UK and approximately 1.2 million UK nationals in the EU. I don't think EU states will be penal over residency rules as what is agreed goes both ways. Don't start bringing facts and figures into it. We're all doomed I tell you. His basic point is speculative, he doesn't "think" future residency agreements will penalise British people living in the EU and vice versa. That's not a statement of fact. Doomed I tell you!!! :-(
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Aug 7, 2016 15:27:52 GMT
Don't start bringing facts and figures into it. We're all doomed I tell you. His basic point is speculative, he doesn't "think" future residency agreements will penalise British people living in the EU and vice versa. That's not a statement of fact. Doomed I tell you!!! :-( Actually my basic point is that it makes no sense at all that the UK or the EU will penalise existing residents if they meet certain basic criteria as have already been pointed out. A contract of employment, health insurance and an acceptable criminal record. If the EU did play hard ball with the 1.2M Brits abroad then we would just mirror the sanctions, during any negotiations, for the 2.9M EU nationals here so it won't happen. As an aside I can't help thinking that this subject is a little tricky for the Remainer's to bang their doomsday drum over. Almost a third (32%), of the 2.9M EU nationals or nearly one million people, are not classed as working, studying or 'other'. They are classed as 'looking for work' (or whisper it..... claiming benefits). That's 928,000 people officially 'looking for work'. Of the 1.2M UK nationals that live abroad 300,000 live in Spain, 250,000 live in Ireland and 190,000 live in France. Are they all signing on or are they retiree's with their own pensions, young professionals and families moving back to their extended family in Ireland or grape picking student types?? The truth is nobody knows. Unless you trawl through each countries immigration data you won't know why people are there. In fact the numbers in the UK are taken from passenger surveys conducted at airports so if you're like me and have never stopped for a questionnaire they'll never know why I'm there or for how long I plan to stay. Plus people could lie and then there's arrivals by sea etc, etc. But one "fact" from the Department of Work and Pensions is that 862,000 new National Insurance Numbers were issued for the 12 months ending September 2015. Of these 655,000 went to EU nationals. A NINo is generally required by any overseas national looking to work or claim benefits / tax credits in the UK, including the self employed or students working part timeNow this could be 655,000 hard working, tax paying, mime artists from Paris or............ not.
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Post by Mendicant on Aug 7, 2016 20:36:58 GMT
His basic point is speculative, he doesn't "think" future residency agreements will penalise British people living in the EU and vice versa. That's not a statement of fact. Doomed I tell you!!! :-( Actually my basic point is that it makes no sense at all that the UK or the EU will penalise existing residents if they meet certain basic criteria as have already been pointed out. A contract of employment, health insurance and an acceptable criminal record. If the EU did play hard ball with the 1.2M Brits abroad then we would just mirror the sanctions, during any negotiations, for the 2.9M EU nationals here so it won't happen. As an aside I can't help thinking that this subject is a little tricky for the Remainer's to bang their doomsday drum over. Almost a third (32%), of the 2.9M EU nationals or nearly one million people, are not classed as working, studying or 'other'. They are classed as 'looking for work' (or whisper it..... claiming benefits). That's 928,000 people officially 'looking for work'. Of the 1.2M UK nationals that live abroad 300,000 live in Spain, 250,000 live in Ireland and 190,000 live in France. Are they all signing on or are they retiree's with their own pensions, young professionals and families moving back to their extended family in Ireland or grape picking student types?? The truth is nobody knows. Unless you trawl through each countries immigration data you won't know why people are there. In fact the numbers in the UK are taken from passenger surveys conducted at airports so if you're like me and have never stopped for a questionnaire they'll never know why I'm there or for how long I plan to stay. Plus people could lie and then there's arrivals by sea etc, etc. But one "fact" from the Department of Work and Pensions is that 862,000 new National Insurance Numbers were issued for the 12 months ending September 2015. Of these 655,000 went to EU nationals. A NINo is generally required by any overseas national looking to work or claim benefits / tax credits in the UK, including the self employed or students working part timeNow this could be 655,000 hard working, tax paying, mime artists from Paris or............ not. All the statistics in the world won't write the future nor make it fact. There may be a disincentive for EU states to restrict residency and working rights to the British, for fear of us doing the same, as you say. This doesn't make it a fact that everything will work out that way, that's what I'm saying. Many of the comments on here by Leavers before the vote gave complacent predictions that we'll be "like Norway", "Europe needs us" or made the argument that you've put forward. Europe must agree to it and that is not a given by any means, not least because giving Britain a comfortable win-win exit sets a dangerous example to other nations. This will not end well for Britain, that's my expectation, but don't take it as fact.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Aug 7, 2016 23:44:08 GMT
Actually my basic point is that it makes no sense at all that the UK or the EU will penalise existing residents if they meet certain basic criteria as have already been pointed out. A contract of employment, health insurance and an acceptable criminal record. If the EU did play hard ball with the 1.2M Brits abroad then we would just mirror the sanctions, during any negotiations, for the 2.9M EU nationals here so it won't happen. As an aside I can't help thinking that this subject is a little tricky for the Remainer's to bang their doomsday drum over. Almost a third (32%), of the 2.9M EU nationals or nearly one million people, are not classed as working, studying or 'other'. They are classed as 'looking for work' (or whisper it..... claiming benefits). That's 928,000 people officially 'looking for work'. Of the 1.2M UK nationals that live abroad 300,000 live in Spain, 250,000 live in Ireland and 190,000 live in France. Are they all signing on or are they retiree's with their own pensions, young professionals and families moving back to their extended family in Ireland or grape picking student types?? The truth is nobody knows. Unless you trawl through each countries immigration data you won't know why people are there. In fact the numbers in the UK are taken from passenger surveys conducted at airports so if you're like me and have never stopped for a questionnaire they'll never know why I'm there or for how long I plan to stay. Plus people could lie and then there's arrivals by sea etc, etc. But one "fact" from the Department of Work and Pensions is that 862,000 new National Insurance Numbers were issued for the 12 months ending September 2015. Of these 655,000 went to EU nationals. A NINo is generally required by any overseas national looking to work or claim benefits / tax credits in the UK, including the self employed or students working part timeNow this could be 655,000 hard working, tax paying, mime artists from Paris or............ not. All the statistics in the world won't write the future nor make it fact. There may be a disincentive for EU states to restrict residency and working rights to the British, for fear of us doing the same, as you say. This doesn't make it a fact that everything will work out that way, that's what I'm saying. Many of the comments on here by Leavers before the vote gave complacent predictions that we'll be "like Norway", "Europe needs us" or made the argument that you've put forward. Europe must agree to it and that is not a given by any means, not least because giving Britain a comfortable win-win exit sets a dangerous example to other nations. This will not end well for Britain, that's my expectation, but don't take it as fact. But you are aware that statistics from the past are facts and are used for predicting future trends? Like, a high number of road traffic accidents on a certain piece of road means that speed restrictions and cameras are installed for the future. Or, a shit load of Turkeys got sold last Christmas but as you say that doesn't make it a fact for next Christmas but you know what, I'll bet you 50p a shit load get sold again come December. Merkel and Hollande might both be fighting elections next year. Hollande has a record low approval rating so much so that he might not run again. Sarkozy has confirmed he's running and has already stated that the Schengen visa system should be reassessed and all foreigners on terrorist watch lists should be deported. Or there's Marine Le Pen. Merkel's approval rating has dipped since the Bavarian terror attacks. They'll both be too concerned about their futures to put nearly 3 million EU nationals at a disadvantage by some 'tough' stance on residency rules for Brits abroad. It's interesting that you say "sets a dangerous principle". What's dangerous about it? We had a referendum. We voted out. Why are they not saying "fine, crack on. No hard feelings. Thanks for the all that money over 40 years. We wouldn't be where we are without you. Good luck". Even if they didn't fucking mean it!
Why the threat of punishing us? Punish us for what? Not wanting to be in their gang? Punish us for holding a democratic process that was observed by 40 other nations as the way to hold a referendum and I'm talking about the process not the bullshit political statements.
Anyone who wants to punish you for leaving their club is doing it to control others or to hide the truth or both.
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Post by starkiller on Aug 8, 2016 4:24:42 GMT
Working anywhere in the world usually requires 3 things: A job to go to Medical insurance No criminal record Sounds okay to me. Free movement means you can come to the UK as a criminal, with no job, and then get treated on the NHS, all paid for by uk taxpayers. Not being in the EU will stop no-one from being resident here if they fulfil those 3 basic requirements. It won't stop tourists either. Neither will it stop a British person from visiting or working anywhere in the world. Any Briton reading that who risks losing a job in the EU because of work permit issues will be fine - all they have to do is inform the local authorities that starkiller off The Oatcake says it's ok. Please can I show them your post if they get a bit fussy? If true, maybe we can use your post as evidence that the EU needs to have a look at the rest of the world and see how they manage without impending disaster.
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Post by Mendicant on Aug 8, 2016 5:55:45 GMT
Any Briton reading that who risks losing a job in the EU because of work permit issues will be fine - all they have to do is inform the local authorities that starkiller off The Oatcake says it's ok. Please can I show them your post if they get a bit fussy? If true, maybe we can use your post as evidence that the EU needs to have a look at the rest of the world and see how they manage without impending disaster. If you walk down the street and are heading towards a dog turd on the pavement, and someone warns you that you're likely to tread in the dog turd, is that person a doom mongerer? There you were happily walking down the street and someone starts banging on about dog shit, some people eh! Or is it someone who predicts that a course of action will likely have a bad outcome, ie dog shit on the shoe? Whether or not you tread in the turd or step over it unseen does not change the fact that there's dog shit on the pavement. I'm telling you that there's dog shit on the pavement.
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Post by manmarking on Aug 8, 2016 6:40:57 GMT
If true, maybe we can use your post as evidence that the EU needs to have a look at the rest of the world and see how they manage without impending disaster. If you walk down the street and are heading towards a dog turd on the pavement, and someone warns you that you're likely to tread in the dog turd, is that person a doom mongerer? There you were happily walking down the street and someone starts banging on about dog shit, some people eh! Or is it someone who predicts that a course of action will likely have a bad outcome, ie dog shit on the shoe? Whether or not you tread in the turd or step over it unseen does not change the fact that there's dog shit on the pavement. I'm telling you that there's dog shit on the pavement. There's an equally valid argument to say that there was a load of dog shit on the pavement if we'd voted Remain. The EU is on a completely untenable course, creating countless huge problems for tomorrow in countries like Greece, Ireland etc. Even in Germany, their famed prudence apparently translates as a lack of investment in basic infrastructure that'll bite them on the arse sooner or later.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 6:42:53 GMT
If true, maybe we can use your post as evidence that the EU needs to have a look at the rest of the world and see how they manage without impending disaster. If you walk down the street and are heading towards a dog turd on the pavement, and someone warns you that you're likely to tread in the dog turd, is that person a doom mongerer? There you were happily walking down the street and someone starts banging on about dog shit, some people eh! Or is it someone who predicts that a course of action will likely have a bad outcome, ie dog shit on the shoe? Whether or not you tread in the turd or step over it unseen does not change the fact that there's dog shit on the pavement. I'm telling you that there's dog shit on the pavement. Well, we can all see where the EU is going, it's doing absolute shit compared to the rest of the world .....FACT. So, are you prepared to rub said shit all around your mush?
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Post by Mendicant on Aug 8, 2016 7:05:28 GMT
If you walk down the street and are heading towards a dog turd on the pavement, and someone warns you that you're likely to tread in the dog turd, is that person a doom mongerer? There you were happily walking down the street and someone starts banging on about dog shit, some people eh! Or is it someone who predicts that a course of action will likely have a bad outcome, ie dog shit on the shoe? Whether or not you tread in the turd or step over it unseen does not change the fact that there's dog shit on the pavement. I'm telling you that there's dog shit on the pavement. Well, we can all see where the EU is going, it's doing absolute shit compared to the rest of the world .....FACT. So, are you prepared to rub said shit all around your mush? "The EU is doing absolute shit compared to the rest of the world... FACT"? If I wanted shit round my mush I'd print out that post and use it as a napkin 😃 That's if the printer doesn't burst into flames what with me being one of them doom mongerers and everything.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 7:27:41 GMT
Well, we can all see where the EU is going, it's doing absolute shit compared to the rest of the world .....FACT. So, are you prepared to rub said shit all around your mush? "The EU is doing absolute shit compared to the rest of the world... FACT"? If I wanted shit round my mush I'd print out that post and use it as a napkin 😃 That's if the printer doesn't burst into flames what with me being one of them doom mongerers and everything.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2016 6:39:06 GMT
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Post by ihaveadream on Aug 18, 2016 13:25:23 GMT
Is the french word for dogturd "un merde du chein"
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 18, 2016 13:41:20 GMT
Is the french word for dogturd "un merde du chein" I would have thought that a Europe lover like yourself would have known such things, by the way have you sorted out which continent you wanted back
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Post by ihaveadream on Aug 18, 2016 16:08:37 GMT
Is the french word for dogturd "un merde du chein" I would have thought that a Europe lover like yourself would have known such things, by the way have you sorted out which continent you wanted back Have you sorted out which country you wanted back? The original form of the expression came from Brexiters after all.
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