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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 28, 2016 19:08:09 GMT
You totally misunderstand my views on the England team. The deficiencies now are the same deficiencies we have had for over 40 years. As I have pointed out by atuff Ive written ages ago and shown you. But even without a replacement on hand he had to go after that aberration. And the next manager whoever it is wont do much better but we surely will be spared a humiliating shit like last night. Although you must be pleased with the outcome. You feel like you have made point and that was the main thing eh?? Pleased? Gutted. Absolutely gutted. The only positive word I'd use is vindicated because I've had a kicking from people on the oatcake, including yourself. My opinions before were motivated by logic, while people said I was merely trying to dick measure. No, I wasn't. at the start of May you said you wanted us get knocked out to get rid of the manager.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 28, 2016 19:12:11 GMT
Pleased? Gutted. Absolutely gutted. The only positive word I'd use is vindicated because I've had a kicking from people on the oatcake, including yourself. My opinions before were motivated by logic, while people said I was merely trying to dick measure. No, I wasn't. at the start of May you said you wanted us get knocked out to get rid of the manager. I don't remember saying I wanted us out. I said I would laugh when it inevitably happens because people were failing to see the problems. perhaps I was onto something eh?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2016 19:14:45 GMT
Sometimes I look at this thread and read it as
Hodgson RE - SIGNS
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 28, 2016 22:13:39 GMT
at the start of May you said you wanted us get knocked out to get rid of the manager. I don't remember saying I wanted us out. I said I would laugh when it inevitably happens because people were failing to see the problems. perhaps I was onto something eh? If we had gone out on Sunday to France you would be preening like this. Look, a new manager won't make a huge amount of difference. It might mean the next exit isn't this shit but little more than that. Roy had to go. In fact second half of the Wales game I thought he had to go. But that isn't the only issue. And one problem is everyonewants change but nobody wants anything to be different. I include us supporters in that too.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 28, 2016 23:58:18 GMT
I don't remember saying I wanted us out. I said I would laugh when it inevitably happens because people were failing to see the problems. perhaps I was onto something eh? If we had gone out on Sunday to France you would be preening like this. Look, a new manager won't make a huge amount of difference. It might mean the next exit isn't this shit but little more than that. Roy had to go. In fact second half of the Wales game I thought he had to go. But that isn't the only issue. And one problem is everyonewants change but nobody wants anything to be different. I include us supporters in that too. I want players to be picked on ability, not club. There you go, I want something different.
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Post by kustokie on Jun 29, 2016 0:27:30 GMT
The writing was on the wall after the Russia match. After that, it just a matter of time.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2016 10:38:04 GMT
If we had gone out on Sunday to France you would be preening like this. Look, a new manager won't make a huge amount of difference. It might mean the next exit isn't this shit but little more than that. Roy had to go. In fact second half of the Wales game I thought he had to go. But that isn't the only issue. And one problem is everyonewants change but nobody wants anything to be different. I include us supporters in that too. I want players to be picked on ability, not club. There you go, I want something different. And me mate. But the best England has to offer, whatever club they play for, doesn't match what other nations do. That isn't just ability mind you. It's a combination of things. Nobody questions Delle Ali's ability but he was so poor because of his limitations, the same limitations that dog English players all the time. They are the deeper, much deeper things to address.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 29, 2016 10:52:55 GMT
The art of management is to get the employees to perform to the best of their ability and implement a successful strategy. Most of the team had their worst performance ever in an England shirt and seemed devoid of any idea as to what to do.
If it was a one off, as Hodgson seemed to suggest, it might be understandable, but we were knocked out of the last WC finals in 5 days due to 2 very poor performances. Hodgson built his reputation largely with teams playing second rate opposition. He continued this with good runs in the qualifying stages of the the last two tournaments. He is not able to manage sides against top class opposition or even in the case of Iceland a side who is prepared to give their all for their country.
Unfortunately as in politics, the country seems bereft of quality leaders.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 29, 2016 11:48:19 GMT
I want players to be picked on ability, not club. There you go, I want something different. And me mate. But the best England has to offer, whatever club they play for, doesn't match what other nations do. That isn't just ability mind you. It's a combination of things. Nobody questions Delle Ali's ability but he was so poor because of his limitations, the same limitations that dog English players all the time. They are the deeper, much deeper things to address. If there's anything you/we should have learnt from Tony Pulis, it's that when you're lacking any actual talent, a good manager will play to the strengths of the team and promote a strong team mentality. Pulis did that successfully with Stoke for several seasons it was a successful formula up until the last couple of seasons. Against Iceland, it was crying out for a player like Andy Carroll but Roy was too arrogant to pick him before the tournament. Not a fashionable. Instead, Woys Boys walked us out the tournament in embarrassing fashion while proper team players (Noble, Drinkwater, etc) were left to watch at home. Iceland on the other hand played to their strengths and had an incredible team mentality. They deserved their win. Roys interviews since our exit say all you need to know. He had lowered expectations to the point that he could justify our loss by saying "these things happen". He's a liar and a prick. Unfortunately, I was calling it months ago. Shame nobody listened.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2016 11:54:19 GMT
And me mate. But the best England has to offer, whatever club they play for, doesn't match what other nations do. That isn't just ability mind you. It's a combination of things. Nobody questions Delle Ali's ability but he was so poor because of his limitations, the same limitations that dog English players all the time. They are the deeper, much deeper things to address. If there's anything you/we should have learnt from Tony Pulis, it's that when you're lacking any actual talent, a good manager will play to the strengths of the team and promote a strong team mentality. Pulis did that successfully with Stoke for several seasons it was a successful formula up until the last couple of seasons. Against Iceland, it was crying out for a player like Andy Carroll but Roy was too arrogant to pick him before the tournament. Not a fashionable. Instead, Woys Boys walked us out the tournament in embarrassing fashion while proper team players (Noble, Drinkwater, etc) were left to watch at home. Iceland on the other hand played to their strengths and had an incredible team mentality. They deserved their win. Roys interviews since our exit say all you need to know. He had lowered expectations to the point that he could justify our loss by saying "these things happen". He's a liar and a prick. Unfortunately, I was calling it months ago. Shame nobody listened. I've been saying it for 25 years an nobody listened. I was smirking at talk of a golden generation when people were confidently predicting a world cup final in Germany. Don't go thinking you are some sort of nogger prophet. Predicting an England tournament exit is like predicting Christmas coming in December.
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Post by onionman on Jun 29, 2016 13:44:08 GMT
I don't remember saying I wanted us out. I said I would laugh when it inevitably happens because people were failing to see the problems. perhaps I was onto something eh? If we had gone out on Sunday to France you would be preening like this. Look, a new manager won't make a huge amount of difference. It might mean the next exit isn't this shit but little more than that. Roy had to go. In fact second half of the Wales game I thought he had to go. But that isn't the only issue. And one problem is everyonewants change but nobody wants anything to be different. I include us supporters in that too. You're right, Joe: as soon as August comes round, all angry England supporters everywhere will forget about the Euros and jump back on the Premier League bandwagon which is really the root of the England football team's problems. As Stoke fans, we got excited about the future of English football when we watched Dele Alli and Harry Kane run rings around Phil Bardsley and Phillip Wollscheid. But as long as anyone showing a little bit of ability is praised from the rooftops and paid a king's ransom for scoring hatfuls of goals against Stoke, Sunderland and Crystal Palace, they'll never have the incentive to take their own game to a higher level by going to play abroad for example. Then when they finally have to play a high-pressure match against a high-class opposition, without being supported by their more intelligent, technically superior club team-mates, they don't have the experience, intelligence or skills to succeed. Even a strong manager, with a mind of his own, who's prepared to overlook the hype of big-name, big-club players and pick players based on form, would still have an impossible task. Let's be honest, Mark Noble or Danny Drinkwater wouldn't have turned us into world beaters. Both have had great seasons, doing what was required alongside brilliant colleagues from France and Algeria. As did Vardy, and then when his clever team-mates were removed, he was lost: the same thing that happened when Frank Lampard had to play without Essien and Makelele, Gerrard had to play without Alonso and Rooney without Ronaldo/Tevez/Berbatov. From Frank Lampard to Harry Kane, Scott Parker to Jordan Henderson, Steve McLaren to Gareth Southgate, Fabio Capello to whichever of the world's elite managers we appoint after Southgate, it's all just shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic until the Premier League bubble finally bursts. And that really is the only answer. The money-orientated, overhyped Premier League needs to implode so that we can basically start again. Has Str8outtahampton cut and pasted his prediction for the 2018 World Cup yet?
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2016 13:53:41 GMT
If we had gone out on Sunday to France you would be preening like this. Look, a new manager won't make a huge amount of difference. It might mean the next exit isn't this shit but little more than that. Roy had to go. In fact second half of the Wales game I thought he had to go. But that isn't the only issue. And one problem is everyonewants change but nobody wants anything to be different. I include us supporters in that too. You're right, Joe: as soon as August comes round, all angry England supporters everywhere will forget about the Euros and jump back on the Premier League bandwagon which is really the root of the England football team's problems. As Stoke fans, we got excited about the future of English football when we watched Dele Alli and Harry Kane run rings around Phil Bardsley and Phillip Wollscheid. But as long as anyone showing a little bit of ability is praised from the rooftops and paid a king's ransom for scoring hatfuls of goals against Stoke, Sunderland and Crystal Palace, they'll never have the incentive to take their own game to a higher level by going to play abroad for example. Then when they finally have to play a high-pressure match against a high-class opposition, without being supported by their more intelligent, technically superior club team-mates, they don't have the experience, intelligence or skills to succeed. Even a strong manager, with a mind of his own, who's prepared to overlook the hype of big-name, big-club players and pick players based on form, would still have an impossible task. Let's be honest, Mark Noble or Danny Drinkwater wouldn't have turned us into world beaters. Both have had great seasons, doing what was required alongside brilliant colleagues from France and Algeria. As did Vardy, and then when his clever team-mates were removed, he was lost: the same thing that happened when Frank Lampard had to play without Essien and Makelele, Gerrard had to play without Alonso and Rooney without Ronaldo/Tevez/Berbatov. From Frank Lampard to Harry Kane, Scott Parker to Jordan Henderson, Steve McLaren to Gareth Southgate, Fabio Capello to whichever of the world's elite managers we appoint after Southgate, it's all just shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic until the Premier League bubble finally bursts. And that really is the only answer. The money-orientated, overhyped Premier League needs to implode so that we can basically start again. Has Str8outtahampton cut and pasted his prediction for the 2018 World Cup yet? English players are inferior. Was there any continental interest in Sterling? It's gone on for years. when Paul ince was the most influential player in England and the shit had just become the top dog he went to Inter and they didn't rate him. And the point is Ince applied himself changed his game and became a very good player there. This is why we need English players overseas varying their games and growing as people as well as players.
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Post by onionman on Jun 29, 2016 14:08:11 GMT
You're right, Joe: as soon as August comes round, all angry England supporters everywhere will forget about the Euros and jump back on the Premier League bandwagon which is really the root of the England football team's problems. As Stoke fans, we got excited about the future of English football when we watched Dele Alli and Harry Kane run rings around Phil Bardsley and Phillip Wollscheid. But as long as anyone showing a little bit of ability is praised from the rooftops and paid a king's ransom for scoring hatfuls of goals against Stoke, Sunderland and Crystal Palace, they'll never have the incentive to take their own game to a higher level by going to play abroad for example. Then when they finally have to play a high-pressure match against a high-class opposition, without being supported by their more intelligent, technically superior club team-mates, they don't have the experience, intelligence or skills to succeed. Even a strong manager, with a mind of his own, who's prepared to overlook the hype of big-name, big-club players and pick players based on form, would still have an impossible task. Let's be honest, Mark Noble or Danny Drinkwater wouldn't have turned us into world beaters. Both have had great seasons, doing what was required alongside brilliant colleagues from France and Algeria. As did Vardy, and then when his clever team-mates were removed, he was lost: the same thing that happened when Frank Lampard had to play without Essien and Makelele, Gerrard had to play without Alonso and Rooney without Ronaldo/Tevez/Berbatov. From Frank Lampard to Harry Kane, Scott Parker to Jordan Henderson, Steve McLaren to Gareth Southgate, Fabio Capello to whichever of the world's elite managers we appoint after Southgate, it's all just shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic until the Premier League bubble finally bursts. And that really is the only answer. The money-orientated, overhyped Premier League needs to implode so that we can basically start again. Has Str8outtahampton cut and pasted his prediction for the 2018 World Cup yet? English players are inferior. Was there any continental interest in Sterling? It's gone on for years. when Paul ince was the most influential player in England and the shit had just become the top dog he went to Inter and they didn't rate him. And the point is Ince applied himself changed his game and became a very good player there. This is why we need English players overseas varying their games and growing as people as well as players. Sterling had one good season - playing alongside Suarez, who was basically so brilliant he occupied the entire opposition defence and created ridiculous amounts of space for his team-mates. When Sterling has had to make things happen for himself, he's failed miserably. The top continental teams wouldn't want him, but the smaller ones might, the mid-table Serie A and La Liga teams. But there's no incentive for him to go there when the Premier League rewards mediocrity so handsomely. Absolutely right about Ince. Gerrard and Lampard would have been laughed out of town with their Roy of the Rovers approach if they'd gone overseas. They'd have had to rethink their games and come up with alternative strategies to taking 30-yard last-minute pot shots whenever the going gets tough, in the forlorn hope of reliving the dream of the 2006 FA Cup final. Kane, Alli and Sturridge's biggest failings in this tournament were that they didn't know what to do when the chips were down. They need to develop in an environment where they have to think for themselves, and where technical skills and intelligence are all important.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2016 14:15:36 GMT
English players are inferior. Was there any continental interest in Sterling? It's gone on for years. when Paul ince was the most influential player in England and the shit had just become the top dog he went to Inter and they didn't rate him. And the point is Ince applied himself changed his game and became a very good player there. This is why we need English players overseas varying their games and growing as people as well as players. Sterling had one good season - playing alongside Suarez, who was basically so brilliant he occupied the entire opposition defence and created ridiculous amounts of space for his team-mates. When Sterling has had to make things happen for himself, he's failed miserably. The top continental teams wouldn't want him, but the smaller ones might, the mid-table Serie A and La Liga teams. But there's no incentive for him to go there when the Premier League rewards mediocrity so handsomely. Absolutely right about Ince. Gerrard and Lampard would have been laughed out of town with their Roy of the Rovers approach if they'd gone overseas. They'd have had to rethink their games and come up with alternative strategies to taking 30-yard last-minute pot shots whenever the going gets tough, in the forlorn hope of reliving the dream of the 2006 FA Cup final. Kane, Alli and Sturridge's biggest failings in this tournament were that they didn't know what to do when the chips were down. They need to develop in an environment where they have to think for themselves, and where technical skills and intelligence are all important. Lampard and Gerrard never managed to work it out how to play together. That speaks volumes. Two very established England players couldn't devise between them a method of them both being involved and influential. That says it all. English = bang average.
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Post by onionman on Jun 29, 2016 14:29:28 GMT
Sterling had one good season - playing alongside Suarez, who was basically so brilliant he occupied the entire opposition defence and created ridiculous amounts of space for his team-mates. When Sterling has had to make things happen for himself, he's failed miserably. The top continental teams wouldn't want him, but the smaller ones might, the mid-table Serie A and La Liga teams. But there's no incentive for him to go there when the Premier League rewards mediocrity so handsomely. Absolutely right about Ince. Gerrard and Lampard would have been laughed out of town with their Roy of the Rovers approach if they'd gone overseas. They'd have had to rethink their games and come up with alternative strategies to taking 30-yard last-minute pot shots whenever the going gets tough, in the forlorn hope of reliving the dream of the 2006 FA Cup final. Kane, Alli and Sturridge's biggest failings in this tournament were that they didn't know what to do when the chips were down. They need to develop in an environment where they have to think for themselves, and where technical skills and intelligence are all important. Lampard and Gerrard never managed to work it out how to play together. That speaks volumes. Two very established England players couldn't devise between them a method of them both being involved and influential. That says it all. English = bang average. When there was talk of Rooney being left out of the squad for this tournament, Gerrard made a comment that we need Wayne because he knows what to do when the going gets tough, because of his previous tournament experience. "Knowing what to do when the going gets tough" as far as Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney is concerned, means shooting from further and further out, and dribbling more and more desperately in the hope something that hasn't worked in every previous match will suddenly work today. The football equivalent of trying to get your message across to someone who doesn't speak English by shouting louder at them in English.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 29, 2016 14:33:53 GMT
Lampard and Gerrard never managed to work it out how to play together. That speaks volumes. Two very established England players couldn't devise between them a method of them both being involved and influential. That says it all. English = bang average. When there was talk of Rooney being left out of the squad for this tournament, Gerrard made a comment that we need Wayne because he knows what to do when the going gets tough, because of his previous tournament experience. "Knowing what to do when the going gets tough" as far as Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney is concerned, means shooting from further and further out, and dribbling more and more desperately in the hope something that hasn't worked in every previous match will suddenly work today. The football equivalent of trying to get your message across to someone who doesn't speak English by shouting louder at them in English. Yep that's a good way of putting it. Really they were just doing what they been brought up to do.... stick with what they know and keep their heads down.
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Post by senojbor on Jun 29, 2016 18:03:00 GMT
Sorry Joe but if you think our England team isn't good enough to see off the likes of Iceland I'm saying you are wrong. It's squarely down to the Hodgson and his selection and tactics.
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Post by drjeffsdiscobarge on Jun 29, 2016 18:18:53 GMT
If we had gone out on Sunday to France you would be preening like this. Look, a new manager won't make a huge amount of difference. It might mean the next exit isn't this shit but little more than that. Roy had to go. In fact second half of the Wales game I thought he had to go. But that isn't the only issue. And one problem is everyonewants change but nobody wants anything to be different. I include us supporters in that too. I want players to be picked on ability, not club. There you go, I want something different. This is a huge part of the problem in my humble. Ive said before that im convinced the fa have a say in squad selections nowadays. Its a result of the huge corporate sponsorship deals in place. They are worried a squad full of players from leicester, west ham, southampton, stoke etc wont be as sexy to their global sponsors. Only when they have to resort to a manager who will tell them bollocks will it change. Its a fucking part time job, so a retired old cunt like fergusson (putting aside your feelings for the man himself) who is too arrogant to take their shite might ne the answer
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Post by kustokie on Jun 29, 2016 19:51:01 GMT
I am going to have another go at bringing up the comment of Michael Ballack that most of the England players are disadvantaged by the fact that most had no Champions League experience last season. It's a fact that most did not have any CL experience last season (Cahill, Hart, Sterling, and Rooney. Rashford and Ramsey were on CL teams' squad, but didn't play much). So, the question is did the lack of CL experience hurt the English players? Certainly, England played poorly, but was the lack of CL experience a contributing factor.? The general consensus on this board prior to the tournament was that the lack of CL would not hurt the players because they played in the most competitive league in the world and they were challenged week in and week out at the highest level. I don't believe lack of CL experience was the main reason why we failed. (I believe that was poor preparation by the coaching staff and poor decisions during the tournament). However, there is certainly a correlation between poor performance and the number of England players playing in the PL - it's 100%. I believe the PL had 34 players in the Euros, which was the highest participation rate of any of the league in Europe. Since all the English players were in the PL that leaves only 11 that played for other countries (of which 4 played for Stoke and all 4 have gone home). So that leaves a maximum of 7 players left that may still be in the quarter finals and most play for Wales (I think). The remaining 177 play in other leagues. So this leads to the conclusion that while the PL may be the most competitive and entertaining league in the world, most of the very top players play elsewhere for the top teams that get CL experience season after season. Is it cause and effect or simply a coincidence? I don't know but I am interested to learn other peoples' opinions.
EDIT: I forgot Smalling - there may be others.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 30, 2016 6:38:03 GMT
If there's anything you/we should have learnt from Tony Pulis, it's that when you're lacking any actual talent, a good manager will play to the strengths of the team and promote a strong team mentality. Pulis did that successfully with Stoke for several seasons it was a successful formula up until the last couple of seasons. Against Iceland, it was crying out for a player like Andy Carroll but Roy was too arrogant to pick him before the tournament. Not a fashionable. Instead, Woys Boys walked us out the tournament in embarrassing fashion while proper team players (Noble, Drinkwater, etc) were left to watch at home. Iceland on the other hand played to their strengths and had an incredible team mentality. They deserved their win. Roys interviews since our exit say all you need to know. He had lowered expectations to the point that he could justify our loss by saying "these things happen". He's a liar and a prick. Unfortunately, I was calling it months ago. Shame nobody listened. I've been saying it for 25 years an nobody listened. I was smirking at talk of a golden generation when people were confidently predicting a world cup final in Germany. Don't go thinking you are some sort of nogger prophet. Predicting an England tournament exit is like predicting Christmas coming in December. The 'golden generation' were worlds apart from this squad. They were a fluke free kick, a wrongly disallowed goal and a stupid mistake by Wayne Rooney away from perhaps winning all three of those tournaments. I'm not saying I'm a nogger prophet, but in my opinion, it's the media and honest journalists that should be calling this shit out, however there appears to be this mutual relationship where they will not criticize. I think most supporters could see the problems from miles off mate.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 30, 2016 6:41:13 GMT
BBC have just announced that Southgate has ruled himself out of the England job. Good decision imho.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 30, 2016 6:50:47 GMT
I've been saying it for 25 years an nobody listened. I was smirking at talk of a golden generation when people were confidently predicting a world cup final in Germany. Don't go thinking you are some sort of nogger prophet. Predicting an England tournament exit is like predicting Christmas coming in December. The 'golden generation' were worlds apart from this squad. They were a fluke free kick, a wrongly disallowed goal and a stupid mistake by Wayne Rooney away from perhaps winning all three of those tournaments. I'm not saying I'm a nogger prophet, but in my opinion, it's the media and honest journalists that should be calling this shit out, however there appears to be this mutual relationship where they will not criticize. I think most supporters could see the problems from miles off mate. You have just done what the problem is. Instead of facing the fact England are mediocre you suggest a few bits of misfortune stopped us winning trophies. Do you really believe that? In wach of those games we could have took control but were incapable.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 30, 2016 6:52:08 GMT
I want players to be picked on ability, not club. There you go, I want something different. This is a huge part of the problem in my humble. Ive said before that im convinced the fa have a say in squad selections nowadays. Its a result of the huge corporate sponsorship deals in place. They are worried a squad full of players from leicester, west ham, southampton, stoke etc wont be as sexy to their global sponsors. Only when they have to resort to a manager who will tell them bollocks will it change. Its a fucking part time job, so a retired old cunt like fergusson (putting aside your feelings for the man himself) who is too arrogant to take their shite might ne the answer This is exactly how I feel. The FA seem to have a bigger influence on team selection than people realize. I read an article the other day that suggested the biggest number of Indian football fans would be watching England vs Iceland. Considering the FA and PL market the English game towards far eastern countries, you do have to wonder where their priorities lie. We have a new season coming soon and we all know that's where the money lies. I thought Martin Glenn summed up the FA perfectly when he said "I'm not a football man" (despite picking the new manager).... Neither is anyone else at the FA Martin, you're in good company.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 30, 2016 6:58:06 GMT
The 'golden generation' were worlds apart from this squad. They were a fluke free kick, a wrongly disallowed goal and a stupid mistake by Wayne Rooney away from perhaps winning all three of those tournaments. I'm not saying I'm a nogger prophet, but in my opinion, it's the media and honest journalists that should be calling this shit out, however there appears to be this mutual relationship where they will not criticize. I think most supporters could see the problems from miles off mate. You have just done what the problem is. Instead of facing the fact England are mediocre you suggest a few bits of misfortune stopped us winning trophies. Do you really believe that? In wach of those games we could have took control but were incapable. Joe, I think there are different levels of mediocre. The 'golden generation' had at least 5 world class players when you consider it. This current squad had none. Not one imo. I'm not suggesting misfortune was the basis behind those tournament failures. Seaman was past his best and the fact we had failed to address contributed directly to that game which we lost. You cannot deny that 2004, England were wrongly punished by the disallowed goal. As for 2006, well, young Mr Rooney was stupid and that meant we took it to pens. I think our inability to win shootouts is another thing that was never addressed.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 30, 2016 7:08:02 GMT
You have just done what the problem is. Instead of facing the fact England are mediocre you suggest a few bits of misfortune stopped us winning trophies. Do you really believe that? In wach of those games we could have took control but were incapable. Joe, I think there are different levels of mediocre. The 'golden generation' had at least 5 world class players when you consider it. This current squad had none. Not one imo. I'm not suggesting misfortune was the basis behind those tournament failures. Seaman was past his best and the fact we had failed to address contributed directly to that game which we lost. You cannot deny that 2004, England were wrongly punished by the disallowed goal. As for 2006, well, young Mr Rooney was stupid and that meant we took it to pens. I think our inability to win shootouts is another thing that was never addressed. The only time in my lifetime we have had a realistic chance of winning a trophy was 2004. The disallowed goal was questionable (but not as clear cut as most English people felt) but after seizing the initiative we stopped. We just got overran. Rooneys injury too. But then other teams get injuries and win tournaments. I can't say we had five workd class players the rest of the world has to judge that and they were respected but not held in the global elite level. Apart from Beckham and Owen at times
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Post by metalhead on Jun 30, 2016 10:36:22 GMT
Joe, I think there are different levels of mediocre. The 'golden generation' had at least 5 world class players when you consider it. This current squad had none. Not one imo. I'm not suggesting misfortune was the basis behind those tournament failures. Seaman was past his best and the fact we had failed to address contributed directly to that game which we lost. You cannot deny that 2004, England were wrongly punished by the disallowed goal. As for 2006, well, young Mr Rooney was stupid and that meant we took it to pens. I think our inability to win shootouts is another thing that was never addressed. The only time in my lifetime we have had a realistic chance of winning a trophy was 2004. The disallowed goal was questionable (but not as clear cut as most English people felt) but after seizing the initiative we stopped. We just got overran. Rooneys injury too. But then other teams get injuries and win tournaments. I can't say we had five workd class players the rest of the world has to judge that and they were respected but not held in the global elite level. Apart from Beckham and Owen at times I always felt the disallowed goal was a dreadful decision.
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Post by dutchstokie on Jun 30, 2016 11:24:30 GMT
If we had gone out on Sunday to France you would be preening like this. Look, a new manager won't make a huge amount of difference. It might mean the next exit isn't this shit but little more than that. Roy had to go. In fact second half of the Wales game I thought he had to go. But that isn't the only issue. And one problem is everyonewants change but nobody wants anything to be different. I include us supporters in that too. You're right, Joe: as soon as August comes round, all angry England supporters everywhere will forget about the Euros and jump back on the Premier League bandwagon which is really the root of the England football team's problems. As Stoke fans, we got excited about the future of English football when we watched Dele Alli and Harry Kane run rings around Phil Bardsley and Phillip Wollscheid. But as long as anyone showing a little bit of ability is praised from the rooftops and paid a king's ransom for scoring hatfuls of goals against Stoke, Sunderland and Crystal Palace, they'll never have the incentive to take their own game to a higher level by going to play abroad for example. Then when they finally have to play a high-pressure match against a high-class opposition, without being supported by their more intelligent, technically superior club team-mates, they don't have the experience, intelligence or skills to succeed. Even a strong manager, with a mind of his own, who's prepared to overlook the hype of big-name, big-club players and pick players based on form, would still have an impossible task. Let's be honest, Mark Noble or Danny Drinkwater wouldn't have turned us into world beaters. Both have had great seasons, doing what was required alongside brilliant colleagues from France and Algeria. As did Vardy, and then when his clever team-mates were removed, he was lost: the same thing that happened when Frank Lampard had to play without Essien and Makelele, Gerrard had to play without Alonso and Rooney without Ronaldo/Tevez/Berbatov. From Frank Lampard to Harry Kane, Scott Parker to Jordan Henderson, Steve McLaren to Gareth Southgate, Fabio Capello to whichever of the world's elite managers we appoint after Southgate, it's all just shuffling the deckchairs on the Titanic until the Premier League bubble finally bursts. And that really is the only answer. The money-orientated, overhyped Premier League needs to implode so that we can basically start again. Has Str8outtahampton cut and pasted his prediction for the 2018 World Cup yet? Absolutely nailed it- well said that man!
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 30, 2016 11:51:45 GMT
The only time in my lifetime we have had a realistic chance of winning a trophy was 2004. The disallowed goal was questionable (but not as clear cut as most English people felt) but after seizing the initiative we stopped. We just got overran. Rooneys injury too. But then other teams get injuries and win tournaments. I can't say we had five workd class players the rest of the world has to judge that and they were respected but not held in the global elite level. Apart from Beckham and Owen at times I always felt the disallowed goal was a dreadful decision. I thought it was wrong but not obviously wrong.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jun 30, 2016 12:10:00 GMT
The biggest problems in Euro 2004 were dreadful errors against France that turned a brilliant performance into a defeat and Rooney's injury against Portugal.
We scored too early in that game and tried to hold onto a 1-0 for too long.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jun 30, 2016 12:12:56 GMT
The biggest problems in Euro 2004 were dreadful errors against France that turned a brilliant performance into a defeat and Rooney's injury against Portugal. We scored too early in that game and tried to hold onto a 1-0 for too long. Portugal were terrified of Rooney. His injury made a big difference. The one tournament in my life we had a chance of winning.
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