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Post by tobeperfectlyhonest on May 4, 2016 12:59:49 GMT
I have enjoyed that massive German youth upsetting the odds and the PLs 'big boys' with Leicester, but does it compare with Notts Forest's achievements 1977-80?
Forest finished 3rd and were promoted from the old 2nd Divison in 1976/77. In their first season (77/78), they won the 1st Division title and the League Cup. The next season, they won the European Cup, retained the League Cup and finished 2nd in the League. In 1979/80, they retained the European Cup and were League Cup runners up
Forest; like Leicester, were an unfashionable 'smaller' club who had their own version of Jamie Vardy in Gary Birtles, signed for £2000 for non-league Long Eaton United in 1977 (although he did not start regularly until 1978/79 when he finished top scorer). They upset the odds by breaking the almost complete dominance by Liverpool of both domestic and european competition from the mid 1970's to mid 1980's. They had their own defensive signing from Stoke at the core of their defence - in this case Peter Shilton who had signed just after the start of the 1977/78 season.
Many people may claim that the mega-money now available to the 'big four/five' has made Leicester's achievement even more impressive but, in my opinon, that disparity between 'big and small' clubs has always existed and Forest at the time were certainly not regarded as a big club.
So whilst I genuinely applaud Leicester for shaking up the PL and giving us all hope, I don't think it is unprecedented and can't agree that it's the greatest sporting story - well not yet........
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Post by WhyDelilah on May 4, 2016 13:04:20 GMT
I'm not sure anything tops Liverpool's 2-2 draw with West Brom at home.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 4, 2016 13:09:37 GMT
The disparity is (or has been since the start of the Prem really) miles bigger than it was then.
And they signed the first million pound player that season as well.
Would you have got odds of 5000-1 on Forest at the time? I doubt it.
Leicester were universal tips for relegation. Their manager had been sacked by Greece after losing to the Faroe Islands.
The financial dodginess that goes with Leicester sort of sharpens the edges of the fairytale a bit, but it's a miles bigger shock I'd say.
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Post by superheroantonius on May 4, 2016 13:10:02 GMT
forest by a distance ...
i wonder how many leicester fans will be putting their 5000 to 1 winnings on leicester winning the champions league
i am going to guess zero :-)
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Post by tobeperfectlyhonest on May 4, 2016 13:22:06 GMT
The disparity is (or has been since the start of the Prem really) miles bigger than it was then. And they signed the first million pound player that season as well. Would you have got odds of 5000-1 on Forest at the time? I doubt it. Leicester were universal tips for relegation. Their manager had been sacked by Greece after losing to the Faroe Islands. The financial dodginess that goes with Leicester sort of sharpens the edges of the fairytale a bit, but it's a miles bigger shock I'd say. Francis didn't sign until Feb 1979 - the season after their title success
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 4, 2016 13:22:57 GMT
It was easier to win the European Cup then than it is now, when it's set up massively to avoid anyone like Forest or Leicester winning it.
Villa won it. Malmo got to the final the first year Forest won it. Panathanaikos got to a final a few years before.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 4, 2016 13:23:20 GMT
The disparity is (or has been since the start of the Prem really) miles bigger than it was then. And they signed the first million pound player that season as well. Would you have got odds of 5000-1 on Forest at the time? I doubt it. Leicester were universal tips for relegation. Their manager had been sacked by Greece after losing to the Faroe Islands. The financial dodginess that goes with Leicester sort of sharpens the edges of the fairytale a bit, but it's a miles bigger shock I'd say. Francis didn't sign until Feb 1979 - the season after their title success We're taking about Forest winning the European Cup aren't we?
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Post by skip on May 4, 2016 13:27:46 GMT
I've just found out that a bloke at work put one pound on Leicester back in November at 1,000-1. The bastard.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on May 4, 2016 13:31:43 GMT
I had the same thoughts... I thought Forrest achievements after promotion keep nagging at me as a bigger achievement.
That is not to say that I am not happy for Leicester and hope we can emulate them in the not too distant future.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 13:52:50 GMT
Forest for me by a country mile.
I find it a little suspicious that people just randomly put money on their teams to win. I get that it's just a small amount, but I've never even considered putting a bet on Stoke to win the league - nor would Leicester fans youd imagine. Do people do this all the time, you just dont hear about it because they dont win?
Does anyone here bet on Stoke to win the league on the off chance?
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 4, 2016 13:56:23 GMT
People do it all the time. The stories would be the same if it was Stoke, Swansea or Bournemouth.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on May 4, 2016 13:59:03 GMT
Anything pre Permier League means fuck all!
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Post by superheroantonius on May 4, 2016 14:03:45 GMT
The only stoke bet i would do is stoke to win at home versus one of the big teams ... man city arsenal man utd chelsea spurs
the odds are sometimes quite good and there is a decent chance it might actually happen
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Post by PotterLog on May 4, 2016 14:31:16 GMT
The disparity is (or has been since the start of the Prem really) miles bigger than it was then. And they signed the first million pound player that season as well. Would you have got odds of 5000-1 on Forest at the time? I doubt it.Leicester were universal tips for relegation. Their manager had been sacked by Greece after losing to the Faroe Islands. The financial dodginess that goes with Leicester sort of sharpens the edges of the fairytale a bit, but it's a miles bigger shock I'd say. For them to win the league *and* then two European Cups I'd say you'd have got better than 5000
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 4, 2016 14:42:11 GMT
The disparity is (or has been since the start of the Prem really) miles bigger than it was then. And they signed the first million pound player that season as well. Would you have got odds of 5000-1 on Forest at the time? I doubt it.Leicester were universal tips for relegation. Their manager had been sacked by Greece after losing to the Faroe Islands. The financial dodginess that goes with Leicester sort of sharpens the edges of the fairytale a bit, but it's a miles bigger shock I'd say. For them to win the league *and* then two European Cups I'd say you'd have got better than 5000 It's an incredible story but I don't think the odds are stacked against smaller clubs back then anything like they are now. The league was a lot more competitive and the European Cup was a two-legged knock out competition. The idea that Liverpool winning the league a couple of seasons ago in the Gerrard slip year felt far-fetched, let alone Leicester doing it. That's how much of a closed shop the league had become.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 14:45:44 GMT
Leicester. Forest's achievement was massive but in those days teams could come staright up and challenge for the title. Even Leeds did it in 1990/1991 then won it the year after. QPR,Ipswich both came close to the league. Unfashionable Derby won it twice. The gaffer was a bit special too in those days. Look at the euro competition back then. The champions ONLY went in the European Cup. There was the UEFA still and the Cup Winners Cup. Better like that in my opinion. 5 ties to win it home and away. Go google the teams involved. Not taking anything away from Forest though. Its amazing. Leicester though. In an era so totally dominated by money. When you can easily predict the top four or five for about ten years. Theyve come from nothing to win The Premier League. This isnt like the owd first division. Its a money dominated glory league. I never saw Stoke getting higher than 6th...seriously. Now....why not?? Everyone now has a slice of the silly wealth on offer. The rules have changed
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Post by cheekymatt71 on May 4, 2016 15:12:20 GMT
Forest for me by a country mile. I find it a little suspicious that people just randomly put money on their teams to win. I get that it's just a small amount, but I've never even considered putting a bet on Stoke to win the league - nor would Leicester fans youd imagine. Do people do this all the time, you just dont hear about it because they dont win? Does anyone here bet on Stoke to win the league on the off chance? I put 50 quid on Stoke finishing top 6 at 30-1 odds. There wont be any more 5000-1 odds on winning the Prem next year Im sure because EVERY supporter will be thinking about betting on their team to do a Leicester. The bookies will quickly make their money back on these bets next season
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Post by Gods on May 4, 2016 15:16:57 GMT
Forest without a shadow of a doubt. If Leicester follow it up with back to back European Cup's then perhaps we should look again.
The Forest story was something else, a European takeover, not just a domestic squabble. I know that doesn't suit the script of everything 'Premier League' related being the best ever but its the truth.
Anyone remember what they sang at the time too? Quite appropriate when you think about it!
Forever and ever, we'll follow our team, we're Nottingham Forest. we rule supreme! we'll never be mastered, by you Leicester bastards! we'll keep the red flag, flying high!
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Post by supersimonstainrod on May 4, 2016 15:34:26 GMT
Though magical what Leicester have achieved is,Forest just shade it for me,winning the league and the league cup in that first season up,back to back European Cups,that colossal unbeaten run.Magnificent stuff.
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Post by PotterLog on May 4, 2016 16:55:49 GMT
For them to win the league *and* then two European Cups I'd say you'd have got better than 5000 It's an incredible story but I don't think the odds are stacked against smaller clubs back then anything like they are now. The league was a lot more competitive and the European Cup was a two-legged knock out competition. The idea that Liverpool winning the league a couple of seasons ago in the Gerrard slip year felt far-fetched, let alone Leicester doing it. That's how much of a closed shop the league had become. I agree that it's harder to win the league now, but with Forest it was three massive achievements in a row, not just one. It's a tough one, I think they're about equal.
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Post by PotteringThrough on May 4, 2016 16:55:54 GMT
Leicester for me.
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Post by rawli on May 4, 2016 17:50:03 GMT
Leicester - the disparity between the top clubs and them is just massive. Plus the team that won the European Cups was improved year on year and it was a much easier tournament to win then.
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Post by BristolMick on May 4, 2016 18:00:40 GMT
I have enjoyed that massive German youth upsetting the odds and the PLs 'big boys' with Leicester, but does it compare with Notts Forest's achievements 1977-80? Forest finished 3rd and were promoted from the old 2nd Divison in 1976/77. In their first season (77/78), they won the 1st Division title and the League Cup.
The next season, they won the European Cup, retained the League Cup and finished 2nd in the League.
In 1979/80, they retained the European Cup and were League Cup runners up
Forest; like Leicester, were an unfashionable 'smaller' club who had their own version of Jamie Vardy in Gary Birtles, signed for £2000 for non-league Long Eaton United in 1977 (although he did not start regularly until 1978/79 when he finished top scorer). They upset the odds by breaking the almost complete dominance by Liverpool of both domestic and european competition from the mid 1970's to mid 1980's. They had their own defensive signing from Stoke at the core of their defence - in this case Peter Shilton who had signed just after the start of the 1977/78 season. Many people may claim that the mega-money now available to the 'big four/five' has made Leicester's achievement even more impressive but, in my opinon, that disparity between 'big and small' clubs has always existed and Forest at the time were certainly not regarded as a big club. So whilst I genuinely applaud Leicester for shaking up the PL and giving us all hope, I don't think it is unprecedented and can't agree that it's the greatest sporting story - well not yet........ The question is easily answered by asking another one. Did Stoke City have a better chance of being champions of the top flight in the 70s or is there a better chance now? BM
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Post by Staffsoatcake on May 4, 2016 18:01:55 GMT
It was more of a level playing field in the 70s, even Stoke came close around then, if not for broken legs we may just have won the league.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 18:47:44 GMT
Leaving the European triumphs out of it and just comparing the title wins, I think Leicester is a far bigger story.
Derby, a club not dissimilar to Forest had won the title twice less than 10 years prior to Forest, and plenty of similar sized clubs like us had come close during that time.
Money hadn't taken over completely then like it has over the past 25 years. Haven't we all moaned about the fact that it's 'no longer' a level playing field, with the gap between the haves and the have-nots getting bigger every year?
I can remember Forest winning the league, and it was seen as a magnificent achievement. What Leicester have done seemed utterly impossible this time last year.
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Post by AlliG on May 4, 2016 18:54:31 GMT
I was a student in Nottingham in 1977/78 and got to see Forest on a number of occasions when Stoke were playing away and the difference between top and bottom was much closer in those days.
Who was the last "small" club to genuinely challenge for the Premier League title? I can't off the top of my head remember one in the last 15 years.
Back in the 1970s / early 80sthere were plenty of small clubs (Us, Derby, QPR, Ipswich, Villa, Southampton and Watford) who at one time or another had a realistic opportunity to win the title.
Another way to look at it is to consider if Joe Hart leaves Man City this summer would he end up at Burnley or Brighton?
Leicester is the better because for years it has been considered that it is impossible for a club outside the Big 4, 5 or 6 to win the title. Back in the 1970s I didn't need Forest to win the title to dream that one day Stoke might become champions.
Up and down the country there will now be young kids telling their parents that they were wrong to say that it was impossible that "their" club could win the title.
Leicester have given young kids the opportunity to dream once more.
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Post by tobeperfectlyhonest on May 4, 2016 18:57:11 GMT
It was more of a level playing field in the 70s, even Stoke came close around then, if not for broken legs we may just have won the league. Liverpool's record of 5 titles in the 70's makes me question the level playing field opinion. As for the European Cup in the 70's - won by Ajax(3 times), Bayern(3 times) and Liverpool(twice) before Forest won in 1979 - doesn't appear to be too level a surface there either. Bigger well supported sides have always attracted better players and a bigger percentage from available revenue streams since the abolition of the minimum wage in the 60s - although I accept that the mega TV money and foreign investment has exaggerated this disparity to the detriment of smaller clubs. I still feel though that on balance, Forest's achievements over a 3 year period outshine Leicester's success so far.
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Post by cubegame on May 4, 2016 19:02:10 GMT
You have to look outside football for stories to parallel Leicester's astounding achievement.
1. That American cyclist who was riddled with cancer and recovered to win the Tour De France 7 times.
2. That Irish swimmer who after nearly failing to even qualify for the Atlanta Olympics managed to win 3 golds, even at an advanced age and after a long career where she rarely troubled the podium.
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Post by LDE76 on May 4, 2016 19:07:25 GMT
"Wade was born in Stoke-on-Trent and began his career with local side Newcastle Town. He was given a chance to play professional football by Stoke City manager Lou Macari quite belatedly at the age of 24. He made just one appearance for Stoke which came as a substitute in a 1–1 at home to Sheffield United in November 1994. A cruciate knee ligament injury killed off his chances of a professional career and he returned to Newcastle Town."
Leicester schmester.
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Post by ryan4england on May 4, 2016 19:08:21 GMT
I thought it was West Ham winning the World Cup
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