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Post by metalhead on Apr 15, 2016 12:57:58 GMT
My point is that people (like yourself) always say "we need pace, let's sign pace, we need a striker who can score 30 goals a season, we need a centre back who never gets injured and is best in the premier league", ultimately, wanting all these things is great but unless there's an actual abundance of those players, and there isn't. We also don't have the finances to sign a 50 million pound player. What do you want people to say? And isn't it why we have a scouting department? The 30 goal a season striker is daft but players with pace isn't. Look around the leagues, there are plenty of fast players! Sure. Let's sign Usain Bolt, apparently he's a half decent footballer. Just because someone is absolutely rapid, doesn't mean they're remotely good at football. Haven't we seen enough examples of players with electric pace, who are total dog shit? Ryan Babel? Gabriel Obertan? David Bellion? Darren fucking Campbell? What do they all have in common? They were quick at running and shit at football. Somehow, it's become the norm to suggest that pace is everything in football. It's not. When you get a great footballer who's also quick, you get a Ryan Giggs or a Gareth Bale or an Arjen Robben, and guess what? They ain't signing for Stoke any time soon and before anyone mentions Jamie Vardy, he's the exception to the rule and I'm not even convinced he'll keep this form up next season anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 13:05:47 GMT
What do you want people to say? And isn't it why we have a scouting department? The 30 goal a season striker is daft but players with pace isn't. Look around the leagues, there are plenty of fast players! Sure. Let's sign Usain Bolt, apparently he's a half decent footballer. Just because someone is absolutely rapid, doesn't mean they're remotely good at football. Haven't we seen enough examples of players with electric pace, who are total dog shit? Ryan Babel? Gabriel Obertan? David Bellion? Darren fucking Campbell? What do they all have in common? They were quick at running and shit at football. Somehow, it's become the norm to suggest that pace is everything in football. It's not. When you get a great footballer who's also quick, you get a Ryan Giggs or a Gareth Bale or an Arjen Robben, and guess what? They ain't signing for Stoke any time soon and before anyone mentions Jamie Vardy, he's the exception to the rule and I'm not even convinced he'll keep this form up next season anyway. Just mentioned Vardy. Sorry!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 13:11:07 GMT
Arnie isn't slow and nor is Shaqiri in my opinion. I do agree with our lack of pace in general though. Imbula isn't exactly quick and Whelan was never quick, but this is a reactionary response. For years it's all been about pass and move, now it's about kick and rush, only because of Leicester though. Imbula doesn't need to be "quick". When you see him bounce off a couple of tackles then ghost past about five players who are each only a couple of feet away, but might as well be at the other end of the pitch. Then you realise what a silky skilful player he is.
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Post by Gods on Apr 15, 2016 13:14:45 GMT
This one of the main reasons why we need to replace Hughes Everyone sees him as a footballing man who has taken us to the next level, but all he has done is replace players with better technically gifted players and lifted us a few slight places in the prem. Anyone could have done that Modern managers need to stay ahead of the curve and this thread highlights something he is blind too Get rid I say, preferably before season end to give someone a proper bedding in time Time to go Hughes Quickly checks steewee's other recent posts for confirmation (which I find) that he is in fact a wind-up merchant.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 15, 2016 13:20:39 GMT
What do you want people to say? And isn't it why we have a scouting department? The 30 goal a season striker is daft but players with pace isn't. Look around the leagues, there are plenty of fast players! Sure. Let's sign Usain Bolt, apparently he's a half decent footballer. Just because someone is absolutely rapid, doesn't mean they're remotely good at football. Haven't we seen enough examples of players with electric pace, who are total dog shit? Ryan Babel? Gabriel Obertan? David Bellion? Darren fucking Campbell? What do they all have in common? They were quick at running and shit at football. Somehow, it's become the norm to suggest that pace is everything in football. It's not. When you get a great footballer who's also quick, you get a Ryan Giggs or a Gareth Bale or an Arjen Robben, and guess what? They ain't signing for Stoke any time soon and before anyone mentions Jamie Vardy, he's the exception to the rule and I'm not even convinced he'll keep this form up next season anyway. Are you saying that we have no chance of signing anyone who's both quick and good at football? Ricardo Fuller cost £500k. Matthew Etherington cost £1.5m Victor Moses, who was more than good enough for our purposes as an option, cost Wigan about £3m. Leicester's wingers combined cost less than a million quid.
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Post by metalhead on Apr 15, 2016 13:26:54 GMT
Sure. Let's sign Usain Bolt, apparently he's a half decent footballer. Just because someone is absolutely rapid, doesn't mean they're remotely good at football. Haven't we seen enough examples of players with electric pace, who are total dog shit? Ryan Babel? Gabriel Obertan? David Bellion? Darren fucking Campbell? What do they all have in common? They were quick at running and shit at football. Somehow, it's become the norm to suggest that pace is everything in football. It's not. When you get a great footballer who's also quick, you get a Ryan Giggs or a Gareth Bale or an Arjen Robben, and guess what? They ain't signing for Stoke any time soon and before anyone mentions Jamie Vardy, he's the exception to the rule and I'm not even convinced he'll keep this form up next season anyway. Are you saying that we have no chance of signing anyone who's both quick and good at football? Ricardo Fuller cost £500k. Matthew Etherington cost £1.5m Victor Moses, who was more than good enough for our purposes as an option, cost Wigan about £3m. Leicester's wingers combined cost less than a million quid. Leicester's wingers.... I assume you mean Albrighton and Schlupp? Tbh, I wouldn't take either. Mahrez is quick but he's probably no quicker than Arnie. People love putting down their own players.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 15, 2016 13:34:14 GMT
Are you saying that we have no chance of signing anyone who's both quick and good at football? Ricardo Fuller cost £500k. Matthew Etherington cost £1.5m Victor Moses, who was more than good enough for our purposes as an option, cost Wigan about £3m. Leicester's wingers combined cost less than a million quid. Leicester's wingers.... I assume you mean Albrighton and Schlupp? Tbh, I wouldn't take either. Mahrez is quick but he's probably no quicker than Arnie. People love putting down their own players. I haven't put down any of our own players on this thread. Albrighton as an option would surely offer us something? What about my other examples? My point is there is clearly an ocean of room between Ryan Giggs and Gabriel Obertan.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 13:37:38 GMT
This one of the main reasons why we need to replace Hughes Everyone sees him as a footballing man who has taken us to the next level, but all he has done is replace players with better technically gifted players and lifted us a few slight places in the prem. Anyone could have done that Modern managers need to stay ahead of the curve and this thread highlights something he is blind too Get rid I say, preferably before season end to give someone a proper bedding in time Time to go Hughes You need psychiatric help.
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Post by reddipotter on Apr 15, 2016 13:49:34 GMT
Pace is key....the slow passing game was found out at the last World Cup. Seems to me many Premier League managers didn't notice and that's particularly obvious at Stoke Exactly, which is one big reason why Leicester are doing so well. They have taken the league by surprise by the pace of their game. But, with one or two obvious exceptions, this is not players who run like Usain Bolt, it is moving the ball quickly and speed of thought. In a different system, this is what Liverpool did last night,too. The ball can move much more quickly than any player.
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Post by metalhead on Apr 15, 2016 14:01:03 GMT
Leicester's wingers.... I assume you mean Albrighton and Schlupp? Tbh, I wouldn't take either. Mahrez is quick but he's probably no quicker than Arnie. People love putting down their own players. I haven't put down any of our own players on this thread. Albrighton as an option would surely offer us something? What about my other examples? My point is there is clearly an ocean of room between Ryan Giggs and Gabriel Obertan. Albrighton has been average for a number of seasons. One good season, coincidentally along with many others who have had one good season. Amazing what a sliced up orange can do eh?
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Post by metalhead on Apr 15, 2016 14:02:27 GMT
Pace is key....the slow passing game was found out at the last World Cup. Seems to me many Premier League managers didn't notice and that's particularly obvious at Stoke Exactly, which is one big reason why Leicester are doing so well. They have taken the league by surprise by the pace of their game. But, with one or two obvious exceptions, this is not players who run like Usain Bolt, it is moving the ball quickly and speed of thought. In a different system, this is what Liverpool did last night,too. The ball can move much more quickly than any player. Now I do agree with this, but you don't need pace to move the ball quickly. A few years ago, Barca had a team with players like Xavi, Iniesta in the middle, apart from Messi and Eto'o, there wasn't tonnes of pace, but they passed the ball quicker had used the ball better. They also took their chances.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 15, 2016 14:20:38 GMT
Exactly, which is one big reason why Leicester are doing so well. They have taken the league by surprise by the pace of their game. But, with one or two obvious exceptions, this is not players who run like Usain Bolt, it is moving the ball quickly and speed of thought. In a different system, this is what Liverpool did last night,too. The ball can move much more quickly than any player. Now I do agree with this, but you don't need pace to move the ball quickly. A few years ago, Barca had a team with players like Xavi, Iniesta in the middle, apart from Messi and Eto'o, there wasn't tonnes of pace, but they passed the ball quicker had used the ball better. They also took their chances. They had Alves who was absolutely rapid, players like Pedro and Afellay who were absolutely rapid, as well as those two. It's more important in the Premier League than elsewhere.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 15, 2016 14:37:24 GMT
What do you want people to say? And isn't it why we have a scouting department? The 30 goal a season striker is daft but players with pace isn't. Look around the leagues, there are plenty of fast players! Sure. Let's sign Usain Bolt, apparently he's a half decent footballer. Just because someone is absolutely rapid, doesn't mean they're remotely good at football. Haven't we seen enough examples of players with electric pace, who are total dog shit? Ryan Babel? Gabriel Obertan? David Bellion? Darren fucking Campbell? What do they all have in common? They were quick at running and shit at football. Somehow, it's become the norm to suggest that pace is everything in football. It's not. When you get a great footballer who's also quick, you get a Ryan Giggs or a Gareth Bale or an Arjen Robben, and guess what? They ain't signing for Stoke any time soon and before anyone mentions Jamie Vardy, he's the exception to the rule and I'm not even convinced he'll keep this form up next season anyway. No one is saying that, you're saying that, no one else! We want fast players who can play a bit, there are plenty in the leagues around Europe. Why can't we both? Why is this place and Stoke fans so black and bastarding white? That last paragraph doesn't bear an semblance to reality.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Apr 15, 2016 14:46:13 GMT
The style changes every few years a little , intersting to look at the work rate of teams like leicester spurs and Athletico Madrid , also Klopp will demand that at liverpool and the slower passing teams seem to be less effective as systems evolvle to counter that threat
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Post by boweryboy on Apr 15, 2016 15:32:51 GMT
The trouble with our wingers,neither attack the byeline on the outside enough, which helps to cut out offsides....they both cut inside because neither is quick enough to take most fullbacks on the outside.....
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Post by superheroantonius on Apr 15, 2016 15:39:24 GMT
Watching this weeks football it has reiterated to me how slow all our full backs are compared to most teams. The full back role seems to be massive in a lot of teams, letting the fullbacks give the width and pace thus releasing players ahead to go central and overloading other teams. What compounds it for us is as well as slower fullbacks we even have slow wide men, Arnie and Shack not exactly blessed with pace to burn. I would love someone like Trippier from Spurs or that kind of full back its so important we can get forward quicker. Pace,pace pace to move on. We are missing glen Johnston who is a class act. sparky signed moses and Diouf and when they played together we did hit people on the break :-) You may be preaching to the converted :-) I hope so :-) Guess we will find out in the summer
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Post by jimmygscfc on Apr 15, 2016 15:48:27 GMT
The trouble with our wingers,neither attack the byeline on the outside enough, which helps to cut out offsides....they both cut inside because neither is quick enough to take most fullbacks on the outside..... Another reason is that if they get to the bye-line they have to cross with their wrong foot!
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Apr 15, 2016 15:56:22 GMT
Arnie isn't slow and nor is Shaqiri in my opinion. I do agree with our lack of pace in general though. Imbula isn't exactly quick and Whelan was never quick, but this is a reactionary response. For years it's all been about pass and move, now it's about kick and rush, only because of Leicester though. Imbula doesn't need to be "quick". When you see him bounce off a couple of tackles then ghost past about five players who are each only a couple of feet away, but might as well be at the other end of the pitch. Then you realise what a silky skilful player he is. I think Imbula is quick. He's got that long stride just makes him look like he's gliding rather than rapid. Shaqiri on the other hand, his legs go ten to the dozen but I haven't seen him take players out of the equation by tanking past them on my occasions. I think its one of the reasons he goes inside all the time, easier route if you haven't got the pace to round the man. Left footed full back will always struggle when taken on the inside.
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Post by nonameface on Apr 15, 2016 15:57:34 GMT
The trouble with our wingers,neither attack the byeline on the outside enough, which helps to cut out offsides....they both cut inside because neither is quick enough to take most fullbacks on the outside..... Another reason is that if they get to the bye-line they have to cross with their wrong foot! Think Shaqiri and Arnie are two of the faster players in the league, our problem is our focus on ball retention means they don't want to run down the line and have a maybe chance of crossing and getting a shot off, they would rather take the chance themselves by cutting back in.
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Post by pottersrule on Apr 15, 2016 16:04:42 GMT
I remember I was doing quite nicely as a school boy left back ....and then Terry Cooper came along with his bloody over-lapping runs. Life as a full back was never the same again! I remember as a young boy us signing a by then aging Alec Lindsay from Liverpool as a left back and being told all about the "sweet left foot of Alec Lindsay' but to my inexperienced eye it seemed like he was physically finished and as for his 'sweet left foot' well he just shanked it in to the paddock nearly every time Bloody hell I was trying hard to forget about him,he was really shite by the time the bin dippers had finished with him.Totally robbed of his pace.Those cunts will knick owt!
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Post by stokie1 on Apr 15, 2016 16:08:37 GMT
I think you will find that 4 CBs across the back is the way to go Yours TP
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 16:15:01 GMT
Scott Sinclair from Villa?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 15, 2016 16:19:19 GMT
Scott Sinclair from Villa? Surely we can do better, played well when he came on against us but they hate him there.
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Post by rawli on Apr 15, 2016 16:56:08 GMT
This one of the main reasons why we need to replace Hughes Everyone sees him as a footballing man who has taken us to the next level, but all he has done is replace players with better technically gifted players and lifted us a few slight places in the prem. Anyone could have done that Modern managers need to stay ahead of the curve and this thread highlights something he is blind too Get rid I say, preferably before season end to give someone a proper bedding in time Time to go Hughes 3/10 must try harder. I think 3 is over generous.
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Post by numpty40 on Apr 15, 2016 16:59:05 GMT
Maybe.... you've not named any yet? I've asked you why I need to name them? Did you have the names Imbula or Arnautovic at your fingertips before we were linked with them? Do we not have a scouting system? They have to be out there somewhere, surely? Or are we not allowed to have an opinion unless we have a detailed knowledge of the Peruvian second division? I reckon Cienciano have a pretty good chance of promotion this season, what does everyone else reckon?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 18:50:37 GMT
Scott Sinclair from Villa? Surely we can do better, played well when he came on against us but they hate him there. Like who?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 15, 2016 20:04:38 GMT
Watching Hanover at the minute and one player has stood out. He's only 19 and this is only his third game but he's had the beating of Oskar Wendt and is fast as fuck and unrelenting with hassling defenders. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah-Joel_Sarenren-Bazee
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Post by outspaced on Apr 15, 2016 21:20:30 GMT
Tony Daley was quick. Had ace hair as well. Is he still about?
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Post by owdestokie on Apr 15, 2016 21:30:42 GMT
Surely having pace in our current style of play would be similar to playing square pegs in round holes
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Post by reddipotter on Apr 15, 2016 21:38:15 GMT
The trouble with our wingers,neither attack the byeline on the outside enough, which helps to cut out offsides....they both cut inside because neither is quick enough to take most fullbacks on the outside..... Another reason is that if they get to the bye-line they have to cross with their wrong foot! Can anyone tell me why the inverted winger is a good idea?
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