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Post by Rick Grimes on Apr 13, 2016 7:15:50 GMT
Since when did opinions in a survey turn into British Law? Just after a failed £9million campaign to prevent it . But I digress .....I just googled some images on Shelton and crime stats after reading some of the defensive comments about it on here ... I wasn't surprised or shocked with the findings either ... ...but let's just gloss over it and put it down to media manipulation . Simply looking googling images and crime stats on Shelton won't actually tell you an awful lot unless you've done some proper research and looked into things further. For example have you compared the stats to other areas?
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Post by manmarking on Apr 13, 2016 7:50:46 GMT
No ....it was All a figment of my imagination . I never suggested it was but if you won't show anyone else which stats and images you're referring to then how are we supposed to discuss them? You can't have a go at Cameron for being evasive and yet refuse to produce crime stats you're basing an argument on (for the second time in as many weeks).
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openg
Youth Player
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
Posts: 264
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Post by openg on Apr 13, 2016 8:11:19 GMT
There is a large body of evidence to suggest that about 20% of the muslim population - across the Eurasian land belt - are islamists, i.e they would wish to impose any of their versions of Islam over society. Most wish to do this via a democratic process, or by coups.
Only a very small percentage of this 20% see violence as a means to do so, i.e. are jihadists (although there is a large amount of opinion that doesn't wish to have this word associated with islamism, because jihad is perceived by these scholars as much nobler concept, it should exempt women, children, non-combatants etc for example).
We need to enable muslims who wish to reform some of the aspects of islam that are now irrelevant, but obviously the jihadists are so violent that the reformist's lives are constantly under threat from them.
About 70% of muslims are what would be considered extremely religiously conservative (small c) from a secular POV (within this figure is the islamists), and sometimes these two are conflated in surveys such as these. Which can lead to the data seeming more worrying than it actually is. This is not to deny that the 20% figure is extremely troubling, and the militant islamists (jihadists) are making pure misery and destruction.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 8:35:27 GMT
Anyone here reckon there will be a similar message board in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc etc etc moaning about " Pakistani Christians" et el not integrating, wishing to impose Christian ways and customs on said Muslim countries...NOPE...Thought not. Fact is when we as expats decide to live in another country, or even our later generation offspring, in the case of Muslims born in UK, we do integrate, we do respect our host's way of life, and we certainly do not want to impose our beliefs and traditions upon them...
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Post by thevoid on Apr 13, 2016 8:50:54 GMT
I wonder why C4 didn't feel compelled to do a similar survey amongst the Sikh/ Hindu, Jewish, West Indian or Chinese communities?
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 13, 2016 8:55:21 GMT
Anyone here reckon there will be a similar message board in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc etc etc moaning about " Pakistani Christians" et el not integrating, wishing to impose Christian ways and customs on said Muslim countries...NOPE...Thought not. Fact is when we as expats decide to live in another country, or even our later generation offspring, in the case of Muslims born in UK, we do integrate, we do respect our host's way of life, and we certainly do not want to impose our beliefs and traditions upon them... there is actually and (funnily enough) the general concensus on there appears to be that the blame for them not integrating should be laid at the door of Pulis. they also have several locked threads because of spamming by a poster called "Khliffi"
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Post by maninasuitcase on Apr 13, 2016 9:12:30 GMT
I wonder why C4 didn't feel compelled to do a similar survey amongst the Sikh/ Hindu, Jewish, West Indian or Chinese communities? Maybe cos they are not trying to blow the world back to the stone age. All religions suck, but Islam must be at the top of the list of crapness.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Apr 13, 2016 9:40:28 GMT
Anyone here reckon there will be a similar message board in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc etc etc moaning about " Pakistani Christians" et el not integrating, wishing to impose Christian ways and customs on said Muslim countries...NOPE...Thought not. Fact is when we as expats decide to live in another country, or even our later generation offspring, in the case of Muslims born in UK, we do integrate, we do respect our host's way of life, and we certainly do not want to impose our beliefs and traditions upon them... I don't understand this line of argument. What beliefs and traditions are being imposed on us? I'd be interested to know if anyone on this board has ever - had anyone in the muslim community try and convert them to Islam - had any muslim beliefs or traditions imposed on them - been stopped from doing anything at all by the muslim community because they objected to it The OP mentions that 1 in 4 British Muslims want Sharia Law to replace British Law. So 75% of the Muslims surveyed DON'T want Sharia Law to replace British Law. We live in a democracy and if 75% of British Muslims surveyed don't want Sharia Law to replace British Law then it's never going to be put in place is it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 10:41:45 GMT
Anyone here reckon there will be a similar message board in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc etc etc moaning about " Pakistani Christians" et el not integrating, wishing to impose Christian ways and customs on said Muslim countries...NOPE...Thought not. Fact is when we as expats decide to live in another country, or even our later generation offspring, in the case of Muslims born in UK, we do integrate, we do respect our host's way of life, and we certainly do not want to impose our beliefs and traditions upon them... I don't understand this line of argument. What beliefs and traditions are being imposed on us? I'd be interested to know if anyone on this board has ever - had anyone in the muslim community try and convert them to Islam - had any muslim beliefs or traditions imposed on them - been stopped from doing anything at all by the muslim community because they objected to it The OP mentions that 1 in 4 British Muslims want Sharia Law to replace British Law. So 75% of the Muslims surveyed DON'T want Sharia Law to replace British Law. We live in a democracy and if 75% of British Muslims surveyed don't want Sharia Law to replace British Law then it's never going to be put in place is it. None in 4 should want shariah law None should think it right to not report hate crime None should think homosexuality is illegal And if they do, well they are in the wrong place. . Taxi to heathrow and look at a map of the Middle East where their beliefs and traditions will be embraced and encouraged
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 13, 2016 11:00:47 GMT
I don't understand this line of argument. What beliefs and traditions are being imposed on us? I'd be interested to know if anyone on this board has ever - had anyone in the muslim community try and convert them to Islam - had any muslim beliefs or traditions imposed on them - been stopped from doing anything at all by the muslim community because they objected to it The OP mentions that 1 in 4 British Muslims want Sharia Law to replace British Law. So 75% of the Muslims surveyed DON'T want Sharia Law to replace British Law. We live in a democracy and if 75% of British Muslims surveyed don't want Sharia Law to replace British Law then it's never going to be put in place is it. None in 4 should want shariah law None should think it right to not report hate crime None should think homosexuality is illegal And if they do, well they are in the wrong place. . Taxi to heathrow and look at a map of the Middle East where their beliefs and traditions will be embraced and encouraged if you think the figures for "White, british christians" would be 100% for all of those things (ignoring the sharia law part obviously) then you're deluded mate would 0% think homosexuality should be illegal? nope, there are still some that around that are massively homophobic and won't change that opinion would 100% report hate crime? no chance if you read half the shit the EDL & Britain First say...they'd be the ones committing the hate crime would 100% report terrorists living in their street? nope out of fear anyone that thinks that these stats are exclusive to Muslims needs to give their head a wobble and look at how a lot of "British" people think and view the world (and have done long BEFORE all this Islamophobia began to take hold)
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Apr 13, 2016 11:04:18 GMT
Rather ironically one of Shangy's buddies on this forum hates homosexuals & therefore doesn't conform with British values. Can we fuck him off to the Middle East?
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Post by Rick Grimes on Apr 13, 2016 11:12:49 GMT
I don't understand this line of argument. What beliefs and traditions are being imposed on us? I'd be interested to know if anyone on this board has ever - had anyone in the muslim community try and convert them to Islam - had any muslim beliefs or traditions imposed on them - been stopped from doing anything at all by the muslim community because they objected to it The OP mentions that 1 in 4 British Muslims want Sharia Law to replace British Law. So 75% of the Muslims surveyed DON'T want Sharia Law to replace British Law. We live in a democracy and if 75% of British Muslims surveyed don't want Sharia Law to replace British Law then it's never going to be put in place is it. None in 4 should want shariah law None should think it right to not report hate crime None should think homosexuality is illegal And if they do, well they are in the wrong place. . Taxi to heathrow and look at a map of the Middle East where their beliefs and traditions will be embraced and encouraged I'd agree that none should want any of those things mentioned but I'm not talking about morals here. I'm talking about you moaning about muslims imposing their traditions and beliefs in the UK and I'm saying that you're moaning/worrying about nothing, your beliefs and traditions are not going to be impacted by this minority because they simply do not have the means to impose their beliefs on us. It would be very interesting to find out what the scores for non Muslim UK residents would show if they were asked the questions regarding hate crimes and homosexuality.
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Post by manmarking on Apr 13, 2016 11:13:11 GMT
None in 4 should want shariah law None should think it right to not report hate crime None should think homosexuality is illegal And if they do, well they are in the wrong place. . Taxi to heathrow and look at a map of the Middle East where their beliefs and traditions will be embraced and encouraged if you think the figures for "White, british christians" would be 100% for all of those things (ignoring the sharia law part obviously) then you're deluded mate would 0% think homosexuality should be illegal? nope, there are still some that around that are massively homophobic and won't change that opinion would 100% report hate crime? no chance if you read half the shit the EDL & Britain First say...they'd be the ones committing the hate crime would 100% report terrorists living in their street? nope out of fear anyone that thinks that these stats are exclusive to Muslims needs to give their head a wobble and look at how a lot of "British" people think and view the world (and have done long BEFORE all this Islamophobia began to take hold) Excellent post mick and very true For the record I actually think there is a genuine problem surrounding integration within certain sections of the Muslim community in Britain. One that's too frequently ignored because people are afraid to be perceived as racist. HOWEVER, as you rightly say there are plenty of "indigenous" types that hate gays, advocate draconian laws, condone certain crimes and not others etc etc - as even the most cursory glance at a handful of threads on the EE Board will confirm. Personally I'm in favour of fucking off ALL the intolerant people to somewhere that's less tolerant, regardless of their race, creed or religion. Let them all go and not tolerate each other somewhere else
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 11:40:23 GMT
I'll try to make this simple. If your wife bought you a white shirt for your birthday, but you really wanted some trousers , would you put yr legs in the arms and make do, or would you perhaps ask her if she had kept the receipt and maybe exchange them. And do any of you think that anyone other than Muslims want's any form of shariha law. And any non Muslim in the UK thinks attacking people for disrespecting Mohammed is acceptable. As far as me being an expat in Thailand goes well yes. You are correct. I see lots here id like to change. But if I gob off about it I'd be locked up, have the crap beaten out of me and deported. And wether my friends here , either current or past hate homosexual s is irrelevant
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Post by partickpotter on Apr 13, 2016 11:54:35 GMT
if you think the figures for "White, british christians" would be 100% for all of those things (ignoring the sharia law part obviously) then you're deluded mate would 0% think homosexuality should be illegal? nope, there are still some that around that are massively homophobic and won't change that opinion would 100% report hate crime? no chance if you read half the shit the EDL & Britain First say...they'd be the ones committing the hate crime would 100% report terrorists living in their street? nope out of fear anyone that thinks that these stats are exclusive to Muslims needs to give their head a wobble and look at how a lot of "British" people think and view the world (and have done long BEFORE all this Islamophobia began to take hold) Excellent post mick and very true For the record I actually think there is a genuine problem surrounding integration within certain sections of the Muslim community in Britain. One that's too frequently ignored because people are afraid to be perceived as racist. HOWEVER, as you rightly say there are plenty of "indigenous" types that hate gays, advocate draconian laws, condone certain crimes and not others etc etc - as even the most cursory glance at a handful of threads on the EE Board will confirm. Personally I'm in favour of fucking off ALL the intolerant people to somewhere that's less tolerant, regardless of their race, creed or religion. Let them all go and not tolerate each other somewhere else Hold on - you're clearly intolerant of intolerant people so you'd have to join them in their land of intolerance (wherever that is!).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 12:05:19 GMT
Quick question for the apologists. Gonna look at 3 groups of well known and well documented people. The July 7th bombers. The paedo ring from Rotherham. The murderers of lee rigby. You care to hazard a guess as to wether or not they are part of yr beloved 1 in 4 .
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Post by jukeboxjury on Apr 13, 2016 12:29:29 GMT
Heres a link which I think shows how the British government are hiding the truth re 7/7. Also a good source of info on the murder of Gunner Lee Rigby. www.richplanet.net.
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Post by Rick Grimes on Apr 13, 2016 12:31:51 GMT
Quick question for the apologists. Gonna look at 3 groups of well known and well documented people. The July 7th bombers. The paedo ring from Rotherham. The murderers of lee rigby. You care to hazard a guess as to wether or not they are part of yr beloved 1 in 4 . You appear to have completely misunderstood the point I made. I'm not saying that muslims who hold the views that you've taken issue with such as sharia law and homosexuality can't be challenged or criticised. I'm saying that they are in such a minority that it's not possible for them to impose their beliefs or traditions on the people who live in the UK which is something that you and others seem to be so concerned about.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 13, 2016 13:19:46 GMT
Anyone here reckon there will be a similar message board in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc etc etc moaning about " Pakistani Christians" et el not integrating, wishing to impose Christian ways and customs on said Muslim countries...NOPE...Thought not. Fact is when we as expats decide to live in another country, or even our later generation offspring, in the case of Muslims born in UK, we do integrate, we do respect our host's way of life, and we certainly do not want to impose our beliefs and traditions upon them... If there was a similar message board like this Saudi Arabia (which I doubt there is), then they might be discussing the 1.5m Christians that live in their land. Or in Pakistan they might be discussing the 2.5m Christians in their country. Religion, identity, nationality and integration are major issues in almost every country in the world. I guess all the British ex-pats living in Qatar are going to pray five times a day are they? Or are they living in their own bubble of ex-pats and getting pissed a lot? The latter is my experience - how very Musliam of them. Also, Muslims in Britain aren't necessarily ex-pats - in fact the thread is called 'British Muslims'. You're comparing two different things.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 13, 2016 13:28:29 GMT
Anyone here reckon there will be a similar message board in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran etc etc etc moaning about " Pakistani Christians" et el not integrating, wishing to impose Christian ways and customs on said Muslim countries...NOPE...Thought not. Fact is when we as expats decide to live in another country, or even our later generation offspring, in the case of Muslims born in UK, we do integrate, we do respect our host's way of life, and we certainly do not want to impose our beliefs and traditions upon them... If there was a similar message board like this Saudi Arabia (which I doubt there is), then they might be discussing the 1.5m Christians that live in their land. Or in Pakistan they might be discussing the 2.5m Christians in their country. Religion, identity, nationality and integration are major issues in almost every country in the world. I guess all the British ex-pats living in Qatar are going to pray five times a day are they? Or are they living in their own bubble of ex-pats and getting pissed a lot? The latter is my experience - how very Musliam of them. Also, Muslims in Britain aren't necessarily ex-pats - in fact the thread is called 'British Muslims'. You're comparing two different things. What is Musliam.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Apr 13, 2016 13:34:57 GMT
Heres a link which I think shows how the British government are hiding the truth re 7/7. Also a good source of info on the murder of Gunner Lee Rigby. www.richplanet.net. 'Richplanet' also inform us of 'Top Secret communications between the Government & an alien Planet named Serpo' So secret that only they and a few million readers know about it. The planet that STARKILLER originates from.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 13, 2016 13:40:47 GMT
If there was a similar message board like this Saudi Arabia (which I doubt there is), then they might be discussing the 1.5m Christians that live in their land. Or in Pakistan they might be discussing the 2.5m Christians in their country. Religion, identity, nationality and integration are major issues in almost every country in the world. I guess all the British ex-pats living in Qatar are going to pray five times a day are they? Or are they living in their own bubble of ex-pats and getting pissed a lot? The latter is my experience - how very Musliam of them. Also, Muslims in Britain aren't necessarily ex-pats - in fact the thread is called 'British Muslims'. You're comparing two different things. What is Musliam. A typo, which is semi-modern slang for a typographical error. This where a person accidentally uses the wrong letters to spell a word, creating a different word that often, but not always, does not exist. Historically typographical errors have led to many misunderstandings, often minor but sometimes leading to disastrous consequences. This often occurs when the misspelling leads to another word being created that has a completely different meaning than the intended one - this is known as an 'atomic typo'. A cause of typos can be something that is known as 'fat-finger syndrome', where by the typist continually presses an additional key, often next to the intended key, at the same time. Traditionally typos were considered to be unfortunate accidents, but a recent craze has been to highlights typos in someone's argument and use them to discredit a theory with which the critic has no response to. Although widely known to be an absolute chancer's response, this continues to be tolerated, and sometimes even promoted, by some parts of society. Hope that clears it up.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 13, 2016 13:48:24 GMT
Quick question for the apologists. Gonna look at 3 groups of well known and well documented people. The July 7th bombers. The paedo ring from Rotherham. The murderers of lee rigby. You care to hazard a guess as to wether or not they are part of yr beloved 1 in 4 . 1) using the word apologist when no-one is an "apologist" is childish, petty and completely demeans your argument. you're simply trying to label people who disagree with you as you think it will belittle their argument...to any sensible poster it won't, it merely makes yours look weak for having to resort to such tactics 2) bringing up those kinds of examples does not in any way back up anything you've said. i could come across countless examples where Muslims have done good in this society...would that be relevant to this thread? no...this thread is discussing statistics so OBVIOUSLY given the statistics quoted there will be Muslims who are of the unsavoury variety (that's what those statistics are actually pointing out!). however, as has been mentioned, those stats actually prove it IS just a minority that are the bad apples and the vast majority don't agree with any of those actions or ides. no-one would dispute that 100% of people (regardless of religious bent or skin colour or nationality) SHOULD want to live by just 1 law, would report anything suspicious and not commit any hate crime but it just isn't reality. the reality is that there are and always will be those against those principles and ideas. that goes for EVERY country and every section of society within that country...white, black, christian, jew, muslim, woman, man...it's something called "Being part of the human race". whether you like to admit it or not there are plenty of white, british people that don't want to live by the law the rest of live by, don't want homosexuality legalised and don't want to report terrorist in their street and i could come up many, many, many more examples of atrocities they (white, british christians) have committed over decades because of their ideas. simply bringing up some of the minority (which the stats already prove exist) and what they've done as some way to try to back up your argument is ludicrous mate...no-one anywhere on this thread has even inferred that there aren't Muslims out there who are radical and fundamental have they????? you're trying to argue against an argument that literally no-one has made
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Apr 13, 2016 13:49:24 GMT
Quick question for the apologists. Gonna look at 3 groups of well known and well documented people. The July 7th bombers. The paedo ring from Rotherham. The murderers of lee rigby. You care to hazard a guess as to wether or not they are part of yr beloved 1 in 4 . You appear to have completely and intentionally misunderstood the point I made because you have no argument against it. I'm not saying that muslims who hold the views that you've taken issue with such as sharia law and homosexuality can't be challenged or criticised. I'm saying that they are in such a minority that it's not possible for them to impose their beliefs or traditions on the people who live in the UK which is something that you and others seem to be so concerned about. amended your first line for accuracy
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Post by mumf on Apr 13, 2016 13:57:14 GMT
Fuck it ....I might sell the 4 bed roomed semi next to the golf club , buy a pair of sandals , and some curtains to cover Ilda ....and let cultural waves wash over me .
Out goes the knives and forks too .
Im going medieval ....I going for more kids and every fucker will love me .
Might buy a jingle jangly elephant God thingy to hang up in the back of my 12 year old jingly jangly Toyota too.
Fuck the football off too ......pass me a cricket bat .
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Post by maninasuitcase on Apr 13, 2016 13:59:28 GMT
If there was a similar message board like this Saudi Arabia (which I doubt there is), then they might be discussing the 1.5m Christians that live in their land. Or in Pakistan they might be discussing the 2.5m Christians in their country. Religion, identity, nationality and integration are major issues in almost every country in the world. I guess all the British ex-pats living in Qatar are going to pray five times a day are they? Or are they living in their own bubble of ex-pats and getting pissed a lot? The latter is my experience - how very Musliam of them. Also, Muslims in Britain aren't necessarily ex-pats - in fact the thread is called 'British Muslims'. You're comparing two different things. What is Musliam. Probably another type of follower of Islam.
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Post by manmarking on Apr 13, 2016 14:06:05 GMT
If there was a similar message board like this Saudi Arabia (which I doubt there is), then they might be discussing the 1.5m Christians that live in their land. Or in Pakistan they might be discussing the 2.5m Christians in their country. Religion, identity, nationality and integration are major issues in almost every country in the world. I guess all the British ex-pats living in Qatar are going to pray five times a day are they? Or are they living in their own bubble of ex-pats and getting pissed a lot? The latter is my experience - how very Musliam of them. Also, Muslims in Britain aren't necessarily ex-pats - in fact the thread is called 'British Muslims'. You're comparing two different things. What is Musliam. Thank goodness you're back on EE again to share your incisive wit with us all, carps! Any chance you could do a compendium soon - of every post you've ever written that made some kind of sense? It could form a haiku perhaps
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Post by Rick Grimes on Apr 13, 2016 14:09:29 GMT
You appear to have completely and intentionally misunderstood the point I made because you have no argument against it. I'm not saying that muslims who hold the views that you've taken issue with such as sharia law and homosexuality can't be challenged or criticised. I'm saying that they are in such a minority that it's not possible for them to impose their beliefs or traditions on the people who live in the UK which is something that you and others seem to be so concerned about. amended your first line for accuracy I thought I'd give him the benefit of the doubt
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Post by manmarking on Apr 13, 2016 14:14:35 GMT
Fuck it ....I might sell the 4 bed roomed semi next to the golf club , buy a pair of sandals , and some curtains to cover Ilda ....and let cultural waves wash over me . Out goes the knives and forks too . Im going medieval ....I going for more kids and every fucker will love me . Might buy a jingle jangly elephant God thingy to hang up in the back of my 12 year old jingly jangly Toyota too. Fuck the football off too ......pass me a cricket bat . Well you agree with the sharia nutters on stuff like homosexuality and punishing criminals so it's not such a zany idea really
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 14:39:15 GMT
if you think the figures for "White, british christians" would be 100% for all of those things (ignoring the sharia law part obviously) then you're deluded mate would 0% think homosexuality should be illegal? nope, there are still some that around that are massively homophobic and won't change that opinion would 100% report hate crime? no chance if you read half the shit the EDL & Britain First say...they'd be the ones committing the hate crime would 100% report terrorists living in their street? nope out of fear anyone that thinks that these stats are exclusive to Muslims needs to give their head a wobble and look at how a lot of "British" people think and view the world (and have done long BEFORE all this Islamophobia began to take hold) Excellent post mick and very true For the record I actually think there is a genuine problem surrounding integration within certain sections of the Muslim community in Britain. One that's too frequently ignored because people are afraid to be perceived as racist. HOWEVER, as you rightly say there are plenty of "indigenous" types that hate gays, advocate draconian laws, condone certain crimes and not others etc etc - as even the most cursory glance at a handful of threads on the EE Board will confirm. Personally I'm in favour of fucking off ALL the intolerant people to somewhere that's less tolerant, regardless of their race, creed or religion. Let them all go and not tolerate each other somewhere else Personally I'm in favour of fucking off ALL the intolerant people to somewhere that's less tolerant, regardless of their race, creed or religion. Let them all go and not tolerate each other somewhere else
You do realise that makes YOU an intolerant person don't ya.
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