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Post by imho on Feb 12, 2016 14:47:57 GMT
I would feel fine if the outcome meant he was innocent, he should then be allowed to continue his life in any occupation as a innocent man (don't think it'll happen tho') Thanks , for the record , having read all the transcripts from the trial and the basis for appeal I personally think he will ! Not just trying to answer you back but I've done the same in relation to the full court case and his current publicised grounds for appeal. and still don't think he'll win. I won't go into my reasons here (as not about him) but the Evans case is a really interesting one if you like that sort of thing (law I mean).
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djh
Youth Player
Posts: 309
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Post by djh on Feb 12, 2016 14:49:37 GMT
The updates are disgusting and show AJ for what he is, a dirty nonce. I am fucking fuming here, very soon after his lass gave birth to his child too - disgusting. Lock Big Sam in a cell with him for 5 mins and get him to show no fucking mercy, or any hard man for that matter. Hope he never plays football again, the fucking rat. It's a terrible betrayal of trust. This kid clearly hero-worshiped Johnson and had a teenage crush on him too. She had a picture of her and Johnson outside the Stadium of Light on her Facebook page and his name on the back of her Sunderland shirt. Instead of just enjoying the adoration and thanking his lucky stars for the life he gets to lead due to his talent for football the first thing that this low life thought to do was to start fumbling with the zip on her jeans.
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Post by southcranford on Feb 12, 2016 14:50:57 GMT
He has a banging missus and, if she wasnt enough for him, then he could have gone out and cased up literally hundreds of other (most likely also banging) women who were over the age of legal consent, achieving this solely because he is a footballer. The fact that he chose to contact, groom and then do things with a child of 15 is enough for me to call him a nonce. If he were an unemployed loner, living in a squalid council flat and fit the aesthetic profile of a sex offender, there would be no one anywhere making any attempts at a defence of him. He'll never play again (and quite rightly so).
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Post by MilanStokie on Feb 12, 2016 14:51:21 GMT
I think Johnson will end up with the maximum penalty allowed - however long that maybe. My point isn't that the sentence will stop the chap continuing with his career but the nature of the crime itself will make him untouchable. I'm not saying that what Johnson has done is any worse (or the opposite) but I do think certain crimes carry more negativity with them. Based on what though? Has there been a similar case before? Or just pure speculation on your part? There is a player who cost £10m recently, still in the peak of his career who may be the right side of 30 when he gets out (if he goes in!) Teams a few divisions below will be jumping at the chance of signing him, no matter what history he has. What you are saying is, because you feel very strongly about the crime he has committed, that he shouldn't be allowed to work again, which isn't correct. Depending on the length of his sentence, I still think he will pop up somewhere down the football ladder in a couple of years.
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Post by southcranford on Feb 12, 2016 14:55:49 GMT
I think Johnson will end up with the maximum penalty allowed - however long that maybe. My point isn't that the sentence will stop the chap continuing with his career but the nature of the crime itself will make him untouchable. I'm not saying that what Johnson has done is any worse (or the opposite) but I do think certain crimes carry more negativity with them. Based on what though? Has there been a similar case before? Or just pure speculation on your part? There is a player who cost £10m recently, still in the peak of his career who may be the right side of 30 when he gets out (if he goes in!) Teams a few divisions below will be jumping at the chance of signing him, no matter what history he has. What you are saying is, because you feel very strongly about the crime he has committed, that he shouldn't be allowed to work again, which isn't correct. Depending on the length of his sentence, I still think he will pop up somewhere down the football ladder in a couple of years. I dont think it really matters if clubs are prepared to take him on...sponsers will have none of it and there will be an even bigger media outcry than we saw with the Ched Evan situation. I imagine there would be some part of sentancing that would include a ban on working with children, which may cause issues for a club and community engagement projects
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Post by salopstick on Feb 12, 2016 14:57:35 GMT
They got his internet history
He searched for age of consent
But still carried on
What a cunt
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Post by imho on Feb 12, 2016 15:00:13 GMT
I think Johnson will end up with the maximum penalty allowed - however long that maybe. My point isn't that the sentence will stop the chap continuing with his career but the nature of the crime itself will make him untouchable. I'm not saying that what Johnson has done is any worse (or the opposite) but I do think certain crimes carry more negativity with them. Based on what though? Has there been a similar case before? Or just pure speculation on your part? There is a player who cost £10m recently, still in the peak of his career who may be the right side of 30 when he gets out (if he goes in!) Teams a few divisions below will be jumping at the chance of signing him, no matter what history he has. What you are saying is, because you feel very strongly about the crime he has committed, that he shouldn't be allowed to work again, which isn't correct. Depending on the length of his sentence, I still think he will pop up somewhere down the football ladder in a couple of years. Are you joking. Have you not heard about all the shit clubs got when they were thinking of signing Chad Evans. This chap groomed a kid and you think it's just my opinion that he won't be allowed to play football again. Yes I do feel strongly but I can also be rational and realistic. If he was a teacher he would be banned for life, but being a footballer doesn't carry that legal lifetime ban however what club would want to take the risk, especially when you factor in Chad evans and a lot of people think he's innocent.
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 12, 2016 15:02:59 GMT
The updates are disgusting and show AJ for what he is, a dirty nonce. I am fucking fuming here, very soon after his lass gave birth to his child too - disgusting. Lock Big Sam in a cell with him for 5 mins and get him to show no fucking mercy, or any hard man for that matter. Hope he never plays football again, the fucking rat. Not Pardew though, have some mercy
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 15:07:38 GMT
It seemed the examples you used, were the same I used. However, you seemed to think I was comparing the crimes, which I wasn't. Are we thinking Johnson is likely to get a sentence longer than a manslaughter charge? I suppose if he is found guilty on all charges, perhaps a lengthy sentence is forthcoming, but what is he likely to get for pleading guilty to grooming but isn't found guilty on anything else? I personally don't think anything will generally stop a footballer from continuing in their profession, unless the length of sentence directly affects the person from maintaining fitness and practice. Another example, Marlon King has come back each time after lengthy spells in jail. As it stands currently, what he's pleaded guilty to carries a maximum of 18 months Jail. No it doesn't. The maximum is 10 years on indictment. The guidelines suggest a starting point of 18 months with a range of 12-30 months
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 15:12:36 GMT
Mods/Admis - Why were posts from this thread deleted last night? We're all adults, just not necessary in my opinion. Do you really think we're going to allow posts questioning whether it's wrong to have sex with a 15 year-old to remain on the board? I think it was a bit of a knee jerk reaction to be fair, and censorship at its finest. People were questioning primarily the difference between law and morality. Nobody was saying that's what they want to do and think it should be okay to do it.
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Post by spongebobflathead on Feb 12, 2016 15:24:51 GMT
I think Johnson will end up with the maximum penalty allowed - however long that maybe. My point isn't that the sentence will stop the chap continuing with his career but the nature of the crime itself will make him untouchable. I'm not saying that what Johnson has done is any worse (or the opposite) but I do think certain crimes carry more negativity with them. Based on what though? Has there been a similar case before? Or just pure speculation on your part? There is a player who cost £10m recently, still in the peak of his career who may be the right side of 30 when he gets out (if he goes in!) Teams a few divisions below will be jumping at the chance of signing him, no matter what history he has. What you are saying is, because you feel very strongly about the crime he has committed, that he shouldn't be allowed to work again, which isn't correct. Depending on the length of his sentence, I still think he will pop up somewhere down the football ladder in a couple of years. Seriously ???? If convicted not in a million years , he would have to sign the sex offenders register and be barred with working with children , There is a world of difference between having a conviction of a sexual nature and being a fucking nonce (which he clearly is ) !
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Post by MilanStokie on Feb 12, 2016 15:26:14 GMT
Based on what though? Has there been a similar case before? Or just pure speculation on your part? There is a player who cost £10m recently, still in the peak of his career who may be the right side of 30 when he gets out (if he goes in!) Teams a few divisions below will be jumping at the chance of signing him, no matter what history he has. What you are saying is, because you feel very strongly about the crime he has committed, that he shouldn't be allowed to work again, which isn't correct. Depending on the length of his sentence, I still think he will pop up somewhere down the football ladder in a couple of years. Are you joking. Have you not heard about all the shit clubs got when they were thinking of signing Chad Evans. This chap groomed a kid and you think it's just my opinion that he won't be allowed to play football again. Yes I do feel strongly but I can also be rational and realistic. If he was a teacher he would be banned for life, but being a footballer doesn't carry that legal lifetime ban however what club would want to take the risk, especially when you factor in Chad evans and a lot of people think he's innocent. No joking mate. Didn't you just deny comparing Evans and Johnson crimes and then compare them again? I am confused. To my recollection, there hasn't been a similar case like this. So to simply state he will never play again, is just pure guesswork at this stage. All I can say is, other serious crimes have been committed by footballers, without trying to justify anything or compare 1 crime to another and yet they have gone on to play for clubs after serving their time. If they guy gets out before his 30's there is no real reason to suggest it would be any different. Maybe the issues relating to working in an environment where children are could cause issues but then he could just play abroad and escape the whole thing altogether.
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Post by MilanStokie on Feb 12, 2016 15:29:42 GMT
Based on what though? Has there been a similar case before? Or just pure speculation on your part? There is a player who cost £10m recently, still in the peak of his career who may be the right side of 30 when he gets out (if he goes in!) Teams a few divisions below will be jumping at the chance of signing him, no matter what history he has. What you are saying is, because you feel very strongly about the crime he has committed, that he shouldn't be allowed to work again, which isn't correct. Depending on the length of his sentence, I still think he will pop up somewhere down the football ladder in a couple of years. Seriously ???? If convicted not in a million years , he would have to sign the sex offenders register and be barred with working with children , There is a world of difference between having a conviction of a sexual nature and being a fucking nonce (which he clearly is ) ! That's just it, he hasn't been convicted, he has pled not guilty on the other counts. He might get 18 months and have it halved for all we know. If he is convicted of other counts, then a lengthy spell in prison is forthcoming and this whole debate is pointless anyway.
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Post by spongebobflathead on Feb 12, 2016 15:35:25 GMT
Seriously ???? If convicted not in a million years , he would have to sign the sex offenders register and be barred with working with children , There is a world of difference between having a conviction of a sexual nature and being a fucking nonce (which he clearly is ) ! That's just it, he hasn't been convicted, he has pled not guilty on the other counts. He might get 18 months and have it halved for all we know. If he is convicted of other counts, then a lengthy spell in prison is forthcoming and this whole debate is pointless anyway. On the charge of grooming he has pleaded guilty so will obviously found guilty , on that basis he will be classed as a paedophile , Football clubs do not (and probably legally from a safeguarding perspective ) employ paedophiles !
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Post by imho on Feb 12, 2016 15:38:59 GMT
Milanstokie I think we might be talking crossed messages here.
Legally once the court case is over and any prison time served there is nothing stopping him continuing his career. In reality that isn't going to happen - you asked for an example, I gave one where a convicted footballer hasn't been able to continue his career. I didn't compare just answered your own question so you shouldn't be confused.
Additionally you seem (though I might be mistaken) that his length of sentence will have an impact on if a club wants him or not - if anything is not the length of the sentence but th severity of the crime that is going to impact his future.
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Post by MilanStokie on Feb 12, 2016 15:40:51 GMT
That's just it, he hasn't been convicted, he has pled not guilty on the other counts. He might get 18 months and have it halved for all we know. If he is convicted of other counts, then a lengthy spell in prison is forthcoming and this whole debate is pointless anyway. On the charge of grooming he has pleaded guilty so will obviously found guilty , on that basis he will be classed as a paedophile , Football clubs do not (and probably legally from a safeguarding perspective ) employ paedophiles ! Could be the case, I think clubs would still be interested but outside interest may interfere, in the same way it has with Evans. (Sponsors threatening cancellation of contracts, MPs, etc) Actually come to think of it, if you are the sex offenders register, you are banned from working abroad as well. Ah well, I suppose it will be interesting to see how it all prevails.
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Post by thebet365 on Feb 12, 2016 15:41:17 GMT
As it stands currently, what he's pleaded guilty to carries a maximum of 18 months Jail. No it doesn't. The maximum is 10 years on indictment. The guidelines suggest a starting point of 18 months with a range of 12-30 months I know sod all about law like this, I was just going off the article I read yesterday which mentioned the guidelines. I presumed 18 months being the most as the press usually like to report the maximum sentence people face. Is the 10 years if he's found guilty of everything ? Or just for the 2 he's pleaded guilty to, meaning he could be facing longer ?
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Post by MilanStokie on Feb 12, 2016 15:44:02 GMT
Milanstokie I think we might be talking crossed messages here. Legally once the court case is over and any prison time served there is nothing stopping him continuing his career. In reality that isn't going to happen - you asked for an example, I gave one where a convicted footballer hasn't been able to continue his career. I didn't compare just answered your own question so you shouldn't be confused. Additionally you seem (though I might be mistaken) that his length of sentence will have an impact on if a club wants him or not - if anything is not the length of the sentence but th severity of the crime that is going to impact his future. I still cannot see why clubs won't try. Lots of clubs tried and are still trying to sign Evans but outside interference generally stops it. As I said before, who knows what will happen.
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Post by salopstick on Feb 12, 2016 15:52:23 GMT
No it doesn't. The maximum is 10 years on indictment. The guidelines suggest a starting point of 18 months with a range of 12-30 months I know sod all about law like this, I was just going off the article I read yesterday which mentioned the guidelines. I presumed 18 months being the most as the press usually like to report the maximum sentence people face. Is the 10 years if he's found guilty of everything ? Or just for the 2 he's pleaded guilty to, meaning he could be facing longer ? Pleading guilty will lessen the sentence. If found guilty of the two further crimes after pleading not guilty that can worsen that sentence Either way he is fucked.
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Post by imho on Feb 12, 2016 15:55:06 GMT
Going away from recent posts but still on topic - what makes a persons other half stand by them.
Not to focus on Evans again but at least he maintains his innocence (though he still had sex behind his other half's back), but in this case how can she walk in court with him after he pleaded guilty.
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Post by salopstick on Feb 12, 2016 15:56:00 GMT
Going away from recent posts but still on topic - what makes a persons other half stand by them. Not to focus on Evans again but at least he maintains his innocence (though he still had sex behind his other half's back), but in this case how can she walk in court with him after he pleaded guilty. ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££
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Post by imho on Feb 12, 2016 15:59:05 GMT
Going away from recent posts but still on topic - what makes a persons other half stand by them. Not to focus on Evans again but at least he maintains his innocence (though he still had sex behind his other half's back), but in this case how can she walk in court with him after he pleaded guilty. ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££ Thanks for explaining it to me
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 16:05:37 GMT
No it doesn't. The maximum is 10 years on indictment. The guidelines suggest a starting point of 18 months with a range of 12-30 months I know sod all about law like this, I was just going off the article I read yesterday which mentioned the guidelines. I presumed 18 months being the most as the press usually like to report the maximum sentence people face. Is the 10 years if he's found guilty of everything ? Or just for the 2 he's pleaded guilty to, meaning he could be facing longer ? 10 years is just the maximum sentence for the offences he's pleaded guilty to. He won't be sentenced to that though....the same way as theft of a Honda badge off a car carries a maximum of 7 years but you will never ever receive that. The other offences he's pleaded not guilty to will be the serious ones. If one of those involved penetrative sexual activity he's in Category 1 with loads of factors increasing culpability. The staring point for a 1A offence is 5 years.
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Post by stokefc on Feb 12, 2016 16:14:37 GMT
not only is he a dirty nonce he,s a dirty lying cheating nonce throw away the key dirty fucking bastard he makes me want to
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Post by southcranford on Feb 12, 2016 16:20:21 GMT
Going away from recent posts but still on topic - what makes a persons other half stand by them. Not to focus on Evans again but at least he maintains his innocence (though he still had sex behind his other half's back), but in this case how can she walk in court with him after he pleaded guilty. I'd be very skeptical about the extent to which she is standing by him. A lot of it can be PR, and trying to portray a certain image to the jury. Wouldnt be surprised if behind closed doors she wants fuck all do with him.
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lwspj
Academy Starlet
Posts: 104
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Post by lwspj on Feb 12, 2016 16:28:47 GMT
That's just it, he hasn't been convicted, he has pled not guilty on the other counts. He might get 18 months and have it halved for all we know. If he is convicted of other counts, then a lengthy spell in prison is forthcoming and this whole debate is pointless anyway. On the charge of grooming he has pleaded guilty so will obviously found guilty , on that basis he will be classed as a paedophile , Football clubs do not (and probably legally from a safeguarding perspective ) employ paedophiles ! There are a lot of inaccuracies and misleading statements on ths thread (And yes, as a recently retired academic criminal lawyer and criminologist, I do know something about this area) Broadly speaking, two separate issues have been discussed: the rights and wrongs of what Johnson has done, and what will happen to him after conviction Johnson has been a complete fool and, given his partner was pregnant at the time, a pretty unpleasant piece of work. But a lot of posters have used the girl's age to call him a paedophile. This is incorrect, as paedophiles are defined as people who are sexually aroused by pre-pubescent children. Moreover, in some countries - such as Spain - Johnson would not necessarily have even committed a crime. Sex with girls as young as 13 can be legal there. 'Grooming' (a relatively new offence) in this case means little more than that he chatted her up and encouraged her to have sex None of this is to condone what Johnson has done - I am just pointing out that there is an arbitrary division in this country between 15 and 16: at 15 he is a monster and at 16 he is not committing a criminal offence As far as his future is concerned, in this day and age he will never play professional football again - at least, in this country. He will go to prison, although the length of his sentence will depend on whether he is convicted of the other charges. Some yaers ago, Graham Rix was imprisoned for a year, but those were different times and attitudes have hardened since then
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 12, 2016 16:41:50 GMT
On the charge of grooming he has pleaded guilty so will obviously found guilty , on that basis he will be classed as a paedophile , Football clubs do not (and probably legally from a safeguarding perspective ) employ paedophiles ! There are a lot of inaccuracies and misleading statements on ths thread (And yes, as a recently retired academic criminal lawyer and criminologist, I do know something about this area) Broadly speaking, two separate issues have been discussed: the rights and wrongs of what Johnson has done, and what will happen to him after conviction Johnson has been a complete fool and, given his partner was pregnant at the time, a pretty unpleasant piece of work. But a lot of posters have used the girl's age to call him a paedophile. This is incorrect, as paedophiles are defined as people who are sexually aroused by pre-pubescent children. Moreover, in some countries - such as Spain - Johnson would not necessarily have even committed a crime. Sex with girls as young as 13 can be legal there. 'Grooming' (a relatively new offence) in this case means little more than that he chatted her up and encouraged her to have sex None of this is to condone what Johnson has done - I am just pointing out that there is an arbitrary division in this country between 15 and 16: at 15 he is a monster and at 16 he is not committing a criminal offence As far as his future is concerned, in this day and age he will never play professional football again - at least, in this country. He will go to prison, although the length of his sentence will depend on whether he is convicted of the other charges. Some yaers ago, Graham Rix was imprisoned for a year, but those were different times and attitudes have hardened since then What do you mean by "those were different times and attitudes have hardened" - how would that affect the sentencing? Has the law or have the sentencing guidelines changed since then? Amazingly, Rix walked straight back into his old job at Chelsea upon his release from prison.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Feb 12, 2016 16:48:52 GMT
i don't see him playing any level of professional football again mate. we all saw the media and PR outrage at Ched Evans when Sheffield United were thinking of keeping him. That was a bloke who still insists he's innocent and had a far far smaller media presence in the game than Johnson does and Johnson has also freely admitted he did it (at least 2 charges anyway). complete PR suicide for any club at any level to go near him from here on in i reckon. career over, done, finito, dead as a fucking dodo Could easily be as you say, but many probably presumed the same about Lee Hughes and Luke McCormick, both of whom have managed to stay within the game at a very decent level. thing is though that (rightly or wrongly), death by dangerous driving isn't seen by the general public as being as bad as sexual activity with a child. can't really compare the 2 really when it comes to the media frenzy which will surround it.
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Post by salopstick on Feb 12, 2016 16:53:14 GMT
Thing is though he's made millions. He could live comfortable abroad after being released
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Post by spongebobflathead on Feb 12, 2016 16:55:30 GMT
On the charge of grooming he has pleaded guilty so will obviously found guilty , on that basis he will be classed as a paedophile , Football clubs do not (and probably legally from a safeguarding perspective ) employ paedophiles ! There are a lot of inaccuracies and misleading statements on ths thread (And yes, as a recently retired academic criminal lawyer and criminologist, I do know something about this area) Broadly speaking, two separate issues have been discussed: the rights and wrongs of what Johnson has done, and what will happen to him after conviction Johnson has been a complete fool and, given his partner was pregnant at the time, a pretty unpleasant piece of work. But a lot of posters have used the girl's age to call him a paedophile. This is incorrect, as paedophiles are defined as people who are sexually aroused by pre-pubescent children. Moreover, in some countries - such as Spain - Johnson would not necessarily have even committed a crime. Sex with girls as young as 13 can be legal there. 'Grooming' (a relatively new offence) in this case means little more than that he chatted her up and encouraged her to have sex None of this is to condone what Johnson has done - I am just pointing out that there is an arbitrary division in this country between 15 and 16: at 15 he is a monster and at 16 he is not committing a criminal offence As far as his future is concerned, in this day and age he will never play professional football again - at least, in this country. He will go to prison, although the length of his sentence will depend on whether he is convicted of the other charges. Some yaers ago, Graham Rix was imprisoned for a year, but those were different times and attitudes have hardened since then Grooming "little more than chatted her up and encouraged her to have sex " wow ! LITTLE MORE ? she is closer to 14 than 16 for fuck sake man !
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