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Post by chrisparker on Feb 8, 2016 1:47:40 GMT
I think this season is the first time we're facing this problem head-on. In the past, most teams in the league would come up against us & try to dominate the ball & I think that played in our favour. This season however teams have started showing us some respect (both home & away). They sit back, pull several players behind the ball & hit us on the break. We seem to really really struggle in these circumstances.
I think the fact that we are the only team this season who had more possession than United at Old Trafford says it all. Even the most stubborn manager in the league (bar Wenger) has decided to change his "sacred" philosophy to win against us. So the question is how do you win in these circumstances? I see 2 ways -
1) Some of our players need to be courageous enough to take on their marker & try & beat them in the hope of creating something. Sadly though, aside from Shaqiri on some occasions, no one is interested in doing that. Imbula might prove to the exception.
2) Play through the opposition. I get the feeling that this is what Mark Hughes is trying to do but the fact is we cannot do this with players like Afellay & Whelan in the centre of midfield. They're much too slow. And you also can't do it with players like Diouf & Crouch. It's not their natural game. Teams like Arsenal & Tottenham, who're very successful at doing this all have one trait in common - They play fast one-touch football. False 9 is the best option if we want to adopt this style of play. Shaqiri's first goal against Everton is the text-book example of how it ought to be done. Also Bojan & Ireland are good players to have if we are to play in this fashion. They thrive on flicks & clicks.
Bournemouth is our next game. They like to keep the ball (they just out-possessed Arsenal yesterday) which is good news for us but I get this awful feeling that Eddie Howe will knowingly set his side up to sit back & hit us on the break. Well if that's the case, False 9 seems to be the best option. What do you say?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 2:08:34 GMT
Agree with most of point two however with a capable striker who is a decent player we don't need to do the false 9 we could stick with the more balanced 4-2-3-1 and have someone to aim crosses at when the situation arises.
We could play fast, one touch football with the right man up front.
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Post by uknorse on Feb 8, 2016 5:25:56 GMT
having a single shot on target might be a start
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 6:40:27 GMT
An early goal
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Post by heworksardtho on Feb 8, 2016 6:41:40 GMT
Try to hit the onion bag more than them
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Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 8, 2016 6:44:27 GMT
"False nine" ........Seems to be the in phrase of the season, even hear it from pundits. What does it mean?
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Post by clarkeda on Feb 8, 2016 7:00:23 GMT
Set pieces
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Post by potterglen on Feb 8, 2016 7:07:17 GMT
Agree with most of point two however with a capable striker who is a decent player we don't need to do the false 9 we could stick with the more balanced 4-2-3-1 and have someone to aim crosses at when the situation arises. We could play fast, one touch football with the right man up front. I'd bench Whelan for Afellay with Imbula, Arnie, Bojan and Shaq, with Diouf up front. Regarding Afellay, I think he's more than capable of getting the ball forward quickly with accuracy if instructed. What (I believe) we must do is to restrict the wing back going forward for the rest of the season - it's become the norm and is leaving us vulnerable to the counter. Let Shaq and Arnie do their jobs with the other like minded and capable players and we'll be scoring again. Through balls to Diouf and Bojan, low crosses and a few shots from Arnie and Shaq again.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 7:18:18 GMT
Move the ball quickly and often long diagonal's from one flank to the other will catch a lot of sides out, even the counter attacking sides. We hamstring ourselves though by playing wingers on their opposite flanks and using the full backs for width.
It creates a very slow build up and kills you dead before you start.
It's all easier said than done though because it relies, like most tactical systems, on a lot of players being on their game - something we haven't had for weeks in the league.
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Post by jeycov on Feb 8, 2016 7:31:27 GMT
Agree with most of point two however with a capable striker who is a decent player we don't need to do the false 9 we could stick with the more balanced 4-2-3-1 and have someone to aim crosses at when the situation arises. We could play fast, one touch football with the right man up front. Pacy football |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 8, 2016 7:47:00 GMT
Move the ball quickly and often long diagonal's from one flank to the other will catch a lot of sides out, even the counter attacking sides. We hamstring ourselves though by playing wingers on their opposite flanks and using the full backs for width. It creates a very slow build up and kills you dead before you start. It's all easier said than done though because it relies, like most tactical systems, on a lot of players being on their game - something we haven't had for weeks in the league. Bang on. We don't move the ball quickly enough. Look at how quickly Leicester move it - people on here make out like they're all long ball but they're really not - they get from front to back incredibly quickly. I think Imbula could help us with this. It'd be nice if someone had the bollocks to have a shot now and again as well. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Feb 8, 2016 7:50:23 GMT
"False nine" ........Seems to be the in phrase of the season, even hear it from pundits. What does it mean? It's where your nominal centre forward doesn't in reality play as one - he drops deeper and basically plays as a number 10. In theory that gives your front three greater fluidity and creates more space for midfielders and wide players to push forward by dragging defenders out of position. |
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Post by heavysoul on Feb 8, 2016 7:53:19 GMT
The team need to start practicing shooting from outside the area. We think we can walk the ball into the net! Or we try using intricate passes to get behind the defence. We then get dispossessed and the opposition break. DONT BE AFRAID TO SHOOT when the opportunity arises!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 7:58:04 GMT
Move the ball quickly and often long diagonal's from one flank to the other will catch a lot of sides out, even the counter attacking sides. We hamstring ourselves though by playing wingers on their opposite flanks and using the full backs for width. It creates a very slow build up and kills you dead before you start. It's all easier said than done though because it relies, like most tactical systems, on a lot of players being on their game - something we haven't had for weeks in the league. Bang on. We don't move the ball quickly enough. Look at how quickly Leicester move it - people on here make out like they're all long ball but they're really not - they get from front to back incredibly quickly. I think Imbula could help us with this. It'd be nice if someone had the bollocks to have a shot now and again as well. I agree. Imbula interests me a lot because he's a rare breed of central midfielder that can fetch and carry - right through the centre of the pitch. It will be incredibly effective (certainly away from home) and very exciting to watch, and it will open up more opportunities and will stretch teams in a way that not many Premier League teams can do. The lack of shooting is really getting on my wick. Call me a simpleton but how do you expect to score if you're not shooting? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 8:04:37 GMT
Play Charlie Adam in a deep role because he has a wide range of passes, plus he moves the ball quicker than most of our players. Shaqiri hugs the touch line and Charles can ping it to him in an instant.
Or go through them, our best performance this season was Norwich at home personally because it was the only game we really showed a plan B.
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Post by lordherefordsknob on Feb 8, 2016 8:09:00 GMT
Leicester can get the ball from their own box to the oppositions in 3 to 4 passes.
We take 15 passes to get to the halfway line.
That's the difference between 1st and tenth.
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Post by ryan4england on Feb 8, 2016 8:21:16 GMT
Buy players that take players on & players that hurry to get the ball back.
We lose the ball & it's right o.k drop back get shape and wait for them to missplace a pass. We have a team of 'footballers'.
Watch Leicester when they lose the ball, they are hungry, we are not.
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Post by Northy on Feb 8, 2016 8:32:48 GMT
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Post by pedro23 on Feb 8, 2016 9:03:16 GMT
Movement off the ball. Opposing teams are all now pretty much closing down quickly, pressing in numbers, and when we don't have the ball, don't give the opposition time to play their game. Sounds easy, but it's not. Lack of positive movement is causing players to be forced sideways and backwards. Forget Barcelona's ticky tacky, if you go to the Nou Camp you will see first hand how incredible their movement off the ball is. We played some great football going forward when Arnie was doing forward runs down the channel. The problem is the players need to be super fit, and not get pissed off every time they make a run and don't get passed to. We need to have a core of midfield which has genuine vision, and deliver a pass when a run is being made. We need to be patient (here is the ticky tacky bit) to work an opportunity. Most of all we need to be able to mix it up, go long when necessary, but with accuracy, and have pace upfront. This Premier league will continue to get more competitive, with the money available to all the clubs. Leicester have shown how to do it, but they have been lucky. Imagine if Vardy or Mahrez had been injured for any length of time.
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Post by scfc75 on Feb 8, 2016 9:05:01 GMT
having a single shot on target might be a start I'd like to see us give this a go. |
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Post by midtempo on Feb 8, 2016 10:24:35 GMT
Move the ball quickly and often long diagonal's from one flank to the other will catch a lot of sides out, even the counter attacking sides. We hamstring ourselves though by playing wingers on their opposite flanks and using the full backs for width. It creates a very slow build up and kills you dead before you start. It's all easier said than done though because it relies, like most tactical systems, on a lot of players being on their game - something we haven't had for weeks in the league. Agreed +1 Plan A - Inverted wingers, has been sussed out, and they do slow the game down its like walking football sometimes it gives the opposition the chance to get back into defensive shape. Plan B - take them off as they are ineffective ( as per Everton) why not swop them over and use them as out and out wingers. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 10:41:59 GMT
Play Charlie Adam in a deep role because he has a wide range of passes, plus he moves the ball quicker than most of our players. Shaqiri hugs the touch line and Charles can ping it to him in an instant. Or go through them, our best performance this season was Norwich at home personally because it was the only game we really showed a plan B. If you think the Norwich home game was our best performance the season, you've not seen many games. We squeezed past them with a man advantage. If we're honest, you can probably count on the fingers of one hand how many times we've been 'good'. We've been poor more often. And in the majority, bog average. |
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Post by metalhead on Feb 8, 2016 10:49:44 GMT
Did Everton really sit back and counter? They fashioned plenty of decent chances by just playing their own football.
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Post by silverdollar on Feb 8, 2016 10:51:58 GMT
I think this season is the first time we're facing this problem head-on. In the past, most teams in the league would come up against us & try to dominate the ball & I think that played in our favour. This season however teams have started showing us some respect (both home & away). They sit back, pull several players behind the ball & hit us on the break. We seem to really really struggle in these circumstances. I think the fact that we are the only team this season who had more possession than United at Old Trafford says it all. Even the most stubborn manager in the league (bar Wenger) has decided to change his "sacred" philosophy to win against us. So the question is how do you win in these circumstances? I see 2 ways - 1) Some of our players need to be courageous enough to take on their marker & try & beat them in the hope of creating something. Sadly though, aside from Shaqiri on some occasions, no one is interested in doing that. Imbula might prove to the exception. 2) Play through the opposition. I get the feeling that this is what Mark Hughes is trying to do but the fact is we cannot do this with players like Afellay & Whelan in the centre of midfield. They're much too slow. And you also can't do it with players like Diouf & Crouch. It's not their natural game. Teams like Arsenal & Tottenham, who're very successful at doing this all have one trait in common - They play fast one-touch football. False 9 is the best option if we want to adopt this style of play. Shaqiri's first goal against Everton is the text-book example of how it ought to be done. Also Bojan & Ireland are good players to have if we are to play in this fashion. They thrive on flicks & clicks. Bournemouth is our next game. They like to keep the ball (they just out-possessed Arsenal yesterday) which is good news for us but I get this awful feeling that Eddie Howe will knowingly set his side up to sit back & hit us on the break. Well if that's the case, False 9 seems to be the best option. What do you say? Phil? How an earth can you describe Affelay as "slow" ? He is adjusting to the Premier League but never ever is this player slow! |
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Post by march4 on Feb 8, 2016 10:55:00 GMT
1 Set pieces
2 Launching the ball 80 yards at every single opportunity.
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Post by rawli on Feb 8, 2016 11:13:00 GMT
1.Pace.
2. Don't be scared of long ball when appropriate.
3. Don't concede first.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 8, 2016 11:20:44 GMT
having a single shot on target might be a start Plus signing a decent CB to play alongside Ryan! |
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Post by vahl on Feb 8, 2016 11:33:47 GMT
In terms of how we play, we just have to remain patient and keep passing the ball the way we're doing. That's the most simple method.
There needs to be a little bit more directness from the wide areas and a few more players willing to pop off a shot or 2 but, other than that, we're not doing a lot wrong with how we play IMO.
Our problems are at the back and not only because of Shawcross being out either. We don't win first balls, we don't press enough, we are dragged all over the pitch, we are not strong enough in the tackles and let too many strikers hold up the ball to play where ever they choose.
Jack Butland is a fantastic 'keeper but we don't half make him look great at times. He shouldn't even have to save half of what he does.
Back to basics is an understatement but they are things that can be rectified fairly easily.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 11:43:00 GMT
Play Charlie Adam in a deep role because he has a wide range of passes, plus he moves the ball quicker than most of our players. Shaqiri hugs the touch line and Charles can ping it to him in an instant. Or go through them, our best performance this season was Norwich at home personally because it was the only game we really showed a plan B. If you think the Norwich home game was our best performance the season, you've not seen many games. We squeezed past them with a man advantage. If we're honest, you can probably count on the fingers of one hand how many times we've been 'good'. We've been poor more often. And in the majority, bog average. I've missed two games, you're not understanding what I'm saying. We've either been amazing and won or poor and lost. It was nice to see we can actually get 3 points and play fairly average. |
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Post by iplayinthehole on Feb 8, 2016 11:58:23 GMT
Maybe try two strikers at home (centrally positioned) and midfielders with clear roles.
A couple of times yesterday, when in possession in the final third, we had literally no one in the box.
Didn't stop the crowd screaming to cross it to no one though.
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