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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 24, 2016 21:02:27 GMT
I have been asked on a few occasions at the game and elsewhere about where the FSF prices campaign is up to, so here is a brief update. The PL set up an 'attendance working party' to look at these issues and we continue to have dialogue with PL executives about where their work is up to. Significant decisions at the PL are taken by the shareholders meeting, i.e the 20 clubs, and anything which is going into rule requires a 2/3 majority i.e the support of 14 clubs. The main problem is not persuading Richard Scudamore and his executive colleagues but them, and us, persuading at least 14 clubs.
A decision will be taken at their February meeting, or just possibly, delayed until their April meeting. I think we have a chance of getting some, or all, of the following. A cap on away prices - but not as low as £20 - more likely £30 or £35; abolition of match categorisation for away fans; a significant increase in the away fans fund ( currently at £200k per club per season, which Stoke use for the free travel).
We have a good idea of the clubs who are opposed - we have to try to ensure that there aren't more than 6 of them. And of course some clubs will support one thing but not another, have different ideas about, say, the level at which a cap should be set, the size of the away fund etc etc.
We are trying to get the supporters of those clubs who are opposed to put pressure on their own club. If anyone wants to write to Stoke City, it certainly won't do any harm, but in many ways Stoke City are the least of our problems - they have a record of being a leader among clubs in this area.
We would prefer that the away fans fund be used to reduce ticket prices rather than free travel because the former would benefit everyone. However, these issues are inter-linked and I can see why Stoke don't want to do that without some regulation of the ticket price charged by the home club, because it would just mean that clubs who charge high prices continue to get all their income, some of it subsidised by the away fund of the visiting club.
Of course, we may end up getting nothing but I am hopeful that the campaigning work will finally bring some results.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 24, 2016 21:11:09 GMT
Good work
That is my issue with the subsidising of away tickets
Surely £20 plenty means clubs get a full away allocation this in theory creating a better atmosphere in the ground. Thus looking better on TV(their main source of income) meaning better Tv deals all the time
By penny pinching on away tickets which is inconsequential in the grand monetary scheme of things it's a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face.
Some clubs are too fucking greedy to notice.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 24, 2016 21:16:28 GMT
Good work That is my issue with the subsidising of away tickets Surely £20 plenty means clubs get a full away allocation this in theory creating a better atmosphere in the ground. Thus looking better on TV(their main source of income) meaning better Tv deals all the time By penny pinching on away tickets which is inconsequential in the grand monetary scheme of things it's a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face. Some clubs are too fucking greedy to notice. Absolutely right, salop. The PL executives 'get it' on the whole, but persuading club owners, some of whom are based abroad and don't have any real 'feel' for those factors, is not always so easy ( always assuming that you can get anywhere near them ! ) |
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Post by Squeekster on Jan 24, 2016 21:16:32 GMT
Anything that benefits all travelling fans has to be the answer.
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Post by stokemark on Jan 24, 2016 21:17:28 GMT
Let's guess Arsenal are one of them and the majority of clubs objecting are in London ?
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 24, 2016 21:24:44 GMT
Let's guess Arsenal are one of them and the majority of clubs objecting are in London ? To quote Urquart - "you might say that, Mark, I couldn't possibly comment"  |
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Post by maninasuitcase on Jan 24, 2016 21:54:38 GMT
Let's guess Arsenal are one of them and the majority of clubs objecting are in London ? Typical of that scum club. |
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 24, 2016 22:22:54 GMT
The objectors should be named and shamed.
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Post by mattintheprem on Jan 24, 2016 22:27:37 GMT
Be interested to know what all the other clubs currently use their 200K for, I know recently Norwich offered discounted tickets for our game and i'm sure many others have similar offers but you've got to wonder what Arsenal, Man U etc. use theirs for, is it public knowledge?
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Post by greystokie on Jan 24, 2016 22:32:37 GMT
It's amazing how short sighted some clubs can be. In the great scheme of things gate receipts are insignificant in terms of revenue streams. The difference between £20 and what they are actually charging away fans really isn't worth bothering about to clubs awash with money from Sky and other sponsorships. I can't understand why they just don't nod it through and move on to other matters.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 24, 2016 22:35:38 GMT
Be interested to know what all the other clubs currently use their 200K for, I know recently Norwich offered discounted tickets for our game and i'm sure many others have similar offers but you've got to wonder what Arsenal, Man U etc. use theirs for, is it public knowledge? I don't think it's been subject to proper audit and control. And it isn't public knowledge. We suspect that some clubs haven't used it on what it should be used on. If only football clubs were subject to the Freedom of Information Act ! |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 24, 2016 22:36:09 GMT
It's amazing how short sighted some clubs can be. In the great scheme of things gate receipts are insignificant in terms of revenue streams. The difference between £20 and what they are actually charging away fans really isn't worth bothering about to clubs awash with money from Sky and other sponsorships. I can't understand why they just don't nod it through and move on to other matters. Quite ! |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 24, 2016 22:38:44 GMT
The objectors should be named and shamed. Trouble is, it's not in the public domain. We have to rely on leaks and intelligence, some of which might not be fully accurate, which is why I can't just give you a list. |
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Post by lordb on Jan 24, 2016 22:46:56 GMT
The club's should come out and say what they think.
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 24, 2016 22:49:45 GMT
The objectors should be named and shamed. Trouble is, it's not in the public domain. We have to rely on leaks and intelligence, some of which might not be fully accurate, which is why I can't just give you a list. Can't you accidentally leave the list on a back seat of a taxi? |
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Post by salopstick on Jan 25, 2016 0:41:04 GMT
Trouble is, it's not in the public domain. We have to rely on leaks and intelligence, some of which might not be fully accurate, which is why I can't just give you a list. Can't you accidentally leave the list on a back seat of a taxi? or the chairmans roller |
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Post by potterglen on Jan 25, 2016 7:14:59 GMT
Let's guess Arsenal are one of them and the majority of clubs objecting are in London ? We paid around £36 for our Arse away tix, so they aren't the worst culprits. The worst offenders are Chelsea, Manure and Liverpool when it comes to Stoke away, the beneficiaries of £30 will be those above when they play each other and local rivals, I believe Arse v Spurs tickets were over £70. £30 a tickets is of little benefit to Potters supporters. |
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 25, 2016 7:20:00 GMT
The objectors should be named and shamed. Trouble is, it's not in the public domain. We have to rely on leaks and intelligence, some of which might not be fully accurate, which is why I can't just give you a list. Is it possible that the FSF demand open disclosure on the vote? We know people can behave differently in public than behind closed doors. It might be enough to persuade some naysayers to switch sides. |
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Post by potterglen on Jan 25, 2016 7:20:06 GMT
Is there an update on Newcastle/Sunderland seating arrangements for away fans?
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Post by Somebody_Told_Me on Jan 25, 2016 8:24:07 GMT
This may be optimistic..
The 14 pro clubs should put £20 ticket in place, then publicly state which clubs object, away fans then boycot those 6 clubs, until they back down.
It wouldn't take long, trouble is fans aren't very good at boycotting.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 25, 2016 11:24:51 GMT
Trouble is, it's not in the public domain. We have to rely on leaks and intelligence, some of which might not be fully accurate, which is why I can't just give you a list. Is it possible that the FSF demand open disclosure on the vote? We know people can behave differently in public than behind closed doors. It might be enough to persuade some naysayers to switch sides. We could ask, partick, but are not in a position to demand, and I think I know what the answer would be. A better approach might be to encourage the fans of particular clubs to lobby and ask their own clubs, which is effectively what we are doing now by targeting those clubs who we believe to be opposed. The Stoke City supporters club did that and got a clear indication of support on a price cap from our own club  |
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Post by stokiejohnss on Jan 25, 2016 11:41:01 GMT
I've always thought that the bigger clubs ( the suspects - Arsenal Spurs Chelsea Man Utd Liverpool and a few others ) don't want away supporters, or as few as possible .
With prices for our game at Man Utd at £45 it puts most of our fans off , certainly myself and most others I know.
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Post by DelapsWankingArm on Jan 25, 2016 11:45:35 GMT
We've just sold out Leicester at £35 a ticket.
Some folk have no right to moan if you're going to keep paying it.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 25, 2016 12:28:46 GMT
We've just sold out Leicester at £35 a ticket. Some folk have no right to moan if you're going to keep paying it. I don't agree with that personally. It's our game, not theirs, so why should we stop going. I go to every away game because I want to keep supporting my team but I don't think that removes my right to "moan", although I agree that moaning without trying to do something about it doesn't achieve anything. The fact that there is now a real debate among clubs about this, which there wasn't before, shows that we are having some effect. |
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 25, 2016 12:39:24 GMT
Is it possible that the FSF demand open disclosure on the vote? We know people can behave differently in public than behind closed doors. It might be enough to persuade some naysayers to switch sides. We could ask, partick, but are not in a position to demand, and I think I know what the answer would be. A better approach might be to encourage the fans of particular clubs to lobby and ask their own clubs, which is effectively what we are doing now by targeting those clubs who we believe to be opposed. The Stoke City supporters club did that and got a clear indication of support on a price cap from our own club Good suggestion - but I imagine mobilising supporters is a tough thing to do. Another thought - why don't the clubs that agree with 20/20 just implement it among themselves. Sorry if this is just simplistic thinking. I appreciate the realities will be complex. But simple sometimes works a treat! |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 25, 2016 15:40:20 GMT
We could ask, partick, but are not in a position to demand, and I think I know what the answer would be. A better approach might be to encourage the fans of particular clubs to lobby and ask their own clubs, which is effectively what we are doing now by targeting those clubs who we believe to be opposed. The Stoke City supporters club did that and got a clear indication of support on a price cap from our own club Good suggestion - but I imagine mobilising supporters is a tough thing to do. Another thought - why don't the clubs that agree with 20/20 just implement it among themselves. Sorry if this is just simplistic thinking. I appreciate the realities will be complex. But simple sometimes works a treat! Yes it is tough, but some of the clubs involved have very active supporter groups who are used to organising and are up for this. On your 2nd point, I think this will happen (as indeed it has happened this season with £20 reciprocal deals) particularly if there was an increase in the away fund. The problem of course is that some of the worst 'offenders' on prices are among those who don't want any regulation and would be least likely to do voluntary deals. |
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Post by potterglen on Jan 25, 2016 16:17:13 GMT
Is it possible that the FSF demand open disclosure on the vote? We know people can behave differently in public than behind closed doors. It might be enough to persuade some naysayers to switch sides. We could ask, partick, but are not in a position to demand, and I think I know what the answer would be. A better approach might be to encourage the fans of particular clubs to lobby and ask their own clubs, which is effectively what we are doing now by targeting those clubs who we believe to be opposed. The Stoke City supporters club did that and got a clear indication of support on a price cap from our own club Boycott all away fixtures one weekend, pref when we play West Brazil |
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Post by potterglen on Jan 25, 2016 16:19:09 GMT
We could ask, partick, but are not in a position to demand, and I think I know what the answer would be. A better approach might be to encourage the fans of particular clubs to lobby and ask their own clubs, which is effectively what we are doing now by targeting those clubs who we believe to be opposed. The Stoke City supporters club did that and got a clear indication of support on a price cap from our own club Good suggestion - but I imagine mobilising supporters is a tough thing to do. Another thought - why don't the clubs that agree with 20/20 just implement it among themselves. Sorry if this is just simplistic thinking. I appreciate the realities will be complex. But simple sometimes works a treat! That would have to go through the Supporters Council or Anthony Emerson, both are toothless yes men/women. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 25, 2016 16:36:28 GMT
Good suggestion - but I imagine mobilising supporters is a tough thing to do. Another thought - why don't the clubs that agree with 20/20 just implement it among themselves. Sorry if this is just simplistic thinking. I appreciate the realities will be complex. But simple sometimes works a treat! That would have to go through the Supporters Council or Anthony Emerson, both are toothless yes men/women.  I cannot imagine that the SC would do anything other than enthusiastically support it - why wouldn't they ? Anthony is a club employee and a decision on that would be above his pay grade but, in any case, I don't believe he would be anything other than supportive. |
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Post by potterglen on Jan 25, 2016 20:41:03 GMT
That would have to go through the Supporters Council or Anthony Emerson, both are toothless yes men/women. I cannot imagine that the SC would do anything other than enthusiastically support it - why wouldn't they ? Anthony is a club employee and a decision on that would be above his pay grade but, in any case, I don't believe he would be anything other than supportive. Supportive or not, both are toothless and have absolutely no influence on any final outcome. |
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I cannot imagine that the SC would do anything other than enthusiastically support it - why wouldn't they ? Anthony is a club employee and a decision on that would be above his pay grade but, in any case, I don't believe he would be anything other than supportive. 
