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Post by foster on Oct 8, 2015 9:32:16 GMT
Problem with being the England manager is that the team is pretty much picked by the media/press. If you don't pick one of the superstars (regardless of form) then you'll get castrated if you lose a game.
Likewise, it's usually a short term project and one bad tournament could put you out of a job, so why would you want to risk and waste time developing youngsters when they'll only reach their peak 1 or 2 managers later. None of them want to build a foundation as it doesn't benefit them.
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Post by enuntio on Oct 8, 2015 9:36:05 GMT
No they can't, but they have to spot good players. In effect a national coach "buys" any eligible player they he or she :-) thinks will play well with the rest of the team. This along with a good tactical and coaching approach. The thing about Roy is, he won't get caught spanking the secretary and he hasn't had the opportunity to let us down playing against decent opposition yet EDIT (badly phrased, his stats as England manager are still acceptable) Roy on WikiBut he did bring through some good young players at Liverpool and got some of the supposed big money flops of the previous regime performing (before buying some flops of his own). I've just looked at His transfer dealings. It doesn't look good. 3 years and the net spend is at minus £100 million, with no mention of wages. Looking at some of the names and prices paid for them he is best sticking to the play station or monopoly. fans are glad to see the back of him. I'd have given him another 2 years ;-)
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Post by agingerstokie on Oct 8, 2015 9:48:40 GMT
Nice Avatar. Looks like I'm going to have to up my game. Quite a bit of banter we've got going on here.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Oct 8, 2015 9:58:41 GMT
I'm not sure Brendan would be their first choice, although I think he is a decent coach. He can't seem to find a blend between attack and defence. Score 100 goals and concede 50 or tighten up at the back but don't score enough.
I have a feeling it will be an anglophile media darling. So after the Euros next summer, one of Arsene or Jose might be available. The latter would make us boring but competitive.
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Post by mrred on Oct 8, 2015 10:11:02 GMT
Hodgson has killed my interest England. He's a bumbling fucking dullard and he's a fucking liar saying he'll pick in form. Rodgers isn't even that bad of a manager, he's just a bit of a self appreciating tit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 10:13:33 GMT
Hodgson is not a bad manager anyway, no need to replace him. Our problems at international level are down to far more than the manager, he doesn't have a lot to work with at the moment - probably the worst English players to pick from in the last 30 years. We've arguably got the best crop of youngsters comig through since the Golden shower of the new millennium haven't we? As long as anyone but Hodgson is charged with bringing them through, it will do for me. Jack Butland (Stoke City) Joe Hart (Manchester City) Tom Heaton (Burnley) Ryan Bertrand (Southampton) Gary Cahill (Chelsea) Nathaniel Clyne (Liverpool) Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal) Phil Jagielka (Everton) Phil Jones (Manchester United) Chris Smalling (Manchester United) John Stones (Everton) Dele Alli (Tottenham Hotspur) Ross Barkley (Everton) Michael Carrick (Manchester United) Adam Lallana (Liverpool) James Milner (Liverpool) Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Jonjo Shelvey (Swansea City) Raheem Sterling (Manchester City) Danny Ings (Liverpool) Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur) Wayne Rooney (Manchester United) Jamie Vardy (Leicester City) Theo Walcott (Arsenal) I don't see any world class players in that lot (well maybe our Jack but I'm biased), Sterling is the maybe the most promising of the young players and could potentially be world class, maybe Barkley if he manages a full season injury free but he has it all to prove. I think the only two who would have made the team circa 2002-2006 would have been Sterling or Oxlade-Chamberlain and that's because we always lacked someone on the left hand side. Without a doubt the worst English squad of my lifetime, especially the defence.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 8, 2015 10:23:16 GMT
We've arguably got the best crop of youngsters comig through since the Golden shower of the new millennium haven't we? As long as anyone but Hodgson is charged with bringing them through, it will do for me. Jack Butland (Stoke City) Joe Hart (Manchester City) Tom Heaton (Burnley) Ryan Bertrand (Southampton) Gary Cahill (Chelsea) Nathaniel Clyne (Liverpool) Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal) Phil Jagielka (Everton) Phil Jones (Manchester United) Chris Smalling (Manchester United) John Stones (Everton) Dele Alli (Tottenham Hotspur) Ross Barkley (Everton) Michael Carrick (Manchester United) Adam Lallana (Liverpool) James Milner (Liverpool) Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal) Jonjo Shelvey (Swansea City) Raheem Sterling (Manchester City) Danny Ings (Liverpool) Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur) Wayne Rooney (Manchester United) Jamie Vardy (Leicester City) Theo Walcott (Arsenal) I don't see any world class players in that lot (well maybe our Jack but I'm biased), Sterling is the maybe the most promising of the young players and could potentially be world class, maybe Barkley if he manages a full season injury free but he has it all to prove. I think the only two who would have made the team circa 2002-2006 would have been Sterling or Oxlade-Chamberlain and that's because we always lacked someone on the left hand side. Without a doubt the worst English squad of my lifetime, especially the defence. What constitutes your lifetime, if you don't mind me asking mate?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 10:27:03 GMT
What constitutes your lifetime, if you don't mind me asking mate? 31 years.
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Post by salopstick on Oct 8, 2015 10:29:49 GMT
Eddie Howe has nowhere near proved himself for international management. As I said, I cannot think of anyone suitable at this time. Eddie Howe was the first English manager I could think of that has impressed in recent years. A young unproven but fairly decent and regarded manager is the only route the FA have not taken yet. Worked for germany
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 8, 2015 10:37:09 GMT
What constitutes your lifetime, if you don't mind me asking mate? 31 years. Do you think this England team is worse than Graham Taylor's? Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer, Geoff Thomas,etc?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 10:40:52 GMT
Do you think this England team is worse than Graham Taylor's? Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer, Geoff Thomas,etc? Yep, he was a terrible manager for us but we still had some amazing players in the squad like Shearer, Gazza, Tony Adams (and the rest of the Arsenal defence), Platt, Lineker, Merson, Barnes
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 8, 2015 10:56:26 GMT
Do you think this England team is worse than Graham Taylor's? Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer, Geoff Thomas,etc? Is Phil Jagielka better than Curle? Is Milner better than Palmer or Thomas? Not sure they are to be honest. Not saying they were any good at an International level but they were good enough for the top flight, like the majority of the current setup. We have hope though - Hart is world class, Sterling and Sturridge are quality, Smalling l;ooks to have improved massively and hopefully Barkley & Ali can progress. We just need a proper manager.
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Post by iplayinthehole on Oct 8, 2015 11:01:14 GMT
Granted, having a good year is certainly required, but what about the man who turned a bunch of orks in a wind tunnel into a quality carpet football outfit - and not just by buying players?
Surely how some of our own have been developed might look very promising for the National team?
Step forward one Mark Hughes!
- though I would prefer it if he stayed. I personally love his footballing outlook and how he's transformed us.
Won't happen though, thanks to a combination of the press, Stoke's image and the QPR situation
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 11:11:53 GMT
Do you think this England team is worse than Graham Taylor's? Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer, Geoff Thomas,etc? Is Phil Jagielka better than Curle? Is Milner better than Palmer or Thomas? Not sure they are to be honest. Not saying they were any good at an International level but they were good enough for the top flight, like the majority of the current setup. We have hope though - Hart is world class, Sterling and Sturridge are quality, Smalling l;ooks to have improved massively and hopefully Barkley & Ali can progress. We just need a proper manager. shit yes and shit yes in answer to both of your original questions Pugs is Miler better than Carlton Palmer or Geoff Thomas??????? jesus christ man, and you seriously are unsure whether he is...genuinely confused by that one mate
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 8, 2015 11:14:08 GMT
Is Phil Jagielka better than Curle? Is Milner better than Palmer or Thomas? Not sure they are to be honest. Not saying they were any good at an International level but they were good enough for the top flight, like the majority of the current setup. We have hope though - Hart is world class, Sterling and Sturridge are quality, Smalling l;ooks to have improved massively and hopefully Barkley & Ali can progress. We just need a proper manager. shit yes and shit yes in answer to both of your original questions Pugs is Miler better than Carlton Palmer or Geoff Thomas??????? jesus christ man, and you seriously are unsure whether he is...genuinely confused by that one mate Is he really? In what way? To me he's a good runner with average quality on the ball. Very much like those other two.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 11:18:08 GMT
shit yes and shit yes in answer to both of your original questions Pugs is Miler better than Carlton Palmer or Geoff Thomas??????? jesus christ man, and you seriously are unsure whether he is...genuinely confused by that one mate Is he really? In what way? To me he's a good runner with average quality on the ball. Very much like those other two. i think that's massively underrating Milner myself but it's all about opinions i suppose. doesn't help that he's asked to play about 3 different positions every game by domestic and international managers but his work rate, passing ability, ability to break a game up and block players out of the game in midfield make him miles ahead of Palmer and Thomas for me. really don't see why Milner goes so unnoticed by so many people, damn good player IMO
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Post by baystokie on Oct 8, 2015 11:24:59 GMT
Arguably(?), two of Arsenal's most successful managers did not have outstanding management 'track' records - Bertie Mee (ex physiotherapist) and Wenger (not too many of us (even Arsenal) fans had previously clocked him.
What is the overriding skill that the national manager MUST have? - previous management success? ability to define a strategy and then select players to suit that strategy? man-management of various egos, temperaments?
There are some countries where, no matter the manager, success is unlikely. Scotland have had Jock Stein, N. Ireland had MON, (when we had Revie, little changed) - none of whom translated their league achievements into international success - I believe we have only a slighter better pool than other second-level countries.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 11:26:12 GMT
We always alternate English/Foreigner these days as each type gets the blame for our lack of success. Keegan (English) Sven (Swede) McLaren (English with a bit of Dutch!) Fabio (Italian) Hodgson(English) ...foreigner next Not sure what Rogers falls under, because he obviously isn't English but I don't for one second think of him as a "foreigner" either.
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Post by lordb on Oct 8, 2015 11:29:48 GMT
Why not. Can't be or do any worse than any other England manager in recent years. His tactical ineptitude at Liverpool suggests otherwise
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 8, 2015 11:30:04 GMT
Do you think this England team is worse than Graham Taylor's? Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer, Geoff Thomas,etc? Yep, he was a terrible manager for us but we still had some amazing players in the squad like Shearer, Gazza, Tony Adams (and the rest of the Arsenal defence), Platt, Lineker, Merson, Barnes Shearer wasn't the player then that he became though, Gazza was crocked, Lineker retired after the Euros and Barnes only occasionally replicated his club form for England.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 8, 2015 11:30:50 GMT
Do you think this England team is worse than Graham Taylor's? Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer, Geoff Thomas,etc? Is Phil Jagielka better than Curle? Is Milner better than Palmer or Thomas? Not sure they are to be honest. Not saying they were any good at an International level but they were good enough for the top flight, like the majority of the current setup. We have hope though - Hart is world class, Sterling and Sturridge are quality, Smalling l;ooks to have improved massively and hopefully Barkley & Ali can progress. We just need a proper manager. I think Milner is better than either of them Pugs. Jagielka possibly not.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 8, 2015 11:31:02 GMT
Why not. Can't be or do any worse than any other England manager in recent years. His tactical ineptitude at Liverpool suggests otherwise He's been inept at times but shrewd at others.
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Post by lordb on Oct 8, 2015 11:31:29 GMT
Do you think this England team is worse than Graham Taylor's? Keith Curle, Carlton Palmer, Geoff Thomas,etc? Is Phil Jagielka better than Curle? Is Milner better than Palmer or Thomas? Not sure they are to be honest. Not saying they were any good at an International level but they were good enough for the top flight, like the majority of the current setup. We have hope though - Hart is world class, Sterling and Sturridge are quality, Smalling l;ooks to have improved massively and hopefully Barkley & Ali can progress. We just need a proper manager. Yes but who? I don't see a proper manager taking the job
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Post by lordb on Oct 8, 2015 11:32:16 GMT
His tactical ineptitude at Liverpool suggests otherwise He's been inept at times but shrewd at others. You could say the same for MacLaren I'm not sure Rodgers is all that tbh needs to prove himself
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 8, 2015 11:33:46 GMT
He's been inept at times but shrewd at others. You could say the same for MacLaren I'm not sure Rodgers is all that tbh needs to prove himself I'm not sure you could say that about McClaren. I think Rodgers is a miles better manager than him.
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Post by lordb on Oct 8, 2015 11:37:50 GMT
You could say the same for MacLaren I'm not sure Rodgers is all that tbh needs to prove himself I'm not sure you could say that about McClaren. I think Rodgers is a miles better manager than him. Watford & Reading fans may have a differnt point of view. Either way we are splitting hairs Rodgers has had 4 jobs & done well at one of them,with favourable circumstances thanks to wanseas previous managers (going back to Bryan Flynn). If Hughes left & we appointed Rodgers I would be gutted (as I would be if we appointed MacLaren)
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Post by GrahamHyde on Oct 8, 2015 11:37:21 GMT
He would be tortured by the press.
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Post by Davef on Oct 8, 2015 11:48:44 GMT
He would be tortured by the press. And that would make him different from any other England manager how exactly?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 8, 2015 12:00:10 GMT
He would be tortured by the press. And that would make him different from any other England manager how exactly? Woy has got off scot free in that regard for some reason (perhaps because expectations are rock bottom). Brazil 14 was an abomination under any measure and the press barely raised a word in criticism.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 8, 2015 12:11:32 GMT
I'm not sure you could say that about McClaren. I think Rodgers is a miles better manager than him. Watford & Reading fans may have a differnt point of view. Either way we are splitting hairs Rodgers has had 4 jobs & done well at one of them,with favourable circumstances thanks to wanseas previous managers (going back to Bryan Flynn). If Hughes left & we appointed Rodgers I would be gutted (as I would be if we appointed MacLaren) I think that's a very unfair assessment. Was he at Watford long enough to judge either way? 'Favourable circumstances' or otherwise, he still did brilliantly to get Swansea promoted and keep them on without much spend the following season. Plenty of managers inherit better circumstances and fuck it up. Are you really totally writing off the fact that he came closer than any Liverpool manager in a quarter of a century to winning the title?
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