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Post by metalhead on Oct 6, 2015 12:04:17 GMT
Last line of defence. Not sure about Charlie in that position, except perhaps against the Arse. A fridge magnet of that image adorns the white board in front of my desk as I work/type/scive/speak. An Arsenal fan has moved into my office. She hates my fridge magnet. When an Arsenal fan moved into our office, he kept well the fuck out of my way until he left
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Post by skip on Oct 6, 2015 12:27:14 GMT
I've already had a lengthy/tiresome chat about Ramseygate. :/
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 6, 2015 15:57:28 GMT
No he can't.
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 6, 2015 16:01:04 GMT
We don't often agree, but this time you are bang on. He has neither the engine, the positional discipline nor the tackling ability to flourish in the role long term.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 6, 2015 16:04:13 GMT
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Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 6, 2015 16:07:44 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 6, 2015 16:13:52 GMT
We don't often agree, but this time you are bang on. He has neither the engine, the positional discipline nor the tackling ability to flourish in the role long term. It's safe to say we need to sign a central midfielder come January.
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Post by wearestoke80 on Oct 6, 2015 16:15:02 GMT
Adam definitely can't play that role
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Post by stokemanusa on Oct 6, 2015 16:27:44 GMT
Hughes is looking to buy time because MVG hasn't really excelled in the role especially defensively with his poor positional awareness and tackling. Adam had a great first half the other day passing and blowing up their play and that great strike second half but he did get off the pace and nearly let through veretout. I looks like Ryan couldn't get back soon enough so he'd have the option of Starting Adam then bringing on Geoff or MVG or vice versa.
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Post by kustokie on Oct 6, 2015 16:31:25 GMT
I might be in the minority but i like Adam in that role, N'zonzi might be quicker and fitter and a better tackler but there's no denying that 90% of the time he slowed a break down, Adam picks the ball up and releases someone and that's how we'll score goals, Adam is a better passer than anyone else on the team and will find a Stoke player more often than not As long as Whelan is on his game we can afford to have Adam standing there filling space without attempting to make difficult challenges I'm in that minority, too. Me too. I said this after the match on Saturday. I thought Whelan and Adam combined very well. Neither Adam nor N'zonzi were without their faults and I suggest the gap between the two is not as great as some people would have us believe. One thing where Charlie out shines N'zonzi is his attitude, which is first class. I'd be willing to bet that the feisty Scotsman has a much more positive influence on the dressing room that the sulking frog (and his greedy pere).
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Post by kustokie on Oct 6, 2015 16:34:24 GMT
We don't often agree, but this time you are bang on. He has neither the engine, the positional discipline nor the tackling ability to flourish in the role long term. It's safe to say we need to sign a central midfielder come January. If we can find one in our price that is. Do you have anyone in mind. I doubt it was for the lack of trying that we didn't find anyone in the Summer. I suspect there will be even less available in January.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 6, 2015 16:36:45 GMT
It's safe to say we need to sign a central midfielder come January. If we can find one in our price that is. Do you have anyone in mind. I doubt it was for the lack of trying that we didn't find anyone in the Summer. I suspect there will be even less available in January. Not really unless we're really desperate. Then I'd go Jedinak. We fucked this one up massively it seems, especially now he isn't giving Van Ginkel the chance despite him getting better.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 16:38:49 GMT
Horses for courses. Can he play it against the likes of Villa, I'll be honest I was sceptical but he played well and with discipline so yes he can. Can he play it against one of the better teams in the division away from home? I would say not but the shirt is his to lose......
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Post by harryburrows on Oct 6, 2015 16:41:13 GMT
Adam won 2 of his 7 tackles attempted in the past 2 games. He ain't a box to box midfielder. Though I do like Charlie but he ain't a long term solution to that role The manager seems to disagree Charlie was at his best during his Blackpool days where he always played deep , just in front of the back 4
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Post by kustokie on Oct 6, 2015 16:42:41 GMT
If we can find one in our price that is. Do you have anyone in mind. I doubt it was for the lack of trying that we didn't find anyone in the Summer. I suspect there will be even less available in January. Not really unless we're really desperate. Then I'd go Jedinak. We fucked this one up massively it seems, especially now he isn't giving Van Ginkel the chance despite him getting better. Could be Sparky's figured out that's as good as it gets from Van Ginkel and has gone back to the devil he knows. In hindsight (!), he should have tried experimenting with various combinations of Ireland, Adam and (yes you've guessed it) Cameron with Whelan in pre-season in case they couldn't find a replacement. I agree it does appear a bit of a cock up and we all saw it coming. Oh, well have to make do with what's available.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 6, 2015 16:49:51 GMT
Not really unless we're really desperate. Then I'd go Jedinak. We fucked this one up massively it seems, especially now he isn't giving Van Ginkel the chance despite him getting better. Could be Sparky's figured out that's as good as it gets from Van Ginkel and has gone back to the devil he knows. In hindsight (!), he should have tried experimenting with various combinations of Ireland, Adam and (yes you've guessed it) Cameron with Whelan in pre-season in case they couldn't find a replacement. I agree it does appear a bit of a cock up and we all saw it coming. Oh, well have to make do with what's available. Possibly but he was getting better. Cameron as a stop gap would be ok but if that was the plan after losing N'Zonzi (or if it was Adam) then he needs his head testing and I can't believe that it was.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 6, 2015 16:50:41 GMT
The manager seems to disagree Charlie was at his best during his Blackpool days where he always played deep , just in front of the back 4 And they conceded a metric f**kton of goals. And that was with a proper three-man midfield and Vaughan doing the work of two men for him. Jury still out for me at this stage.
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Post by kustokie on Oct 6, 2015 16:54:01 GMT
Could be Sparky's figured out that's as good as it gets from Van Ginkel and has gone back to the devil he knows. In hindsight (!), he should have tried experimenting with various combinations of Ireland, Adam and (yes you've guessed it) Cameron with Whelan in pre-season in case they couldn't find a replacement. I agree it does appear a bit of a cock up and we all saw it coming. Oh, well have to make do with what's available. Possibly but he was getting better. Cameron as a stop gap would be ok but if that was the plan after losing N'Zonzi (or if it was Adam) then he needs his head testing and I can't believe that it was. I agree it's very unlikely that that was Plan A - just doesn't seems to have had Plan B or Plan C. Basic management stuff.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 6, 2015 16:55:11 GMT
Possibly but he was getting better. Cameron as a stop gap would be ok but if that was the plan after losing N'Zonzi (or if it was Adam) then he needs his head testing and I can't believe that it was. I agree it's very unlikely that that was Plan A - just doesn't seems to have had Plan B or Plan C. Basic management stuff. I think plan B but a strong B was Van Ginkel and C was Jedinak.
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Post by harryburrows on Oct 6, 2015 16:59:13 GMT
Charlie was at his best during his Blackpool days where he always played deep , just in front of the back 4 And they conceded a metric f**kton of goals. And that was with a proper three-man midfield and Vaughan doing the work of two men for him. Jury still out for me at this stage. A bit unfair to tar Charlie with that particular brush ,
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 6, 2015 17:26:10 GMT
It's safe to say we need to sign a central midfielder come January. If we can find one in our price that is. Do you have anyone in mind. I doubt it was for the lack of trying that we didn't find anyone in the Summer. I suspect there will be even less available in January. Offer Rubin Kazan the going rate for Yann M'Vila, who's on loan in the madhouse that is Sunderland right now. Get his temperament sorted and it'll be "Steven who?"!
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 6, 2015 17:31:28 GMT
And they conceded a metric f**kton of goals. And that was with a proper three-man midfield and Vaughan doing the work of two men for him. Jury still out for me at this stage. A bit unfair to tar Charlie with that particular brush , Can you elaborate?
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 6, 2015 17:37:12 GMT
Of course Charles can play the role, after all it IS the easiest position on the pitch to play.
Is he the long term answer - no.
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Post by harryburrows on Oct 6, 2015 17:37:04 GMT
A bit unfair to tar Charlie with that particular brush , Can you elaborate? The point folks were making about whether or not Charlie is a box to box midfielder or not , he always plays better sitting deeper IMO . That doesn't mean he's a essien or mascherano because we all know that's never been part of his game
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 6, 2015 17:41:39 GMT
The point folks were making about whether or not Charlie is a box to box midfielder or not , he always plays better sitting deeper IMO . That doesn't mean he's a essien or mascherano because we all know that's never been part of his game I feel like the fact that he does actually drive forward from there is one of the better qualities he brings to that role. But the discipline issue is something he still has a lot of proving to do, both positionally and in terms of his penchant for GBH.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 6, 2015 17:44:53 GMT
Of course Charles can play the role, after all it IS the easiest position on the pitch to play. Is he the long term answer - no. It is?
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Post by harryburrows on Oct 6, 2015 17:48:02 GMT
The point folks were making about whether or not Charlie is a box to box midfielder or not , he always plays better sitting deeper IMO . That doesn't mean he's a essien or mascherano because we all know that's never been part of his game I feel like the fact that he does actually drive forward from there is one of the better qualities he brings to that role. But the discipline issue is something he still has a lot of proving to do, both positionally and in terms of his penchant for GBH. That's part of my point as well . He doesn't have the discipline of a true defensive midfielder and he does give the ball away in dangerous areas . Pulis always struggled to find a spot for him as well although playing him on the right wing was a bit silly
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Post by Titan Uranus on Oct 6, 2015 20:17:12 GMT
Return for the Jedi
in January
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 6, 2015 20:17:28 GMT
It's safe to say we need to sign a central midfielder come January. If we can find one in our price that is. Do you have anyone in mind. I doubt it was for the lack of trying that we didn't find anyone in the Summer. I suspect there will be even less available in January. Thing is Mark Hughes DID get the player he WANTED to replace N'Zonzi - Marco Van Ginkel. Don't forget he's had a hard on for him for ages and tried to sign him before he went to Chelsea. Do you think that if Hughes had identified a replacement for N'Zonzi that was going to cost (say) £15 million, then Coates wouldn't have sanctioned it? Of course he would but Hughes got the man that HE wanted. I find his comments today quite worrying, is he suggesting that Adam is now a better replacement than Van Ginkel?
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Post by jezzascfc on Oct 6, 2015 20:29:57 GMT
Maybe MvG looked better from afar - now Hughes sees him up close in his team, he is not so keen? Adam has been chosen ahead of a fully fit MvG in the past two games, so right now, yes, he does prefer Adam in that role.
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