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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 5, 2015 16:14:10 GMT
That is now 2 goals in 2 games caused by Johnson on the overlap from right-back. This is a clear tactic to make a free player on the right by doing this:
> RW is drifting into the middle as a 2nd striker (Shaqiri did this as Diouf was doing on Saturday)
> Johnson drifts forward to pick up position
> Cameron slides over to cover RB position (Pieters covers so we have effectively 3 centre-halves)
Its a pretty simple tactic but shows the importance of having a good quality full-back in the modern game. Barcelona's tiki-taka was actually based upon overloading one flank to make a spare man to cross into (usually Dani Alves from RB)
It is clear now why Hughes signed Johnson, but also why on the right-wing he likes to play winger/2nd striker to drift into the middle. Shaqiri has been taking 2 defenders with him into the center and leaving a huge gap for the overlap on the right.
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Post by StoKeith on Oct 5, 2015 16:17:08 GMT
Shhhhhhhh... don't tell everyone!  |
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Post by PotterLog on Oct 5, 2015 16:19:51 GMT
dick tingle > arsehole twitch > dick tingle > arsehole twitch > dick tingle > arsehole twitch > dick tingle > arsehole twitch > dick tingle > arsehole twitch > dick tingle > arsehole twitch > dick tingle > arsehole twitch > dick tingle > arsehole twitch > dick tingle > arsehole twitch > dick tingle > arsehole twitch > dick tingle > arsehole twitch > dick tingle > arsehole twitch
(my experience of watching Glen Johnson for us so far)
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Post by enuntio on Oct 5, 2015 16:27:19 GMT
I know it's early days but GJ seems to be a superb acquisition
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 5, 2015 16:44:28 GMT
It's good going forward and Cameron is doing a good job moving across. It does leave us more exposed though and we'll see over the season whether or not that's an acceptable trade-off.
Personally I'm not sure it is, sure others disagree.
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Post by reddipotter on Oct 5, 2015 16:50:44 GMT
Johnson is good at getting forward and therefore exploiting any space in front of him. Even more important is that a wide player moves inside. So many times this season we have attacked only to struggle because there is only one player in the penalty area. I hope you are right that this is being addressed.
Johnson still worries me defensively though!
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Post by Pugsley on Oct 5, 2015 16:50:23 GMT
Yep, seen Madrid do the same. Key is to move the ball across the pitch quickly to your spare man. It requires a bit of patience as there can be a lot of sideways passing to get your man free but no doubt it can work.
We put together some great moves on Saturday, Marko's disallowed goal and the quick decisive passing between Marko (maybe Charlie), Bojan and Walters created a great chance for Mame early doors. It's great to watch when it comes off.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 5, 2015 16:55:46 GMT
We had problems last year breaking down teams that defend the edge of the box well. We need other ways to make space and create opportunities on a regular basis so this is a good option.
Once we are ahead in the game then Johnson needs to stay back more, but when we need to create a goal this is high risk high reward tactic
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Post by kustokie on Oct 5, 2015 17:04:58 GMT
It's good going forward and Cameron is doing a good job moving across. It does leave us more exposed though and we'll see over the season whether or not that's an acceptable trade-off. Personally I'm not sure it is, sure others disagree. Creates an excuse for Bayern to have a s...fit and everyone to pile on in GCam's defense when it results in a goal. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 5, 2015 17:18:59 GMT
Well just taking Geoff out of the equation for a second...
Assuming Ryan plays there when he comes back, might it be asking an awful lot of him mobility wise after the longest injury break of his career to put in all those hard yards moving across to cover?
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Oct 5, 2015 18:24:25 GMT
Well just taking Geoff out of the equation for a second... Assuming Ryan plays there when he comes back, might it be asking an awful lot of him mobility wise after the longest injury break of his career to put in all those hard yards moving across to cover? assuming Ryan does come back 100% fit I think he'll be fine. When Cameron played as right back many would chastise him for going too far up the pitch and needing Ryan to cover for him, thing was Ryan always did an excellent job. I don't know who is faster Geoff or Ryan, but I believe both are fairly quick for how big they are. Ryan is better at containing players until help arrives. Geoff tends to try to nick the ball more, which is great when he wins it but catastrophic when he stabs and misses. I am very curious to see who will be partnered with Ryan when he returns. Right now I think it would be Geoff because he has started every league game in the centre of defence, but both he and Ryan are best on the right, so if I were picking the team it'd be Wilson or muniesa next to Ryan. |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Oct 5, 2015 18:38:32 GMT
Johnson could have bagged a couple himself too. I've been massively impressed with him so far, he had a couple of 'moments' of defensive laxity against Bournemouth {but he'd missed the previous game and he was carrying a couple of knocks I think, foot and hand bandaged}. On the whole I think he's shown sufficient awareness and athleticism to recover or stifle their attacks. It hasn't left us as vulnerable as when Bardsley has adopted a high defensive position. On the heat map thing for the Villa game Johnson's 'average' position was on the half way line, the other defenders didn't look to have been pulled across too much from their hotspots. Walters' 'average' position was also very close to Johnson which suggests he did offer quite a bit of defensive cover too, and obviously his work off the ball opens up space for Glen. {Only 'averages' so not conclusive}. I reckon Johnson's quality on the ball and eye for a pass nullifies the opposition as effectively as sitting deeper and being ran at. As has been noted Cameron, but also Whelan are key at the moment in filling in the vacuum. I think on balance it has and will be worth the added risk. As ChiefD points out it'll be interesting to see how it works with a recouperating Ryan, I have no doubt if he reaches full fitness he'll take it in his stride{s}. Thankfully it's only one of a number of attacking dimensions, it's not particularly a default mode because down the left and through the middle are equally saucy options. An absolute coup of a signing in my view which got a little lost in the summer deluge of new players {and the Shaq bruhaha.} I was initially quite dubious about the signing but I think a lot of that was based on my cliched views of him defensively, I've been impressed perhaps as much because I thought he'd be weaker than he's turned out to be so far. Looks like he's settling well and I've seen no edge or ego that would suggest he'd sacrifice the good of the team to suit his wonts. We missed him against Arsenal, a massive factor in us offering little threat down the right. I liked Geoff as right back but seeing Johnson undertake those duties has been a revelation in terms of the amount and quality of dangerous deliveries, 5 or 6 a game rather than a season. It's early days, Cameron could step up again as the more 'defensive' option if Johnson becomes leaky, or for games where we might need to 'sit deeper'. The 3-5-2 isn't too far off the radar and could be a way of bringing Ryan back into the fold for a couple of games. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 18:57:00 GMT
It only works if Johnsons final delivery is a good one.
If he gets up the pitch and loses the ball we are dreadfully exposed down his side with acres of room for the opposition winger to run into.
That's the chance you take I suppose
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Post by whydelilah on Oct 5, 2015 19:06:50 GMT
It's good going forward and Cameron is doing a good job moving across. It does leave us more exposed though and we'll see over the season whether or not that's an acceptable trade-off. Personally I'm not sure it is, sure others disagree. It will be an acceptable trade off of he keeps creating in the final third. If he's going to be "iffy" defensively and going AWOL throughout the game, he has to deliver going forward. The last 2 games he's helped to make difference. The few games before that, not so much. It's a fine line. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 5, 2015 19:19:22 GMT
Johnson could have bagged a couple himself too. I've been massively impressed with him so far, he had a couple of 'moments' of defensive laxity against Bournemouth {but he'd missed the previous game and he was carrying a couple of knocks I think, foot and hand bandaged}. On the whole I think he's shown sufficient awareness and athleticism to recover or stifle their attacks. It hasn't left us as vulnerable as when Bardsley has adopted a high defensive position. On the heat map thing for the Villa game Johnson's 'average' position was on the half way line, the other defenders didn't look to have been pulled across too much from their hotspots. Walters' 'average' position was also very close to Johnson which suggests he did offer quite a bit of defensive cover too, and obviously his work off the ball opens up space for Glen. {Only 'averages' so not conclusive}. I reckon Johnson's quality on the ball and eye for a pass nullifies the opposition as effectively as sitting deeper and being ran at. As has been noted Cameron, but also Whelan are key at the moment in filling in the vacuum. I think on balance it has and will be worth the added risk. As ChiefD points out it'll be interesting to see how it works with a recouperating Ryan, I have no doubt if he reaches full fitness he'll take it in his stride{s}. Thankfully it's only one of a number of attacking dimensions, it's not particularly a default mode because down the left and through the middle are equally saucy options. An absolute coup of a signing in my view which got a little lost in the summer deluge of new players {and the Shaq bruhaha.} I was initially quite dubious about the signing but I think a lot of that was based on my cliched views of him defensively, I've been impressed perhaps as much because I thought he'd be weaker than he's turned out to be so far. Looks like he's settling well and I've seen no edge or ego that would suggest he'd sacrifice the good of the team to suit his wonts. We missed him against Arsenal, a massive factor in us offering little threat down the right. I liked Geoff as right back but seeing Johnson undertake those duties has been a revelation in terms of the amount and quality of dangerous deliveries, 5 or 6 a game rather than a season. It's early days, Cameron could step up again as the more 'defensive' option if Johnson becomes leaky, or for games where we might need to 'sit deeper'. The 3-5-2 isn't too far off the radar and could be a way of bringing Ryan back into the fold for a couple of games. It's a fucking mile off the radar cheesy and rightly so! ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 19:20:43 GMT
I slated his signing - he looks decent with the ball in the opponents half though and - has done ok for us so far
im still absolutely convinced though - for his entire career ( and no different for us)
he cant defend his own dinner,
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Post by nonameface on Oct 5, 2015 19:23:14 GMT
Just need a better left full back for the same reason, although finding that person is a lot harder than it is to say it.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 5, 2015 19:31:50 GMT
Just need a better left full back for the same reason, although finding that person is a lot harder than it is to say it. Really? Pieters isn't perfect but I'd feel a lot better if we had another Pieters at right back than another Johnson at left back. |
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Post by Olgrligm on Oct 5, 2015 19:39:35 GMT
Hmm. I'm not convinced by him yet and seriously don't think that he's earned rave reviews. I'll keep a close eye on him in the Swansea and Watford games.
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Post by prem4stoke on Oct 5, 2015 20:33:16 GMT
Johnson could have bagged a couple himself too. I've been massively impressed with him so far, he had a couple of 'moments' of defensive laxity against Bournemouth {but he'd missed the previous game and he was carrying a couple of knocks I think, foot and hand bandaged}. On the whole I think he's shown sufficient awareness and athleticism to recover or stifle their attacks. It hasn't left us as vulnerable as when Bardsley has adopted a high defensive position. On the heat map thing for the Villa game Johnson's 'average' position was on the half way line, the other defenders didn't look to have been pulled across too much from their hotspots. Walters' 'average' position was also very close to Johnson which suggests he did offer quite a bit of defensive cover too, and obviously his work off the ball opens up space for Glen. {Only 'averages' so not conclusive}. I reckon Johnson's quality on the ball and eye for a pass nullifies the opposition as effectively as sitting deeper and being ran at. As has been noted Cameron, but also Whelan are key at the moment in filling in the vacuum. I think on balance it has and will be worth the added risk. As ChiefD points out it'll be interesting to see how it works with a recouperating Ryan, I have no doubt if he reaches full fitness he'll take it in his stride{s}. Thankfully it's only one of a number of attacking dimensions, it's not particularly a default mode because down the left and through the middle are equally saucy options. An absolute coup of a signing in my view which got a little lost in the summer deluge of new players {and the Shaq bruhaha.} I was initially quite dubious about the signing but I think a lot of that was based on my cliched views of him defensively, I've been impressed perhaps as much because I thought he'd be weaker than he's turned out to be so far. Looks like he's settling well and I've seen no edge or ego that would suggest he'd sacrifice the good of the team to suit his wonts. We missed him against Arsenal, a massive factor in us offering little threat down the right. I liked Geoff as right back but seeing Johnson undertake those duties has been a revelation in terms of the amount and quality of dangerous deliveries, 5 or 6 a game rather than a season. It's early days, Cameron could step up again as the more 'defensive' option if Johnson becomes leaky, or for games where we might need to 'sit deeper'. The 3-5-2 isn't too far off the radar and could be a way of bringing Ryan back into the fold for a couple of games. It's a fucking mile off the radar cheesy and rightly so! ;D It is already 3-5-2 when we are attacking that is the clever part we are altering formation during the game |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 5, 2015 20:41:32 GMT
I'm not sure how clever it is.
I'd be astonished if Hughes ever makes that his regular starting formation. Just not going to happen.
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Post by stokefaninde on Oct 5, 2015 20:57:18 GMT
I like it tactically when he is paired with Walters because he offers support. His moving too far forward with Shaqiri frightens me.
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Post by prem4stoke on Oct 5, 2015 22:22:05 GMT
I'm not sure how clever it is. I'd be astonished if Hughes ever makes that his regular starting formation. Just not going to happen. Why does it need to be his starting formation he's managed to implement it during the game so its a win win for me. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 5, 2015 22:25:55 GMT
I'm not sure how clever it is. I'd be astonished if Hughes ever makes that his regular starting formation. Just not going to happen. Why does it need to be his starting formation he's managed to implement it during the game so its a win win for me. I don't know how viable it's going to turn out to be long term. |
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Post by prem4stoke on Oct 5, 2015 22:43:45 GMT
Why does it need to be his starting formation he's managed to implement it during the game so its a win win for me. I don't know how viable it's going to turn out to be long term. Well that's why he gets paid lots of money to realise when to change it but for me he's done the right thing at the right time. Football has no one way to play the game, to adapt is a key attribute it's that what I like about Hughes. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 5, 2015 22:46:39 GMT
I don't know how viable it's going to turn out to be long term. Well that's why he gets paid lots of money to realise when to change it but for me he's done the right thing at the right time. Football has no one way to play the game, to adapt is a key attribute it's that what I like about Hughes. I don't disagree with that. I'm just really, really not a fan of three at the back. I don't think it works in English football. |
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Post by kustokie on Oct 6, 2015 1:11:42 GMT
Well that's why he gets paid lots of money to realise when to change it but for me he's done the right thing at the right time. Football has no one way to play the game, to adapt is a key attribute it's that what I like about Hughes. I don't disagree with that. I'm just really, really not a fan of three at the back. I don't think it works in English football. Definitely didn't work for Villa. |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 6, 2015 8:30:04 GMT
Once Shawcross we only need 2 at the back hes that bloody good.
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Post by clarkeda on Oct 6, 2015 8:44:13 GMT
I don't disagree with that. I'm just really, really not a fan of three at the back. I don't think it works in English football. Definitely didn't work for Villa. Was just about to say the same. |
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 6, 2015 8:54:40 GMT
With a defender like Johnsy the obvious task is to strike the balance between his attacking possibility and defensive responsibilities. Much of the time it's fine but sometimes it goes a bit bad.
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