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Post by salopstick on Oct 3, 2015 21:02:03 GMT
Another political heavy weight gone
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Post by Okie Stokie. on Oct 3, 2015 21:03:31 GMT
R.I.P.
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Post by derrida1437 on Oct 3, 2015 21:06:11 GMT
A decent man, principled man, who didn't leave Labour when others went off and formed the SDP when things got a bit wonky under Michael Foot.
Yep, another one gone.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 21:08:19 GMT
R.I.P.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 21:12:19 GMT
R.I.P
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Post by sydneypotter on Oct 3, 2015 21:14:50 GMT
RIP Healey.
Wasn't he a football ref in days gone by?
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Post by ukcstokie on Oct 3, 2015 21:20:05 GMT
Went to a National Trust property this morning.
Was looking through their second hand book shop, and spotted Dennis's autobiography. Was going to buy it but didn't in the end. Got home to find out the sad news.
RIP.
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Post by mermaidsal on Oct 3, 2015 21:28:45 GMT
RIP Healey. Wasn't he a football ref in days gone by? Think that was Denis Howell, appointed Minister for Drought in 1976 and 2 days after they appointed him it started to rain  As for Dennis Healey, RIP to a principled strong and witty man, last of his generation gone. He made a really wise cool old man too whenever I saw an interview. Wonder if they'll bury his eyebrows with him or alongside? xx |
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Post by lastoftheldk on Oct 3, 2015 22:35:09 GMT
Great politician
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Post by pearo on Oct 3, 2015 22:50:30 GMT
Possibly the best eyebrows ever, R.I.P.
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Post by harryburrows on Oct 3, 2015 23:13:28 GMT
Last competent labour chancellor ,RIP
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Post by dutchpeter72 on Oct 4, 2015 0:22:46 GMT
Dennis healey, in the mid 70s as chancellor he accepted the IMF loan to save the British economiy. Many folk don't know that the Callaghan government introduced monetarim, before Margaret Thatcher did. It was a decision that was political gold to the tories, and provided the bed rock for the economic recovery of the 1980s.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 1:08:01 GMT
Last survivor of the Wilson Cabinet...RIP Dennis, a man of principals and a thoroughly decent sort.
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 4, 2015 9:19:55 GMT
Dennis healey, in the mid 70s as chancellor he accepted the IMF loan to save the British economiy. Many folk don't know that the Callaghan government introduced monetarim, before Margaret Thatcher did. It was a decision that was political gold to the tories, and provided the bed rock for the economic recovery of the 1980s. This is such an important point - there was a seismic shift in political thinking in the 70s (that continues to the present day) that most folk assume was the Thatcher Government. Actually, the shift came in 1976 with Healey as chancellor. Basically the No.1 priority moved from targeting full employment to controlling inflation. The idea being that prospects for employment can only be maximised if inflation is controlled. The economic tool to do that was monetarism. Of course there are different ways to implement monetarism - and Thatcher's first attempt was disastrous (the Lady's not for turning silliness). But, since then, the basic idea established by Healey has been the cornerstone of economic thinking for the past 40 years. |
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Post by dutchpeter72 on Oct 4, 2015 9:42:49 GMT
Dennis healey, in the mid 70s as chancellor he accepted the IMF loan to save the British economiy. Many folk don't know that the Callaghan government introduced monetarim, before Margaret Thatcher did. It was a decision that was political gold to the tories, and provided the bed rock for the economic recovery of the 1980s. This is such an important point - there was a seismic shift in political thinking in the 70s (that continues to the present day) that most folk assume was the Thatcher Government. Actually, the shift came in 1976 with Healey as chancellor. Basically the No.1 priority moved from targeting full employment to controlling inflation. The idea being that prospects for employment can only be maximised if inflation is controlled. The economic tool to do that was monetarism. Of course there are different ways to implement monetarism - and Thatcher's first attempt was disastrous (the Lady's not for turning silliness). But, since then, the basic idea established by Healey has been the cornerstone of economic thinking for the past 40 years. The Callaghan Government will be treated more kindly by history I suspect ( winter of discontent not included). I think views of that era are forged by the Daily Express/Mail retelling of history. |
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 4, 2015 10:09:14 GMT
This is such an important point - there was a seismic shift in political thinking in the 70s (that continues to the present day) that most folk assume was the Thatcher Government. Actually, the shift came in 1976 with Healey as chancellor. Basically the No.1 priority moved from targeting full employment to controlling inflation. The idea being that prospects for employment can only be maximised if inflation is controlled. The economic tool to do that was monetarism. Of course there are different ways to implement monetarism - and Thatcher's first attempt was disastrous (the Lady's not for turning silliness). But, since then, the basic idea established by Healey has been the cornerstone of economic thinking for the past 40 years. The Callaghan Government will be treated more kindly by history I suspect ( winter of discontent not included). I think views of that era are forged by the Daily Express/Mail retelling of history. I agree - the Callaghan Government will be looked on more sympathetically. The same won't apply to the unions at that time. Their conduct was appalling. |
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 5, 2015 8:15:32 GMT
Dennis healey, in the mid 70s as chancellor he accepted the IMF loan to save the British economiy. Many folk don't know that the Callaghan government introduced monetarim, before Margaret Thatcher did. It was a decision that was political gold to the tories, and provided the bed rock for the economic recovery of the 1980s. This is such an important point - there was a seismic shift in political thinking in the 70s (that continues to the present day) that most folk assume was the Thatcher Government. Actually, the shift came in 1976 with Healey as chancellor. Basically the No.1 priority moved from targeting full employment to controlling inflation. The idea being that prospects for employment can only be maximised if inflation is controlled. The economic tool to do that was monetarism. Of course there are different ways to implement monetarism - and Thatcher's first attempt was disastrous (the Lady's not for turning silliness). But, since then, the basic idea established by Healey has been the cornerstone of economic thinking for the past 40 years. "Basically, the No.1 priority moved from targeting full employment to controlling inflation." Strange that! Somebody should tell the current Governor of the Bank of England that! He's said he's targeting growth not inflation as you can't control imported inflation e.g. oil prices and interest rates shouldn't be used to target house inflation as that's caused by building too few houses! |
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 5, 2015 12:53:32 GMT
This is such an important point - there was a seismic shift in political thinking in the 70s (that continues to the present day) that most folk assume was the Thatcher Government. Actually, the shift came in 1976 with Healey as chancellor. Basically the No.1 priority moved from targeting full employment to controlling inflation. The idea being that prospects for employment can only be maximised if inflation is controlled. The economic tool to do that was monetarism. Of course there are different ways to implement monetarism - and Thatcher's first attempt was disastrous (the Lady's not for turning silliness). But, since then, the basic idea established by Healey has been the cornerstone of economic thinking for the past 40 years. "Basically, the No.1 priority moved from targeting full employment to controlling inflation." Strange that! Somebody should tell the current Governor of the Bank of England that! He's said he's targeting growth not inflation as you can't control imported inflation e.g. oil prices and interest rates shouldn't be used to target house inflation as that's caused by building too few houses! Folk say lots of things - that get used (and abused) in many ways. What's clear (because it's on their website) is the Bank of England's statutory role; Seems fairly clear. Remember, also this specific BoE role was established by Blair's first Labour Government and continued by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition and the current Government. The point is, in respect to the late Dennis Healey, he was the man who got the ball rolling on this fundamental plank of economic thought. Something worth acknowledging on the occassion of his death. Certainly more significant, in the long term, than his short lived dalliance with the IMF (although that certainly scuppered him in the short term). |
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 6, 2015 6:18:52 GMT
"Basically, the No.1 priority moved from targeting full employment to controlling inflation." Strange that! Somebody should tell the current Governor of the Bank of England that! He's said he's targeting growth not inflation as you can't control imported inflation e.g. oil prices and interest rates shouldn't be used to target house inflation as that's caused by building too few houses! Folk say lots of things - that get used (and abused) in many ways. What's clear (because it's on their website) is the Bank of England's statutory role; Seems fairly clear. Remember, also this specific BoE role was established by Blair's first Labour Government and continued by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition and the current Government. The point is, in respect to the late Dennis Healey, he was the man who got the ball rolling on this fundamental plank of economic thought. Something worth acknowledging on the occassion of his death. Certainly more significant, in the long term, than his short lived dalliance with the IMF (although that certainly scuppered him in the short term). Nobody "used and abused" the Governor's words on house inflation! He made it unequivocally clear that housing inflation is being caused by lack of supply! The lowest house building figures since the 1920s when public sector houses were built to fulfil Lloyd George's promise of "homes for heroes". Nobody disputes that very high inflation damages growth and jobs but as we have 0% inflation the BoE isn't even hitting it's own inflation target, it is undershooting it by a wide margin! As for price stability, the BoE has printed unbelievable quantities of money.To set them up for as a standard of long term price stability is laughable. Indeed, arch monetarists have warned of hyper-inflation in the future! The I.M.F. imposed cuts on public expenditure but the debt/GDP had been worse by the under-estimated growth in G.D.P.. At the time, it was estimated at 0% but subsequently revised upwards to 1%. Denis Healey often quoted how he was asked to collect statistics in the war at a railway station! Being bored, he thought I won't bother as I'll use the other blokes figures standing on the other platform. He found out the other chap hadn't collected any data so they made the figures up! So, Denis Healey always thought the pre-I.M.F. crisis was a storm in a teacup as the official statistics gave a misleading picture of the economy! |
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 6, 2015 7:19:49 GMT
Folk say lots of things - that get used (and abused) in many ways. What's clear (because it's on their website) is the Bank of England's statutory role; Seems fairly clear. Remember, also this specific BoE role was established by Blair's first Labour Government and continued by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition and the current Government. The point is, in respect to the late Dennis Healey, he was the man who got the ball rolling on this fundamental plank of economic thought. Something worth acknowledging on the occassion of his death. Certainly more significant, in the long term, than his short lived dalliance with the IMF (although that certainly scuppered him in the short term). Nobody "used and abused" the Governor's words on house inflation! He made it unequivocally clear that housing inflation is being caused by lack of supply! The lowest house building figures since the 1920s when public sector houses were built to fulfil Lloyd George's promise of "homes for heroes". Nobody disputes that very high inflation damages growth and jobs but as we have 0% inflation the BoE isn't even hitting it's own inflation target, it is undershooting it by a wide margin! As for price stability, the BoE has printed unbelievable quantities of money.To set them up for as a standard of long term price stability is laughable. Indeed, arch monetarists have warned of hyper-inflation in the future! The I.M.F. imposed cuts on public expenditure but the debt/GDP had been worse by the under-estimated growth in G.D.P.. At the time, it was estimated at 0% but subsequently revised upwards to 1%. Denis Healey often quoted how he was asked to collect statistics in the war at a railway station! Being bored, he thought I won't bother as I'll use the other blokes figures standing on the other platform. He found out the other chap hadn't collected any data so they made the figures up! So, Denis Healey always thought the pre-I.M.F. crisis was a storm in a teacup as the official statistics gave a misleading picture of the economy! Don't disagree with most (if any) of that. Particularly on stats - memorably captured in that description of Thatcher's M2 fixated implementation of monetarism "the undefinable in pursuit of the unachievable". I think you're missing my point though. It isn't one of performance - how well they are doing. It's about remit - what they are charged with doing. This is the critical line; You could look at that another way - they cannot pursue growth at the expense of inflation. Which was sort of the situation pre 1976 but read full employment instead of growth for the prime policy objective at that time. This is the paradigm shift Healy started. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 7:44:26 GMT
RIP you silly billy
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Post by Skankmonkey on Oct 6, 2015 10:42:04 GMT
All good stuff there partick and nicholasjalcock. A good read. Thanks both!
Indeed, it was Healey for the Labour goverment that moved monetary policy to the fore in 76 and began the process of opening up the economy.
Effectively the British economy was in transition from the ending of the Bretton Woods exchange rate system. The consequent ER instability, massive oil price rise shocks to the international economy and Anthony Barber's spectacularly foolish "dash for growth" policy in 73 combined to deal a death blow to the closed economy demand management paradigm and the primacy of the full employment target.
Partick has correctly mentioned the role of the unions in this turbulent period. Just for balance I'd also like to point a finger at management and their less than dynamic practices; hidebound and struggling/unwilling to move on from the cosy days of Empire and the captive markets of imperial preference.
North Sea oil was something of a lifebelt for Britain and from the mid 70's there was a tacit general assumption by most that we just needed to keep things in one piece until that and the consequent revenue came fully on line. A period of measured economic renewal could then begin. Margaret had other ideas. The British economy was on crutches in 1979 limping over the line. Thatcher kicked the crutches away.
The first period of "sado-monetarism" was economically a disaster for this country. It still makes me ill to recall and bloody angry too. It was a purely political decision to effect that degree of cathartic change and made no economic sense whatsover. Nuff said. Grrr.
After that was abandoned inflation became the target and remains so. Keynes has the best quote about the damaging and iniquitous effects of inflation but I can't for the life of me remember it just now.
Nicholasjalcocks point about the failure of the BOE to get inflation up from below the target rate is a good one and is one of the reasons I am not entirely as hostile to Corbynomics as many on here. KEEP READING! There are the usual numerous sneaky economist conditions and caveats involved in that so don't take it as a general endorsement! I'll explain another day maybe...
Other interesting related topics include:-
How the rest of the world ended up paying for US involvement in Vietnam! Starring Bretton Woods, the dollar as worlds reserve currency and exported inflation. A must see topic!
I can't be arsed just now. Thanks again for the read lads.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2015 11:01:42 GMT
All good stuff there partick and nicholasjalcock. A good read. Thanks both! Indeed, it was Healey for the Labour goverment that moved monetary policy to the fore in 76 and began the process of opening up the economy. Effectively the British economy was in transition from the ending of the Bretton Woods exchange rate system. The consequent ER instability, massive oil price rise shocks to the international economy and Anthony Barber's spectacularly foolish "dash for growth" policy in 73 combined to deal a death blow to the closed economy demand management paradigm and the primacy of the full employment target. Partick has correctly mentioned the role of the unions in this turbulent period. Just for balance I'd also like to point a finger at management and their less than dynamic practices; hidebound and struggling/unwilling to move on from the cosy days of Empire and the captive markets of imperial preference. North Sea oil was something of a lifebelt for Britain and from the mid 70's there was a tacit general assumption by most that we just needed to keep things in one piece until that and the consequent revenue came fully on line. A period of measured economic renewal could then begin. Margaret had other ideas. The British economy was on crutches in 1979 limping over the line. Thatcher kicked the crutches away. The first period of "sado-monetarism" was economically a disaster for this country. It still makes me ill to recall and bloody angry too. It was a purely political decision to effect that degree of cathartic change and made no economic sense whatsover. Nuff said. Grrr. After that was abandoned inflation became the target and remains so. Keynes has the best quote about the damaging and iniquitous effects of inflation but I can't for the life of me remember it just now. Nicholasjalcocks point about the failure of the BOE to get inflation up from below the target rate is a good one and is one of the reasons I am not entirely as hostile to Corbynomics as many on here. KEEP READING! There are the usual numerous sneaky economist conditions and caveats involved in that so don't take it as a general endorsement! I'll explain another day maybe... Other interesting related topics include:- How the rest of the world ended up paying for US involvement in Vietnam! Starring Bretton Woods, the dollar as worlds reserve currency and exported inflation. A must see topic! I can't be arsed just now. Thanks again for the read lads.  |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 7, 2015 21:33:16 GMT
I really enjoyed the documentary about Healey on BBC 2 , tonight. He seemed to be a really decent bloke(for a politician!).
I urge anyone thinking of voting for Jeremy Corbyn to watch this programme. Healey was fighting against people like him 40 years ago.
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Post by Northy on Oct 8, 2015 7:34:27 GMT
RIP, a heavyweight from my youth that I saw on the TV a lot, but in my teens wasn't too much into politics back then.
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Post by tomkinson67 on Oct 8, 2015 19:19:59 GMT
He was a beach master on D-Day.
And awarded an MBE in 1945.
RIP to a war hero and a great politician.
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