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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 7, 2015 15:27:58 GMT
Fuck's sake I wasn't a hooligan mate - read the post - it says "SHE". Unless some youth lobbing a bin through my mum's car window makes me a violent lunatic now? Your mum? simply brilliant I cant stop laughing at that. Was it Dad throwing the bin through the window?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 15:58:18 GMT
What I've never seen, ever,is two sets of fans/firms going 'toe to toe'. 25 badly dressed youths chasing/beating up 3 badly dressed youths seemed to be the norm. I'm not too interested in arguing the rest of your post. The perspective of a "normal" fan will always be different. However, you do sound like a proper fruit/mummy's boy. You would not have seen those numbers going at it because it was quite organised and only those in the middle of it were involved. Referencing what a lot of lads say from that era, most of us had no wish to harm passers by, innocent fans, normal fans. There was no interest in that. So fruits like yourself should have been kept well away from those scenes, and it sounds like you were. If you didn't see full on hand-to-hand battles on the streets of Bolton, Hull, Grimsby, Oldham, Barnsley, Bradford, Huddersfield, Leeds, and Sheffield, then the mission was accomplished and you were kept safe. So there's real proof that there was a reasonable intent, at least at SCFC, to avoid causing upset to everyday folk and normal fans. The concept of "even numbers" isn't something that was planned out, it wasn't scripted like "you bring 45 we'll bring 52 because you've got some monsters in your lot and we've got a few youth and nippers." If they had 150 and we had 100 we'd be more than willing to test our mettle and to be as honest as I can the amount of times Stoke were outnumbered was significant, 25 v 50, 100 v 150, the numbers are relative, and guesstimated. Stoke had some extremely handy lads who you would back up 100% and stand shoulder to shoulder, there was no budging them even against the best opposition. Many of us "second tier" lads, not the hardened frontline, would know when the odds were good. Because not everyone involved was a hardened fighter, or leader. I even stood 5 handed against a coach load and never got budged. Call me a liar all day long, I care not. 10 chased by 50, 15 take on 30 and hammer them, 3 chased by 30, 3 of us spat at and escorted out of town, untouched. 40 walk past a pub full of 100, OK good odds! So what let's just have it and see what gives. They have glasses, we have huge hardened lumps each of which can take out three of the enemy before they've even warmed up. One their glasses and bottles are thrown and we've stood firm, their own bottle goes and most often they'd be run back inside followed by a free pub redecoration job, Stoke fashion. Mostly a laugh and a joke, another story to tell at the next game. Stoke were notorious and horrible in whatever number, there were many times one coach or a small train mob was hand picked, some days lads were sent home as "runners" or because they didn't look to be up to snuff. It happened. When it did, you knew we could handle much bigger numbers and it added 1" to your stance on the streets and widened your shoulders 2". So those smaller numbers, outnumbered very often, just went at it and came out on top many many times, That's where the reputation came from, and over a few seasons it intimidated other firms. We had 80 so they would need 150 to even think about trying anything, because of what happened in the previous couple of years home and away. So to your other points, yes bad things happened, no excuse for some of the more extreme and unpleasant things. I don't think anyone is interested in defending most of that. We may have slightly rose tinted glasses as to that era, but don't make us out to be idiots, just because you can reference a few of the things you saw. Apologies to anyone reading who thinks this is an attempt to glorify anything. Just aiming for a reasoned and accurate description of how things were in the 80's and 90's. We've moved on. Football is about brand, revenue, clicks and impressions, merchandise and marketing. It's no longer the tribal working class sport that aims to alleviate the frustration of the working class after a week in the pit, factory or workshop. Cross posted in the 80's/90's thread.
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Post by Stokeontrent on Oct 7, 2015 17:09:09 GMT
Nobody unless invlover in it will ever understand and just call us all 'casual wannabes' 'bullies' etc and you will never be able to explain its not just about 'wanting a fight' its about the crack, the day, telling the tales and travelling the country with the lads, your mates. Standing by each other, not just at the football. But in general as a family.
The people who think otherwise will never understand because until you have been there and done it its all jus green street and football factory references. Its boring.
Those that know, know. And its as simple as that
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Oct 7, 2015 17:18:16 GMT
you dont think its possible to hang out with your mates and have a good crack WITHOUT the need to kick the crap out of someone?
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Post by miltonstokie on Oct 7, 2015 17:28:32 GMT
What I've never seen, ever,is two sets of fans/firms going 'toe to toe'. 25 badly dressed youths chasing/beating up 3 badly dressed youths seemed to be the norm. I'm not too interested in arguing the rest of your post. The perspective of a "normal" fan will always be different. However, you do sound like a proper fruit/mummy's boy. You would not have seen those numbers going at it because it was quite organised and only those in the middle of it were involved. Referencing what a lot of lads say from that era, most of us had no wish to harm passers by, innocent fans, normal fans. There was no interest in that. So fruits like yourself should have been kept well away from those scenes, and it sounds like you were. If you didn't see full on hand-to-hand battles on the streets of Bolton, Hull, Grimsby, Oldham, Barnsley, Bradford, Huddersfield, Leeds, and Sheffield, then the mission was accomplished and you were kept safe. So there's real proof that there was a reasonable intent, at least at SCFC, to avoid causing upset to everyday folk and normal fans. The concept of "even numbers" isn't something that was planned out, it wasn't scripted like "you bring 45 we'll bring 52 because you've got some monsters in your lot and we've got a few youth and nippers." If they had 150 and we had 100 we'd be more than willing to test our mettle and to be as honest as I can the amount of times Stoke were outnumbered was significant, 25 v 50, 100 v 150, the numbers are relative, and guesstimated. Stoke had some extremely handy lads who you would back up 100% and stand shoulder to shoulder, there was no budging them even against the best opposition. Many of us "second tier" lads, not the hardened frontline, would know when the odds were good. Because not everyone involved was a hardened fighter, or leader. I even stood 5 handed against a coach load and never got budged. Call me a liar all day long, I care not. 10 chased by 50, 15 take on 30 and hammer them, 3 chased by 30, 3 of us spat at and escorted out of town, untouched. 40 walk past a pub full of 100, OK good odds! So what let's just have it and see what gives. They have glasses, we have huge hardened lumps each of which can take out three of the enemy before they've even warmed up. One their glasses and bottles are thrown and we've stood firm, their own bottle goes and most often they'd be run back inside followed by a free pub redecoration job, Stoke fashion. Mostly a laugh and a joke, another story to tell at the next game. Stoke were notorious and horrible in whatever number, there were many times one coach or a small train mob was hand picked, some days lads were sent home as "runners" or because they didn't look to be up to snuff. It happened. When it did, you knew we could handle much bigger numbers and it added 1" to your stance on the streets and widened your shoulders 2". So those smaller numbers, outnumbered very often, just went at it and came out on top many many times, That's where the reputation came from, and over a few seasons it intimidated other firms. We had 80 so they would need 150 to even think about trying anything, because of what happened in the previous couple of years home and away. So to your other points, yes bad things happened, no excuse for some of the more extreme and unpleasant things. I don't think anyone is interested in defending most of that. We may have slightly rose tinted glasses as to that era, but don't make us out to be idiots, just because you can reference a few of the things you saw. Apologies to anyone reading who thinks this is an attempt to glorify anything. Just aiming for a reasoned and accurate description of how things were in the 80's and 90's. We've moved on. Football is about brand, revenue, clicks and impressions, merchandise and marketing. It's no longer the tribal working class sport that aims to alleviate the frustration of the working class after a week in the pit, factory or workshop. Cross posted in the 80's/90's thread. Ronnie Pickering ?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 17:37:57 GMT
I've read it was about the togetherness and the love and respect for eachother - but blow jobs too? Sounds a bit gay
Fuck's sake I wasn't a hooligan mate - read the post - it says "SHE". Unless some youth lobbing a bin through my mum's car window makes me a violent lunatic now? Fucks sake yourself for that...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 17:39:46 GMT
you dont think its possible to hang out with your mates and have a good crack WITHOUT the need to kick the crap out of someone or sucking eachothers cock in the back of your mums car?
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Post by potterblade on Oct 7, 2015 17:42:43 GMT
Hooligans fighting eachother just reeks of self-loathing to me. Selling it as "camaraderie" or "the working mans release"? Its a very small minded, uneducated notion of "sticking together and family" to kick shit out of your comrades in another town every weekend just because (maybe) Maggie Thatcher fucked you ALL over and you haven't got shit all else worth aspiring to or to care about. Same enemy different faces and jerseys every weekend you were only ever fighting yourselves.
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Post by bristolpotter on Oct 7, 2015 18:35:43 GMT
Potterblade, or maybe some people just like to fight at football regardless of the personal circumstances, its irrelevant peoples backgrounds, upbringing etc because no way can you pigeonhole probably over 2000 people who have been involved over the decades at Stoke in some form or another, or are you just trying to justify it to yourself they were all sold down the river of lost broken dreams, like fuck, I'm doing fine take mate, got 3 good kids wouldn't get involved these days but loved following stoke late 80s to mid 2000s, you can keep your sanitised American football style atmosphere these days, I'll keep my memories.
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Post by dexta on Oct 7, 2015 18:47:32 GMT
Hooligans fighting eachother just reeks of self-loathing to me. Selling it as "camaraderie" or "the working mans release"? Its a very small minded, uneducated notion of "sticking together and family" to kick shit out of your comrades in another town every weekend just because (maybe) Maggie Thatcher fucked you ALL over and you haven't got shit all else worth aspiring to or to care about. Same enemy different faces and jerseys every weekend you were only ever fighting yourselves. wtf you blabbing on about....don't give a fuck what any body thinks on here back in the late 70s early 80s anyone was up for it scarfer shorter the lot...
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Post by potterblade on Oct 7, 2015 19:07:28 GMT
Potterblade, or maybe some people just like to fight at football regardless of the personal circumstances, its irrelevant peoples backgrounds, upbringing etc because no way can you pigeonhole probably over 2000 people who have been involved over the decades at Stoke in some form or another, or are you just trying to justify it to yourself they were all sold down the river of lost broken dreams, like fuck, I'm doing fine take mate, got 3 good kids wouldn't get involved these days but loved following stoke late 80s to mid 2000s, you can keep your sanitised American football style atmosphere these days, I'll keep my memories. Yeah maybe you've nailed it there. Some people just like a fight. Why though? All I'm saying is - to justify with ideas of camaraderie and sticking together is clearly bullshit when ur beating up people just like you every weekend.
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Post by kevkj on Oct 7, 2015 19:36:44 GMT
ffs sake Potterblade you should have tried going away to Everton,Leeds,The Shit and in fact most large city clubs in the 70s even early 80s you would be picked off. Yes we might take loads to Burnely,Sheff u etc . Its only when Stoke lads got it together it was remotely safe to go.Then we did and in numbers. That my friend is just the way it was ,play the game or don't go back then.
I remember a certain individual coming to me at Notts C early 80s stating no more. He went round all the local area groups and said the same
All lads would travel together,and from Everton away first game of the next season Stokies travelled anywhere and everywhere on the whole.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Oct 7, 2015 19:55:13 GMT
Fact is and I've never had a fight at a match in my life, when you came out of the Boothen End to make your way up to the station, there was only one way to get there safely and that was to be in the crowd! I have no idea about the world of oldstoke or kev but in those days, mid seventies onwards, there were certin teams who came to Stoke to have a scrap and came out of the Stoke End looking for it. In those days away supporters were seldom held in after the match.
The first sort of any organisation I can remeber seeing is against West Ham. They came running out of the Stoke End and were confronted by certain numbers who appeared from behind the Pub opposite.
My personal opinion is the mob we had in the 80's evolved from the aggression other teams showed towards us.
Fighting isn't big and it isn't clever, but those days you had to be aware all the time of the possibility you could be involved in something you didn't necessarily want to be. You were there, it was there!
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Post by dexta on Oct 7, 2015 20:00:13 GMT
Fact is and I've never had a fight at a match in my life, when you came out of the Boothen End to make your way up to the station, there was only one way to get there safely and that was to be in the crowd! I have no idea about the world of oldstoke or kev but in those days, mid seventies onwards, there were certin teams who came to Stoke to have a scrap and came out of the Stoke End looking for it. In those days away supporters were seldom held in after the match. The first sort of any organisation I can remeber seeing is against West Ham. They came running out of the Stoke End and were confronted by certain numbers who appeared from behind the Pub opposite. My personal opinion is the mob we had in the 80's evolved from the aggression other teams showed towards us. Fighting isn't big and it isn't clever, but those days you had to be aware all the time of the possibility you could be involved in something you didn't necessarily want to be. You were there, it was there! wtf you on about you had a smoke
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Post by potterblade on Oct 7, 2015 20:33:31 GMT
Self defence I can understand. Orchestrated violence? Not so much.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Oct 7, 2015 20:39:03 GMT
Fact is and I've never had a fight at a match in my life, when you came out of the Boothen End to make your way up to the station, there was only one way to get there safely and that was to be in the crowd! I have no idea about the world of oldstoke or kev but in those days, mid seventies onwards, there were certin teams who came to Stoke to have a scrap and came out of the Stoke End looking for it. In those days away supporters were seldom held in after the match. The first sort of any organisation I can remeber seeing is against West Ham. They came running out of the Stoke End and were confronted by certain numbers who appeared from behind the Pub opposite. My personal opinion is the mob we had in the 80's evolved from the aggression other teams showed towards us. Fighting isn't big and it isn't clever, but those days you had to be aware all the time of the possibility you could be involved in something you didn't necessarily want to be. You were there, it was there! wtf you on about you had a smoke I'm talking about the mid seventies and how I think it evolved. Maybe you could enlighten us then from your persepctive in the 80's. As I said I have no idea about all that as I wasn't there.
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Post by lordb on Oct 7, 2015 21:53:21 GMT
What I've never seen, ever,is two sets of fans/firms going 'toe to toe'. 25 badly dressed youths chasing/beating up 3 badly dressed youths seemed to be the norm. I'm not too interested in arguing the rest of your post. The perspective of a "normal" fan will always be different. However, you do sound like a proper fruit/mummy's boy. You would not have seen those numbers going at it because it was quite organised and only those in the middle of it were involved. Referencing what a lot of lads say from that era, most of us had no wish to harm passers by, innocent fans, normal fans. There was no interest in that. So fruits like yourself should have been kept well away from those scenes, and it sounds like you were. If you didn't see full on hand-to-hand battles on the streets of Bolton, Hull, Grimsby, Oldham, Barnsley, Bradford, Huddersfield, Leeds, and Sheffield, then the mission was accomplished and you were kept safe. So there's real proof that there was a reasonable intent, at least at SCFC, to avoid causing upset to everyday folk and normal fans. The concept of "even numbers" isn't something that was planned out, it wasn't scripted like "you bring 45 we'll bring 52 because you've got some monsters in your lot and we've got a few youth and nippers." If they had 150 and we had 100 we'd be more than willing to test our mettle and to be as honest as I can the amount of times Stoke were outnumbered was significant, 25 v 50, 100 v 150, the numbers are relative, and guesstimated. Stoke had some extremely handy lads who you would back up 100% and stand shoulder to shoulder, there was no budging them even against the best opposition. Many of us "second tier" lads, not the hardened frontline, would know when the odds were good. Because not everyone involved was a hardened fighter, or leader. I even stood 5 handed against a coach load and never got budged. Call me a liar all day long, I care not. 10 chased by 50, 15 take on 30 and hammer them, 3 chased by 30, 3 of us spat at and escorted out of town, untouched. 40 walk past a pub full of 100, OK good odds! So what let's just have it and see what gives. They have glasses, we have huge hardened lumps each of which can take out three of the enemy before they've even warmed up. One their glasses and bottles are thrown and we've stood firm, their own bottle goes and most often they'd be run back inside followed by a free pub redecoration job, Stoke fashion. Mostly a laugh and a joke, another story to tell at the next game. Stoke were notorious and horrible in whatever number, there were many times one coach or a small train mob was hand picked, some days lads were sent home as "runners" or because they didn't look to be up to snuff. It happened. When it did, you knew we could handle much bigger numbers and it added 1" to your stance on the streets and widened your shoulders 2". So those smaller numbers, outnumbered very often, just went at it and came out on top many many times, That's where the reputation came from, and over a few seasons it intimidated other firms. We had 80 so they would need 150 to even think about trying anything, because of what happened in the previous couple of years home and away. So to your other points, yes bad things happened, no excuse for some of the more extreme and unpleasant things. I don't think anyone is interested in defending most of that. We may have slightly rose tinted glasses as to that era, but don't make us out to be idiots, just because you can reference a few of the things you saw. Apologies to anyone reading who thinks this is an attempt to glorify anything. Just aiming for a reasoned and accurate description of how things were in the 80's and 90's. We've moved on. Football is about brand, revenue, clicks and impressions, merchandise and marketing. It's no longer the tribal working class sport that aims to alleviate the frustration of the working class after a week in the pit, factory or workshop. Cross posted in the 80's/90's thread. I won't call you a liar but you are ignoring the reality of so much that went on. I.e. innocent people getting seriously hurt by utter scum bags. This wasn't an unfortunate side affect this was the main event,week in week out. Football has always been about revenue,it's just got hyper developed.
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tvgc
Spectator
Posts: 24
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Post by tvgc on Oct 7, 2015 22:04:55 GMT
Hooligans fighting eachother just reeks of self-loathing to me. Selling it as "camaraderie" or "the working mans release"? Its a very small minded, uneducated notion of "sticking together and family" to kick shit out of your comrades in another town every weekend just because (maybe) Maggie Thatcher fucked you ALL over and you haven't got shit all else worth aspiring to or to care about. Same enemy different faces and jerseys every weekend you were only ever fighting yourselves. oh dear oh dear, like it or not, to follow the lads in the 80's you had to have a bit of bottle about you, thank fuck you weren't about back then on the long walk back to new street, you had to be a wolf or a sheep, and you sir .... What's politics got to do with it forsooth? As someone once said "it's a way of life"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 22:06:10 GMT
Lord B - read my 2nd & 3rd to last paragraphs again.
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