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Post by Gods on Sept 2, 2015 9:30:34 GMT
Our 2 most recent dalliances in to the center half market have seen us rather alarmingly come up clutching TexMex and Wooly.
Very simplistically had we taken the £2.75m we paid for Wooly and added to that the £3m we received for Robert Huth and then put together the wages of Huth, Wooly and Tex could we not have acquired a proper center back?
Not only as short term cover for Ryan but as real competition for one of the 2 center back berths.
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Post by themistocles on Sept 2, 2015 9:42:16 GMT
Our 2 most recent dalliances in to the center half market have seen us rather alarmingly come up clutching TexMex and Wooly. Very simplistically had we taken the £2.75m we paid for Wooly and added to that the £3m we received for Robert Huth and then put together the wages of Huth, Wooly and Tex could we not have acquired a proper center back? Not only as short term cover for Ryan but as real competition for one of the 2 center back berths. I wounder if the news regarding Shaw cross out until Christmas's came at the end of last season as opposed to July, huth would've been more inclined to stay with the prospect of more game time . |
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Post by jeycov on Sept 2, 2015 9:45:24 GMT
Maybe MH thinks that we can manage as Ryan is slowly reintegrated back into the squad - not sure he will play until after Christmas however.
The management will know how well he has come through the procedure and be aware of all the possibilities re a date to return
Maybe no new CB is a positive regarding Ryan
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 9:54:39 GMT
Maybe MH thinks that we can manage as Ryan is slowly reintegrated back into the squad - not sure he will play until after Christmas however. The management will know how well he has come through the procedure and be aware of all the possibilities re a date to return Maybe no new CB is a positive regarding Ryan Ryan is doing a twitter Q & A at 1pm today, so we may hear more about his progress then. Or it may have to be written off due to the Arsenal trolls, who are already lining up...  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 9:56:24 GMT
Our 2 most recent dalliances in to the center half market have seen us rather alarmingly come up clutching TexMex and Wooly. Very simplistically had we taken the £2.75m we paid for Wooly and added to that the £3m we received for Robert Huth and then put together the wages of Huth, Wooly and Tex could we not have acquired a proper center back? Not only as short term cover for Ryan but as real competition for one of the 2 center back berths. Who? |
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Post by metalhead on Sept 2, 2015 9:57:54 GMT
In my opinion the biggest mistake was being indecisive in the beginning. Nothing to do with the money spent on Wolly or whatever.
Any doctor or expert in back pain, will tell you that untreated back problems don't just 'go away'. They need surgery to be gone for good. Hence why Tiger Woods, Andy Murray and a whole plethora of other sportsman opted for surgery rather than waiting around. Nursing a back problem, you can hide it, even feel like it's gone, but it will always come back. We were indecisive last season. We panicked. We should have opted for surgery at the first possible opportunity, and that was back end of last season. Then, he would be back today.
We shot ourselves in the foot yes, but nothing to do with transfers.
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Post by werrington on Sept 2, 2015 13:43:21 GMT
Our 2 most recent dalliances in to the center half market have seen us rather alarmingly come up clutching TexMex and Wooly. Very simplistically had we taken the £2.75m we paid for Wooly and added to that the £3m we received for Robert Huth and then put together the wages of Huth, Wooly and Tex could we not have acquired a proper center back? Not only as short term cover for Ryan but as real competition for one of the 2 center back berths. I wounder if the news regarding Shaw cross out until Christmas's came at the end of last season as opposed to July, huth would've been more inclined to stay with the prospect of more game time . Out til Xmas !!!.....when did that happen ? Thought it was October |
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Post by themistocles on Sept 2, 2015 13:44:39 GMT
I wounder if the news regarding Shaw cross out until Christmas's came at the end of last season as opposed to July, huth would've been more inclined to stay with the prospect of more game time . Out til Xmas !!!.....when did that happen ? Thought it was October Thought I read somewhere it was closer to the new year |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 2, 2015 13:49:12 GMT
Out til Xmas !!!.....when did that happen ? Thought it was October Thought I read somewhere it was closer to the new year You did...on here probably :-) |
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Post by stokemanusa on Sept 2, 2015 21:38:24 GMT
I wounder if the news regarding Shaw cross out until Christmas's came at the end of last season as opposed to July, huth would've been more inclined to stay with the prospect of more game time . Out til Xmas !!!.....when did that happen ? Thought it was October It is October at early estimates, but he thinks he will be jogging next week from his Twitter Q&A and knowing Ryan he'll fight through training and rehab to comeback soon as he can. |
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Post by metalhead on Sept 2, 2015 21:57:19 GMT
Out til Xmas !!!.....when did that happen ? Thought it was October It is October at early estimates, but he thinks he will be jogging next week from his Twitter Q&A and knowing Ryan he'll fight through training and rehab to comeback soon as he can. I assume much of his early rehab will be general fitness. There's no point in pushing his back at all. That'll come with time and patience. Some conditioning work will be good for his general fitness. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 2, 2015 22:59:19 GMT
Whoever we signed wouldn't be good enough if that said new signing then had to come into the team to cover Ryan Shawcross.
We are talking about one of the very best defenders in the country. There are very few, if any, who are likely to compare to him. A centre half who can consistently nullify the best centre forwards that the Premier League has to offer are pretty rare. The proper art of defending is pretty rare.
It is all well and good to bemoan the fact that Wooly, Cameron, Wilson, Muniesa, Tex or whoever else aren't good enough to fill Ryan's boots but truth is, unless it was a super top drawer defender, likely to cost many millions of pounds, no new signing would be good enough or instill the supporter base with enough confidence in that new player.
Losing Ryan Shawcross would weaken ANY TEAM in England.
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Post by rawli on Sept 2, 2015 23:01:07 GMT
In my opinion the biggest mistake was being indecisive in the beginning. Nothing to do with the money spent on Wolly or whatever. Any doctor or expert in back pain, will tell you that untreated back problems don't just 'go away'. They need surgery to be gone for good. Hence why Tiger Woods, Andy Murray and a whole plethora of other sportsman opted for surgery rather than waiting around. Nursing a back problem, you can hide it, even feel like it's gone, but it will always come back. We were indecisive last season. We panicked. We should have opted for surgery at the first possible opportunity, and that was back end of last season. Then, he would be back today. We shot ourselves in the foot yes, but nothing to do with transfers. You are talking as if the club and the player didn't seek medical advice. Given the multi-million pound value of the player it can be assumed they went to a highly qualified specialist on the matter (I assume, as you say, they may have even been a doctor or expert in back pain). I also assume the club acted on his or her advice which, presumably, wasn't to operate straight away. I assume that back surgery is the very last resort to solve these issues (as one hysteric put on here, Ryan was only a surgeons slip away from being permanently paralysed). I'm making a lot of assumptions here but I assume you are too. (Another assumption just for good measure). |
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Post by rawli on Sept 2, 2015 23:02:12 GMT
Whoever we signed wouldn't be good enough if that said new signing then had to come into the team to cover Ryan Shawcross. We are talking about one of the very best defenders in the country. There are very few, if any, who are likely to compare to him. A centre half who can consistently nullify the best centre forwards that the Premier League has to offer are pretty rare. The proper art of defending is pretty rare. It is all well and good to bemoan the fact that Wooly, Cameron, Wilson, Muniesa, Tex or whoever else aren't good enough to fill Ryan's boots but truth is, unless it was a super top drawer defender, likely to cost many millions of pounds, no new signing would be good enough or instill the supporter base with enough confidence in that new player. Losing Ryan Shawcross would weaken ANY TEAM in England. Even Leicester? I'm not having that. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 2, 2015 23:14:54 GMT
Whoever we signed wouldn't be good enough if that said new signing then had to come into the team to cover Ryan Shawcross. We are talking about one of the very best defenders in the country. There are very few, if any, who are likely to compare to him. A centre half who can consistently nullify the best centre forwards that the Premier League has to offer are pretty rare. The proper art of defending is pretty rare. It is all well and good to bemoan the fact that Wooly, Cameron, Wilson, Muniesa, Tex or whoever else aren't good enough to fill Ryan's boots but truth is, unless it was a super top drawer defender, likely to cost many millions of pounds, no new signing would be good enough or instill the supporter base with enough confidence in that new player. Losing Ryan Shawcross would weaken ANY TEAM in England. Even Leicester? I'm not having that. Even Leicester. Remember how ordinary sir robert looked when Ryan wasn't alongside him? Swindon, Wrexham, Southampton, Sunderland. Did Ryan play away at Bolton? Huth has done fantastic for Leicester and he was magnificent for us alongside Ryan, but much of leicesters revival and early season form has been down to that mahrez fella who looks a superb player that opposition teams worry about. |
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Post by metalhead on Sept 2, 2015 23:41:51 GMT
In my opinion the biggest mistake was being indecisive in the beginning. Nothing to do with the money spent on Wolly or whatever. Any doctor or expert in back pain, will tell you that untreated back problems don't just 'go away'. They need surgery to be gone for good. Hence why Tiger Woods, Andy Murray and a whole plethora of other sportsman opted for surgery rather than waiting around. Nursing a back problem, you can hide it, even feel like it's gone, but it will always come back. We were indecisive last season. We panicked. We should have opted for surgery at the first possible opportunity, and that was back end of last season. Then, he would be back today. We shot ourselves in the foot yes, but nothing to do with transfers. You are talking as if the club and the player didn't seek medical advice. Given the multi-million pound value of the player it can be assumed they went to a highly qualified specialist on the matter (I assume, as you say, they may have even been a doctor or expert in back pain). I also assume the club acted on his or her advice which, presumably, wasn't to operate straight away. I assume that back surgery is the very last resort to solve these issues (as one hysteric put on here, Ryan was only a surgeons slip away from being permanently paralysed). I'm making a lot of assumptions here but I assume you are too. (Another assumption just for good measure). Of course they'll have gotten advice but it doesn't mean they followed it. Surgery is the last resort but it's rare that it just goes away. |
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Post by slpmarc on Sept 3, 2015 4:15:41 GMT
Doesn't matter who's available as a free agent, if he has already named a full 25 man squad and if he has left a space, then, as far as I understand it, he couldn't add a current player not already named. So I reckon what we've got, is what we've got to go with. Thanks guys....I forgot that the 25 man squad has already been named (it HAS, hasn't it?) The 25 man squad has not be made yet, else what's the point of the transfer window if you cannot add the players you have brought. It has to be submitted within the next week to the premier league and then cannot be added to till January 1st |
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Post by alster on Sept 3, 2015 7:15:45 GMT
You are talking as if the club and the player didn't seek medical advice. Given the multi-million pound value of the player it can be assumed they went to a highly qualified specialist on the matter (I assume, as you say, they may have even been a doctor or expert in back pain). I also assume the club acted on his or her advice which, presumably, wasn't to operate straight away. I assume that back surgery is the very last resort to solve these issues (as one hysteric put on here, Ryan was only a surgeons slip away from being permanently paralysed). I'm making a lot of assumptions here but I assume you are too. (Another assumption just for good measure). Of course they'll have gotten advice but it doesn't mean they followed it. Surgery is the last resort but it's rare that it just goes away. I've had quite a few lower back episodes over the years and know a lot of people who have too. I've never known anyone go for an initial consultation and come away with immediate surgery as a recommendation. You must see some very knife happy consultant. |
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Post by Squeekster on Sept 3, 2015 7:35:57 GMT
It's been a long standing problem though with Ryan and his back. Surgery was spoken about with about 2 months of the season remaining, they should of done the op then and he would probably be some where near now.
Big own goal by the club.
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Post by rawli on Sept 3, 2015 8:43:06 GMT
It's been a long standing problem though with Ryan and his back. Surgery was spoken about with about 2 months of the season remaining, they should of done the op then and he would probably be some where near now. Big own goal by the club. Christ. The number of orthopedic surgeons who post on here is incredible. Shouldn't you all be helping the sick rather than hanging out round here? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 9:04:20 GMT
It's been a long standing problem though with Ryan and his back. Surgery was spoken about with about 2 months of the season remaining, they should of done the op then and he would probably be some where near now. Big own goal by the club. Speaking from personal experience, it isn't that simple. Any surgeon that puts a knife into someone's back is putting their reputation on the line for what even the most experienced surgeon's call a risky procedure. It won't be designed around a football season. It will be designed around the patient's health and that alone. ....and yes rawli. I was that hysteric. |
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Post by clarkeda on Sept 3, 2015 9:07:16 GMT
Yeah let's rush him for surgery at the first opportunity where ultimately one mistake could leave him unable to walk...
The club have handled it perfectly in my opinion.
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Post by metalhead on Sept 3, 2015 9:38:12 GMT
Yeah let's rush him for surgery at the first opportunity where ultimately one mistake could leave him unable to walk... The club have handled it perfectly in my opinion. But it's not rushing him in is it? This first appeared over 6 months ago and has come back a few times. I don't think the club have handled it badly, I think they hoped (rightly so), it would go away, but after coming back a few times, I just wonder if getting it done in the summer would have been a better shout. I guess Ryan will have also been involved in those consultations and himself, might not have wanted the surgery. |
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Post by Davef on Sept 3, 2015 11:18:50 GMT
In my opinion the biggest mistake was being indecisive in the beginning. Nothing to do with the money spent on Wolly or whatever. Any doctor or expert in back pain, will tell you that untreated back problems don't just 'go away'. They need surgery to be gone for good. Hence why Tiger Woods, Andy Murray and a whole plethora of other sportsman opted for surgery rather than waiting around. Nursing a back problem, you can hide it, even feel like it's gone, but it will always come back. We were indecisive last season. We panicked. We should have opted for surgery at the first possible opportunity, and that was back end of last season. Then, he would be back today. We shot ourselves in the foot yes, but nothing to do with transfers. Actually, both Tiger Woods and Andy Murray - like Ryan Shawcross - continued to play for quite some time with their back problems, and, like Ryan, would no doubt have been advised as to the best way to manage their situation. In all three cases, you can be sure that their operation was the last resort. |
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Sept 3, 2015 11:22:17 GMT
Whoever we signed wouldn't be good enough if that said new signing then had to come into the team to cover Ryan Shawcross. We are talking about one of the very best defenders in the country. There are very few, if any, who are likely to compare to him. A centre half who can consistently nullify the best centre forwards that the Premier League has to offer are pretty rare. The proper art of defending is pretty rare. It is all well and good to bemoan the fact that Wooly, Cameron, Wilson, Muniesa, Tex or whoever else aren't good enough to fill Ryan's boots but truth is, unless it was a super top drawer defender, likely to cost many millions of pounds, no new signing would be good enough or instill the supporter base with enough confidence in that new player. Losing Ryan Shawcross would weaken ANY TEAM in England. I want to make sweet and at the same time animalistic love to that post. Yummy. |
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Post by metalhead on Sept 3, 2015 11:23:29 GMT
In my opinion the biggest mistake was being indecisive in the beginning. Nothing to do with the money spent on Wolly or whatever. Any doctor or expert in back pain, will tell you that untreated back problems don't just 'go away'. They need surgery to be gone for good. Hence why Tiger Woods, Andy Murray and a whole plethora of other sportsman opted for surgery rather than waiting around. Nursing a back problem, you can hide it, even feel like it's gone, but it will always come back. We were indecisive last season. We panicked. We should have opted for surgery at the first possible opportunity, and that was back end of last season. Then, he would be back today. We shot ourselves in the foot yes, but nothing to do with transfers. Actually, both Tiger Woods and Andy Murray - like Ryan Shawcross - continued to play for quite some time with their back problems, and, like Ryan, would no doubt have been advised as to the best way to manage their situation. In all three cases, you can be sure that their operation was the last resort. Interesting contrast in fortunes though eh? |
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Post by Squeekster on Sept 3, 2015 11:38:21 GMT
It's been a long standing problem though with Ryan and his back. Surgery was spoken about with about 2 months of the season remaining, they should of done the op then and he would probably be some where near now. Big own goal by the club. Christ. The number of orthopedic surgeons who post on here is incredible. Shouldn't you all be helping the sick rather than hanging out round here? I'm no surgeon but the fact remains it's been a problem for long while and he has now had the surgery anyway so why couldn't of been 6 months ago when it became clear that it wasn't going to get better on it's self? |
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Post by Squeekster on Sept 3, 2015 11:40:59 GMT
It's been a long standing problem though with Ryan and his back. Surgery was spoken about with about 2 months of the season remaining, they should of done the op then and he would probably be some where near now. Big own goal by the club. Speaking from personal experience, it isn't that simple. Any surgeon that puts a knife into someone's back is putting their reputation on the line for what even the most experienced surgeon's call a risky procedure. It won't be designed around a football season. It will be designed around the patient's health and that alone. ....and yes rawli. I was that hysteric. I fully understand that you don't just operate at the drop of a hat mate but all I'm saying is he's had the surgery any way and he must of had the same % of success/failure then, like i said this has been an ongoing issue with Ryan so it isn't as if it was a new injury. |
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Post by thebet365 on Sept 3, 2015 11:43:12 GMT
Christ. The number of orthopedic surgeons who post on here is incredible. Shouldn't you all be helping the sick rather than hanging out round here? I'm no surgeon but the fact remains it's been a problem for long while and he has now had the surgery anyway so why couldn't of been 6 months ago when it became clear that it wasn't going to get better on it's self? Because 6 months ago it wasn't clear. I'd imagine they hoped the summer break would clear up the problem, and that's not the club, that'll be the medical experts. |
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 3, 2015 12:54:05 GMT
I'm no surgeon but the fact remains it's been a problem for long while and he has now had the surgery anyway so why couldn't of been 6 months ago when it became clear that it wasn't going to get better on it's self? Because 6 months ago it wasn't clear. I'd imagine they hoped the summer break would clear up the problem, and that's not the club, that'll be the medical experts. Wonder if they are the same ones that did the medical on Demba Ba, if they are we would be better off employing a fucking witch doctor. |
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