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Post by silverdollar on Aug 27, 2015 15:27:57 GMT
In my time I have been privelidged to work with some very good players. I have also had to watch many games looking for good talent. If I was asked what qualities make a player a good player, I would list these things:- Athleticism ( Good body shape and size, pace, stamina and strength)
Good Technical Ability ( Good control, manipulates the ball well, passes and heads the ball well)
Good Vision
Brave
Determined
Disciplined
Confident
By the time players make the first team squads of Premier League Clubs you can almost guarantee that the players will have the first six of the list in abundance. Believe me it's a long hard journey.
The one quality that does affect performance the most though is the last one. During a season a players performance can fluctuate so much through a loss of confidence. It happens with strikers especially but also with defenders.
It is amazing to read through "Stoke Supporters" posts on this site and see what a great job they do of undermining many of Stoke's squad.
I am sure that players are advised not to look at forums!
Wollshied, Afellay, Van Ginkel, etc need our love not to be constantly labelled as excrement. They do not need to be scorned and ridiculed.
Arnautovic is a great example of the way confidence can affect performance.
Get behind someone like Wollshied and encourage him and you may see a new player emerge!
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Aug 27, 2015 15:31:30 GMT
In my time I have been privelidged to work with some very good players. I have also had to watch many games looking for good talent. If I was asked what qualities make a player a good player, I would list these things:- Athleticism ( Good body shape and size, pace, stamina and strength) Good Technical Ability ( Good control, manipulates the ball well, passes and heads the ball well) Good Vision Brave Determined Disciplined Confident By the time players make the first team squads of Premier League Clubs you can almost guarantee that the players will have the first six of the list in abundance. Believe me it's a long hard journey. The one quality that does affect performance the most though is the last one. During a season a players performance can fluctuate so much through a loss of confidence. It happens with strikers especially but also with defenders. It is amazing to read through "Stoke Supporters" posts on this site and see what a great job they do of undermining many of Stoke's squad. I am sure that players are advised not to look at forums! Wollshied, Afellay, Van Ginkel, etc need our love not to be constantly labelled as excrement. They do not need to be scorned and ridiculed. Arnautovic is a great example of the way confidence can affect performance. Get behind someone like Wollshied and encourage him and you may see a new player emerge! i'd add fitness to that list, and that can fluctuate a lot. If one is tired athleticism and concentration suffer. Staying physically fit and in tip top shape is a constant battle. And it gets harder to do the older you get. |
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Post by silverdollar on Aug 27, 2015 15:33:06 GMT
In my time I have been privelidged to work with some very good players. I have also had to watch many games looking for good talent. If I was asked what qualities make a player a good player, I would list these things:- Athleticism ( Good body shape and size, pace, stamina and strength) Good Technical Ability ( Good control, manipulates the ball well, passes and heads the ball well) Good Vision Brave Determined Disciplined Confident By the time players make the first team squads of Premier League Clubs you can almost guarantee that the players will have the first six of the list in abundance. Believe me it's a long hard journey. The one quality that does affect performance the most though is the last one. During a season a players performance can fluctuate so much through a loss of confidence. It happens with strikers especially but also with defenders. It is amazing to read through "Stoke Supporters" posts on this site and see what a great job they do of undermining many of Stoke's squad. I am sure that players are advised not to look at forums! Wollshied, Afellay, Van Ginkel, etc need our love not to be constantly labelled as excrement. They do not need to be scorned and ridiculed. Arnautovic is a great example of the way confidence can affect performance. Get behind someone like Wollshied and encourage him and you may see a new player emerge! i'd add fitness to that list, and that can fluctuate a lot. If one is tired athleticism and concentration suffer. Staying physically fit and in tip top shape is a constant battle. And it gets harder to do the older you get. Fitness comes under the umbrella of Athleticism! |
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Post by maninasuitcase on Aug 27, 2015 15:40:47 GMT
Attitude
Application
Athleticism
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Post by robstokie on Aug 27, 2015 15:54:14 GMT
In my time I have been privelidged to work with some very good players. I have also had to watch many games looking for good talent. If I was asked what qualities make a player a good player, I would list these things:- Athleticism ( Good body shape and size, pace, stamina and strength) Good Technical Ability ( Good control, manipulates the ball well, passes and heads the ball well) Good Vision Brave Determined Disciplined Confident By the time players make the first team squads of Premier League Clubs you can almost guarantee that the players will have the first six of the list in abundance. Believe me it's a long hard journey. The one quality that does affect performance the most though is the last one. During a season a players performance can fluctuate so much through a loss of confidence. It happens with strikers especially but also with defenders. It is amazing to read through "Stoke Supporters" posts on this site and see what a great job they do of undermining many of Stoke's squad. I am sure that players are advised not to look at forums! Wollshied, Afellay, Van Ginkel, etc need our love not to be constantly labelled as excrement. They do not need to be scorned and ridiculed. Arnautovic is a great example of the way confidence can affect performance. Get behind someone like Wollshied and encourage him and you may see a new player emerge! All the above, plus a genuine enthusiasm for the game. |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Aug 27, 2015 16:04:40 GMT
All good stuff Dollar, but this forum provides a fantastic opportunity for us all to play at manager, King for a Season. In the grander scheme of things it dunner matter a jot. Just an extra dimension to the Premiership pantomime.
It's games and good performances that breed confidence, not what us dullards think on here.
In short I don't agree with the calls for gagging opinion, no matter how ill informed or ill conceived.
Every poster's opinion has an equal weight in my view. Just some are gold and some shite..
It wouldn't be worth coming on here if everyone toed the line.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Aug 27, 2015 16:08:06 GMT
Not have the name Salif or Diao.
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Post by silverdollar on Aug 27, 2015 16:18:38 GMT
All good stuff Dollar, but this forum provides a fantastic opportunity for us all to play at manager, King for a Season. In the grander scheme of things it dunner matter a jot. Just an extra dimension to the Premiership pantomime. It's games and good performances that breed confidence, not what us dullards think on here. In short I don't agree with the calls for gagging opinion, no matter how ill informed or ill conceived. Every poster's opinion has an equal weight in my view. Just some are gold and some shite.. It wouldn't be worth coming on here if everyone toed the line. I know it may be difficult but I was trying to make some fans think more about they describe players and the adjectives they choose to use. Games, Success and Good Feedback breeds confidence and U.S. fans are in prime position to help with that! I have no problem with people expressing their opinions and views about their team and its players. I am just saying be more thoughtful and realise the possible consequences. |
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Post by iloveglennwhelan on Aug 27, 2015 16:35:08 GMT
Every component that Glenn Whelan possesses.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Aug 27, 2015 16:47:59 GMT
All good stuff Dollar, but this forum provides a fantastic opportunity for us all to play at manager, King for a Season. In the grander scheme of things it dunner matter a jot. Just an extra dimension to the Premiership pantomime. It's games and good performances that breed confidence, not what us dullards think on here. In short I don't agree with the calls for gagging opinion, no matter how ill informed or ill conceived. Every poster's opinion has an equal weight in my view. Just some are gold and some shite.. It wouldn't be worth coming on here if everyone toed the line. I know it may be difficult but I was trying to make some fans think more about they describe players and the adjectives they choose to use. Games, Success and Good Feedback breeds confidence and U.S. fans are in prime position to help with that! I have no problem with people expressing their opinions and views about their team and its players. I am just saying be more thoughtful and realise the possible consequences. What I'm saying is there are absolutely no consequences other than in your, and others who are easily offended's minds. If I call a player 'shit' on here, what'll happen? Will Hughes dock his wages? If he did get to hear about my comments would he go on a terminal downer or would he be more determined to prove me wrong. I'd hope it's the latter. Of course it's different at the match, while you might get individual rumblings of discontent I don't recall any recent co-ordinated campaigns against a player, and if anyone tried to use this forum to do so then that'd be the time to start telling folk to button it. Did you mean U.S. fans or us fans? I'm a bit confusermicated by that. |
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Post by silverdollar on Aug 27, 2015 17:48:16 GMT
I know it may be difficult but I was trying to make some fans think more about they describe players and the adjectives they choose to use. Games, Success and Good Feedback breeds confidence and U.S. fans are in prime position to help with that! I have no problem with people expressing their opinions and views about their team and its players. I am just saying be more thoughtful and realise the possible consequences. What I'm saying is there are absolutely no consequences other than in your, and others who are easily offended's minds. If I call a player 'shit' on here, what'll happen? Will Hughes dock his wages? If he did get to hear about my comments would he go on a terminal downer or would he be more determined to prove me wrong. I'd hope it's the latter. Of course it's different at the match, while you might get individual rumblings of discontent I don't recall any recent co-ordinated campaigns against a player, and if anyone tried to use this forum to do so then that'd be the time to start telling folk to button it. Did you mean U.S. fans or us fans? I'm a bit confusermicated by that. You're livin with double standards. Oatcake fanzine is used by all ages and both sexes. I meant "us" |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Aug 27, 2015 18:27:10 GMT
What I'm saying is there are absolutely no consequences other than in your, and others who are easily offended's minds. If I call a player 'shit' on here, what'll happen? Will Hughes dock his wages? If he did get to hear about my comments would he go on a terminal downer or would he be more determined to prove me wrong. I'd hope it's the latter. Of course it's different at the match, while you might get individual rumblings of discontent I don't recall any recent co-ordinated campaigns against a player, and if anyone tried to use this forum to do so then that'd be the time to start telling folk to button it. Did you mean U.S. fans or us fans? I'm a bit confusermicated by that. You're livin with double standards. Oatcake fanzine is used by all ages and both sexes. I meant "us" We could go around in circles on this, I don't get where my double standards are, you've just chucked that into the mix from nowhere. Would you discourage women and children from going to the match just in case they hear the shit word? I don't get your point at all. I'm not condoning wanton player abuse, I'm advocating freedom of speech and a bit of banter on a messageboard. I wouldn't ordinarily have gone on, but I couldn't let the 'double standard' thing lie, and I conner do with folk telling others what they can or can't say. Your interesting OP about player ability was just a thinly vieled 'shut up' in my eyes, and I disagree with it. |
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Post by iloveglennwhelan on Aug 27, 2015 18:35:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 18:49:22 GMT
Two legs (preferably with feet)
Two eyes (at the front is usually best but sideways seems to be in vogue at the moment)
Two Bollox (if you have no balls you will never try a shot or a pass that will change the game)
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Aug 27, 2015 18:52:01 GMT
i'd add fitness to that list, and that can fluctuate a lot. If one is tired athleticism and concentration suffer. Staying physically fit and in tip top shape is a constant battle. And it gets harder to do the older you get. Fitness comes under the umbrella of Athleticism! but you said confidence is the one that is variable, however i'd argue that athleticism is more of a variable. Fitness changes drastically as we age and from month to month based on training, endurance and injuries. |
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Aug 27, 2015 19:00:44 GMT
postioning
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Post by trickydicky73 on Aug 27, 2015 19:21:10 GMT
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Post by silverdollar on Aug 27, 2015 19:49:43 GMT
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Post by silverdollar on Aug 27, 2015 19:51:18 GMT
You're livin with double standards. Oatcake fanzine is used by all ages and both sexes. I meant "us" We could go around in circles on this, I don't get where my double standards are, you've just chucked that into the mix from nowhere. Would you discourage women and children from going to the match just in case they hear the shit word? I don't get your point at all. I'm not condoning wanton player abuse, I'm advocating freedom of speech and a bit of banter on a messageboard. I wouldn't ordinarily have gone on, but I couldn't let the 'double standard' thing lie, and I conner do with folk telling others what they can or can't say. Your interesting OP about player ability was just a thinly vieled 'shut up' in my eyes, and I disagree with it. quote] "If I call a player on here "shit" what'll happen"? "At the match it's different" These are two standards In my mind it is wrong to use the adjective "shit" to describe any individual whether it's on the oatcake or at the match. I am not a prude and I'm not an OAP. we'll have to agree to disagree! |
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Post by bornscfcdiescfc on Aug 27, 2015 19:51:50 GMT
For a keeper..they want footballers ...spoken to loads of scouts...like rocking horse shit they are
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2015 19:55:36 GMT
Body size and shape shouldn't come into it depending on the age of the player. Many young players are late physical developers and I dread to think the amount of top class footballers our 'professional' clubs have tossed aside due to their size.
For me it's all about intelligence. Does a player make the right runs, pick the right pass and make the right decision? If he makes a mistake, and i'm sure they all do, do they learn from it?
Too many clubs coach players to play systems to get results when they should be coaching them to think for themselves.
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 27, 2015 19:59:43 GMT
Why are you obsessed with Glenn, are you Glenn, Glenn? |
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Post by ohbottom on Aug 27, 2015 20:03:50 GMT
Slugs
Snails
Puppy dog's tails
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 27, 2015 20:04:49 GMT
A very good player for me is one that's quick, strong, determined, technically good and a good on field attitude (will to win).
I couldn't give two shits what they do off the pitch it's their time, as long as they do it on the pitch.
Some positions require a different skill set to others so it's difficult to say, as a team a good balance is good imo
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 27, 2015 20:08:41 GMT
In my time I have been privelidged to work with some very good players. I have also had to watch many games looking for good talent. If I was asked what qualities make a player a good player, I would list these things:- Athleticism ( Good body shape and size, pace, stamina and strength) Good Technical Ability ( Good control, manipulates the ball well, passes and heads the ball well) Good Vision Brave Determined Disciplined Confident By the time players make the first team squads of Premier League Clubs you can almost guarantee that the players will have the first six of the list in abundance. Believe me it's a long hard journey. The one quality that does affect performance the most though is the last one. During a season a players performance can fluctuate so much through a loss of confidence. It happens with strikers especially but also with defenders. It is amazing to read through "Stoke Supporters" posts on this site and see what a great job they do of undermining many of Stoke's squad. I am sure that players are advised not to look at forums! Wollshied, Afellay, Van Ginkel, etc need our love not to be constantly labelled as excrement. They do not need to be scorned and ridiculed. Arnautovic is a great example of the way confidence can affect performance. Get behind someone like Wollshied and encourage him and you may see a new player emerge! As with all scouts and Coaches I have spent time working with Athleticism is top of the list number one priority, you know this yourself all the other attributes are a wish list when scouting, attitude and determination are essential in all players, a good coach can bring out the best of a player to a certain extent, one of the best I have seen at junior level was Noel Blake, Pej was pretty good the worst I have seen at Stoke was Leighton closely followed by Sinclair. Due to the athleticism criteria I believe that Wolfy will never cut it in the PL, not his fault but whoever scouted him needs to go to Spec savers he simply does not possess the basic ingredients required at PL standard, we need to replace him as soon as possible there was a reason Hughes dropped him at the end of last season, I thought he had seen enough to conclude that he was not up to the job I was astounded when he signed him permanently. I will be amazed if he ever gets to the standard needed at this level for me he is a very poor replacement for Huth . |
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Post by foster on Aug 27, 2015 20:13:49 GMT
Just take the components from championship manager (game).
If I picked 3 I'd go athleticism, technical ability and power.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 27, 2015 20:14:26 GMT
Body size and shape shouldn't come into it depending on the age of the player. Many young players are late physical developers and I dread to think the amount of top class footballers our 'professional' clubs have tossed aside due to their size. For me it's all about intelligence. Does a player make the right runs, pick the right pass and make the right decision? If he makes a mistake, and i'm sure they all do, do they learn from it? Too many clubs coach players to play systems to get results when they should be coaching them to think for themselves. Unfortunately many clubs in this country are obsessed with size, players are discarded due to lack of height at a tender age damaging their self esteem, many drop out of the game altogether Silverdollar should back me on this one, good post  skill is pretty much coached out of them at an early age no wonder our National football team is so predictable and one dimensional. |
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Post by st4scfc on Aug 27, 2015 20:20:27 GMT
Every component that Glenn Whelan possesses.  |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Aug 27, 2015 20:24:48 GMT
We could go around in circles on this, I don't get where my double standards are, you've just chucked that into the mix from nowhere. Would you discourage women and children from going to the match just in case they hear the shit word? I don't get your point at all. I'm not condoning wanton player abuse, I'm advocating freedom of speech and a bit of banter on a messageboard. I wouldn't ordinarily have gone on, but I couldn't let the 'double standard' thing lie, and I conner do with folk telling others what they can or can't say. Your interesting OP about player ability was just a thinly vieled 'shut up' in my eyes, and I disagree with it. quote] "If I call a player on here "shit" what'll happen"? "At the match it's different" These are two standards In my mind it is wrong to use the adjective "shit" to describe any individual whether it's on the oatcake or at the match. I am not a prude and I'm not an OAP. we'll have to agree to disagree! Selective quoting at it's best/worst. Top marks for misconstruing my post. I was describing the reality, that's all. It's a different vibe at the match than on here. |
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 27, 2015 20:29:17 GMT
I am no expert on this subject, but it does surprise me that Wollsheid is heavily criticised by Oatcake posters not just for his performances but even for his appearance and the way he runs. The guy has played for Germany, he has been scouted, trialled for almost half a season, and signed, but Oatcake posters still abuse him and question MH & Co.'s judgement.
I have no problem with constructive criticism and stated myself on here that I'd preferred we had kept Huth and waited to find some one better. However I think some of the abuse he receives is OTT and simply displays ignorance and ill manners.
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skill is pretty much coached out of them at an early age no wonder our National football team is so predictable and one dimensional. 
