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Post by sheriff on Aug 1, 2015 9:13:11 GMT
Gascoigne is an incredibly overrated footballer, imo, compared with his actual accomplishments. The hype he gets would be the equivalent of Argentinians raving consistently about Ortega, or Aimar or Riquelme and the likes - players tipped for far greater things than they accomplished. Even in Brazil, players like Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaka and the likes don't recieve the kind of saintly adulation that Gazza gets in England. I wouldn't know whether it's because British football is traditionally lacking in flair players and the few like Gascoigne that are produced get hyped to insane levels. Or whether its because he drove England to a very rare World Cup semis in the most defensive, boring tournament in history (in everywhere, but England).
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Post by newsteadst3 on Aug 1, 2015 9:36:22 GMT
After the age of 24 he was average in my opinion, barring a decent season in Scotland, that goal v Scotland Papered over the cracks in euro 96, although his last decent game at the top level was his performance in the first half v Italy in 97 i thought.
Want a comparison .....he's the same age as roberto baggio
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 10:21:59 GMT
I think the adulation of Gazza is not just him as a footy player ( Average ) but as a bloke, though he has since well and truly fallen off the rails, who amongst his team mates did we adore, Robson, No, Hoddle, No, Seaman, No, all contributed massively to our modest hey day, but never adored the same as our very own Gazza.. Bit like George Best..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 10:36:38 GMT
Yep English. Somebody name one please! Shearer? Scholes? Beckham? Gerrard? Lampard? Terry? None of these had the flair talent of Gascoine, all great players but not the style or flair. George Best had the same flair as did Pele and Maradona. Simply a joy to watch BTW have we been linked to him
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Post by miltonstokie on Aug 1, 2015 10:37:14 GMT
Cant do links as I'm on my phone , but the new Gascoigne film is available on you tube. Good watch
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 1, 2015 10:58:26 GMT
Shearer? Scholes? Beckham? Gerrard? Lampard? Terry? He's talking about natural ability on the ball. Obviously none of those come close to Gascoigne in that respect. Scholes does, and Shearer was as good a finisher as anyone. Rooney was also every bit the player Gascoigne was when he first burst on to the scene, and like Gazza never quite lived up to it. Gazza was brilliant but there is a tendency to overhype him because of the 'what if'.
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Post by mattador78 on Aug 1, 2015 11:04:15 GMT
Gascoigne is an incredibly overrated footballer, imo, compared with his actual accomplishments. The hype he gets would be the equivalent of Argentinians raving consistently about Ortega, or Aimar or Riquelme and the likes - players tipped for far greater things than they accomplished. Even in Brazil, players like Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaka and the likes don't recieve the kind of saintly adulation that Gazza gets in England. I wouldn't know whether it's because British football is traditionally lacking in flair players and the few like Gascoigne that are produced get hyped to insane levels. Or whether its because he drove England to a very rare World Cup semis in the most defensive, boring tournament in history (in everywhere, but England). Ask Lazio what they thought of him?injury blighted his career which gave him too much time on his hands to mess things up all the talent lacked the mentality but most genius's are flawed , best drink,maradona drugs, Pelé erectile dysfunction, the list can go on many fufill many fail , all we can do is enjoy them while we can.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 11:05:48 GMT
He should have gone to Man United Joe. Fergie would have let him express the talent but at least tried to give him the discipline he needed. Why has there not been such a naturally talented player since? Was he just a one off? wayne rooney had a similar natural,raw talent until Fergie got hold of him and that instilling of discipline in him is what knocked all of that raw talent out of him unfortunately.would give anything to have the "everton rooney" in the england setup nowadays
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Post by outspaced on Aug 1, 2015 11:24:56 GMT
Interesting stuff for sure. Le Tissier is a good shout for that type of player. He'd never get near the Prem now though with his languid laid back style. But he was very good in an average team.
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Post by beanthedogscfc on Aug 1, 2015 19:06:59 GMT
Gazza was my idol when growing up. The only England player that I've seen to have a ounce of the raw talent and close control and skill was a very young Joe Cole before Mourinho beat it out of him.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Aug 1, 2015 19:11:12 GMT
He's talking about natural ability on the ball. Obviously none of those come close to Gascoigne in that respect. Scholes does, and Shearer was as good a finisher as anyone. Rooney was also every bit the player Gascoigne was when he first burst on to the scene, and like Gazza never quite lived up to it. Gazza was brilliant but there is a tendency to overhype him because of the 'what if'. Rooney is no where near the talent that Gazza was.
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 2, 2015 0:21:59 GMT
I disagree with the notion coaching is negative. What's needed is the right coaching. I'm certainly not saying coaching is a negative thing. I just get the impression that the modern game is so fine-tuned towards athleticism, economy of movement, formations, inch-perfect team passing etc that there is less and less room for the flawed individual genius. Would a chubby, ill-disciplined, wayward kid like Gazza (or Le Tissier, or Hoddle, or Hudson or Best for that matter) even make it through all the stages of youth/academy development to the first team of a top-flight club nowadays? I'm not convinced he would. Maybe I'm just being misty-eyed, I dunno. Le Tissier is a prime example of a player who developed in the wrong way. For all his brilliance there was big flaws in his game.
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Post by bertiestan on Aug 2, 2015 0:40:08 GMT
Gazza was my idol when growing up. The only England player that I've seen to have a ounce of the raw talent and close control and skill was a very young Joe Cole before Mourinho beat it out of him. Beat me to it mate, a young joe cole is about as close as we've got to gazza
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 2, 2015 0:43:54 GMT
I tend to think his legend is viewed through misty eyed nostalgia.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 2, 2015 1:10:59 GMT
I'm certainly not saying coaching is a negative thing. I just get the impression that the modern game is so fine-tuned towards athleticism, economy of movement, formations, inch-perfect team passing etc that there is less and less room for the flawed individual genius. Would a chubby, ill-disciplined, wayward kid like Gazza (or Le Tissier, or Hoddle, or Hudson or Best for that matter) even make it through all the stages of youth/academy development to the first team of a top-flight club nowadays? I'm not convinced he would. Maybe I'm just being misty-eyed, I dunno. Le Tissier is a prime example of a player who developed in the wrong way. For all his brilliance there was big flaws in his game. Depends what you mean by "wrong". I'm sure with more rigorous coaching he could have become fitter, more disciplined, a better decision-maker, probably more "effective". But do you think his individual brilliance would have shone through in the modern game in the way that it did when he was playing?
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Aug 2, 2015 1:26:55 GMT
Am I the only one who thought this was an RIP thread before I opened it?
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Post by potbank on Aug 2, 2015 7:30:22 GMT
Certain players cannot be "coached" in my opinion....Georgie Best, Gazza, Alan Hudson and Cantona....natural talent that was utter joy to watch, and I've seen all of these four play. The night at Wembley in 96 when we beat Holland in the Euros was Gazza pulling the strings...immense performance...England do not have that luxury anymore.
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 2, 2015 11:19:19 GMT
Le Tissier is a prime example of a player who developed in the wrong way. For all his brilliance there was big flaws in his game. Depends what you mean by "wrong". I'm sure with more rigorous coaching he could have become fitter, more disciplined, a better decision-maker, probably more "effective". But do you think his individual brilliance would have shone through in the modern game in the way that it did when he was playing? No reason why it shouldn't have. Other nations have great players who play with discipline. Why is it in England there is a view skillful players can't be disciplined too.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 2, 2015 11:27:37 GMT
After the age of 24 he was average in my opinion, barring a decent season in Scotland, that goal v Scotland Papered over the cracks in euro 96, although his last decent game at the top level was his performance in the first half v Italy in 97 i thought. Want a comparison .....he's the same age as roberto baggio Think you've called his career spot on. I saw him playing for Rangers in the Old Firm games up here at Celtic Park and he was just superb. The only player I've seen who could control the pace of an Old Firm game. He was a class above everyone else on the park. But that was when Rangers were bossing Celtic - as soon as Celtic came back he faded very fast. That brief Indian Summer he had in Scotland came to an abrupt end. His career came down to some sparkling moments - nothing sustained. Just hints of what he might have been and never was. And that was down to him. No one else.
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 2, 2015 12:03:56 GMT
After the age of 24 he was average in my opinion, barring a decent season in Scotland, that goal v Scotland Papered over the cracks in euro 96, although his last decent game at the top level was his performance in the first half v Italy in 97 i thought. Want a comparison .....he's the same age as roberto baggio Think you've called his career spot on. I saw him playing for Rangers in the Old Firm games up here at Celtic Park and he was just superb. The only player I've seen who could control the pace of an Old Firm game. He was a class above everyone else on the park. But that was when Rangers were bossing Celtic - as soon as Celtic came back he faded very fast. That brief Indian Summer he had in Scotland came to an abrupt end. His career came down to some sparkling moments - nothing sustained. Just hints of what he might have been and never was. And that was down to him. No one else. He never was the same after the 1991 FA Cup final.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 2, 2015 13:39:07 GMT
Think you've called his career spot on. I saw him playing for Rangers in the Old Firm games up here at Celtic Park and he was just superb. The only player I've seen who could control the pace of an Old Firm game. He was a class above everyone else on the park. But that was when Rangers were bossing Celtic - as soon as Celtic came back he faded very fast. That brief Indian Summer he had in Scotland came to an abrupt end. His career came down to some sparkling moments - nothing sustained. Just hints of what he might have been and never was. And that was down to him. No one else. He never was the same after the 1991 FA Cup final. Generally just flashes after that - but for much of the seasons either side of Euro 96 he was consistently excellent. That's when I saw him bossing Celtic around at Paradise. It was a privilege to watch him play (and I'm on the green half of Glasgow when it comes to football). The only other player I've seen control the pace of a game so well was my boyhood hero Alan Hudson.
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 2, 2015 13:47:57 GMT
He's talking about natural ability on the ball. Obviously none of those come close to Gascoigne in that respect. Scholes does, and Shearer was as good a finisher as anyone. Rooney was also every bit the player Gascoigne was when he first burst on to the scene, and like Gazza never quite lived up to it. Gazza was brilliant but there is a tendency to overhype him because of the 'what if'. I disagree about Rooney. He hasn't performed for England in tournaments but to say he hasn't lived up to his promise is harsh.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 2, 2015 14:04:52 GMT
Depends what you mean by "wrong". I'm sure with more rigorous coaching he could have become fitter, more disciplined, a better decision-maker, probably more "effective". But do you think his individual brilliance would have shone through in the modern game in the way that it did when he was playing? No reason why it shouldn't have. Other nations have great players who play with discipline. Why is it in England there is a view skillful players can't be disciplined too. I'm not just talking about "great players", I just think there is a particular type of effortless individual flair which there may be less room for in the modern game - and not just in England.
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 2, 2015 14:12:51 GMT
No reason why it shouldn't have. Other nations have great players who play with discipline. Why is it in England there is a view skillful players can't be disciplined too. I'm not just talking about "great players", I just think there is a particular type of effortless individual flair which there may be less room for in the modern game - and not just in England. Plenty of players have that special tslent. To get the most from it a player has to apply themself and be aware of all aspects of the game. It's always been the case too.
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 2, 2015 15:26:02 GMT
Scholes does, and Shearer was as good a finisher as anyone. Rooney was also every bit the player Gascoigne was when he first burst on to the scene, and like Gazza never quite lived up to it. Gazza was brilliant but there is a tendency to overhype him because of the 'what if'. I disagree about Rooney. He hasn't performed for England in tournaments but to say he hasn't lived up to his promise is harsh. When he scored a hat trick on his debut for Man Utd he was being talked about as the best talent England had ever seen. He has had a glittering career but he fell short of the early promise.
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Post by JoeinOz on Aug 2, 2015 15:45:28 GMT
I disagree about Rooney. He hasn't performed for England in tournaments but to say he hasn't lived up to his promise is harsh. When he scored a hat trick on his debut for Man Utd he was being talked about as the best talent England had ever seen. He has had a glittering career but he fell short of the early promise. We shall just have to agree to disagree.
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