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Post by wuzza on Jul 3, 2015 8:17:05 GMT
Thats ridiculous Pugs - it's about players 'knowing their place' and the moment we start prostrating ourselves in front of big names hoping they may deign to sign for us is the moment we start heading for the Championship!
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Post by enuntio on Jul 3, 2015 8:23:25 GMT
These individual player transfer threads are almost embarrassing. Xherdan will not sign and has absolutely no intention in doing so (see Kono thread for the same outcome). If an offer is made and accepted, we need to give the player a deadline for their signature. Otherwise we end up looking silly. My Dad always used to say 'don't let the tail wag the dog '. SCFC are bigger than any player and I'm confident that we'll add real quality. There's a bit of a pattern happening here folks...signings that are in the press (and on here) are not happening. Those that are under the radar,are. This quite clearly shows that all the 'in the know' ramblings on here are complete bollocks, as is all the Twitter shite. I'll take a wild guess and say that our next signing will not have 240 odd pages of speculation before a deal is agreed by all parties. A little harmless speculation and tittilation never hurt anyone too much, it is the close season after all ;-)
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jul 3, 2015 8:25:44 GMT
Thats ridiculous Pugs - it's about players 'knowing their place' and the moment we start prostrating ourselves in front of big names hoping they may deign to sign for us is the moment we start heading for the Championship! Yes, can you imagine 'Kono' and 'Shaq' hearing 'Carto' and 'Scholesy' telling them they're the Alan Sugars of football! We're going to the 'next level', we've organised the magic carpet!
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Post by wuzza on Jul 3, 2015 8:30:00 GMT
Players can be told who we are and what we are trying to achieve. We will pay them an excellent salary. If they have the vision to see how it would benefit them and they want to be a part of it great if they aren't so keen then fine we all move on. It's really quite simple however much you want to try and complicate issues.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 3, 2015 8:35:53 GMT
Thats ridiculous Pugs - it's about players 'knowing their place' and the moment we start prostrating ourselves in front of big names hoping they may deign to sign for us is the moment we start heading for the Championship! Well I disagree. Signing Bojan is an indication of what can be done. We need to get one or two of these over the line, improve our team, move up the league a couple of places and challenge for a European place. Then we might be able to dictate terms a bit more. If you want these players then you're going to have to dance to their tune for a bit. If you don't like it then we'll have to lower our sights. We then run the risk of losing our existing star players, and eventually the manager. I'm convinced we have some fans who would be happier back in the Championship competing for nothing. Not saying that's you mate but they're out there. We've already blown once chance of progression, shall we do it again?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2015 8:36:17 GMT
If we give these players deadlines they will walk away anyway. We're dealing with mega money superstar game changers here, who hold all the aces, and not Paul Williams in last chance saloon on a free. We have to dance the dance and play the game. Sorry but I don't agree mate. If we would have put deadlines on the Kono deal, we would have achieved exactly the same outcome but sooner. It also sends a clear message to agents and players. he's absolutely right though mate.the way you describe it working is fine for the transfers we did in the past but not anymore for the quality of player we're after.even when the likes of Man utd. try to sign big name up and comers they regularly have to play a waiting game...it's the way it goes because the players we're after are also being courted by other clubs as well.play ot your way and we'll only be bringing in players from the lower end of the Prem or below,we 100% won't get the players we need to progress!!! I would also venture a guess that when your dad gave you that advice he wasn't advising on Premier league transfers! It may not be the way you like it but regardless of that,we're in the Prem and pushing on so that's the way it is.accept it cos it ain't gonna change. in terms of the thread title,i suggest it's you that needs to wake up and realise that this isn't 1995 anymore,we're not in the lower leagues anymore and if you want to progress and challenge for quality players then this is just the game we HAVE to play.if you want to carry on dreaming about only signing players that REALLY want to be here then we can look forward to relegation within the next 2 years as those players will be coming from teams like middlesbrough,notts forest at best
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Post by Davef on Jul 3, 2015 8:53:29 GMT
The only people who need to wake up are those who post ridiculous messages about deals being done when they are clearly far from it and the people who believe them.
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jul 3, 2015 8:53:26 GMT
Thats ridiculous Pugs - it's about players 'knowing their place' and the moment we start prostrating ourselves in front of big names hoping they may deign to sign for us is the moment we start heading for the Championship! Well I disagree. Â Signing Bojan is an indication of what can be done. We need to get one or two of these over the line, improve our team, move up the league a couple of places and challenge for a European place. Â Then we might be able to dictate terms a bit more. Â If you want these players then you're going to have to dance to their tune for a bit. Â If you don't like it then we'll have to lower our sights. Â We then run the risk of losing our existing star players, and eventually the manager. I'm convinced we have some fans who would be happier back in the Championship competing for nothing. Not saying that's you mate but they're out there. Â We've already blown once chance of progression, shall we do it again? You've posted some garbage this morning Pugs.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 3, 2015 8:53:52 GMT
I think the options are summed up pretty well but the concern is, as you point out, our approach will fail most of the time so what's option 3b, the back up plan? There doesn't seem to be an obvious coherent one in place. To some extent we don't need much of a plan B, Sheikh. When it comes to the top targets each season, Hughes will have an idea of the calibre of player he wants and he'll try to tempt players of around that calibre. We'll, hopefully, strike lucky with one or two each season. Concurrently with that we are also targeting more attainable players such as Joselu who may, or may not become top players in time. We'll also be alive to loans such as Moses last season - and the ones we are discussing as part of the Bego deal with Chelsea. It all looks a bit messy to the outsider - but 54 points and consecutive top half finishes suggest it is working so far. I think we will need bodies at some stage forny, with the predicted departures. The two domestic loans are going to be massively important it seems.
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pumper
Academy Starlet
"jus pumpin' abite"
Posts: 112
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Post by pumper on Jul 3, 2015 9:01:34 GMT
does anyone have a clue? dunner seem like it does it...
oh well...
super jon contract extension anyone?
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 3, 2015 9:06:14 GMT
Well I disagree. Signing Bojan is an indication of what can be done. We need to get one or two of these over the line, improve our team, move up the league a couple of places and challenge for a European place. Then we might be able to dictate terms a bit more. If you want these players then you're going to have to dance to their tune for a bit. If you don't like it then we'll have to lower our sights. We then run the risk of losing our existing star players, and eventually the manager. I'm convinced we have some fans who would be happier back in the Championship competing for nothing. Not saying that's you mate but they're out there. We've already blown once chance of progression, shall we do it again? You've posted some garbage this morning Pugs. Really? Cheers, I aim to please.
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Post by baystokie on Jul 3, 2015 9:10:01 GMT
We had the same cynicism and negativity as the original post when Bojan was deciding his future this time last year. If we had put in a short deadline then, as many on here were suggesting, he'd probably have gone elsewhere. Cilla is right - and we will probably find this sort of frustration to our deals until we can either offer Europe or a track record of success which is better than what we currently have. We are already used to seeing our teams fighting above their weight - if we wish to improve our position from top half towards top 6 then we need better players. There are three ways we can try to get the better players we need and only two of them are valid options: 1. get them young and improve them (signs that recruitment team and the academy staff are trying to do that) but it will inevitably take time. 2. Offer silly money beyond our means. We are not going to do that - we'll push the envelope but not so much that we'll put our future at risk. 3. Offer the best deal we can afford, to players who may or may not take those deals, depending upon whether they or their agents buy into what Mark Hughes and the club are trying to do. This will end in disappointment sometimes (probably most times) but the odd gems that we do succeed with, should help push us on to the next level. The original poster is really suggesting that we should give up on option 3. Some posters are even suggesting we should try option 2. I really couldn't disagree with either point of view more than I do! I think the options are summed up pretty well but the concern is, as you point out, our approach will fail most of the time so what's option 3b, the back up plan? There doesn't seem to be an obvious coherent one in place. Maybe a 'coherent back up plan' should NOT be obvious (except to those executing it)? 'Under the radar' and all that!
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Jul 3, 2015 9:22:11 GMT
You've posted some garbage this morning Pugs. Really? Â Cheers, I aim to please. I honestly do not believe that any of our supporters would like to see us relegated mate.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 3, 2015 9:36:47 GMT
Really? Cheers, I aim to please. I honestly do not believe that any of our supporters would like to see us relegated mate. Maybe, but there are some who were more content in the lower leagues.
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Post by Miles Offside on Jul 3, 2015 9:41:26 GMT
I honestly do not believe that any of our supporters would like to see us relegated mate. Maybe, but there are some who were more content in the lower leagues. I blame the bloke who got us into the top league.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Jul 3, 2015 9:41:32 GMT
I honestly do not believe that any of our supporters would like to see us relegated mate. Maybe, but there are some who were more content in the lower leagues. More content? And they'd rather be back at Wycombe away on a wet Saturday afternoon? Get real.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 3, 2015 9:45:09 GMT
Maybe, but there are some who were more content in the lower leagues. More content? And they'd rather be back at Wycombe away on a wet Saturday afternoon? Get real. Good strip joint on the way to the Wycombe away end
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Jul 3, 2015 9:47:20 GMT
We're now beginning the quest to step up the quality of player in our squad, so therefore patience and a lot of time is required when negotiating with them, as they'll have a number of options on the table, it's not as simple as setting them a deadline, as they'll just see us as impatient pricks and go to one of the other clubs on the table.
If we only dealt with players who jumped at the opportunity to sign for us then we'd go absolutely nowhere, it's why Hughesy and the transfer team get paid what they do, to sell the club and the ambition of it to a higher calibre of player, Bojan for example, alls it takes is one of these transfers to go over the line, then more elite players will begin to take notice and think perhaps Stoke City are a club on the up and I need to sign for them.
Plus when you're after high level players it's almost par for the course that any interest is leaked to the press, these players are known around the world, so agents will be hawking them out to whoever can offer the best deal.
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Post by wuzza on Jul 3, 2015 9:48:04 GMT
Surely the best example is Muni - at the biggest club going but with no fuss or tarting about listened to what was on offer and bought into it. I'm sure he would have had some alternatives. This to me is the way forward, ambitious but without the hulabaloo of trying to sign players who feel they are already established and above us (which they may well be).
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 3, 2015 9:48:30 GMT
Maybe, but there are some who were more content in the lower leagues. I blame the bloke who got us into the top league. Why blame anyone at all, certainly not Peter Coates.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jul 3, 2015 10:06:12 GMT
You don't ask, you don't get. I'd rather aim high and fail 50 times to sign one of these players rather than go straight for Michael Fucking Kightly; who we can all applaud as "wanting to sign for Stoke" and praise Hughes for "looking at players at our level".
As long as there are backup players in place (and I see no reason to suggest there won't be) then I'm delighted that we're showing some bollocks rather than fannying around like limp-dicked weaklings, knowing our place and just being grateful that we're allowed to play in the Prem.
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 3, 2015 10:09:36 GMT
You don't ask, you don't get. I'd rather aim high and fail 50 times to sign one of these players rather than go straight for Michael Fucking Kightly; who we can all applaud as "wanting to sign for Stoke" and praise Hughes for "looking at players at our level". As long as there are backup players in place (and I see no reason to suggest there won't be) then I'm delighted that we're showing some bollocks rather than fannying around like limp-dicked weaklings, knowing our place and just being grateful that we're allowed to play in the Prem. Tut tut tut, know your place.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 3, 2015 10:12:55 GMT
Surely the best example is Muni - at the biggest club going but with no fuss or tarting about listened to what was on offer and bought into it. I'm sure he would have had some alternatives. This to me is the way forward, ambitious but without the hulabaloo of trying to sign players who feel they are already established and above us (which they may well be). So you're just going to ignore Bojan then? His transfer dragged on for weeks. Even though there was only a couple of other clubs in for him, we had to give him plenty of time to make a decision. If we'd have given him a deadline, we would have run the UNECESSARY risk of missing out on his signature. Which would have just been plain stupid.
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 3, 2015 10:25:42 GMT
I think we are all disappointed at the way recent events have unfolded, but IMO we have to be patient with the club owners and managers who are clearly striving to lift the club to a higher place in world football.
They have been very successful in bringing in a better quality of player, very economically, during the last 2 years and now want to make that next move up to European football. This is not going to be easy. Stoke have a huge credibility gap to overcome to attract top class players and to keep the likes of Begovic.
Until Stoke actually get into Europe, they will always be in a difficult negotiating position and have little leverage in negotiations. They are quite correct to say nothing officially, so unfortunately we have to put up with the machinations of unscrupulous agents manipulating the media to maximise their ends.
I am frustrated by the endless threads, but far from embarrassed as I am confident my club is progressing and going places. I'd much sooner put up with these threads than wait till the last 48 hours of the transfer window to see who we can pick up on the cheap, that no one else wants, and strive for 40 points all season with 10 man defences.
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Post by Skankmonkey on Jul 3, 2015 10:29:26 GMT
Wake up The wage budget is being reduced and the first team from last year, who finished 9th , wont get us relegated.so the focus is on the under 21s. To feed the first team in the next season or so I wouldnt be surprised if joselu is it. We can take an emergency goal keeper. Then it just maybe a replacement if Nzonzi does leave.we know we need better on the right.i cant see it. The wing players diouf arnie walters odemwingie and moha after christmas. I hope not mate. Sounds too much like Coatesy Mk1. I'm depressed enough this morning. <smileystokey measuring a length of rope>
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Post by wuzza on Jul 3, 2015 10:30:12 GMT
I don't think Bojan had a massive amount of alternatives - the main competition appeared to be a club heading towards relegation and bankruptcy - but more significantly we had his pal here already. Without that I'm fairly convinced we would have lost out there too. We should offer good terms and lay out a vision of the future for both player and club. It really shouldn't take that long for the party concerned to then give an answer - if we are making the right proposals to the right players.
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Post by Skankmonkey on Jul 3, 2015 10:35:26 GMT
Well i feel depressed. I admit i got carried away with the whole saga's and now i'm told Shaqiri will not sign. This was like the time father told me infront of mother he was taking me to a new tea room which had just opened and was amazing but he actually took me a pub. I thought i was going to have a lovely pot of tea and a scone but i had to tell mother ( with my fingers crossed) how much i enjoyed this new tea room. In other words i feel deflated. I know exactly what you mean,Fathers can fuck you right up can't they Colin. Yours took you to a pub instead of a nice tea room and mine used to punch and kick me and my brothers until we got big enough to punch the cunt back. Parents eh? Sympathies mate, sounds bad. "Parents f**k you up. They don't mean to, but they do". may not be the whole story for many.
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Post by realstokebloke on Jul 3, 2015 10:35:34 GMT
For the first time under hughes we are struggling to attract our number one targets, reason being that we are after that next level player such as Kono, Shaqiri but we are just not in that pond of players yet, more the moses and Lennon bracket really which would for me improve us but we are not a Spurs/Lpool yet and for me far from it. We did get that little gem Bojan which was incredible and I think we should go to Barca and try and get a fringe player from there, Roberto maybe but I think that one is a pipe dream. I trust Hughes 100% and there is almost two months to get some decent quality to add to what we have and replace outgoing players so not panicking just yet. Agree with that Cilla, albeit, if you work hard enough at it, you make your own luck.
In other words, one (or rather, another one after Bojan) will come off.
Got to applaud the club for the ambition.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 3, 2015 10:52:22 GMT
I am frustrated by the endless threads, but far from embarrassed as I am confident my club is progressing and going places. I'd much sooner put up with these threads than wait till the last 48 hours of the transfer window to see who we can pick up on the cheap, that no one else wants, and strive for 40 points all season with 10 man defences. It's easy to make but the transfers made by the old regime made up 2/3 of last years best eleven!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2015 11:04:03 GMT
I don't think Bojan had a massive amount of alternatives - the main competition appeared to be a club heading towards relegation and bankruptcy - but more significantly we had his pal here already. Without that I'm fairly convinced we would have lost out there too. We should offer good terms and lay out a vision of the future for both player and club. It really shouldn't take that long for the party concerned to then give an answer - if we are making the right proposals to the right players. but the players we're in for are now the kinds of players that clubs like everton,sevilla etc. are also in for.anyone who thinks "offer a player the package,if they're not happy then fuck 'em and move on" has either never seen any Premiership transfers or is happy to only sign championship quality players....it just DOESN'T happen like that!!!!!! Finding youngsters like Muni who eventually turn out to be damn good but no-one else really wants and you can sign for peanuts are ridiculously rare finds...there is NO way a club can hope to live on just those kind of signings. some on here need to realise it's 2015 in the Prem (not 1995 in the shit leagues) and John Lennon's vision of the world being a lovely,friendly place where everyone's ideals were realised didn't actually fucking come to fruition! Really don't know what shit some on here have been smoking to be honest.....
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