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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 9:21:21 GMT
You see it get argued in lots of different threads about how much money is available to Hughes, what we are willing to spend etc. Some people are saying we need to sign some big players in the summer and to an extent I'd agree but based on the signings made in 2014/15 by the premier league clubs you'd say that on the whole a low spending policy is definitely the best for a mid table club, especially one which is in our relatively stable position...
Here are a few of the more expensive players signed by mid table and lower table clubs this year...
Abel Hernandez: 12 million
Jake Livermore: 10.1 million
Leroy Fer: 10 million
Forster: 12 million
Long: 15 million
Rodwell: 12.6 million
Brown Ideye: 12.6 million
Enner Valencia: 15 million
Caulker: 10 million
Kramaric: 11.7 million
McArthur: 9 million
Here are some of the biggest success stories from the low-mid table clubs however...
Bojan: 500K
Sakho: 4 million
Diouf: free
Mane: 9 million
Cresswell: 2.5 million
Gomis: free
Pantilimon: free
Janmaat: 7.5 million
Ayoze Perez: 2.2 million
Cambiasso: free
Diame: 4.5 million
Besic: 5 million
What this suggests to me is that for clubs in our position more-or-less every signing we make will be a gamble and we should continue with our current policy of buying younger players with a bit of potential, trying to sign people whose contracts are expiring and signing those who play for a big club but might go a bit cheaper as they're not too close to first team action or (like Bojan and Muni) are seen as surplus to requirements after a promising initial period at their previous club.
For a newly promoted club an expensive signing like our acquisition of Crouch or Beattie makes a lot of sense as ultimately you might be paying somewhat over the odds for the player you're getting but you know he will do a job for you. Personally I feel like where we are in the premier league means we're not looking for that sort of signing now as we have a solid squad of premier league players, what we need to expand is someone with more quality or a rising younger star and here's the kicker...
There's not been a single player bought this season in my opinion in that 10+ price range by a club outside of the top 4 that would even get into our starting XI right now, and this is considering I can't think of a player in our starting squad that cost more then 4 million. The only exception to this I could think of would be Gylfi Sigurdsson who I can't find a price for but I imagine he would've costed in that 10 mill price bracket.
Price is no guarantee of quality, and the signings we have seen this season back that up completely. The policy we have right now is, in my opinion the best one that we can have. It'd be brilliant if we signed someone expensive and they turned out to be amazing but are you going to be disappointed if we again spend relatively little this summer? From what I've seen people seem to think they'd be very gutted if Stoke didn't cough up for at-least one or two players this summer.
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Post by foster on May 27, 2015 9:25:48 GMT
Not sure you needed to spell it out mate, but pretty much what you're saying is to exercise common sense.
You can add Huth on loan to that bottom list as well.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2015 9:26:39 GMT
It depends entirely on who is bought.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 27, 2015 9:28:06 GMT
It would be criminal to fail to significantly back Hughes now. Criminal, negligent and dangerous in terms of his long term future at the club.
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Post by stokiejoe on May 27, 2015 9:29:27 GMT
It depends entirely on who is bought. Exactly. We need quality to fit first 11. Price is incedental. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 9:30:15 GMT
It would be criminal to fail to significantly back Hughes now. Criminal, negligent and dangerous in terms of his long term future at the club. What does that mean though, I made this thread because people keep coming out with lines like that but why spend 10+ million on a player for the sake of it. Because that's what it seems like you're suggesting, Hughes hasn't once complained about not being able to get the means to sign his targets so what is this issue you're creating? Not sure you needed to spell it out mate, but pretty much what you're saying is to exercise common sense. You can add Huth on loan to that bottom list as well. I'm not trying to analyse anything particularly... I'm just trying to point out what is blatantly there. The manager is happy, he hasn't complained once about not being backed yet people insist we spend big this summer but there doesn't seem to be logic behind it. |
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Post by sufolkstokie on May 27, 2015 9:44:08 GMT
The strategy is very clear
No more squad fillers. First team players only, which will cost. Mr Hughes himself stated that the Bojan's of this world are very rare deals.
Then boost the future, as we are doing by bring in talented youngsters
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Post by foster on May 27, 2015 9:46:53 GMT
It would be criminal to fail to significantly back Hughes now. Criminal, negligent and dangerous in terms of his long term future at the club. What does that fucking mean though, I made this thread because people keep coming out with lines like that but why spend 10+ million on a player for the sake of it. Because that's what it seems like you're suggesting, Hughes hasn't once complained about not being able to get the means to sign his targets so what is this issue you're creating? I think he just missed your point. This being that yes, the club should back Hughes IF required to make the right signings at the right price. Could be up to 20m+ which is not an issue providing the deals are good (and give us resale value). What is important though is not to waste money just because it's available. To be honest, I think Hughes has had backing from day 1. He's just made some excellent deals and hasn't been wasteful. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 9:50:10 GMT
What does that fucking mean though, I made this thread because people keep coming out with lines like that but why spend 10+ million on a player for the sake of it. Because that's what it seems like you're suggesting, Hughes hasn't once complained about not being able to get the means to sign his targets so what is this issue you're creating? I think he just missed your point. This being that yes, the club should back Hughes IF required to make the right signings at the right price. Could be up to 20m+ which is not an issue providing the deals are good (and give us resale value). What is important though is not to waste money just because it's available. To be honest, I think Hughes has had backing from day 1. He's just made some excellent deals and hasn't been wasteful. Agree completely, christ you're a shitload more concise then me....  |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2015 9:50:38 GMT
The strategy is very clear No more squad fillers. First team players only, which will cost. Mr Hughes himself stated that the Bojan's of this world are very rare deals. Then boost the future, as we are doing by bring in talented youngsters The first signing of the summer is a squad filler...... |
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Post by sufolkstokie on May 27, 2015 9:52:18 GMT
The strategy is very clear No more squad fillers. First team players only, which will cost. Mr Hughes himself stated that the Bojan's of this world are very rare deals. Then boost the future, as we are doing by bring in talented youngsters The first signing of the summer is a squad filler...... Hey up fella - do you ever sleep? Knew you would come back with this - I discount it as he was here already  |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2015 9:53:37 GMT
The first signing of the summer is a squad filler...... Hey up fella - do you ever sleep? Knew you would come back with this - I discount it as he was here already But we didn't need to take the option did we? Especially after seeing him play but then we signed Tex after a month's trial!  |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 9:56:53 GMT
The strategy is very clear No more squad fillers. First team players only, which will cost. Mr Hughes himself stated that the Bojan's of this world are very rare deals. Then boost the future, as we are doing by bring in talented youngsters The first signing of the summer is a squad filler...... I'm convinced that we were already committed to that deal. I hope so, anyway. He's again brought on Wilson ahead of him, at a time when we were under less pressure than we're ever likely to be in a Premier League game. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2015 9:59:00 GMT
The first signing of the summer is a squad filler...... I'm convinced that we were already committed to that deal. I hope so, anyway. He's again brought on Wilson ahead of him, at a time when we were under less pressure than we're ever likely to be in a Premier League game. That's the only reason I can think of why you'd still do it. And that struck me too and the arguments of easing him in etc don't wash, when better than when you're 5-1 up? |
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Post by sufolkstokie on May 27, 2015 9:59:05 GMT
Hey up fella - do you ever sleep? Knew you would come back with this - I discount it as he was here already But we didn't need to take the option did we? Especially after seeing him play but then we signed Tex after a month's trial! Well we know Bowen reads this board and the more I think about it, the more I think they have done it just to wind you up and stop banging on about Wilson |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 10:05:29 GMT
Would not mind us spending 'only' ten million this summer (or less) - it would be on the right players
or - would you rather spunk £25m+ on a player like Lukaku -just as Everton did ?
- fat lot of good it did them eh ?
(still not always just about the money)
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2015 10:06:09 GMT
But we didn't need to take the option did we? Especially after seeing him play but then we signed Tex after a month's trial! Well we know Bowen reads this board and the more I think about it, the more I think they have done it just to wind you up and stop banging on about Wilson Wilson isn't playing (and rightfully so) so that appeases me there. They're only 15 months behind re Muni though!  |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 10:10:42 GMT
Players in positions we need to strengthen are:- (putting sentimentality aside)
and - its a harsh world folks
Wilson, Walters, Whelan, Bardsley, Odemwingie)
tin hat on (doesnt mean the above have to leave either)
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 27, 2015 10:14:05 GMT
It would be criminal to fail to significantly back Hughes now. Criminal, negligent and dangerous in terms of his long term future at the club. What does that mean though, I made this thread because people keep coming out with lines like that but why spend 10+ million on a player for the sake of it. Because that's what it seems like you're suggesting, Hughes hasn't once complained about not being able to get the means to sign his targets so what is this issue you're creating? Not sure you needed to spell it out mate, but pretty much what you're saying is to exercise common sense. You can add Huth on loan to that bottom list as well. I'm not trying to analyse anything particularly... I'm just trying to point out what is blatantly there. The manager is happy, he hasn't complained once about not being backed yet people insist we spend big this summer but there doesn't seem to be logic behind it. He's made several references to how little we've spent. I haven't mussed the point at all. This a big Summer and the owners need to step up to the plate. |
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Post by foster on May 27, 2015 10:14:29 GMT
Players in positions we need to strengthen are:- (putting sentimentality aside) its a harsh world folks Wilson, Walters, Whelan, Bardsley, Odemwingie) tin hat on I agree we need to strengthen the first 11. So Wilson isn't an issue (squad player anyway), Walter and Odem can be replaced with a RW, making them squad players, Bards is already a squad player so it would be a case of getting a Cameron upgrade at RB. In summary, our right side could do with an upgrade. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 10:16:37 GMT
I see Cameron as a first eleven player playing in front of the back four - i.e. his preferred position and one in which, we hardly ever see him
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Post by foster on May 27, 2015 10:19:41 GMT
What does that mean though, I made this thread because people keep coming out with lines like that but why spend 10+ million on a player for the sake of it. Because that's what it seems like you're suggesting, Hughes hasn't once complained about not being able to get the means to sign his targets so what is this issue you're creating? I'm not trying to analyse anything particularly... I'm just trying to point out what is blatantly there. The manager is happy, he hasn't complained once about not being backed yet people insist we spend big this summer but there doesn't seem to be logic behind it. He's made several references to how little we've spent. I haven't mussed the point at all. This a big Summer and the owners need to step up to the plate. You're both arguing different points. It's not about not backing Hughes. It's about not wasting money. MH deserves (and has) backing, that is not being debated. What the money is spent on is the topic of the discussion. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2015 10:19:53 GMT
I see Cameron as a first eleven player playing in front of the back four - i.e. his preferred position and one in which, we hardly ever see him You'd play him over Whelan? |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 10:22:39 GMT
err ---yep I would use the Swansea game at home as an example - he came on for last 25 minutes and completely bottled up their midifeld and severed an increasingly dangerous linkage to Bony Single handed - Gcam played that holding position for about 25 mins and effectively sealed the win for us
its his best position and in time, I see him superseding Glenn
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2015 10:24:00 GMT
err ---why?
I actually like Geoff in midfield but he's not disciplined enough to do what Whelan does, I'd want him playing where N'Zonzi does.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 27, 2015 10:24:23 GMT
He's made several references to how little we've spent. I haven't mussed the point at all. This a big Summer and the owners need to step up to the plate. You're both arguing different points. It's not about not backing Hughes. It's about not wasting money. MH deserves (and has) backing, that is not being debated. What the money is spent on is the topic of the discussion. But you can't just cherry pick big money deals that have gone wrong to make the point. Occasionally you have to pay top dollar for the right player and the more you try and go the Bojan's dogs home route the harder it gets to keep repeating the trick. Hughes certainly thinks its time to spend. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-City-s-quality-quantity-transfer-market/story-26554791-detail/story.html |
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Post by foster on May 27, 2015 10:26:47 GMT
You're both arguing different points. It's not about not backing Hughes. It's about not wasting money. MH deserves (and has) backing, that is not being debated. What the money is spent on is the topic of the discussion. But you can't just cherry pick big money deals that have gone wrong to make the point. Occasionally you have to pay top dollar for the right player and the more you try and go the Bojan's dogs home route the harder it gets to keep repeating the trick. Hughes certainly thinks its time to spend. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-City-s-quality-quantity-transfer-market/story-26554791-detail/story.htmlI have no issue spending a lot on a player as long as the player is actually worth that amount and has resale value. Like anyone else I wouldn't like to feel ripped off. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 10:26:49 GMT
You're both arguing different points. It's not about not backing Hughes. It's about not wasting money. MH deserves (and has) backing, that is not being debated. What the money is spent on is the topic of the discussion. But you can't just cherry pick big money deals that have gone wrong to make the point. Occasionally you have to pay top dollar for the right player and the more you try and go the Bojan's dogs home route the harder it gets to keep repeating the trick. Hughes certainly thinks its time to spend. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-City-s-quality-quantity-transfer-market/story-26554791-detail/story.htmlCherrypicking? Are you taking the piss? Name some that didn't go wrong then? Because they're few and far between |
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Post by cheekymatt71 on May 27, 2015 10:37:20 GMT
With big money comes big expectations. Look at the likes of Bale, Lukaku etc.
When a player comes in as a club's record signing it always puts extra pressure on that player to perform and I think that can have a detrimental effect on their performance level in some cases.
Imagine if Bojan had come as a 20 million record signing to Stoke. Hes definitely worth that much but imagine the pressure on him to perform. I think he enjoys the fact he came here a little under the radar without fans and the manager expecting too much too soon. He had 6 months to get up to speed and look how that benefited him.
Same for Diouf. The fact he was a "free" transfer has actually helped with the patience from fans for him to perform. Ditto Arnautovic
If we buy someone for 20 mill I worry that its more than likely the player turns out to be a flop as the OP shows with his examples
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 27, 2015 10:42:34 GMT
Cherrypicking? Are you taking the piss? Name some that didn't go wrong then? Because they're few and far between I think at least 2 in your first list are pretty reasonable deals, with the jury out on a few more as well. I'd add Bertrand as a massive success as well, you then have three in your success stories that cost more than we spent in both windows last season so I don't really get your point. I'm with the manager, the club needs to spend heavily this window. |
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