|
Post by davejohnno1 on May 27, 2015 7:52:53 GMT
Would you trust Henderson? Or smalling? Or Can? Or mignolet? Not being able to partner lampard in midfield effectively isn't a crime. Almost all would struggle with a midfield partner that plays as a centre forward offering nothing other than in the opposition penalty area in the process. England managers are to blame for what you describe. Whenever lampard was missing, Gerrard played far better. It should always have been one or the other but several gutless, hopeless England managers were too stupid to risk the wrath of the media. Gerrard has been a constant in two shocking teams for a number of years. Had he left Liverpool he would be seen as a better player than he's given credit for. I don't agree about Lampard. He's the better player IMO. Gerrard's best performances have always come when he's had one of these clever, string pulling types behind him like a Hamann or an Alonso. He gets credit for Istanbul but if Hamann hadn't come on at half time they wouldn't have come close to that comeback. He could've reinvented himself as a deeper player as age caught up with him but he wasn't disciplined enough. Lampard isn't a patch on Gerrard. Lampard was a centre forward masquerading as a midfield player and had he played for anyone other than Chelsea he wouldn't have got away with it...just like he didn't with England.
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on May 27, 2015 7:56:44 GMT
I don't agree about Lampard. He's the better player IMO. Gerrard's best performances have always come when he's had one of these clever, string pulling types behind him like a Hamann or an Alonso. He gets credit for Istanbul but if Hamann hadn't come on at half time they wouldn't have come close to that comeback. He could've reinvented himself as a deeper player as age caught up with him but he wasn't disciplined enough. Lampard isn't a patch on Gerrard. Lampard was a centre forward masquerading as a midfield player and had he played for anyone other than Chelsea he wouldn't have got away with it...just like he didn't with England. Lampard controlled the midfield virtually every time they came to the Brit. He's not one for charging through midfield with the ball but he's one who was always one step ahead, moving it on quickly and then getting into positions to take it forward. I never fully appreciated how good he was until we got promoted and we could watch him up close. He's a very intelligent player. Neither did themselves justice for England. Lampard had an excellent Euro 2004, Gerrard had a good Euro 2012. Though if you put a gun to my head and asked me to name five memorable Gerrard performances or five memorable Lampard England performances I'd struggle.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 8:02:10 GMT
"It was like watching a video game where player two hasn't picked up the controller" Brilliant I disagree about Adam being second in line for man of the match,in my opinion it was between Nzonzi and Diouff. Also think you're doing Gerrard a disservice at the end,he was a far better player in his pomp than you're giving him credit for. Great write up yet again though and you should be paid for doing this kind of stuff.
|
|
|
Post by foster on May 27, 2015 8:39:10 GMT
As I said in another thread I'd have booked him for it personally, and that's not Stoke tinted glasses. It was an absolute disgrace and we need to stop acting like it's ok for a fully grown men to feel a slight touch and fling themselves to the ground. A foul is a foul. He went down too easy. Probably would have been given had he not dived so theatrically. Anyway, it evens itself out as Skrtel should have been off by then. Adequate write-up by the way.
|
|
|
Post by foster on May 27, 2015 8:42:23 GMT
Lampard isn't a patch on Gerrard. Lampard was a centre forward masquerading as a midfield player and had he played for anyone other than Chelsea he wouldn't have got away with it...just like he didn't with England. Lampard controlled the midfield virtually every time they came to the Brit. He's not one for charging through midfield with the ball but he's one who was always one step ahead, moving it on quickly and then getting into positions to take it forward. I never fully appreciated how good he was until we got promoted and we could watch him up close. He's a very intelligent player. Neither did themselves justice for England. Lampard had an excellent Euro 2004, Gerrard had a good Euro 2012. Though if you put a gun to my head and asked me to name five memorable Gerrard performances or five memorable Lampard England performances I'd struggle. Lampard for me... Better stats, more medals and his performances haven't gotten worse through all the years he's been playing. I think it's a bit unfair that Gerrard has had so much more attention placed on him leaving the Prem, compared to Lampard.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 8:49:48 GMT
Who's point scoring it's a message board what's the point in that? There you go again taking it all so seriously Your stance changes ever so subtly week after week when it comes to Diouf so don't give me that shit, I can see it as can other posters. But you stick to your guns....... So I'm sticking to my guns but changing week after week? How does that work The sticking to your guns bit refers to the fact that you refuse to just say "I was too hasty in writing Diouf off, he's proved me wrong and fair play to the lad" So you go from lines such as "I've lost faith in him", "His control is shocking and won't improve" to "He's not the £60k a week striker to lead the line I expected him to be" Good that you're worried about the clubs finances but just let Peter and Denise worry about that. Ever changing goalposts my friend........
|
|
|
Post by foster on May 27, 2015 8:56:32 GMT
I think Robs pretty much admitted he was too hasty in writing Diouf off. No need to keep rubbing his Diouf-despising nose in it.
Personally, I do feel that he's the man to lead the line (for next season at least). If we can get some competition then great, but I don't think we need to spend a lot of money looking for an upgrade.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 9:00:12 GMT
I think Robs pretty much admitted he was too hasty in writing Diouf off. No need to keep rubbing his Diouf-despising nose in it. Personally, I do feel that he's the man to lead the line (for next season at least). If we can get some competition then great, but I don't think we need to spend a lot of money looking for an upgrade. Has he? Not seen it myself, hard to avoid winding him up as he needs to lighten up a bit..........
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on May 27, 2015 9:05:07 GMT
So I'm sticking to my guns but changing week after week? How does that work The sticking to your guns bit refers to the fact that you refuse to just say "I was too hasty in writing Diouf off, he's proved me wrong and fair play to the lad" So you go from lines such as "I've lost faith in him", "His control is shocking and won't improve" to "He's not the £60k a week striker to lead the line I expected him to be" Good that you're worried about the clubs finances but just let Peter and Denise worry about that. Ever changing goalposts my friend........ I've been completely consistent about the 'he's not the 60k a week striker I think we need' thing. I said that in the thread you're so obsessed with (even if you can only remember four words of it). Still not convinced by his touch. He's been excellent in recent weeks and is well worth his place in the side.
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on May 27, 2015 9:05:55 GMT
He went down too easy. Probably would have been given had he not dived so theatrically. Anyway, it evens itself out as Skrtel should have been off by then. Adequate write-up by the way. Doesn't matter how easily he went down, if you're fouled, you're fouled.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 9:12:23 GMT
One gripe. Not enough mention of Arnie, but otherwise superb as usual.
|
|
|
Post by foster on May 27, 2015 9:16:20 GMT
He went down too easy. Probably would have been given had he not dived so theatrically. Anyway, it evens itself out as Skrtel should have been off by then. Adequate write-up by the way. Doesn't matter how easily he went down, if you're fouled, you're fouled. You sound like Ivan Drago in Rocky 3. Yes it does matter how he goes down, as is seen all the time. Your black or white argument sounds good in principle, but it's not the case in reality. As said, Skrtel should have been off, after all, a Foul is a Foul, but in the end that decision not being taken likely attributed to them not getting the Pen.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 9:23:49 GMT
He went down too easy. Probably would have been given had he not dived so theatrically. Anyway, it evens itself out as Skrtel should have been off by then. Adequate write-up by the way. Doesn't matter how easily he went down, if you're fouled, you're fouled. He wasn't fouled though. The match offical didn't give it........
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on May 27, 2015 9:33:01 GMT
Doesn't matter how easily he went down, if you're fouled, you're fouled. He wasn't fouled though. The match offical didn't give it........ By that logic Patrick Battison wasn't fouled...
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on May 27, 2015 9:34:20 GMT
Doesn't matter how easily he went down, if you're fouled, you're fouled. You sound like Ivan Drago in Rocky 3. Yes it does matter how he goes down, as is seen all the time. Your black or white argument sounds good in principle, but it's not the case in reality. As said, Skrtel should have been off, after all, a Foul is a Foul, but in the end that decision not being taken likely attributed to them not getting the Pen. Skrtel should have gone, Lallana should've had a penalty. Taylor got both decisions wrong.
|
|
|
Post by cousindupree on May 27, 2015 9:40:36 GMT
I thought it was a rather petty spiteful analysis of Gerrards career which clearly showed prejudice in your opinion. I am not sure where the assumption comes from that Gerrard was one of the best midfielders in the world at International level. Often surrounded in an England shirt by mediocrity he always gave everything .All Liverpool supporters will remember him for the contribution he made to their club. He is their Dennis Smith,Talisman inspirational leader a match winner and a carrier of lesser players on his shoulders.Few players in the modern era have been his equal at club level. I suspect you were one of those who sat on their hands when Gerrard scored.The majority of Stoke fans sitting around me were genuine in showing their respect for an Iconic player leaving the scene. A refreshing moment in today's one eyed biased opinionated modern football era.
|
|
|
Post by foster on May 27, 2015 9:42:04 GMT
You sound like Ivan Drago in Rocky 3. Yes it does matter how he goes down, as is seen all the time. Your black or white argument sounds good in principle, but it's not the case in reality. As said, Skrtel should have been off, after all, a Foul is a Foul, but in the end that decision not being taken likely attributed to them not getting the Pen. Skrtel should have gone, Lallana should've had a penalty. Taylor got both decisions wrong. Thanks for stating the obvious.
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on May 27, 2015 9:48:06 GMT
Skrtel should have gone, Lallana should've had a penalty. Taylor got both decisions wrong. Thanks for stating the obvious. Sorry, I thought you were suggesting the theatrics meant it wasn't a penalty?
|
|
|
Post by Mr_DaftBurger on May 27, 2015 9:50:48 GMT
Bowie reference! Freak out, far out....... "Instead they produced a display of such gutlessness as to make Spurs’s foppish no-show look like a colony of worker bees who’ve just found out Tony Pulis is their queen."
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on May 27, 2015 9:51:43 GMT
I thought it was a rather petty spiteful analysis of Gerrards career which clearly showed prejudice in your opinion. I am not sure where the assumption comes from that Gerrard was one of the best midfielders in the world at International level. Often surrounded in an England shirt by mediocrity he always gave everything .All Liverpool supporters will remember him for the contribution he made to their club. He is their Dennis Smith,Talisman inspirational leader a match winner and a carrier of lesser players on his shoulders.Few players in the modern era have been his equal at club level. I suspect you were one of those who sat on their hands when Gerrard scored.The majority of Stoke fans sitting around me were genuine in showing their respect for an Iconic player leaving the scene. A refreshing moment in today's one eyed biased opinionated modern football era. I don't see how it was spiteful, it was my honest assessment of him. I have no reason to be prejudiced either way. Of course he's a Liverpool hero. Good for him. But we were constantly told in his heyday he was this world class midfielder and had all this media hysteria for months and I've given my reasons as to why I think the hype was OTT. Just because I don't have my hanky out doesn't mean I'm prejudiced.
|
|
|
Post by foster on May 27, 2015 9:59:37 GMT
Thanks for stating the obvious. Sorry, I thought you were suggesting the theatrics meant it wasn't a penalty? Nah, never said that.
|
|
|
Post by podolipotter on May 27, 2015 11:11:24 GMT
Brilliant penmanship young man. Why are you not writing for the Daily Mail? Oh, oh, I see, you are a Stoke supporter. In terms of recent England team mediocrity, Gerrard was an outstanding workhorse for us and previously for Liverpool as well. He was gutsy, had vision and a tremendous right foot on him. But, as you comment, he is no Messi, or Xavi. When my phone bleeped here in Lytham St Annes last Saturday around 25 past 4, I was cheered to see that Gerrard had scored in his last game for his team. As a sportsman mayself, I thank him for his efforts for England and sincerely wish him well in the future.
|
|
|
Post by Olgrligm on May 27, 2015 11:55:16 GMT
"It was like watching a video game where player two hasn't picked up the controller" Brilliant I disagree about Adam being second in line for man of the match,in my opinion it was between Nzonzi and Diouff. Also think you're doing Gerrard a disservice at the end,he was a far better player in his pomp than you're giving him credit for. Great write up yet again though and you should be paid for doing this kind of stuff. That was my favourite line as well.
|
|
|
Post by onlyonesirstan on May 27, 2015 11:55:35 GMT
As always, brilliant report.
Can't wait for the season conclusions, and player ratings for the season.
Cheers once again
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 12:34:22 GMT
The comment about Gerrard is daft, especially the comparison to other top midfield players. Gerrard chose not to trust teammates, be it for Liverpool or England because they were shit and he couldn't trust them. With good players around him, he was never what you describe. His early England performances, surrounded by Beckham, Scholes, Campbell, Ferdinand, terry, Neville, Owen etc were never like that, nor were his Liverpool performances when he had the likes of Alonso and an in form Torres around him. In later years, he's tried to carry two shocking teams on his shoulders and as he's got older he's struggled to do so. Without him, Liverpool will finish below us next season. His England performances during the so-called 'golden generation' era were thoroughly average and the fact that he and Lampard couldn't work together was down to his headless chicken runs as much as anything. I don't think 'choosing not to trust your team mates' is an especially clever or admirable trait. spot on Rob. Gerrard has been poor for England for years!!!! the idea it's just since his career started to wane is garbage....people always assumed that because Lampard and Gerrard couldn't play together that Gerrard was the automatic winner of the place that was going when in reality we've always looked far better, more comfortable and far more fluid with Lampard in there instead of Steven "Could play the easy ball and keep the move going or ping it 65 yards straight out for a throw because i simply HAVE to try and play a defnece splitting ball at every available opportunity" Gerrard. once a great player for Liverpool and continued that up until relatively recently....once a great player for england but that was short lived and for at least 8 years or so has been average at best when playing in a National shirt.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 12:35:07 GMT
I don't agree about Lampard. He's the better player IMO. Gerrard's best performances have always come when he's had one of these clever, string pulling types behind him like a Hamann or an Alonso. He gets credit for Istanbul but if Hamann hadn't come on at half time they wouldn't have come close to that comeback. He could've reinvented himself as a deeper player as age caught up with him but he wasn't disciplined enough. Lampard isn't a patch on Gerrard. Lampard was a centre forward masquerading as a midfield player and had he played for anyone other than Chelsea he wouldn't have got away with it...just like he didn't with England. Lampard has been far better, more useful and massively more consistent for England than Gerrard EVER has been mate!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 12:37:33 GMT
He went down too easy. Probably would have been given had he not dived so theatrically. Anyway, it evens itself out as Skrtel should have been off by then. Adequate write-up by the way. Doesn't matter how easily he went down, if you're fouled, you're fouled. mate this is coming from all the same people who tell us that it was irrelevant how easily Moses went down at Swansea remember? if we do it then we HAVE to because the ref's are against us so we have to make it clear for them..if anyone else does it then they're just soft, cheating bastards
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on May 27, 2015 12:42:03 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 13:00:05 GMT
I'm not sure Odemwingie and Sidwell deserve the same mark as Cameron, given they offered next to nothing between them. Probably knock Whelan down to a 7 too, which ties in with the manager seemingly starting to lose confidence in him and trying other options out. Overall, decent summary mate.
|
|
|
Post by chiefdelilah on May 27, 2015 13:02:37 GMT
I'm not sure Odemwingie and Sidwell deserve the same mark as Cameron, given they offered next to nothing between them. Probably knock Whelan down to a 7 too, which ties in with the manager seemingly starting to lose confidence in him and trying other options out. Overall, decent summary mate. I don't think he did lose faith in him mate, though I'm sure he'll try and upgrade on him this summer. But cheers!
|
|