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Post by chiefdelilah on May 23, 2015 16:43:19 GMT
I agree it's a weird way do doing business, I think Spurs needed to get players off the books and Pulis used it as a way of getting Crouch as well. That's what Redknapp claimed, though we know what he's like. Coates was critical of the Crouch deal but lamented that "we thought we were getting a good player" with Palacios. Pulis presumably lost interest in him once it became clear he was less use than a wheelie bin. That's the bit where us playing hardball with Spurs doesn't stack up. If they needed to get players off their books and Pulis was using this, how come we ended up paying the absolute top dollar for both? You'd have thought we'd have got the pair for £10m or so even if Palacios wasn't the irreparably damaged goods we ended up with. We seemed to be more desperate than they were, which brings me back to the suspicion that we wanted Crouch at any cost. Because that's not how Levy operates for one and Redknapp has claimed that he didn't want Crouch to go. Didn't it hinge on Adebayor arriving fairly late on?
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Post by basingstokie on May 23, 2015 16:44:01 GMT
Palacios clearly a complete basket case, but look at some of Pulis's cheaper signings who turned out to be,worth much more than we paid.
Shawcross, Begovic, Sorensen, Whelan, Fuller, Lawrence, Etherington
Reckon he had a good eye for a bargain, but (generally when given big money his record is 50:50 at Best)
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Post by riccyfuller93 on May 23, 2015 16:46:39 GMT
Coates and Pulis stated how desperate they were for Crouch. It was obvious Pulis wasn't interested in Palacios, but brought him in as part of the Crouch deal. Palacios was rarely given any time to prove himself at Stoke, it's not exactly his fault. He wasn't given time because he wasn't remotely fit enough at any stage. On paper he was Pulis' wet dream of a midfielder and Tony Pulis doesn't sign players he doesn't want to sign - ask 'Triggy and Ziggy'. Do people genuinely think that Pulis, who treated Deadline Day like Christmas Day, would dedicate a huge amount of time and resource at the business end of the transfer window to negotiating with a player he didn't want? That's selling the club to him, spending hours negotiating a big salary, getting things like image rights sorted, all of which takes a lot of time and money. It also means creating a problem by lying to a 'name' player you have no intention of using, potentially creating a bad apple in a dressing room where unity and team ethic was a huge part of the club's success? Break it down and it just doesn't make sense and isn't how he operated or how it works. Well he showed his interest in Crouch, clearly a favourite, if the only way to bring him in was with a deal for Palacios, yes I think he would definitely. When bringing in Huth he also brought in Tuncay, Tuncay hardly got time to prove himself, I remember he even subbed him on for about 2 mins then brought him off as we had a player sent off. Huth and Crouch were much more important to Pulis than Palacios and Tuncay.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 23, 2015 16:58:48 GMT
He wasn't given time because he wasn't remotely fit enough at any stage. On paper he was Pulis' wet dream of a midfielder and Tony Pulis doesn't sign players he doesn't want to sign - ask 'Triggy and Ziggy'. Do people genuinely think that Pulis, who treated Deadline Day like Christmas Day, would dedicate a huge amount of time and resource at the business end of the transfer window to negotiating with a player he didn't want? That's selling the club to him, spending hours negotiating a big salary, getting things like image rights sorted, all of which takes a lot of time and money. It also means creating a problem by lying to a 'name' player you have no intention of using, potentially creating a bad apple in a dressing room where unity and team ethic was a huge part of the club's success? Break it down and it just doesn't make sense and isn't how he operated or how it works. Well he showed his interest in Crouch, clearly a favourite, if the only way to bring him in was with a deal for Palacios, yes I think he would definitely. When bringing in Huth he also brought in Tuncay, Tuncay hardly got time to prove himself, I remember he even subbed him on for about 2 mins then brought him off as we had a player sent off. Huth and Crouch were much more important to Pulis than Palacios and Tuncay. So you think Pulis would pay £11m for an injury prone defender who'd just been relegated? And that Boro would ask for that much in the first place? He wanted Tuncay, just like he wanted Palacios. Palacios wasn't important to him because it quickly became clear he wasn't the player he used to be. The Wigan Palacios was literally everything Pulis looked for in a midfielder. The one we got was the wheezing ghost of that player. Again, there's no way Pulis would waste time he didn't have thrashing out a long, complicated, expensive deal for a player he didn't want.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2015 16:58:51 GMT
That's the bit where us playing hardball with Spurs doesn't stack up. If they needed to get players off their books and Pulis was using this, how come we ended up paying the absolute top dollar for both? You'd have thought we'd have got the pair for £10m or so even if Palacios wasn't the irreparably damaged goods we ended up with. We seemed to be more desperate than they were, which brings me back to the suspicion that we wanted Crouch at any cost. Because that's not how Levy operates for one and Redknapp has claimed that he didn't want Crouch to go. Didn't it hinge on Adebayor arriving fairly late on? Can't remember anything about Adebayor, but I'm sure you're right. Your point about how Levy operates is interesting though. I'd assume that making it a 'two players or no players' deal would be exactly how Levy operates, and probably trumps your earlier statement that "that isn't the way Tony Pulis works." At a push, I could see Pulis agreeing to the two player deal because he'd always wanted Crouch, which 'Arry would have been well aware of, and may have thought he could resurrect the Palacios of old, even if he wasn't as enthusiastic about signing him. That's why I don't think it's too outlandish to believe that's how we may have ended up with the two rather than just the one Pulis really wanted.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 23, 2015 17:01:14 GMT
Because that's not how Levy operates for one and Redknapp has claimed that he didn't want Crouch to go. Didn't it hinge on Adebayor arriving fairly late on? Can't remember anything about Adebayor, but I'm sure you're right. Your point about how Levy operates is interesting though. I'd assume that making it a 'two players or no players' deal would be exactly how Levy operates, and probably trumps your earlier statement that "that isn't the way Tony Pulis works." At a push, I could see Pulis agreeing to the two player deal because he'd always wanted Crouch, which 'Arry would have been well aware of, and may have thought he could resurrect the Palacios of old, even if he wasn't as enthusiastic about signing him. That's why I don't think it's too outlandish to believe we may have ended up with the two rather than just the one Pulis really wanted. We'd been linked to Palacios for months before the deal though. Levy makes sure he gets top dollar for players but he also had a wheeler dealer manager with the potential to finish top four with the right additions and strengthening and I don't think he'd want to be the reason why he wasn't able to.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on May 23, 2015 17:03:58 GMT
Well he showed his interest in Crouch, clearly a favourite, if the only way to bring him in was with a deal for Palacios, yes I think he would definitely. When bringing in Huth he also brought in Tuncay, Tuncay hardly got time to prove himself, I remember he even subbed him on for about 2 mins then brought him off as we had a player sent off. Huth and Crouch were much more important to Pulis than Palacios and Tuncay. So you think Pulis would pay £11m for an injury prone defender who'd just been relegated? And that Boro would ask for that much in the first place? He wanted Tuncay, just like he wanted Palacios. Palacios wasn't important to him because it quickly became clear he wasn't the player he used to be. The Wigan Palacios was literally everything Pulis looked for in a midfielder. The one we got was the wheezing ghost of that player. Again, there's no way Pulis would waste time he didn't have thrashing out a long, complicated, expensive deal for a player he didn't want. So after he spunked all that money on Palacios he instantly realized that Palacios is completely shite now? Yeah right. He wanted Crouch, Coates wanted Crouch, he was desperate for Crouch and if bringing him in was only going to work with Palacios then that's what he was going to do. Palacios had a few good performances in our cup games, and at that time would have walked into our squad over Whelan.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on May 23, 2015 17:05:12 GMT
Also if he wanted Tuncay, why did we never see much of him? The whole signing was bizarre.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 23, 2015 17:08:31 GMT
Also if he wanted Tuncay, why did we never see much of him? The whole signing was bizarre. Because he was a 'name' and Pulis couldn't help himself when it came to signing names, even if they didn't fit his system or we didn't really need them. He did it countless times, from Berger to Woodgate to Owen. You could even argue Crouch and Adam fell under that bracket, as did his attempts to sign Bellamy back in the day.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 23, 2015 17:10:07 GMT
So you think Pulis would pay £11m for an injury prone defender who'd just been relegated? And that Boro would ask for that much in the first place? He wanted Tuncay, just like he wanted Palacios. Palacios wasn't important to him because it quickly became clear he wasn't the player he used to be. The Wigan Palacios was literally everything Pulis looked for in a midfielder. The one we got was the wheezing ghost of that player. Again, there's no way Pulis would waste time he didn't have thrashing out a long, complicated, expensive deal for a player he didn't want. So after he spunked all that money on Palacios he instantly realized that Palacios is completely shite now? Yeah right. He wanted Crouch, Coates wanted Crouch, he was desperate for Crouch and if bringing him in was only going to work with Palacios then that's what he was going to do. Palacios had a few good performances in our cup games, and at that time would have walked into our squad over Whelan. He didn't do his homework on the deal, no. He assumed his injury wasn't long-term and he could do a dogs home job. Palacios' performances couldn't hold a candle to Whelan's. It was like playing with 10 men. He generally only looked good in a three man midfield where someone else could do his running for him and the pace was slower.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on May 23, 2015 17:15:41 GMT
So after he spunked all that money on Palacios he instantly realized that Palacios is completely shite now? Yeah right. He wanted Crouch, Coates wanted Crouch, he was desperate for Crouch and if bringing him in was only going to work with Palacios then that's what he was going to do. Palacios had a few good performances in our cup games, and at that time would have walked into our squad over Whelan. He didn't do his homework on the deal, no. He assumed his injury wasn't long-term and he could do a dogs home job. Palacios' performances couldn't hold a candle to Whelan's. It was like playing with 10 men. He generally only looked good in a three man midfield where someone else could do his running for him and the pace was slower. Whelan in the last season with Pulis was terrible in my opinion, I would have rather had Palacios playing instead, his fitness was an issue which would have been the only reason I would've played Whelan over him.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 23, 2015 17:18:18 GMT
He didn't do his homework on the deal, no. He assumed his injury wasn't long-term and he could do a dogs home job. Palacios' performances couldn't hold a candle to Whelan's. It was like playing with 10 men. He generally only looked good in a three man midfield where someone else could do his running for him and the pace was slower. Whelan in the last season with Pulis was terrible in my opinion, I would have rather had Palacios playing instead, his fitness was an issue which would have been the only reason I would've played Whelan over him. Yeah he was. But Palacios' fitness was never not an issue at any point during his time here.
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Post by lawrieleslie on May 23, 2015 18:05:13 GMT
I would think his contract is £40k a week, so that's around £8m in wages plus £8m transfer fee plus whatever his agent was paid. He made 53 appearances, the majority as substitute. That works out an eye watering £300k per appearance. I don't go with this notion that his brothers death affected him after his move to us, his brother was killed just before his move to Spurs two years earlier. His mental condition must have been known by Spurs well before his transfer to us and Harry took Pulis to the cleaners IMO.
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Post by JoeinOz on May 24, 2015 1:04:03 GMT
Never mind Pulis -he was suckered by Harry - giving his supposed 'good friend' a hearty kick in the balls as much as anything else just proves the kind of man he is too a bit like selling your best mate who's strapped for cash, a duff car you knew about all along Dunner just blame Arry.
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Post by onionman on May 24, 2015 3:44:19 GMT
In the summer of 2011, Pulis was a lower division career man who, through his own hard work and success, had suddenly got the chance to spend some serious money buying the kind of players he'd spent his whole life dreaming about buying.
The man of his dreams was Peter Crouch. If we can accept his usual "DNA" research went out of the window when he got starry eyed over the prospects of signing Michael Owen, Tuncay or Eider Gudjohnsen, we can be damn sure his usual caution with St Peter's money went awol when he had a sniff of signing Peter Crouch.
Crouch was potentially available, Pulis knew Spurs were desperate to get rid of Palacios. So he agreed a deal to sign Palacios and then said he'd only go through with that deal if we could also have Crouch. Everything that was said at that time, and everything that's been reported since, is consistent with that chronology of events.
I agree, Chief Delilah, that Pulis was trying to play hardball. It seems most likely he was trying to play hardball to get Peter Crouch, his dream footballer, and Palacios was just a tool to make that happen, judging by TP's apparent failure to check his background out, and obvious lack of interest in trying to make the signing work.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 24, 2015 6:39:22 GMT
In the summer of 2011, Pulis was a lower division career man who, through his own hard work and success, had suddenly got the chance to spend some serious money buying the kind of players he'd spent his whole life dreaming about buying. The man of his dreams was Peter Crouch. If we can accept his usual "DNA" research went out of the window when he got starry eyed over the prospects of signing Michael Owen, Tuncay or Eider Gudjohnsen, we can be damn sure his usual caution with St Peter's money went awol when he had a sniff of signing Peter Crouch. Crouch was potentially available, Pulis knew Spurs were desperate to get rid of Palacios. So he agreed a deal to sign Palacios and then said he'd only go through with that deal if we could also have Crouch. Everything that was said at that time, and everything that's been reported since, is consistent with that chronology of events. I agree, Chief Delilah, that Pulis was trying to play hardball. It seems most likely he was trying to play hardball to get Peter Crouch, his dream footballer, and Palacios was just a tool to make that happen, judging by TP's apparent failure to check his background out, and obvious lack of interest in trying to make the signing work. Victor Von Frankenstein couldn't 'make the signing work' Onion. Why do people find it so hard to believe that Pulis wanted them both and it was an expensive dogs home job that went wrong? If the Palacios of old had turned up he'd have been straight in the team.
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Post by greystokie on May 24, 2015 8:07:26 GMT
The simple thing is TP wanted them both. I'm sure that he, together with most of us on this board thought we were getting the WP of old, or at least a dogs home candidate that had a good chance of being revived.
How wrong we were
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Post by zigazaga on May 24, 2015 8:45:31 GMT
We could have filled the corners in for what that waster has cost the club.
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Post by crapslinger on May 24, 2015 9:24:54 GMT
We could have filled the corners in for what that waster has cost the club. we still could do one corner size of the fat bastard.
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