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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 15:11:35 GMT
Now then --- let me see about 8 years ago (bit longer ?) - or a bit more still ? For some years since its elitist conception I had hated everything premier league, principally because, never in my wildest dreams, did I imagine Stoke City would ever achieve such status. And then - there we were - first few years the world was against us - Fortress Britannia - loudest crowd - it was warfare , open warfare - 'missile like' long throw ins, parking the bus away, binary football gut wrenching to watch at times - but we survived. Even survived to have a tip at an FA cup final - play in Europe etc etc Then we looked around - began to ask - is there more to it than this ? Could we possibly look upward with confidence season in and out - and not downward ? Then things changed - early days of our journey I dreamt of us being a stable mid table club, respected for our football, still having a reputation for being fearsome at home but also, being able to 'play a bit' too Wind the tape on and, that's right where we are - right now exactly as described above. But now I crave more , ambitous perhaps a little snobbish in our status these-days even - its all to easy to forget where we came form and the amazing contribution of the likes of Tony Pulis and many players who are still with us. Then today talk of a not retained list and some stalwarts appear on mine - superb players who've done us proud - chastised for suggesting some of them a little I was But now - this summer, a step change beckons, I push for the corner fill in, its another logical step to take us over 30k at home games, I also recognise that to move further onward some very, very, hard nosed and difficult decisions need to be taken, not based upon sentimentality loyalty or emotion but, all about how the club takes the next steps forward (or upward) to be 'upper quartile' in the premier league. Given our likely league finishing position, our likely income, our healthy support, our ability to grow our market based upon now solid, world wide brand status, our on pitch management team and their credibility and ability to acquire even better players, such moves upwardly are very possible. (we are definitely not shopping in the dented tins and damaged goods aisle anymore) I think weve definitely dropped the ball on one already however, (the stadium) it will be very interesting to see what we do this summer with regards to all the other aspects This summer, its another crossroads in our clubs history - opportunity beckons IF we are prepared to expect better in all things - to reach higher - be it the acadamy - the stadium - the playing staff - marketing - ticket pricing - world wide branding - in all thingslets see if Stoke City's ownereship is willing to take the next steps or, be happy in our admittedly wonderful - mid table mediocrity I look forward with great interest to see how we go  |
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Post by metalhead on May 5, 2015 15:53:37 GMT
Just don't see it happening myself.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on May 5, 2015 16:06:02 GMT
It seems like we're starting to balance the books, so I really can't see a splashing of cash, with the knock on implications on wage bill, this summer. Neither Coates nor Hughes will be with us ad infinitum, and I'm happy to see a sustainable financial model that will ensure the integrity of the Club going forward. Sir Peter stated that it is the intention to get to the point where two Academy lads are breaking through each season. We seem to be a few years off that, it'll require investment/pump priming in the shorter term {signing up the Waring and N'Goy type prospects}. I'd like to see more 'purchases' of this type to bridge the gap to the younger players at the Academy. In short I'm expecting continued evolution rather than a clear-out and big spend any time soon, and I'm certain that Hughes and co are in on this plan too. I like the fact that we aren't offering outrageous wages {in relation to our standing in the League}. I agree about a bit of ground/surrounding area development.  When I compare us to most other Clubs both on and off the field, and where we're heading, I get a swell of pride. Fewer injuries and we'd be even higher. All that falls on it's arse if we lose any of Begovic, N'Zonzi, Huth, or Shawcross etc and I might start advocating the Viv Nicholson approach. Extended Cup runs next year please. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 16:25:06 GMT
Im not thinking of taking big risks myself either. The corner 'fill in' to my mind is 'very small potatoes' in the overall scheme of things. I remain very happy with Mark Hughes's transfer approach, my point is we need to continue incremental improvement whilst being ruthless at times and innovative in terms of increasing on day match support and yes, attracting a far better calibre of talent into our academy .
(Ive seen our under 18s a couple of times now pre season at Warrington Town and to be honest, both times Ive not been impressed at all!)
BUT
I think its for the clubs owners to recognise opportunity the financial rewards present right now though, and drive through those incremental step changes at all levels and realise at times this means, not taking the easy route but, being ruthless in some respects, so to allow us to progress further and not just stick
stick for example with a 27 thousand seater stadium when its obvious we need to increase its size
and stick (another example) with exisitng longstanding players who, in truth arent going to get us above halfway in the league at any time in the future,
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Post by Pugsley on May 5, 2015 17:18:36 GMT
There's some African geezer interested in buying a football club. Worth 10 billion quid. Give him a call, maybe he can get a few things moving? loadsa money |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 17:34:04 GMT
Flippin heck ! I dont want that either,(soulless foreign olygarths with criminal tendencies and dodgy backgrounds ? NO THANKS !!!)
I think its a wonderful situation now that Peter Coates has his younger family involved in our club, There is a local dynasty going on, I would hope would remain ambitous for our club and, remain at Stoke For the long haul
Where could it end ? what are the next steps ?
top six finishes, 30k plus crowds - realistic expectation to win cups such as the FA Cup ? - regular European football ?
routine defeats of the big four --- home and away ------ why not !!!!
just need to move forward and get it right
HOWEVER my biggest fear - (as signified by the lack of movement on ground capacity)
one thing you dont do in business -- stand back and admire your own hard work then - stand still - do nothing - do not move forward
and Assocation Football at the top level - like it or not - is a business
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Post by StokieAsh13 on May 5, 2015 17:41:05 GMT
Realism is the biggest factor. Last season left us craving more and this season has been hard to accept at times. I don't know where we will go in years to come but we should definitely enjoy the ride and all stick together good or bad!
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Post by stokiejoe on May 5, 2015 17:45:24 GMT
I think this Summer will see just how much we wish to progress. Hughes has said we have to spend to stand still so it is obvious that to progress we need to spend even more. Despite loads of words about past spending, we are where we are because we did spend not because we didn't. Every business needs to invest and re-invest and football is no exception. Some investment works out some doesn't but too little investment guarantees failure.
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Post by stokesaint1 on May 5, 2015 18:45:06 GMT
Ukye, surprisingly I find myself mainly agreeing with you. I once worked with a guy who had a big sign over his desk and it has remained with me ever since as being very meaningful. I'd very much like to see the board at Stoke City adopt the same adage. Quite simply "DON'T ACCEPT MEDIOCRITY, TAKE THE INITIATIVE" Just go for it. Interestingly, I also had a sign above my desk too, simply DNLTBGYD. But they did.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 5, 2015 19:17:06 GMT
Now then --- let me see about 8 years ago (bit longer ?) - or a bit more still ? For some years since its elitist conception I had hated everything premier league, principally because, never in my wildest dreams, did I imagine Stoke City would ever achieve such status. And then - there we were - first few years the world was against us - Fortress Britannia - loudest crowd - it was warfare , open warfare - 'missile like' long throw ins, parking the bus away, binary football gut wrenching to watch at times - but we survived. Even survived to have a tip at an FA cup final - play in Europe etc etc Then we looked around - began to ask - is there more to it than this ? Could we possibly look upward with confidence season in and out - and not downward ? Then things changed - early days of our journey I dreamt of us being a stable mid table club, respected for our football, still having a reputation for being fearsome at home but also, being able to 'play a bit' too Wind the tape on and, that's right where we are - right now exactly as described above. But now I crave more , ambitous perhaps a little snobbish in our status these-days even - its all to easy to forget where we came form and the amazing contribution of the likes of Tony Pulis and many players who are still with us. Then today talk of a not retained list and some stalwarts appear on mine - superb players who've done us proud - chastised for suggesting some of them a little I was But now - this summer, a step change beckons, I push for the corner fill in, its another logical step to take us over 30k at home games, I also recognise that to move further onward some very, very, hard nosed and difficult decisions need to be taken, not based upon sentimentality loyalty or emotion but, all about how the club takes the next steps forward (or upward) to be 'upper quartile' in the premier league. Given our likely league finishing position, our likely income, our healthy support, our ability to grow our market based upon now solid, world wide brand status, our on pitch management team and their credibility and ability to acquire even better players, such moves upwardly are very possible. (we are definitely not shopping in the dented tins and damaged goods aisle anymore) I think weve definitely dropped the ball on one already however, (the stadium) it will be very interesting to see what we do this summer with regards to all the other aspects This summer, its another crossroads in our clubs history - opportunity beckons IF we are prepared to expect better in all things - to reach higher - be it the acadamy - the stadium - the playing staff - marketing - ticket pricing - world wide branding - in all thingslets see if Stoke City's ownereship is willing to take the next steps or, be happy in our admittedly wonderful - mid table mediocrity I look forward with great interest to see how we go It's not mid table MEDIOCRITY though is it? Finishing mid table is pretty much hitting the absolute zenith of where a club like ourselves can finish. For sure there might be the odd season when one of our 'lot' does a Southampton but those instances are always going to be few and far between. Do you think that Sunderland fans consider finishing mid table to be a sign of a mediocre season? If we can finish around mid table for the next ten seasons whilst still attempting to play a decent brand of nogger, then that will be an absolutely UNBELIEVABLE result for me. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 19:26:09 GMT
We come from little old Stoke Tony, we're happy with our mid table lot!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 19:28:00 GMT
You can have your mid table mediocrity. I want us to win the F.A. Cup!
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Post by mrcoke on May 5, 2015 20:37:34 GMT
I agree with the sentiment of the original post and think we would have seen more progress this season but for the injuries sustained which dented our cup runs and must have cost us some league points.
We need to see further incremental improvement during the close season with the purchase of 2 or 3 first choice players but not wholesale change. The new contracts with Whelan and Crouch are a good sign. The lack of new contracts for others may indicate where Hughes is going to strengthen/change.
The club must not take it's eye of the immediate goal which is a top ten finish. Any lower could be detrimental to attracting the sort of talented players we need to strengthen.
To be a sustainable top ten club, the production of top class players from the academy is essential, as Stoke will never compete with the rich clubs in the transfer league.
Compared to financial soundness, a top ten first team, a strong squad, and a productive academy, developing the ground to 30,000 + is small beer.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on May 6, 2015 0:33:17 GMT
You can have your mid table mediocrity. I want us to win the F.A. Cup! Or even the League cup again. |
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Post by stokeramblers on May 6, 2015 0:45:32 GMT
In a roundabout kind of way what you're saying Tone is....
'Fill the fucking corners in'
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Post by lastoftheldk on May 6, 2015 0:58:40 GMT
Win a cup, the FA cup,
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Post by djduncanjames on May 6, 2015 1:23:11 GMT
Great OP and to add I think the future looks very bright for us, everything looks to be pointing in the right direction for these "Future Aspirations" in all our hearts. Certainly areas need improvement but the thing I love about our current approach is everything seems to be being addressed at the right pace with acknowledgment of where we need to improve. No stupid money is being thrown around and everything we do seems measured and shrewd. In time I think we will all be shocked at what we are about to achieve in the next few years. Happy Days and long may it continue. Great thread with lots of positive input, thanks for sharing everyone, the future is bright at Stoke  |
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Post by Binndy on May 6, 2015 4:40:14 GMT
Widening of the pitch.
Get in youngsters with ability for the first team , u21 and u18s.
Coates is wanting the academy to be a success. So it time to bring in the youngsters to up the image Of the academy and keep the wage bill under control.
Im happy with top12 each season.with good cup runs.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 6, 2015 8:25:57 GMT
I'm not sure PC needs any business advice from me.
If we look coldly at the economics of filling in the corners, I'm just not sure it is significant in the modern business of football.
The cost/benefit analysis would surely show a big initial capital spend, with no great increase in turnover, revenue or profit. All matchday revenues are now dwarfed by TV income. It's actually less important financially now than it was before the bigger TV money.
From a "club" point of view it would be good, and it's a little frustrating to see Derby, Leicester etc pull bigger crowds than us. But, we're probably right at the top of our historical average attendances.
In addition to the cost of the work on the seating, there would also need significant additional investment in the entire infrastructure of the stadium. More parking, better access/egress, more policing/stewarding, more catering etc. Then we've got to sell all the additional tickets, not just for Prem games but League Cup and FA Cup games. We can't do that now in the early rounds.
Finally, would it make The Brit less harsh? We know that teams don't like coming to the blasted heath, with the wind and the rain swirling and howling around.
So for all those reasons, I can see why the board are not rushing in. They're nobody's fools.
Our medium term financial security has been secured by staying in this League for 7 seasons. We owe a bigger debt to our former manager for keeping us in this league in those very tough first 2 or 3 seasons after promotion than some supporters are prepared to give credit for.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on May 6, 2015 8:45:07 GMT
Im wondering if this ongoing Barca connection can help us bridge the gap to the Top 6.
Fact 1) We dont have the pure cash to buy top 6 players
Fact 2) Barca have the best conveyor belt of talent in the world but cant give them time in the first team to develop - so they end up in a much less competitive Barca B in the Spanish 2nd division.
The players on the fringes of Barcelona are clearly and utterly Top 6 Premier League standard. Just look at Bojan for evidence of that. So can we get Barca to fund that extra 30-40m worth of talent we need by taking their players on loan for a season or two to prepare them for Barca first-team?
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Post by geoff321 on May 6, 2015 8:52:13 GMT
It's a bit odd toney to use the word wonderful and mediocrity in the same sentence. We finished 9th last season which most are saying is mid table although that position puts 11 clubs below us and 8 above us.
We are highly unlikely to become a regular top six side especially when you now see the huge financial gap that has opened up between the top six and the rest,this means the upside from here is limited to 7th or 8th.
If we do achieve 7th or 8th in the next few seasons toney, in your view would that take us out of our wonderful but admittedly mid table mediocrity?
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Post by viewfrominside on May 6, 2015 9:11:10 GMT
If the prospect of signing a one goal in twelve hours forward is anything to go by, I'd say consolidation is our goal  With all these players for 2 to 5 million we are being linked with and the odd dark horse at 8, it's looking increasingly obvious what our budget is this summer imo. I just hope Hughes is content with being offered certain players by the club not because they are his first choices but because they have a short contract and will be cheap, because no doubt that is what is happening. Self Sufficient is the buzz word at scfc. It's all well & good when they pay off but the chances are we may sign just as much chaff aswell in doing so. And it will come as no surprise, the new transfer team were bought in to do exactly that, find continental players on the cheap. |
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Post by liathroid on May 6, 2015 9:15:40 GMT
don't think the transfer fees are the problem ,its the wages
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 9:23:52 GMT
I think you can use wonderful and mediocrity in terms for Stoke City Right now -its wonderful the journey we have taken - and we have secured a mid table spot for a while to come.
In the bigger picture of the premier league though, that's mediocrity in truth - meanwhile,
Im' for positively searching out what comes next
I do not see us as a 'yo yo team' fearing relegation anymore - I see us as being 'upwardly mobile' and I want to see us continue to maximise our potential.
Everton -Spurs, - West Ham - Southampton are where we want to go next surely ?
As I keep banging on , the next steps are pretty much laid out for us concerning management, player acquisiitons, the acadamay, the ground and our worldwide marketing potential.
Teams Like Stoke City should not be thinking about whats going on in Burslem for a nano second - more, how we gain market share in Scandanavia, Asia and the Americas !!!!!
(the pre season tour is a massive opportunity to do this)
The ground thing - whilst small potatoes is part of the strategy that makes the Premier league almost unique (Peter Scudamore repeates this over and over - part of the Premier league 'brand' is the game atmosphere we re-create pretty constantly) - i.e. pretty much full grounds always. ( the visibly open corner on TV is actually somewhat embarressing in this context actually)
We Can still look however to the Bundesliga to see how this can be improved even further.
(much keener match day ticket pricing - safe standing - better access - properly priced merchandise - food and beer etc etc)
All Im saying is- dont be locked into the tent vale and the six towns mentality - think worldwide and what every single thing Stoke Cit now does, in a worldwide context.
first and foremost, we have to recognise we are in the premier league long term and, we are looking upward not, over our shoulder
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Post by viewfrominside on May 6, 2015 9:26:58 GMT
don't think the transfer fees are the problem ,its the wages We'll have to up the wage in the next couple of seasons just to hold onto our better players because other clubs will be upping theirs as the revenue increases |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 9:29:48 GMT
Ithink the clubs approach to wages is spot on - we have to hold them - find other ways of making our club attractive to them
the way we dealt with Rory Delaps ankle break under Pulis's'reign is a perfect example - i.e. a club sensbibly run - hard headed if you like but, loyal and compassionate too
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Post by geoff321 on May 6, 2015 9:47:39 GMT
What makes a club attractive to the very top players is how much will they get paid and how many trophies they will win.
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Post by stokemark on May 6, 2015 10:24:05 GMT
We have just spent the last two seasons re-adjusting to a new model based around low initial outlay (transfer fees) and capping wages (thus a £30m profit this time around after years of losses under TP) we employed a new manager, new backroom staff (Cartwright) and made it fairly public that the Coates 'legacy' is self sufficency.
So, unless the old fella has suddenly lost he marbles (and I am sure Denise has a clause in her contract with her Dad to ensure that in that scenario all monies immediately transfer over) then the answer is 'more of the same'
I dont see there being any sort of 'step change' and its signified by (as you so often reference) the lack of desire to finish building a stadium that was 'designed' to be added if the club were successful when originally built almost 20 years ago.
Where this leaves us then honestly I dont know - I do know that Middlesborough are perhaps the best reference to a club similar size to ours, local owner, who eventually his the buffers. My ultra pessimistic forecast (Ive supported Stoke for 40 odd years) is this - Enjoy what we have now, expect no more and accept that at some point in time we are much more likely to be relegation candidates than Champions League challengers.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 10:45:40 GMT
With all due respect ''expect no more and accept that at some point in time we are much more likely to be relegation candidates than Champions League challengers.''
So -this is a good as it gets eh ?
jesus - we may as well pack it in now then ?
The above conveys a worryingly questionable attitude in the face of great possibility, sad to say
its exactly what holds the club back - right here - on this posting / posting immediately above
Therefore - lets all look forward to Derby and Middlesboro or Norwich or Watford replacing us then - as we go back to our rightful
place with much more modest expectation
because seemingly, its inevitable - its inbred almost - effectively what this says is :- 'we're gonna go back from whence we came- no point in having ambition'
- IF this is indeed the voice of Stoke City
(I bloody well hope it is NOT)
Its a pretty disappointing, borderline awful - summary of our position to say the least (again, with all due respect)
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Post by jukeboxjury on May 6, 2015 10:50:48 GMT
I believe that the next season and our summer spending will give us an indication of where the club is heading.
Realistically remaining in the premier league is what we all crave, however you only have to look at the likes of Wigan to see what happens when the powers that be get it wrong.
Stability is the key to success and wise investments to be able to sustain a profitable outcome
Who knows what lies ahead, I didnt expect this but so pleased for the owners and of course the fans of our club.
I just hope that if more giddy days come our way we dont have the atmosphere at the Etiad or Stamford Bridge crowds
What makes our club special for me is the supporters, there are many like me who remember the atmosphere at the Vic and in the first couple of years it was deafening at the Brit. Dont let us lose that.
Be proud, be loyal. Be STOKE
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