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Post by Miles Offside on May 4, 2015 18:05:03 GMT
I watched Leicester on TV the other day and, other than going up for corners and free kicks, Huth sat back in defence, hardly ever got drawn forward or to his full-back. He just dominated the middle and made Leicester look solid.
That's how Ryan used to be, but for some time now I've been thinking he's dragged too easily out of position.
I saw him making challenges around the centre circle and halfway line 3 times just in the few minutes we were on MOTD on Saturday.
He's making challenges - and getting by-passed - in places where our fullbacks or midfielders should be.
It's partly down to the more attacking style Hughes has introduced, where we now play a higher defensive line. And it's probably partly due to Ryan's attempts to drive us forward.
Whatever it's down to, it needs sorting. We aren't getting the most out of one of the best CBs in the country.
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Post by adamsson on May 4, 2015 18:18:07 GMT
Aye lad back in olden days when Tony was manager all defenders were ever expected or allowed to do was defend, severe penalties were imposed for crossing the half way line.
Mr Hughes expects his defenders to do more and so there are more demands on them . of course this gives them more chances to make mistakes.
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Post by dexta on May 4, 2015 18:30:13 GMT
I watched Leicester on TV the other day and, other than going up for corners and free kicks, Huth sat back in defence, hardly ever got drawn forward or to his full-back. He just dominated the middle and made Leicester look solid. That's how Ryan used to be, but for some time now I've been thinking he's dragged too easily out of position. I saw him making challenges around the centre circle and halfway line 3 times just in the few minutes we were on MOTD on Saturday. He's making challenges - and getting by-passed - in places where our fullbacks or midfielders should be. It's partly down to the more attacking style Hughes has introduced, where we now play a higher defensive line. And it's probably partly due to Ryan's attempts to drive us forward. Whatever it's down to, it needs sorting. We aren't getting the most out of one of the best CBs in the country. drivel |
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Post by Miles Offside on May 4, 2015 18:30:37 GMT
Aye lad back in olden days when Tony was manager all defenders were ever expected or allowed to do was defend, severe penalties were imposed for crossing the half way line. Mr Hughes expects his defenders to do more and so there are more demands on them . of course this gives them more chances to make mistakes. Fair do's, lad, if you're happy to see the ball played round him on the halfway line. I preferred it when he was defending properly. And why do you reckon he scored more goals when he was facing severe penalties for crossing the halfway line? |
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Post by wuzza on May 4, 2015 19:09:01 GMT
Basic defending is no longer the 'in thing' then ?? That explains a bit ..... heaven help us.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 4, 2015 19:29:22 GMT
I don't think it's an issue.
It's ok for defenders to come out with the ball and play a bit sometimes. It's not voodoo.
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on May 4, 2015 22:43:22 GMT
I'd argue that Ryan has played his best football under Hughes.
His game is fine, it's his fitness that seems to be affecting him. Hopefully a good rest over the summer will mean we'll see him back to normal next season.
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Post by sportsman on May 4, 2015 22:58:51 GMT
A settled back four helps everyone and everything.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on May 5, 2015 0:14:09 GMT
OK,we may have defended better under Pulis,but we are getting more points and finishing higher under Hughes.  |
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 5, 2015 1:07:40 GMT
Due to recent performances people seem to be looking for problems in places there aren't any, Shawcross isn't the problem.
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Post by PotterLog on May 5, 2015 1:47:43 GMT
Due to recent performances people seem to be looking for problems in places there aren't any, Shawcross isn't the problem. Exactly, I can think of about 12 problems with our defence that "need sorting" before we're casting a critical eye over Ryan.. |
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Post by kustokie on May 5, 2015 2:56:02 GMT
Seem to remember Beckenbauer was quite good at bringing the ball out of defence and in effect playing as an extra MF player. So good in fact Sir Bobby was given the job marking him in the '66 WCF. They effectively neutralized each other, which was probably one of the reasons England won.
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Post by kustokie on May 5, 2015 3:04:06 GMT
Aye lad back in olden days when Tony was manager all defenders were ever expected or allowed to do was defend, severe penalties were imposed for crossing the half way line. Mr Hughes expects his defenders to do more and so there are more demands on them . of course this gives them more chances to make mistakes. Not entirely true. Bloor and Smith were let out of the cage to come up for corners. Always chipped in with 4 or 5 goals each season. |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on May 5, 2015 4:22:47 GMT
Ryan wasn't allowed to push up under Pulis which "okay" may take less risks.......but then we use to see Ryan lumping it up constantly to Crouch, dire football!!!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 5:49:45 GMT
The only part of Ryan that is a problem is his injury.
Everything else is just fine and dandy.
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Post by jeycov on May 5, 2015 6:50:28 GMT
A settled back four helps everyone and everything. This isn't helping and Ryan appears to be far from 100% fit. |
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Post by wuzza on May 5, 2015 7:07:30 GMT
Having firmly established that the only thing any of our centre backs have in common with Beckenbauer is their nationality how is it sensible or indeed entertaining to watch them tip tap the ball about amongst themselves and eventually get left with the responsibility of trying to find a 'killer pass'. It ain't Ryan's fault or indeed any of the others we just haven't got the balance right yet - as is often said 'a work in progress'. In the meantime we need to get back some of the basic principles of marking and clearing our own lines.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 5, 2015 7:48:42 GMT
They're two different things though Wuzza. Marking and not switching off is one thing but isn't necessarily connected to playing the ball out from the back or being alive to danger early. I can't think of too man y occasions when Ryan bringing the ball out from the back has cost us and if your centre backs can play a decent ball - and Ryan has shown a capability to do that a fair few times now - I don't see why you wouldn't utilise that.
We certainly have been guilty of over-elaboration at the back at times (which is probably why we went long more often at Swansea) but that doesn't mean playing it out from the back or your centre halves moving forward with the ball is invariably a bad thing.
Just because that's not how Tony used to do it doesn't make it wrong.
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Post by reddipotter on May 5, 2015 8:05:38 GMT
Having firmly established that the only thing any of our centre backs have in common with Beckenbauer is their nationality how is it sensible or indeed entertaining to watch them tip tap the ball about amongst themselves and eventually get left with the responsibility of trying to find a 'killer pass'. It ain't Ryan's fault or indeed any of the others we just haven't got the balance right yet - as is often said 'a work in progress'. In the meantime we need to get back some of the basic principles of marking and clearing our own lines. I would hope that , after two years, this fairly basic part of the tactics had been sorted out. But there still seems to be uncertainty about what to do, so sometimes there's endless sideways passing and sometimes a boot forwards. As in so much, N'Zonzi is part of the problem. He should pick the ball up from the defenders and move it forwards. But he so often plays it back again or just takes too long to do anything else. This is probably the part of our current approach that annoys me most week after week. |
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Post by retired1 on May 5, 2015 8:21:27 GMT
I don't think it's an issue. It's ok for defenders to come out with the ball and play a bit sometimes. It's not voodoo. Theres quite a few others in the team who could learn how to do that and they are midfielders. WE don't have many players thatare comfortable on the ball like many other teams. Our passing game suffers because of it. If Ryan doesn't feel the players around him are confident or skilful on the ball or in their defending he will take up positions all over the place that he shouldn't have to take. And he will then get caughtout of his position. |
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Post by philb on May 5, 2015 9:12:10 GMT
He just needs a decent partner.
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Post by Miles Offside on May 5, 2015 17:02:02 GMT
Nothing to do with Pulis, or whether Ryan's played some of his best football under Hughes (he's better on the ball), or his fitness (doesn't look 100% at present), or looking for problems (I mentioned this months ago), or playing the ball out from the back.
The point I was making was about positioning.
Ryan's one of the best three CBs in the Premier League, but his game suffers occasionally by him being pulled out of position.
It doesn't need a return to Pulis-style defending. I gave Huth as an example because he doesn't get pulled out of position while Leicester have played some great attacking football since he's been there.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 5, 2015 17:07:26 GMT
Nothing to do with Pulis, or whether Ryan's played some of his best football under Hughes (he's better on the ball), or his fitness (doesn't look 100% at present), or looking for problems (I mentioned this months ago), or playing the ball out from the back. The point I was making was about positioning. Ryan's one of the best three CBs in the Premier League, but his game suffers occasionally by him being pulled out of position. It doesn't need a return to Pulis-style defending. I gave Huth as an example because he doesn't get pulled out of position while Leicester have played some great attacking football since he's been there. You seem to be suggesting that him making tackles near the halfway line is invariably bad defending though, and I don't think it necessarily is. If he's alive to the danger, nipping it in the bud early and able to start off a counter higher up the pitch, that's a positive thing, no? It depends on the circumstances and the decision-making, and Ryan's is usually spot on. |
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Post by Miles Offside on May 5, 2015 17:13:34 GMT
Nothing to do with Pulis, or whether Ryan's played some of his best football under Hughes (he's better on the ball), or his fitness (doesn't look 100% at present), or looking for problems (I mentioned this months ago), or playing the ball out from the back. The point I was making was about positioning. Ryan's one of the best three CBs in the Premier League, but his game suffers occasionally by him being pulled out of position. It doesn't need a return to Pulis-style defending. I gave Huth as an example because he doesn't get pulled out of position while Leicester have played some great attacking football since he's been there. You seem to be suggesting that him making tackles near the halfway line is invariably bad defending though, and I don't think it necessarily is. If he's alive to the danger, nipping it in the bud early and able to start off a counter higher up the pitch, that's a positive thing, no? It depends on the circumstances and the decision-making, and Ryan's is usually spot on. Making tackles near the halfway line isn't invariably bad defending. I just think that occasionally (obviously not all the time) he's drawn into positions where he would, in a better set-up, be covered by his DMs or fullbacks. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 10:23:07 GMT
Some may not like it but for me Huth was the true leader and brick in our defence which Shawcross used to feed off.
Also agree on his positioning, not just this season but he is often in the wrong spot when balls are coming across, this has nothing to do with covering other players which is what usually gets peddled out here in defence.
A quality defender but some areas need improvement and I think Huth forced that.
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Post by lastoftheldk on May 7, 2015 7:05:34 GMT
Faye, did the same as well
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