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Post by bigjohnritchie on May 4, 2015 11:45:37 GMT
I don't think that the reality of the extent of our integration into the EU has dawned upon the majority of UK citizens. Under the EU we are no longer countries but " member states". I wonder how many of us are aware of the role and power of Martin Schulz,Donald Tusk and Jean Claude Juncker, as well as the current role of Latvia.Add Angela Merkel and François Hollande into the equation and I don't believe that this powerful elite has a strong enough connection with the electorate. I wonder what the future holds for democracy in the ' United States of Europe '
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Post by stokeharry on May 4, 2015 11:52:35 GMT
I don't think that the reality of the extent of our integration into the EU may not have dawned upon the majority of UK citizens. Under the EU we are no longer countries but " member states". I wonder how many of us are aware of the role and power of Martin Schulz,Donald Tusk and Jean Claude Juncker, as well as the current role of Latvia.Add Angela Merkel and François Hollande into the equation and I don't believe that this powerful elite has a strong enough connection with the electorate. I wonder what the future holds for democracy in the ' United States of Europe ' There is no democracy whilst we are ruled by Europe.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 5, 2015 0:10:17 GMT
I don't think that the reality of the extent of our integration into the EU may not have dawned upon the majority of UK citizens. Under the EU we are no longer countries but " member states". I wonder how many of us are aware of the role and power of Martin Schulz,Donald Tusk and Jean Claude Juncker, as well as the current role of Latvia.Add Angela Merkel and François Hollande into the equation and I don't believe that this powerful elite has a strong enough connection with the electorate. I wonder what the future holds for democracy in the ' United States of Europe ' Stop raising sensible questions mate. Huddy and his pals don't want to engage on stuff like this. Don't you know that Farage was the son of a Banker?
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Post by stockportstokie on May 5, 2015 1:17:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 5:47:35 GMT
And it only costs us our democracy and £52million a day to get that We are nearly at the end game now.......very close to the event horizon ....point of no return ....the unelected suits in Brussels have created a system where we have slowly been manipulated into something we will soon be unable to back out of.....what do we do as Brits if we don't like the EU system we've been forced into?......these guys are not elected by the people or indeed unelected by the people......THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY. Let's wake up before it's too late, we don't need political union, we don't need their laws. Let's trade with them, trade with the commonwealth, trade with the rest of the world too.
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Post by bathstoke on May 5, 2015 6:15:23 GMT
Demagoguery
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Post by ukcstokie on May 5, 2015 10:32:04 GMT
So £150million over 30 years. That's £5million/year. Staffordshire CC budget was close on a billion last year - plus S-O-T council. £5 million/year is a piss in the wind.
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Post by trickydicky73 on May 5, 2015 12:15:06 GMT
I don't think that the reality of the extent of our integration into the EU may not have dawned upon the majority of UK citizens. Under the EU we are no longer countries but " member states". I wonder how many of us are aware of the role and power of Martin Schulz,Donald Tusk and Jean Claude Juncker, as well as the current role of Latvia.Add Angela Merkel and François Hollande into the equation and I don't believe that this powerful elite has a strong enough connection with the electorate. I wonder what the future holds for democracy in the ' United States of Europe ' Stop raising sensible questions mate. Huddy and his pals don't want to engage on stuff like this. Don't you know that Farage was the son of a Banker? Even Tony Benn thought the EU was undemocratic.
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Democracy
May 5, 2015 14:11:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 14:11:12 GMT
Stop raising sensible questions mate. Huddy and his pals don't want to engage on stuff like this. Don't you know that Farage was the son of a Banker? Even Tony Benn thought the EU was undemocratic. He understood what they were upto .....he knew tony Blair and new labour were a created plan to hand us over to Brussels on a plate
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Post by crapslinger on May 5, 2015 14:30:35 GMT
I don't think that the reality of the extent of our integration into the EU may not have dawned upon the majority of UK citizens. Under the EU we are no longer countries but " member states". I wonder how many of us are aware of the role and power of Martin Schulz,Donald Tusk and Jean Claude Juncker, as well as the current role of Latvia.Add Angela Merkel and François Hollande into the equation and I don't believe that this powerful elite has a strong enough connection with the electorate. I wonder what the future holds for democracy in the ' United States of Europe ' Stop raising sensible questions mate. Huddy and his pals don't want to engage on stuff like this. Don't you know that Farage was the son of a Banker? Allahs left sandal thinks he is the son of a baker
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Post by lawrieleslie on May 5, 2015 15:12:07 GMT
I don't think that the reality of the extent of our integration into the EU may not have dawned upon the majority of UK citizens. Under the EU we are no longer countries but " member states". I wonder how many of us are aware of the role and power of Martin Schulz,Donald Tusk and Jean Claude Juncker, as well as the current role of Latvia.Add Angela Merkel and François Hollande into the equation and I don't believe that this powerful elite has a strong enough connection with the electorate. I wonder what the future holds for democracy in the ' United States of Europe ' BJR you only have to look at our own "First past the post" electoral system that does not give representation of the electorate votes to realise that true democracy does not exist in UK. The most stark example will be if (and probably when if predictions are to be believed) 59 SNP MPs take their place at Westminster. That will be 10% of the Westminster Seats voted for by 4% of the UK electorate. There will be many other examples of this and much of it can be blamed on successive governments tweaking constituency boundaries to scoop as many votes as possible. However I don't know what the answer is without a complete overhaul of Government and electoral system.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 5, 2015 15:26:47 GMT
I don't think that the reality of the extent of our integration into the EU may not have dawned upon the majority of UK citizens. Under the EU we are no longer countries but " member states". I wonder how many of us are aware of the role and power of Martin Schulz,Donald Tusk and Jean Claude Juncker, as well as the current role of Latvia.Add Angela Merkel and François Hollande into the equation and I don't believe that this powerful elite has a strong enough connection with the electorate. I wonder what the future holds for democracy in the ' United States of Europe ' BJR you only have to look at our own "First past the post" electoral system that does not give representation of the electorate votes to realise that true democracy does not exist in UK. The most stark example will be if (and probably when if predictions are to be believed) 59 SNP MPs take their place at Westminster. That will be 10% of the Westminster Seats voted for by 4% of the UK electorate. There will be many other examples of this and much of it can be blamed on successive governments tweaking constituency boundaries to scoop as many votes as possible. However I don't know what the answer is without a complete overhaul of Government and electoral system. Spot on. SNP could get 59 seats on 4% of the vote. Lib Dems get maybe 20 seats on 8% of the vote. UKIP could get (if some predictions are to be believed) 0 seats on 14% of the vote. A flaw in the electoral system - which helped make the country governable for many years, is now turning into a massive problem for democracy. How can 4 million UKIP voters not have any say whereas a fraction of those voting for the SNP maybe get to decide who runs the country? When you get problems like that then people will lose faith in the process.
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Post by ashleyscfc on May 5, 2015 15:52:56 GMT
I don't think that the reality of the extent of our integration into the EU may not have dawned upon the majority of UK citizens. Under the EU we are no longer countries but " member states". I wonder how many of us are aware of the role and power of Martin Schulz,Donald Tusk and Jean Claude Juncker, as well as the current role of Latvia.Add Angela Merkel and François Hollande into the equation and I don't believe that this powerful elite has a strong enough connection with the electorate. I wonder what the future holds for democracy in the ' United States of Europe ' Not heard of European elections?
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Post by partickpotter on May 5, 2015 16:23:58 GMT
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Post by cheeesfreeex on May 5, 2015 16:48:01 GMT
I'd abolish Parliamentary constituencies and elections. Instead use Proportional Representation based on a Single Transferrable Vote system to elect local councillors based on the existing County boundaries. The local Councillors then choose the most able from amongst their number to represent the area at a national level. {Numbers based on geographical size and population}. A seven year term with a text vote of confidence after three and five years. Government would be based on the most suitable of the County representatives and not on a party political carve up. Oh and create a zoo for the H of L where school children could visit and throw peanuts.
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Post by capto on May 6, 2015 10:12:47 GMT
I may be wrong but from memory, wasn't democracy, as per Athens in ancient Greece, where every free man had a vote on every issue - debaters for and against made their arguments - and then the free men (as in no women or slaves) voted with a black or white pebble. So, there is no democracy today - the electorate vote once in five years for someone who can then do what they please . . . Unless, you substitute the slaves as the electorate and the MP's as the ones who listen to the debates and then vote. But, the alternative? Now you've got me!
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 11:49:17 GMT
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Democracy
May 6, 2015 12:00:15 GMT
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Post by starkiller on May 6, 2015 12:00:15 GMT
People of Europe despise the EU too. And it all started with Heath and Thatcher...
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2015 12:02:25 GMT
People of Europe despise the EU too. And it all started with Heath and Thatcher... It started way before them
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Post by lawrieleslie on May 9, 2015 9:56:26 GMT
People of Europe despise the EU too. And it all started with Heath and Thatcher... Yeh Maggie was a right twat negotiating a rebate every year because of the very unfair CAP budget which massively favoured France. Despite Blair surrendering nearly a quarter of our rebate it is now worth £3.8b. We should never ever forgive Maggie for that Heath signed us into an EU so far removed from what it is today because of the Masstrict and other fudged treaties that he cannot be blamed for the mess of the EU today. In fact had he known then what he was letting UK into he would never have signed us into it I am sure if that.
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Democracy
Oct 10, 2015 19:15:08 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 10, 2015 19:15:08 GMT
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Democracy
Oct 10, 2015 20:50:45 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 10, 2015 20:50:45 GMT
A few Germans protest against the undemocratic EU. " Hundreds of thousands of people marched in Berlin on Saturday to oppose a planned free trade deal between the European Union and the United States that is claimed to be anti-democratic and to threaten food safety and environmental standards" Berlin anti-TTIP trade deal protest attracts hundreds of thousands gu.com/p/4d78c?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardThe TTIP consolidates power in the bourgeoisie at the expense of the proleteriat; gu.com/p/4b846?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Memo(It's ridiculously long)
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Democracy
Oct 10, 2015 21:23:53 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Oct 10, 2015 21:23:53 GMT
Democracy is the the part of the electorate that can be bothered to vote electing a government, so the ones that didn't win can spend the next 5 years slagging off said government
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Democracy
Oct 10, 2015 21:40:04 GMT
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Post by starkiller on Oct 10, 2015 21:40:04 GMT
I don't think that the reality of the extent of our integration into the EU may not have dawned upon the majority of UK citizens. Under the EU we are no longer countries but " member states". I wonder how many of us are aware of the role and power of Martin Schulz,Donald Tusk and Jean Claude Juncker, as well as the current role of Latvia.Add Angela Merkel and François Hollande into the equation and I don't believe that this powerful elite has a strong enough connection with the electorate. I wonder what the future holds for democracy in the ' United States of Europe ' There is no democracy whilst we are ruled by Europe. The powers have already been handed over. Signed off by that traitor, 'Her Majesty'.
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Democracy
Oct 10, 2015 21:43:46 GMT
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Post by stokeharry on Oct 10, 2015 21:43:46 GMT
There is no democracy whilst we are ruled by Europe. The powers have already been handed over. Signed off by that traitor, 'Her Majesty'. I'd rather "her majesty" than the traitor Corbyn . "Her majesty" has no impact or influence on my life what so ever and thankfully neither will Corbyn but his intentions are to "lead" this country which I am strongly opposed to. The EU isn't democratic and in all all fairness neither is our own parliament . As you often point out its all a load of bollox and whoever you vote for, the government always gets in .
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Post by kbillyh on Oct 10, 2015 22:10:49 GMT
I can't think of anything worse than some politician coming along and actually trying to represent the people over corporations..........how very fucking unpatriotic can you be. Thinking that social justice is at the heart of Britishness, why i'd have every single one of these do gooders shot for treason........bring back concentration camps for these so called progressives, it's the only language they understand.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 22:19:46 GMT
"Rick" out of The Young Ones ....... Ha. Ha ha ....
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 25, 2016 23:20:02 GMT
Democracy is the real reason that we should leave the EU, not immigration. I wish that the Labour party would grasp this, not only do we need to leave, we need to reform the UK Parliamentary voting system, which is outdated and keeps the self interested powerful in control and likewise the ridiculous House of Lords
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Post by mumf on Feb 25, 2016 23:59:16 GMT
Democracy is the real reason that we should leave the EU, not immigration. I wish that the Labour party would grasp this, not only do we need to leave, we need to reform the voting system, which is outdated and keeps the self interested powerful in control and likewise the ridiculous House of Lords Well.....To be honest there's half a dozen major headline reasons to consider in my opinion . Immigration is arguably the most popular or unpopular one depending on how you look it . Democracy is singly the most important because it covers all subjects and in this respect I suppose you are correct . I think as the run up to the referendum looms up on the horizon more reasons or arguments will be brought under the spotlight for political debate . I also believe that your social standing and that of your peers is also likely to have major impact on how we vote . I actually think that a large part of the "out " campaigners will come from the poorer labour supporters . I don't believe for one minute that they will follow the advice given by Corbyn , but will instead vote accordingly to what they think is best for them and the country in general . Many blame cheap foreign migrants for stealing their jobs and as a result will only be too keen to show their feelings on the matter . Similarly , the Tory party is also split , but for different reasons . I suspect we are talking about people who in the main fear being ostracised from the European Union and all the trade agreements that are currently in place . If we do leave then all these type of issues will have to be resolved in an amicable way if our departure is going to be a successful one . i suppose the best advice in how to decide is to write down on separate cards the pros and cons and then place them down on a table and count up which pile has the greater number ...The 'in' pile or the 'out pile. There is little doubt that the pound will lose some of its value which again can be assessed in different ways , but if this does happen as predicted then at least our exports abroad will be cheaper . We will see some businesses relocating such as the car manufacturers who will obviously assess and calculate the labour costs along with the overall viability of their manufacturing process . Its all swings and roundabouts at the moment , but some of you will be pleased to learn that the government will be bringing out a help sheet to help you decipher the nitty gritty of the economic complexities suffice to say that I expect there to be an element of misinformation included in order for the 'in vote ' to have a distinct advantage ....if you follow my drift . If on the other hand you want to simply take the short cut approach in deciding the countries future , then a simple maths test is the easiest way . We currently pay in £ 5 Billion more than we receive ...so obviously thats an out vote ...but then you have to think about the effect of us voting out . How many jobs will be lost in our economy . Can we survive on our own , safe in the knowledge that if we do leave ,then we will never be allowed back in ...
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Democracy
Feb 26, 2016 0:18:27 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 26, 2016 0:18:27 GMT
I agree with most of what you say there Ric,bug for me democracy is something that should nor be given away ,so is more important than any of the other issues, to be able to decide for yourself.
For me, of course we can survive on our own. In fact we need to start to get a bit more self confidence and entrepreneurship, in a truly global sense. The EU is quickly seeming like an old hat out of date inward looking institution.
What is the future for the EU, withot our membership? Are all the citizens really united behind this self serving body, which is extending it's powers beyond trade?
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