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Post by foster on Apr 25, 2015 21:17:20 GMT
Do other teams seem to need as much defensive protection as us?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 25, 2015 21:17:29 GMT
So there's a stat for 'most tackles made in front of the back four' is there? By all means give us a link. Who was second in that one? Third? Why wouldn't I be able to stand the fact that Nzonzi - one of my favourite players - had a good game (which on the ball he did)? How can it be the back line's fault that it was exposed? They can and were poor anyway but how can they be exposed by themselves? That doesn't make any sense?It's not about Glenn himself it's about having a proper DM. You keep building straw man arguments though by all means, we're up to about six or seven on this thread alone. Did you see Wolly today? He exposed every stoke player nearly and himself... lets be real... The stat's are direct from the League... Opta and pulled from several online sites. You know where they are. If you have opta, go to the chalkboard it shows nzonzi's tackles... If not, go to who-scored.com (Who pulls opta's info but has less information) Nzonzi's tackles are all in our half after our back line gave it away besides two and near the box. It also shows how "poor" our distribution was from the back today... all over. Your argument is as straw as it gets... speculative and not actual events or based on the result. Glenn could of scored... just as he "could" of sat in the backline and gave us a 5 man defense... Who scored and Opta show who made the most tackles on which specific area of the pitch do they? Or do they just, like most stats sites, show most tackles made generally? As Looky says, stats tend to tell you what happens on the ball and very little about what happens off it, which is just as important to that position. Wollscheid was dreadful but that doesn't mean he exposed the back four, it just means that he was dreadful. You can't expose the back four if you're part of it. That just doesn't make any sense. Just like your arse can't expose itself. I'm not saying we'd have won if Whelan had have played and even the most basic reading of my posts on the thread should tell you that.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 25, 2015 21:18:13 GMT
Do other teams seem to need as much defensive protection as us? Most teams have a DM yes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 21:18:41 GMT
Where have I said "Hughes said this.."? I think what is becoming very clear is that you do not understand a single thing about football, other than "stats". This time next year he will have no critics. Come again... I think you and others of the same opinion are massively wrong and am confident it will be proven over the next 12 months. I think he is potentially a class centre half at this level and a perfect foil to a fit and firing Shawcross. What was that? They're opinions. Not stats. Move on, nothing to see here.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 25, 2015 21:25:23 GMT
We looked exposed at times against Rochdale with Glen in the side. Quite a few times this season teams have overrun our midfield, and we have have looked vulnerable whoever has played for us. I don't think we've looked solid all season, bar a few matches.
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Post by redwhite on Apr 25, 2015 21:30:42 GMT
Glen who was shite against Southampton and single handedly lost us two points against West Ham? No thanks. Wilson. Just no. Single handedly lost us two points you need to watch it again, yes he fucked up and contributed to it, but did you not watch what happened next? He gave the most needless foul away, allowing them to have their best chance of the game. The free kick was taken brilliantly. They were shite, and needed a goal from somewhere and Glenn delivered.
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 21:33:02 GMT
Come again... What was that? They're opinions. Not stats. Move on, nothing to see here. Hahaha so true... you know nothing!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 25, 2015 21:36:29 GMT
Single handedly lost us two points you need to watch it again, yes he fucked up and contributed to it, but did you not watch what happened next? He gave the most needless foul away, allowing them to have their best chance of the game. The free kick was taken brilliantly. They were shite, and needed a goal from somewhere and Glenn delivered. It was but there was still a lot to do, I'm trying to defend him, just pointing out it wasn't him alone, no keeper should get done on their own side of the goal.
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Post by Staying up for Grandadstokey on Apr 25, 2015 21:41:30 GMT
Single handedly lost us two points you need to watch it again, yes he fucked up and contributed to it, but did you not watch what happened next? He gave the most needless foul away, allowing them to have their best chance of the game. The free kick was taken brilliantly. They were shite, and needed a goal from somewhere and Glenn delivered. Bullshit,the West Ham guy bought the foul,clever play and a brilliant free kick.
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Post by redwhite on Apr 25, 2015 21:42:31 GMT
He gave the most needless foul away, allowing them to have their best chance of the game. The free kick was taken brilliantly. They were shite, and needed a goal from somewhere and Glenn delivered. It was but there was still a lot to do, I'm trying to defend him, just pointing out it wasn't him alone, no keeper should get done on their own side of the goal. Fair enough. Personally I think Begovic taking the gamble was the safest option, if he doesn't move a foot and the conventional over the wall kick is taken he doesn't stand a chance, as it happened both players gambled on the other being conventional, so I'd have to applaud Cresswell for doing so well with the idea and the application of the strike. I'm not a Whelan hater or anything but the fact that it was so unnecessary really annoyed me in that game and I think it was fair for him to be dropped as he wasn't particularly good against Southampton either.
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Post by riccyfuller93 on Apr 25, 2015 21:44:08 GMT
I wouldn't even care if Whelan never played again for Stoke.
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 21:52:59 GMT
Did you see Wolly today? He exposed every stoke player nearly and himself... lets be real... The stat's are direct from the League... Opta and pulled from several online sites. You know where they are. If you have opta, go to the chalkboard it shows nzonzi's tackles... If not, go to who-scored.com (Who pulls opta's info but has less information) Nzonzi's tackles are all in our half after our back line gave it away besides two and near the box. It also shows how "poor" our distribution was from the back today... all over. Your argument is as straw as it gets... speculative and not actual events or based on the result. Glenn could of scored... just as he "could" of sat in the backline and gave us a 5 man defense... Who scored and Opta show who made the most tackles on which specific area of the pitch do they? Or do they just, like most stats sites, show most tackles made generally? As Looky says, stats tend to tell you what happens on the ball and very little about what happens off it, which is just as important to that position. Wollscheid was dreadful but that doesn't mean he exposed the back four, it just means that he was dreadful. You can't expose the back four if you're part of it. That just doesn't make any sense. Just like your arse can't expose itself. I'm not saying we'd have won if Whelan had have played and even the most basic reading of my posts on the thread should tell you that. Yep.. They show who, where on a map and are time stamped in the match versus whom. Not just a number... if you looked on those site's you'd see. Go to the chalkboard, its all there. I suggest following both sites. Umm... Wollscheid exposed the entire team but no segment more the backline and Begovic consistently... lol This entire thread is bollocks that those players would of had better performances, it's head in the cloud stuff. Your posts assume Whelan would of done just that, as if steven had a bad match.. to which he didn't, he did a very good job defensively, infact one of the best overall games he's had recently to be brutally honest. I'm usually dogging him for not being tough in defense through the middle... You just haven't openly had the bollocks to say it. Which is worse.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 25, 2015 21:56:45 GMT
Who scored and Opta show who made the most tackles on which specific area of the pitch do they? Or do they just, like most stats sites, show most tackles made generally? As Looky says, stats tend to tell you what happens on the ball and very little about what happens off it, which is just as important to that position. Wollscheid was dreadful but that doesn't mean he exposed the back four, it just means that he was dreadful. You can't expose the back four if you're part of it. That just doesn't make any sense. Just like your arse can't expose itself. I'm not saying we'd have won if Whelan had have played and even the most basic reading of my posts on the thread should tell you that. Yep.. They show who, where on a map and are time stamped in the match versus whom. Not just a number... if you looked on those site's you'd see. Go to chalkboard, its all there. I suggest following both sites. Umm... Wollscheid exposed the entire team but no segment more the backline and Begovic consistently... lol This entire thread is bollocks that those players would of had better performances, it's head in the cloud stuff. Your posts assume Whelan would of done just that, as if steven had a bad match.. to which he didn't, he did a very good job doing defensively, infact one of the best overall games he's had recently to be honest. I'm usually dogging him for not being tough in defense through the middle... You just haven't openly had the bollocks to say it. Who made the second most tackles in front of the back four then, if Nzonzi made the most? How close was it? What were the numbers? Again, given that it doesn't take off the ball stuff into account it proves little either way. Nobody has said Wollscheid would've played better if Glenn had played. Again, you're reduced to flat out making shit up. Nzonzi was good on the ball, as usual. He wasn't disciplined off it, neither was Adam, and that was a problem. It didn't lead to a goal, but it might've done.
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 22:07:12 GMT
Yep.. They show who, where on a map and are time stamped in the match versus whom. Not just a number... if you looked on those site's you'd see. Go to chalkboard, its all there. I suggest following both sites. Umm... Wollscheid exposed the entire team but no segment more the backline and Begovic consistently... lol This entire thread is bollocks that those players would of had better performances, it's head in the cloud stuff. Your posts assume Whelan would of done just that, as if steven had a bad match.. to which he didn't, he did a very good job doing defensively, infact one of the best overall games he's had recently to be honest. I'm usually dogging him for not being tough in defense through the middle... You just haven't openly had the bollocks to say it. Who made the second most tackles in front of the back four then, if Nzonzi made the most? How close was it? What were the numbers? Again, given that it doesn't take off the ball stuff into account it proves little either way. Nobody has said Wollscheid would've played better if Glenn had played. Again, you're reduced to flat out making shit up. Nzonzi was good on the ball, as usual. He wasn't disciplined off it, neither was Adam, and that was a problem. It didn't lead to a goal, but it might've done. Re-read the Title... and go to the site with your own eyes. Quit making assumptions from the dark. It's all there, and yes people in this very thread have said it and if not... alluded to it. People have said he'd improved our defense by sitting which is, BS and which is worse is this callous disease that those two would of changed a thing... irrespective if they even played. People dont have the bollocks to say it but it's the truth.
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 22:10:48 GMT
I wouldn't even care if Whelan never played again for Stoke. That's edgy for the oatcake and damn near heretical!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 25, 2015 22:11:18 GMT
It was but there was still a lot to do, I'm trying to defend him, just pointing out it wasn't him alone, no keeper should get done on their own side of the goal. Fair enough. Personally I think Begovic taking the gamble was the safest option, if he doesn't move a foot and the conventional over the wall kick is taken he doesn't stand a chance, as it happened both players gambled on the other being conventional, so I'd have to applaud Cresswell for doing so well with the idea and the application of the strike. I'm not a Whelan hater or anything but the fact that it was so unnecessary really annoyed me in that game and I think it was fair for him to be dropped as he wasn't particularly good against Southampton either. Edit, sorry, meant to say NOT trying to defend him
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 22:14:09 GMT
Nzonzi > Glenn. The truth hurts get over it.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 25, 2015 22:16:36 GMT
Who made the second most tackles in front of the back four then, if Nzonzi made the most? How close was it? What were the numbers? Again, given that it doesn't take off the ball stuff into account it proves little either way. Nobody has said Wollscheid would've played better if Glenn had played. Again, you're reduced to flat out making shit up. Nzonzi was good on the ball, as usual. He wasn't disciplined off it, neither was Adam, and that was a problem. It didn't lead to a goal, but it might've done. Re-read the Title... and go to the site with your own eyes. Quit making assumptions from the dark. It's all there, and yes people in this very thread have said it and if not... alluded to it. People have said he'd improved our defense by sitting which is, BS and which is worse is this callous disease that those two would of changed a thing... irrespective if they even played. People dont have the bollocks to say it but it's the truth. I want you to tell me. The burden of proof is on you, and as I said, there's a lot more to the role than just what happens on the ball. Saying we missed a DM isn't the same as saying he'd have improved the defenders' individual performances. That doesn't mean one wouldn't have made a difference. You don't know what you're talking about.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 25, 2015 22:17:43 GMT
Nzonzi > Glenn. The truth hurts get over it. Why doesn't Hughes play Adam and Nzonzi every week then? Nzonzi is a better footballer than Glenn Whelan. He hasn't been a better holding midfielder than him when he's played there. If he had, Hughes would have used him as one.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 25, 2015 22:24:24 GMT
Nzonzi > Glenn. The truth hurts get over it. Yep, but they play different positions.
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 22:38:07 GMT
Nzonzi > Glenn. The truth hurts get over it. Yep, but they play different positions. Not for long, because we will have just Nzonzi doing both.
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 25, 2015 22:39:06 GMT
Nzonzi > Glenn. The truth hurts get over it. Why doesn't Hughes play Adam and Nzonzi every week then? Nzonzi is a better footballer than Glenn Whelan. He hasn't been a better holding midfielder than him when he's played there. If he had, Hughes would have used him as one. Because of Adam's defense contributions are less than his attacking ones... and Nzonzi is better.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 25, 2015 22:45:08 GMT
Why doesn't Hughes play Adam and Nzonzi every week then? Nzonzi is a better footballer than Glenn Whelan. He hasn't been a better holding midfielder than him when he's played there. If he had, Hughes would have used him as one. Because of Adam's defense contributions are less than his attacking ones... and Nzonzi is better. So presumably if Nzonzi stays he'll be the holding midfielder and we'll have a shiny new player in the Nzonzi role? I bet you we don't.
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Post by thestokielad on Apr 25, 2015 22:48:57 GMT
We need huthy
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 25, 2015 23:13:25 GMT
Yep, but they play different positions. Not for long, because we will have just Nzonzi doing both. Bet we don't, he won't be able to do both, it isn't possible, next season we'll be bringing someone else in as a DM.
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Post by foster on Apr 25, 2015 23:36:53 GMT
Do other teams seem to need as much defensive protection as us? Most teams have a DM yes. I know, but we seem to expect every other player on the pitch to defend as well. I wonder if the problem is not with the back 4 as a whole, if they need so much protection.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 26, 2015 0:03:55 GMT
Most teams have a DM yes. I know, but we seem to expect every other player on the pitch to defend as well. I wonder if the problem is not with the back 4 as a whole, if they need so much protection. I think you've hit on it there, atm we don't have a good enough rb, cb and Shawcross is looking a bit ropey, not sure he's up to fitness maybe, for me it needs taking apart and looking at again for this season, if we could, from todays game, only Pieters would be left.
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sutt
Youth Player
Ole Ole Ole Ole
Posts: 296
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Post by sutt on Apr 26, 2015 0:04:41 GMT
Why do people shit em selves when they see whelans not in the team as if he is single handedly responsible for our defence, how can you say we missed whelan when Adam Ireland and Nzonzi all had good games and linked very well, first half arguably the best display of the year.
This Nonsense that comes up every time whelan doesn't play is not true, we were opened up because of poor mistakes by defenders and conceded cos of a goalkeeping error
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Post by stokemanusa on Apr 26, 2015 2:34:40 GMT
Why do people shit em selves when they see whelans not in the team as if he is single handedly responsible for our defence, how can you say we missed whelan when Adam Ireland and Nzonzi all had good games and linked very well, first half arguably the best display of the year. This Nonsense that comes up every time whelan doesn't play is not true, we were opened up because of poor mistakes by defenders and conceded cos of a goalkeeping error Common sense would agree.
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boozo
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 82
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Post by boozo on Apr 26, 2015 6:22:14 GMT
stoke missed whelan yesterday as much as london misses the plague
he is dogshit
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