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Post by agingerstokie on Apr 20, 2015 8:24:43 GMT
That has pretty much killed the FA Cup in my opinion.
9 times out of 10 you are going to be against a top club in the final and now the secondary motivation has gone, our european adventure came via runner up now no one else can experience what we experienced unless they have a blinder of a match
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Post by jeycov on Apr 20, 2015 8:32:22 GMT
So we aim for 7th!
(or higher)
or win the Cup of course
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Post by mrcoke on Apr 20, 2015 8:56:59 GMT
This isn't sour grapes, but personally I'd prefer we were not in the Europa league till we are ready.
Competing on a Thursday night and Sundays damages performance in the Premier league due to the traveling and giving opponents an extra days rest/recovery time.
To compete in Europe you need to have strength in depth to the point of virtually 2 1st choice players for every position. MH has improved our squad strength to the highest ever IMO but it is still not strong enough for us to compete in Europe and still be a sustainable top ten team in the Prem.
We need at least another year to push on to 7th place (the top 6 richest clubs will buy success) and a further 3 transfer windows and time for the academy to produce to get the squad to the required strength. I say "at least" because one of the problems the club will face going forward is, like Southampton, the rich clubs will come and cherry pick our best players in the future.
If Southampton are in the Europa league next season (or Champions?) I fully expect their Premier league form will suffer as it has at Everton this season.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 9:02:02 GMT
If the motivation for getting to the FA Cup final is to qualify for Europe, then it's dead already. When I was celebrating getting to the final four years ago, I can't remember giving Europe more than an agreeable nod. Getting to the final itself and having the chance to win the darn thing was all that really mattered. That's my view as a fan, and from what I've seen, most clubs would rather avoid the Europa League anyway.
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Post by andrewguk on Apr 20, 2015 9:05:04 GMT
I fully expect their Premier league form will suffer as it has at Everton this season. & Newcastle Utd when they were in the Europa League |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 9:05:09 GMT
Yes....Cup runners up cant compete now. Only runners up in the league now get to compete with other runners up in other leagues in a competion called the champions league.....
?
The winners of a cup now compete in a Europe league, as the authorities didn't want the cup where cup winners compete against other cup winners....
Except the super cup of course....where the runners up of a country can qualify and then win the champions league ...and play against another team who won the europa cup, a cup where almost all have not have won any domestic trophy at all.....
;D
Vote UKIP
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Post by agingerstokie on Apr 20, 2015 9:09:49 GMT
This one easily, its faster, the format is a lot better and in general it looks a lot better. The rivals format is years behind in comparison to this and other forums such as invision, if they could make their forums anything like this then as a whole they would be much more popular. I did say secondary motivation to be fair but in my view for the club to evolve we need to be looking at all avenues to Europe to increase our exposure and also our chances of signing top players |
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 20, 2015 9:15:42 GMT
The best way to raise the profile of the FA Cup is for the winners to qualify for the Champions League. They have more right to be there than the 4th placed team in the premier League.
The best thing they could do for the prestige of the Europa League would be to make it a knockout competition from the start. That would mean that teams in tough leagues like the Prem could have a shot at going all the way without compromising their league position.
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Post by metalhead on Apr 20, 2015 9:18:38 GMT
For me, Europe was a wonderful experience, but not something we should be aiming for this season. It was probably a step too far last time, and it would probably be a step too far if we got it this time.
For me, let's aim to grow as a team. We've had a good solid season despite the ridiculous number of injuries and freak results that have gone against us. We've got a chance to build something really special. If Bojan comes back anywhere near the player he was when he got injured, he's a gem. Sparky is eyeing up further Spanish talent from Barca which would be a rather nice surprise too. Plus, we still have further signings to come I am sure. I don't believe for one second that Peter Coates won't give him any money this time. Surely after 2 fantastic seasons at our club, Hughes deserves the respect and gratitude of a few quid to spend in the summer. For fuck sake, Tony was given that season after season and spunked it on shit that Mark is still trying to dump.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 9:19:56 GMT
I'm kind of old fashioned too many in the Euro cups should be league winners only for Champions League and runners up for Europa, FA Cup semi at Wembley should be just the final, qualify for Europe for singing about holding hands and not being rude is just wrong. As much as it goes agaist the popular view thats mine winners only to qualify makes it more special but money rules.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Apr 20, 2015 16:54:21 GMT
I am bumping this in response to the Villa FA Cup thread. As I have only just noticed it.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 20, 2015 17:04:47 GMT
The best way to raise the profile of the FA Cup is for the winners to qualify for the Champions League. They have more right to be there than the 4th placed team in the premier League. The best thing they could do for the prestige of the Europa League would be to make it a knockout competition from the start. That would mean that teams in tough leagues like the Prem could have a shot at going all the way without compromising their league position. Spot on. The top two should qualify for the Champions League, and the winner of the FA Cup and the League Cup should get the other two spots. Europea League spots is done through a play-off between teams from third to eight in the league - it might add some excitement to the league. |
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 20, 2015 17:19:22 GMT
Bring back the Cup Winners' Cup!
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Apr 20, 2015 17:20:24 GMT
Bring back the Cup Winners' Cup! Spot on. |
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Post by baystokie on Apr 20, 2015 17:41:25 GMT
The best way to raise the profile of the FA Cup is for the winners to qualify for the Champions League. They have more right to be there than the 4th placed team in the premier League. The best thing they could do for the prestige of the Europa League would be to make it a knockout competition from the start. That would mean that teams in tough leagues like the Prem could have a shot at going all the way without compromising their league position. Spot on. The top two should qualify for the Champions League, and the winner of the FA Cup and the League Cup should get the other two spots. Europea League spots is done through a play-off between teams from third to eight in the league - it might add some excitement to the league. Disagree that ANY Cup winners should go into CL. Your chances of winning the FA and/or League Cup depend to a large extent on the luck of the draw - also you have only to win 6 games to win the FA Cup. You only have to look back at the draws we got in our FA Cup run to the Final. Unlike Lakeland, I would maintain that any team finishing in the Prem top four has more right to CL participation than a 6-game Cup chancer. Whilst European participation at some level remains the Holy Grail, then all competitions will be hostages to a qualification rule. |
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Post by scfcno1fan on Apr 20, 2015 18:23:38 GMT
When did this come in?
I've heard nothing about it.
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Post by onionman on Apr 20, 2015 18:30:55 GMT
Bring back the Cup Winners' Cup! Champions Cup: For the champions Cup Winners' Cup: For the cup winners UEFA Cup: For the clubs who had a good season but didn't win anything. Wouldn't it be great if football could go back to that? Unfortunately, I think there's something so sensible, honest and fair about it, it would never happen. |
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Post by ratters on Apr 20, 2015 18:54:30 GMT
To be fair, us being exception, out of any team that entered europe as the runners up in the FA cup, we are the only team in the past 15 years to make a decent fist of it, so I can see why they have transferred that place to the league positions, if the winner has already qualified
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 20, 2015 20:49:15 GMT
Spot on. The top two should qualify for the Champions League, and the winner of the FA Cup and the League Cup should get the other two spots. Europea League spots is done through a play-off between teams from third to eight in the league - it might add some excitement to the league. Disagree that ANY Cup winners should go into CL. Your chances of winning the FA and/or League Cup depend to a large extent on the luck of the draw - also you have only to win 6 games to win the FA Cup. You only have to look back at the draws we got in our FA Cup run to the Final. Unlike Lakeland, I would maintain that any team finishing in the Prem top four has more right to CL participation than a 6-game Cup chancer. Whilst European participation at some level remains the Holy Grail, then all competitions will be hostages to a qualification rule. Who has the right to play CL would be determined by the rules - if you change the rules then the winner has the right to play CL. If you don't win a cup or finish top two, you don't have the right. It would make for more entertaining cups and season-endings for the fans, and that's what should matter. Does the third-place team in the Championship have the right to play in the Premiershit? No, because the rules at the start of the season say you have to finish top two, or go into the play-offs. |
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Post by enuntio on Apr 20, 2015 21:04:51 GMT
So if the F.A. Cup winners also qualify for the champions league and the runners up don't qualify for the Europa League. Does that mean that finishing even further down the league will earn a chance of competing in the Europa League?
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Post by baystokie on Apr 20, 2015 21:23:12 GMT
Disagree that ANY Cup winners should go into CL. Your chances of winning the FA and/or League Cup depend to a large extent on the luck of the draw - also you have only to win 6 games to win the FA Cup. You only have to look back at the draws we got in our FA Cup run to the Final. Unlike Lakeland, I would maintain that any team finishing in the Prem top four has more right to CL participation than a 6-game Cup chancer. Whilst European participation at some level remains the Holy Grail, then all competitions will be hostages to a qualification rule. Who has the right to play CL would be determined by the rules - if you change the rules then the winner has the right to play CL. If you don't win a cup or finish top two, you don't have the right. It would make for more entertaining cups and season-endings for the fans, and that's what should matter. Does the third-place team in the Championship have the right to play in the Premiershit? No, because the rules at the start of the season say you have to finish top two, or go into the play-offs. I quite agree that who has the right is determined by the rules but you can change the rules to allow almost any qualification criteria - your rules, my rules, Lakeland's rules, UEFA's rules are all equally valid? Your comment about the benefits for fans would be something refreshingly new to FIFA, UEFA even our Prem/FA? Taking fans opinions/wishes into consideration would be a ground-breaking heresy in most boardrooms  |
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Apr 20, 2015 22:37:55 GMT
Who has the right to play CL would be determined by the rules - if you change the rules then the winner has the right to play CL. If you don't win a cup or finish top two, you don't have the right. It would make for more entertaining cups and season-endings for the fans, and that's what should matter. Does the third-place team in the Championship have the right to play in the Premiershit? No, because the rules at the start of the season say you have to finish top two, or go into the play-offs. I quite agree that who has the right is determined by the rules but you can change the rules to allow almost any qualification criteria - your rules, my rules, Lakeland's rules, UEFA's rules are all equally valid? Your comment about the benefits for fans would be something refreshingly new to FIFA, UEFA even our Prem/FA? Taking fans opinions/wishes into consideration would be a ground-breaking heresy in most boardrooms Oh, it aint gonna happen I know. Just what I would do given half a chance. |
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Post by tuum on Apr 21, 2015 0:47:49 GMT
Spot on. The top two should qualify for the Champions League, and the winner of the FA Cup and the League Cup should get the other two spots. Europea League spots is done through a play-off between teams from third to eight in the league - it might add some excitement to the league. Disagree that ANY Cup winners should go into CL. Your chances of winning the FA and/or League Cup depend to a large extent on the luck of the draw - also you have only to win 6 games to win the FA Cup. You only have to look back at the draws we got in our FA Cup run to the Final. Unlike Lakeland, I would maintain that any team finishing in the Prem top four has more right to CL participation than a 6-game Cup chancer. Whilst European participation at some level remains the Holy Grail, then all competitions will be hostages to a qualification rule. The team finishing 4th has no rights to qualify for the Champions League other than that is what the rule is. It is a nonsense rule designed to placate the big clubs and to create money for them. Top three + FA Cup winners is better overall for the game in England imo. Lakeland was making the point about raising the profile of the FA Cup which has played second fiddle since the PL was invented. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 11:12:29 GMT
how has it killed the FA Cup???
as far as i know no-one enters with the sole intention that they come second do they?
the vast majority of teams that enter know full well they have no chance of lifting the trophy but they enter anyway because of the dream (no matter how improbable) of winning it, not the dream of finishing runner up!
even though we qualified for Europe by losing the game, i still went home completely silent and pissed off that we'd lost.
it's like saying we may as well not enter the Prem every season because we're not going to be Champions
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obhstokie
Academy Starlet
Vis Unita Fortior
Posts: 230
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Post by obhstokie on Apr 21, 2015 11:27:39 GMT
So if the F.A. Cup winners also qualify for the champions league and the runners up don't qualify for the Europa League. Does that mean that finishing even further down the league will earn a chance of competing in the Europa League? Yes, so if Spurs finish 7th I think they need Arsenal to win the cup to put them into Europe! Because if Liverpool and Southampton finish 5th and 6th then it would be them two plus Villa in Europa! (I think) |
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Post by enuntio on Apr 22, 2015 9:01:19 GMT
What about promoting the top four to play a season long european league. Four extra places from the Championship?
It's going to come at some point. "Normal" teams can't compete with the super rich clubs and this financial fair play is utter tosh, it basically means no other teams are allowed to join the elite super rich clubs.
More to follow
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Post by Gods on Apr 22, 2015 9:07:59 GMT
What about promoting the top four to play a season long european league. Four extra places from the Championship? It's going to come at some point. "Normal" teams can't compete with the super rich clubs and this financial fair play is utter tosh, it basically means no other teams are allowed to join the elite super rich clubs. More to follow You can bet it is being considered, but it is what I fear the most. Finally after 23 years we get back in to the "Big Time" in English football and, guess what, the "Big Time" buggers off with their ball and plays with someone else  |
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Post by Staying up for Grandadstokey on Apr 22, 2015 9:25:49 GMT
What about promoting the top four to play a season long european league. Four extra places from the Championship? It's going to come at some point. "Normal" teams can't compete with the super rich clubs and this financial fair play is utter tosh, it basically means no other teams are allowed to join the elite super rich clubs. More to follow This will happen sooner or later and would it be such a bad thing? . Maybe we will never see a return to the days when an Ipswich or a Burnley could win the league,but it would make a slightly more even playing field. |
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