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Post by acstokie on Mar 31, 2015 13:26:38 GMT
Being quite a boring bastard, I have always been really interested in Stoke records and statistics. I had always thought that our leading goalscorer John Ritchie scored 171 goals for us, as that is what was always given for him in books etc. However when I looked at the official website and wikipedia, it has him down as scoring 176 for us. I also noticed that Greenhoff is down as scoring 103, but all our past books have said 97. Does anyone know what the the discrepancy is? The only thing i could see was that we now seem to count goals scored during the Anglo Italian cup and the Watney cup in the 70s, and the past books have not counted them. Does anyone know what the record is officially classed as.
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Post by Gods on Mar 31, 2015 14:51:11 GMT
Simon Lowe's Stoke City 101 greats has the following:
John Ritchie: 135 Football League 15 FA Cup 18 League Cup 8 Other
Which is 176 by my estimate which is the wiki number, not sure what is in "Other" though, it would need 5 of the 8 "Other" goals not to count for some reason to reach your original 171 number. "Other" could also be UEFA Cup of course. Perhaps UEFA counted, Watney and/or Anglo Italian didn't count in your original numbers, I don't know?
Jimmy Greenhoff: 76 Football League 11 FA Cup 9 league Cup 7 Other
Which is 103 by my estimate which is also the wiki number, this time it would need 6 of the 7 "Other" goals not to count to get to your original 97 number.
Overall I am sure the answer lies in how you apportion the "other" goals, wiki and the official site just bundle them all in. Personally I would count UEFA Cup but not Watney or Anglo Italian where entry is so selective and in truth they were little more than friendly games.
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Post by salopstick on Mar 31, 2015 15:20:39 GMT
It will never be broken
We would need someone scoring around 20 goals a season for 9 years at least
If we got that sort of striker big clubs would poach him
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Mar 31, 2015 16:03:57 GMT
They're probably goals from friendlies. At least that's my guess.
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Post by redandwhitetundra on Mar 31, 2015 16:20:16 GMT
If it helps, Ritchie scored three goals in the Anglo-Italian Cup in 1970/71 (very quick research). As it isn't generally recognised as a competitive first team competition, I imagine these would count in the 'Other' column with some statisticians using them (e.g. the Club) and others not.
Edit: He scored 2 in the AIC in 1971/72, and 2 in the Texaco Cup that year too. Scored 1 in the UEFA Cup in 1972/73.
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Post by acstokie on Mar 31, 2015 16:39:00 GMT
Its all a bit confusing, the Anglo Italian cups seems to count from the 90's but not the 70's, where as the Anglo Scottish Cup and the Texaco cup both seems to count in the 70's, but not the Watney cup?
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Post by Gods on Mar 31, 2015 16:53:53 GMT
They're probably goals from friendlies. At least that's my guess. Pretty sure it won't be friendlies or the 'Other' number would be much higher. Think Watney Cup, Anglo Italian, Texaco Cup, UEFA Cup etc. per the earlier messages.
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Post by baystokie on Mar 31, 2015 18:28:50 GMT
Simon Lowe's Stoke City 101 greats has the following: John Ritchie: 135 Football League 15 FA Cup 18 League Cup 8 Other Which is 176 by my estimate which is the wiki number, not sure what is in "Other" though, it would need 5 of the 8 "Other" goals not to count for some reason to reach your original 171 number. "Other" could also be UEFA Cup of course. Perhaps UEFA counted, Watney and/or Anglo Italian didn't count in your original numbers, I don't know? Jimmy Greenhoff: 76 Football League 11 FA Cup 9 league Cup 7 Other Which is 103 by my estimate which is also the wiki number, this time it would need 6 of the 7 "Other" goals not to count to get to your original 97 number. Overall I am sure the answer lies in how you apportion the "other" goals, wiki and the official site just bundle them all in. Personally I would count UEFA Cup but not Watney or Anglo Italian where entry is so selective and in truth they were little more than friendly games. Many of the games in the Anglo-Italian were anything BUT friendlies!
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 31, 2015 18:49:42 GMT
As an aside to the subject of the thread, the 71-72 season really was truely epic. The season kicked off in June 71 with the Anglo Italian cup completion. 70 competative games later the seasons last game was played a couple of weeks before the start of the next season In August 72 with the FA Cup 3rd place play off vs Birmingham. There are some stunning statistics as well, from a squad of 25 payers 9 of them played over 50 games and of those 6 played 59 or more with Jackie Marsh only missing 2 of the 71 games. We played Man Utd 7 times in league, FA and League Cup losing only once. The only down side of the season was losing to the Arse in the FA cup semi for the second time in consecutive seasons. it's hardly surprising that we finished weakly in the league with only 2 wins in the final 26 games from early November to the final league game. Had it not been for a decent start to the season we would have been relegated.
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