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Post by djduncanjames on Mar 30, 2015 21:01:58 GMT
He has won things mick, it doesn't matter where, I can name you plenty of managers who are good who've never won anything or even reached a final. Would you swap Hughes for Hodgson as Stoke manager?
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Post by geoff321 on Mar 30, 2015 21:04:31 GMT
No duncan but I would not be worried about Stoke if Hodgson was manager.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 30, 2015 21:05:29 GMT
He has won things mick, it doesn't matter where, I can name you plenty of managers who are good who've never won anything or even reached a final. Name them. Bearing in mind we are talking about the England job here.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 21:07:48 GMT
as regards winning things and choosing managers
for Stoke City - let alone our beloved national side
Marh Hughes or Roy Hodgson ===== NO CONTEST
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Post by geoff321 on Mar 30, 2015 21:15:28 GMT
Firstly mick do not underestimate Swedish football, England have done really badly against them for a number of years.
He won 5 successive league titles with Malmo and two Cup competitions.
He was runner up in the UEFA Cup with Inter Milan.
He won one Danish League title with Copenhagen and the cup competition.
I think he was the first Swiss national manager to take them to a World Cup.
He was a UEFA Cup runner up with Fulham.
Pretty impressive!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2015 21:16:27 GMT
Firstly mick do not underestimate Swedish football, England have done really badly against them for a number of years. He won 5 successive league titles with Malmo and two Cup competitions. He was runner up in the UEFA Cup with Inter Milan. He won two Danish League titles with Copenhagen. I think he was the first Swiss national manager to take them to a World Cup. He was a UEFA Cup runner up with Fulham. Pretty impressive! All very good but he is still a wank England manager
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Post by geoff321 on Mar 30, 2015 21:22:39 GMT
This is how I see it. If you created a PL side out of English players only and made JM manager and put them in the Champions League they would be lucky to get to the quarter finals.
We need to stop laying the blame on the manager and look for other issues, like we just don't currently have enough genuine world class players, why do you think the PL is full of foreigners?
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 30, 2015 21:35:33 GMT
This is how I see it. If you created a PL side out of English players only and made JM manager and put them in the Champions League they would be lucky to get to the quarter finals. We need to stop laying the blame on the manager and look for other issues, like we just don't currently have enough genuine world class players, why do you think the PL is full of foreigners? Now I can agree with you regarding the current poor crop but they would certainly have a better chance with JM in charge as he knows how to win unlike Hodgson. Oh and Swedish national league is dross. They currently have two of the national Swedish side playing their club football in Sweden and one of them is 38????
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Post by whereami on Mar 31, 2015 0:48:36 GMT
This is how I see it. If you created a PL side out of English players only and made JM manager and put them in the Champions League they would be lucky to get to the quarter finals. We need to stop laying the blame on the manager and look for other issues, like we just don't currently have enough genuine world class players, why do you think the PL is full of foreigners? "foreigners" aren't a country Geoff, they are people from many far away and strange lands, most of which would be lucky (at least) to field a team that could get to the champions league quarter finals. Unless, you think that teams like USA, Switzerland, Greece, Costa Rica, Mexico, Algeria, Nigeria, Uruguay or Colombia who all managed to get through the group stages in the world cup are somehow teams of world beaters?
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Post by sage on Mar 31, 2015 2:47:55 GMT
With Hodgson we are not building any sort of foundation for the future, which we sorely need. Beating Lithuania is one thing but we have been totally shite under him in every game that really matters. Woy is a delusional, negative footballing dinosaur who is quick to blame his players for any slips but will never accept any responsibility himself. We should be using this embarrassingly piss-easy qualifying group as an excellent opportunity to bed in an attractive, high-tempo, attacking style of play that will inspire youngsters and that utilises the strengths of the PL, standing us in good stead for the future. We are not. The owl will always be a defensive, safety-first manager, and this timidity gets the team shown up as soon as we come up against good opposition.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 3:08:51 GMT
Should Mark Hughes be judged on the poor F.A. Cup performances? Capello was sacked because of his poor performance at a World Cup. Which, in addition, we got further in than in last years shambles.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 3:09:53 GMT
I stand by if he wasn't English he'd have gone after the World Cup.
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Post by nik80 on Mar 31, 2015 5:34:20 GMT
It was Caulkers' first cap and he had 74 minutes facing one of the best strikers in the World, was he done like a kipper salop? I don't know if Ryan is good enough to be in the England squad, hopefully his performances with Stoke will get him a further call up. this is such a daft comment. Shawcross should have at lest been given the full 45 minutes. Coming on cold to make your debut, when England were already being stretched was very unfair. More so for a centre half than any other position, I'd argue. Intentionally or not, he was hung out to dry.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 7:14:19 GMT
Yes Nik, hung out to dry, and not given another chance. Probably exactly what Roy wanted. He is a tosser! You can bet that if Kane had a bad game, he would be given another chance.
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Post by geoff321 on Mar 31, 2015 7:47:28 GMT
I am not defending the performance of Roy Hodgson in the World Cup because although we were in a tough group we failed to qualify from it and Hodgson has to take some of the blame for that. Nor am I saying Ryan isn't good enough to play for England because I am not qualified to make a judgement on that.
Hodgson is English, he has a reasonable club record and has managed abroad, he also is the only England manager who has previous experience of managing another country, therefore it was fairly sensible to let him have a shot at doing the job.
Substitutes are part of the modern game and players can expect to be put on the pitch at any time in the match. Hodgson gave three players their chance after 74 minutes against a moderate Sweden side with a great centre forward and it backfired, he would then have to work out what went wrong and how each player performed.
As far as I know Caulker who scored a goal hasn't played for England since, some other subs haven't been picked again either so Hodgson was not simply picking out Ryan but was making a judgement on the whole team.
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Post by nik80 on Mar 31, 2015 13:40:46 GMT
I am not defending the performance of Roy Hodgson in the World Cup because although we were in a tough group we failed to qualify from it and Hodgson has to take some of the blame for that. Nor am I saying Ryan isn't good enough to play for England because I am not qualified to make a judgement on that. Hodgson is English, he has a reasonable club record and has managed abroad, he also is the only England manager who has previous experience of managing another country, therefore it was fairly sensible to let him have a shot at doing the job. Substitutes are part of the modern game and players can expect to be put on the pitch at any time in the match. Hodgson gave three players their chance after 74 minutes against a moderate Sweden side with a great centre forward and it backfired, he would then have to work out what went wrong and how each player performed. As far as I know Caulker who scored a goal hasn't played for England since, some other subs haven't been picked again either so Hodgson was not simply picking out Ryan but was making a judgement on the whole team. The first two paragraphs of this have next to nothing to do with the context of this thread Geoff. What I am saying is this; Ryan Shawcross made his international debut with around fifteen minutes of a game remaining, in a match which, whilst you argue England were winning, they most definitely at that stage were not in control of. As somebody else has already stated, and I will iterate; making a centre half come on cold and mark one of the world's finest centre forwards, who had by that point in the game really found his groove, was at best piss poor management, and at worst calculated and unfair. Shawcross had zero time to get into that game before it had slipped from England's grasp, and the following day some bastards in the national media went to town on our captain, essentially apportioning all blame at his feet. Letting him start the game or the second half would have been much fairer, in reality what Shawcross actually received was an almost impossible task for a debut, and has not been looked at since. And that my friend, is fucking wrong
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Post by skip on Mar 31, 2015 13:47:31 GMT
If we were interviewing for the job of England football manager, what do you think are desirable or essential qualities? • footballing philosophy • domestic cup success as player or manager • league success as player or manager • evidence of awareness of current international football methods • longevity of service • previous international management experience • experience of developing younger players
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 13:55:30 GMT
Ryan is in the top 3 English CB's and is without doubt the best defender, but he's been ignored by a vindictive old fool who puts his pride and media hype above what is right and for that reason alone I despise him. He is a failed manager at International level is inept tactically and is a hypocrite with his selection policy and has single handedly destroyed any pride and enjoyment I had in watching England play. He should have been sacked long ago and is theiving a living.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 14:01:31 GMT
Do we really think that when it comes down to the games that really matter, that England will succeed? I don't.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 14:06:59 GMT
Do we really think that when it comes down to the games that really matter, that England will succeed? I don't. Spot on
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Post by shrewspotter on Mar 31, 2015 14:18:15 GMT
If I was him I would play for Wales as it doesn't look like he will get a look in for England, besides I do have some Welsh heritage, BUT I am not him and when it comes to representing a country it is down to the individual, would I play for Wales, Yes, Scotland, No, Ireland, No..........I guess we are all different though
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 14:26:17 GMT
If I was him I would play for Wales as it doesn't look like he will get a look in for England, besides I do have some Welsh heritage, BUT I am not him and when it comes to representing a country it is down to the individual, would I play for Wales, Yes, Scotland, No, Ireland, No..........I guess we are all different though But he's English why would he play for any other Country, he's proud and wants to play for England, no way would I play for another Country and he wont either. He could be a "if only" player but thats his choice and he would not be the first see Alan Hudson and many others who failed to play regular International football but should have.
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Post by shrewspotter on Mar 31, 2015 14:44:12 GMT
If I was him I would play for Wales as it doesn't look like he will get a look in for England, besides I do have some Welsh heritage, BUT I am not him and when it comes to representing a country it is down to the individual, would I play for Wales, Yes, Scotland, No, Ireland, No..........I guess we are all different though But he's English why would he play for any other Country, he's proud and wants to play for England, no way would I play for another Country and he wont either. He could be a "if only" player but thats his choice and he would not be the first see Alan Hudson and many others who failed to play regular International football but should have. What I said was playing for a nation is a very personal choice, I am slightly biased towards Wales as my Father is Welsh. If he wants to play for England then that should be admired and respected
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Post by Davef on Mar 31, 2015 15:27:29 GMT
If I was him I would play for Wales as it doesn't look like he will get a look in for England, besides I do have some Welsh heritage, BUT I am not him and when it comes to representing a country it is down to the individual, would I play for Wales, Yes, Scotland, No, Ireland, No..........I guess we are all different though But he's English why would he play for any other Country, he's proud and wants to play for England, no way would I play for another Country and he wont either. He could be a "if only" player but thats his choice and he would not be the first see Alan Hudson and many others who failed to play regular International football but should have. Agree with this. I don't see why this Wales thing is even a subject for discussion. He's an Englishman, born in England, lives in England and works in England. Why would he want to play for Wales?
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Post by djduncanjames on Mar 31, 2015 15:55:23 GMT
Can he legally even play for Wales now? How does that even work? He has played for England already????
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Post by Plave on Mar 31, 2015 16:17:40 GMT
Can he legally even play for Wales now? How does that even work? He has played for England already???? Not in a competitive match which is what matters
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Post by geoff321 on Mar 31, 2015 16:39:36 GMT
I don't agree with any posters who say Hodgson was unfair to Ryan in asking him to come on for the final sixteen minutes against Sweden. If he had been selected for the World Cup squad, as most on here wanted, then he might well have been put in the position of coming on as a sub and marking top rate strikers.
It may be right to say Hodgson should have given Ryan another game for England, but that is another matter.
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Post by djduncanjames on Mar 31, 2015 16:42:38 GMT
Can he legally even play for Wales now? How does that even work? He has played for England already???? Not in a competitive match which is what matters So is this entire thread nonsense? He can't even play for Wales in a competitive match legally?
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Post by nik80 on Mar 31, 2015 17:36:57 GMT
I don't agree with any posters who say Hodgson was unfair to Ryan in asking him to come on for the final sixteen minutes against Sweden. If he had been selected for the World Cup squad, as most on here wanted, then he might well have been put in the position of coming on as a sub and marking top rate strikers. It may be right to say Hodgson should have given Ryan another game for England, but that is another matter. But surely you can agree that as debuts go, he was given a proper baptism of fire, whereas Steven Caulker got given the luxury of actually starting the match? Fair enough, in a competitive game, you may well be asked to come on as a sub with twenty minutes to play but generally speaking, you don't make subs of your centre halves unless pushed to and more critically I doubt whether you'd willingly ask one to make their England debut in that environment either. Friendly though it was, England were under pressure when Shawcross made his debut, he should have been given the full half yet now he's cast aside, and you really cannot grasp why the nature of his cameo performance makes that unfair?
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Post by butlerstbob on Mar 31, 2015 18:25:01 GMT
I don't agree with any posters who say Hodgson was unfair to Ryan in asking him to come on for the final sixteen minutes against Sweden. If he had been selected for the World Cup squad, as most on here wanted, then he might well have been put in the position of coming on as a sub and marking top rate strikers. It may be right to say Hodgson should have given Ryan another game for England, but that is another matter. I am sorry but you are wrong, very wrong! This was his DEBUT, and he was probably shitting bricks with pressure in front of the nation TV cameras etc! I do agree that he should be able to come on at any time in a big game and mark a top player BUT NOT ON HIS DEBUT! At least give the lad a run of games against the minnows of the world just like Cahill Smalling etc had, and not just chuck him in when we are under immense pressure friendly or no friendly! Woy knew what he was doing and so did everyone else apart from you! Staggering!!
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