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Post by Boothen on Mar 1, 2015 18:29:59 GMT
I'll just repost what I said yesterday in the Shitbrick thread.
Why are these people so protected from any manner of criticism? It's about fucking time that managers were allowed to say exactly what they think about the referee after a game, be that praise for a job well done or scathing criticism for being an inept Muppet and an embarrassment to the sport.
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Post by leicspotter on Mar 2, 2015 16:52:16 GMT
The time will come when in a highly charged game like a relegation battle when a fan will run on and smack a ref. when there's a lot of media focus on how shocking they've been this season I can see this maybe happening. then all you'd get is sympathy for the ref and big punishment for the home team club. ...and rightly so (sympathy for the ref etc.). His poor decisions in the last game are not responsible for the relegated teams poor performances over the previous 37 games. Refs are probably better now than they were 40 years ago. It is just that their mistakes are scrutinized much more now. Cut them some slack. Have a whinge and a moan about it and then move on to the next game. Poor refereeing decisions do not detract from my enjoyment of the match. On the contrary, they add to it. I have another reason to get over-emotional and let off some steam. Isn't that what it's all about? tuum - not sure thay are as good as you suggest, however, I can agree that it is a very difficult job, and we should 'cut them some slack'. Problem I have is that their organisation flatly refuses to accept that they EVER make any mistakes. If the ref could come out after the game and explain some of his decisions then maybe we would be a bit more tolerant...anyone can make a mistake, and if it is genuine, then fair dos, but to go on blindly believing (?) that they always get it right is just ludicrous
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Post by pedro23 on Mar 2, 2015 18:17:17 GMT
Virtually every other sport, involving a ball uses technology to assist referees. Surely someone can come up with something which would improve the utter shambles we are getting now. I find it disgusting a self styled expert ex referee fails to be critical of a career threatening tackle by justifying it as payback.
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Post by snapper23 on Mar 2, 2015 19:53:13 GMT
I've been watching football for nearly 50years at all levels from the Premier League to local village stuff and have refused and run he line when I was much younger. I actually think the real problem is the fact that the technology favours the broadcasters not the officials. They are on a hiding to nothing. I am ECB qualified cricket umpire and coach. Trust me, I would shit myself with video replays.
Cricket has at least embraced the tech at the highest level and made it something to help the game and the officials. At the moment the tech is used as a tool to beat the officials by the media in football.
They are human, they make mistakes and I won't bore on about parallax and the fact that even though Crouch was offside (sorry he was but I don't care) I defy the human eye to have picked it with the certainty that some want. In a season, these things will even out. You win some you lose some.
Soccer is not a static game and I really don't know if tech will help.
Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards
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moaty
Academy Starlet
Posts: 116
Location: Tomorrow land
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Post by moaty on Mar 2, 2015 20:09:44 GMT
Wait till you see the tit that refereed the shit v Blunderland. Sent off Wes brown instead of O'Shea. Utter fuckin useless incompetent cock Correct, thats the guy that also had a fucking shocker when we played fulham a few years back at craven cottage...
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Mar 2, 2015 21:49:44 GMT
Who will be 'awarding' the points? Who would be acceptable as the arbiter? The home manager? The away manager? Some 5th official up in the stands? The main problem is that current officials are monitored by their own association who are not prepared to sacrifice their members on the altar of incompetence (let alone corruption/stupidity/being bottlers). So nothing will happen until someone at the LMAO(?) grows a pair. Well after each game every decision would be analysed by a panel whether that be part of the FA or a separate body. cant be hard for some sort of scoring system to be made up, judging on correct decisions, wrong decisions, inconsistency ect. Be nice to see fresh referees from lower leagues step up and give the premiership abit of a shape up. people here might not like the idea of it but i genuinely think it would be better. Actually that pretty much happens now. For each PL game there is a referee assessor in the stand, who marks performance, and separately an experienced ex-referee watches the video of the full game and assesses every decision, so it's quite intensive. The elite group of referees meets twice a month when they look at videos to analyse controversial decisions. They are not monitored by their own association (the Referees Association) but by the PGMOL (Professional Game Match Officials Ltd), a body set up by the FA, PL & FL for that purpose. Refs are promoted to and relegated from the elite group. The technology debate is obviously a big one, world-wide and english football can't take that decision on its own. It's difficult because football doesn't naturally stop and start in the way cricket does for example. I would like to see it used more but I can understand the opposition. Personally, I doubt whether referees are any less competent than they have ever been. Years ago there were not TV replays so we could argue all night in the pub about whether the ref got it right, but there was no way of ever resolving it. Today we all have the benefit of seeing it multiple times in slomo from various angles before reaching our conclusion whereas the ref. saw it once at full speed from just one angle. No human being is ever going to get everything right. I'm actually surprised that they get as much right as they do. I think Stokies are beginning to get a tad obsessed with this topic. On a match day I'll get upset like everyone else at particular decisions ( it's part of the fun) but objectively, I don't think that overall we get any better or worse deals than anyone else. The supporters of almost every club are convinced that they've had a bad deal from refs this season, as they are every season ! It's human nature. None of us can see it objectively. We are all biased. Few of us are qualified referees. For any given decision almost all of us are farther away from it than the ref. Sometimes some of us will have a better angle than the ref. but most of us will have a worse angle. Refs. have good and bad days at the office. Just like players do. Just like all of us do in our day jobs. It's just part of the game. A while back everyone was complaining about refs being biased towards top clubs. This week everyone's saying that Mourinho was right. Can't both be right. I would like to see refs. coming on TV to explain their decisions and sometimes acknowledging that they got something wrong. I think it would help their image and also help to educate both fans and pundits, because often I think there is a lot of ignorance about what the laws and guidelines actually say. I would like to see commentators and pundits have to pass a test on the laws before they can do the job.
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Post by lordb on Mar 2, 2015 22:17:06 GMT
I think some of our support now believes their is a conspiracy against Stoke and the FA. Personally I believe refs are just not very good. With Webb and Halsey gone not sure there is any one ref who stands out as good.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 2, 2015 22:21:24 GMT
It is a problem which has been covered many times , and I am sure on many clubs' boards. oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/205299/impossible-jobFor me technology and possibly more officials at each game to assist the ref are part of the answer. Also in fairness to the Refs football is the only sport I can think of where it is acceptable for players to constantly abuse/undermine/swear at the ref and attempt to cheat, without serious repercussions
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Post by spongebobflathead on Mar 2, 2015 22:35:57 GMT
Well after each game every decision would be analysed by a panel whether that be part of the FA or a separate body. cant be hard for some sort of scoring system to be made up, judging on correct decisions, wrong decisions, inconsistency ect. Be nice to see fresh referees from lower leagues step up and give the premiership abit of a shape up. people here might not like the idea of it but i genuinely think it would be better. Actually that pretty much happens now. For each PL game there is a referee assessor in the stand, who marks performance, and separately an experienced ex-referee watches the video of the full game and assesses every decision, so it's quite intensive. The elite group of referees meets twice a month when they look at videos to analyse controversial decisions. They are not monitored by their own association (the Referees Association) but by the PGMOL (Professional Game Match Officials Ltd), a body set up by the FA, PL & FL for that purpose. Refs are promoted to and relegated from the elite group. The technology debate is obviously a big one, world-wide and english football can't take that decision on its own. It's difficult because football doesn't naturally stop and start in the way cricket does for example. I would like to see it used more but I can understand the opposition. Personally, I doubt whether referees are any less competent than they have ever been. Years ago there were not TV replays so we could argue all night in the pub about whether the ref got it right, but there was no way of ever resolving it. Today we all have the benefit of seeing it multiple times in slomo from various angles before reaching our conclusion whereas the ref. saw it once at full speed from just one angle. No human being is ever going to get everything right. I'm actually surprised that they get as much right as they do. I think Stokies are beginning to get a tad obsessed with this topic. On a match day I'll get upset like everyone else at particular decisions ( it's part of the fun) but objectively, I don't think that overall we get any better or worse deals than anyone else. The supporters of almost every club are convinced that they've had a bad deal from refs this season, as they are every season ! It's human nature. None of us can see it objectively. We are all biased. Few of us are qualified referees. For any given decision almost all of us are farther away from it than the ref. Sometimes some of us will have a better angle than the ref. but most of us will have a worse angle. Refs. have good and bad days at the office. Just like players do. Just like all of us do in our day jobs. It's just part of the game. A while back everyone was complaining about refs being biased towards top clubs. This week everyone's saying that Mourinho was right. Can't both be right. I would like to see refs. coming on TV to explain their decisions and sometimes acknowledging that they got something wrong. I think it would help their image and also help to educate both fans and pundits, because often I think there is a lot of ignorance about what the laws and guidelines actually say. I would like to see commentators and pundits have to pass a test on the laws before they can do the job. The laughable thing is Malcolm the pgmol representative at the Chelsea v burnley game reckons that Atkinson got ALL THE DECISIONS correct , it just looses all credibility when such pally pally shite is spouted , it's farcical !
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2015 22:46:12 GMT
Well after each game every decision would be analysed by a panel whether that be part of the FA or a separate body. cant be hard for some sort of scoring system to be made up, judging on correct decisions, wrong decisions, inconsistency ect. Be nice to see fresh referees from lower leagues step up and give the premiership abit of a shape up. people here might not like the idea of it but i genuinely think it would be better. Actually that pretty much happens now. For each PL game there is a referee assessor in the stand, who marks performance, and separately an experienced ex-referee watches the video of the full game and assesses every decision, so it's quite intensive. The elite group of referees meets twice a month when they look at videos to analyse controversial decisions. They are not monitored by their own association (the Referees Association) but by the PGMOL (Professional Game Match Officials Ltd), a body set up by the FA, PL & FL for that purpose. Refs are promoted to and relegated from the elite group. The technology debate is obviously a big one, world-wide and english football can't take that decision on its own. It's difficult because football doesn't naturally stop and start in the way cricket does for example. I would like to see it used more but I can understand the opposition. Personally, I doubt whether referees are any less competent than they have ever been. Years ago there were not TV replays so we could argue all night in the pub about whether the ref got it right, but there was no way of ever resolving it. Today we all have the benefit of seeing it multiple times in slomo from various angles before reaching our conclusion whereas the ref. saw it once at full speed from just one angle. No human being is ever going to get everything right. I'm actually surprised that they get as much right as they do. I think Stokies are beginning to get a tad obsessed with this topic. On a match day I'll get upset like everyone else at particular decisions ( it's part of the fun) but objectively, I don't think that overall we get any better or worse deals than anyone else. The supporters of almost every club are convinced that they've had a bad deal from refs this season, as they are every season ! It's human nature. None of us can see it objectively. We are all biased. Few of us are qualified referees. For any given decision almost all of us are farther away from it than the ref. Sometimes some of us will have a better angle than the ref. but most of us will have a worse angle. Refs. have good and bad days at the office. Just like players do. Just like all of us do in our day jobs. It's just part of the game. A while back everyone was complaining about refs being biased towards top clubs. This week everyone's saying that Mourinho was right. Can't both be right. I would like to see refs. coming on TV to explain their decisions and sometimes acknowledging that they got something wrong. I think it would help their image and also help to educate both fans and pundits, because often I think there is a lot of ignorance about what the laws and guidelines actually say. I would like to see commentators and pundits have to pass a test on the laws before they can do the job. The decision to book Pieters and Moses for complete nothing challenges but not book Meyler (?) in between for hacking down Moses as he cut inside towards the box was just out and out terrible refereeing. When players are taking throw ins BEFORE the ref and assistant ref can come to a decision as happened twice in the 2nd half it's just rank bad officiating. Michael Oliver penalising Shawcross for a tug on Bony, then turning a blind eye on half a dozen occasions for the same offence in the Man Utd v Chelsea game is not fair refereeing. Refs are too over familiar with certain players, usually ones from the bigger clubs, and I honestly believe it clouds their judgement. There's a small band that are arrogant egomaniacs who set their stall out in certain games before a ball has even being kicked I'm totally convinced of it.......
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Post by hartzchoco on Mar 2, 2015 23:04:26 GMT
Legitimate question: Is there a referee out there that people would qualify as good? Who is the best referee? Is there even such a thing?
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Post by spongebobflathead on Mar 2, 2015 23:25:34 GMT
Legitimate question: Is there a referee out there that people would qualify as good? Who is the best referee? Is there even such a thing? Craig pawson , let's the game flow with common sense The worst probably Chris Foy , refs the game according to whom is playing , having said that mariner and Atkinson are just inept ,you just don't know what your going to get , inconsistent to a shocking degree
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Post by pedro23 on Mar 3, 2015 0:19:05 GMT
Personally I would disagree with the view that Referees are really no worse than they have ever been. Video replays have been in existence for many years now. Yes you probably get a camera view coming out of a players backside now a days, but overall officiating this season has been appalling. So many times at the weekend the discussion is not about the football, but the latest batch of head scratching decisions. There has always been debate, usually when a decision goes against your team, and that's fine, but what we are seeing now is Atkinson, Oliver, the Clown at our game on Saturday, Foy and most of the rest making the headlines because of basic incompetence.
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Post by kustokie on Mar 3, 2015 2:05:28 GMT
Well after each game every decision would be analysed by a panel whether that be part of the FA or a separate body. cant be hard for some sort of scoring system to be made up, judging on correct decisions, wrong decisions, inconsistency ect. Be nice to see fresh referees from lower leagues step up and give the premiership abit of a shape up. people here might not like the idea of it but i genuinely think it would be better. Actually that pretty much happens now. For each PL game there is a referee assessor in the stand, who marks performance, and separately an experienced ex-referee watches the video of the full game and assesses every decision, so it's quite intensive. The elite group of referees meets twice a month when they look at videos to analyse controversial decisions. They are not monitored by their own association (the Referees Association) but by the PGMOL (Professional Game Match Officials Ltd), a body set up by the FA, PL & FL for that purpose. Refs are promoted to and relegated from the elite group. The technology debate is obviously a big one, world-wide and english football can't take that decision on its own. It's difficult because football doesn't naturally stop and start in the way cricket does for example. I would like to see it used more but I can understand the opposition. Personally, I doubt whether referees are any less competent than they have ever been. Years ago there were not TV replays so we could argue all night in the pub about whether the ref got it right, but there was no way of ever resolving it. Today we all have the benefit of seeing it multiple times in slomo from various angles before reaching our conclusion whereas the ref. saw it once at full speed from just one angle. No human being is ever going to get everything right. I'm actually surprised that they get as much right as they do. I think Stokies are beginning to get a tad obsessed with this topic. On a match day I'll get upset like everyone else at particular decisions ( it's part of the fun) but objectively, I don't think that overall we get any better or worse deals than anyone else. The supporters of almost every club are convinced that they've had a bad deal from refs this season, as they are every season ! It's human nature. None of us can see it objectively. We are all biased. Few of us are qualified referees. For any given decision almost all of us are farther away from it than the ref. Sometimes some of us will have a better angle than the ref. but most of us will have a worse angle. Refs. have good and bad days at the office. Just like players do. Just like all of us do in our day jobs. It's just part of the game. A while back everyone was complaining about refs being biased towards top clubs. This week everyone's saying that Mourinho was right. Can't both be right. I would like to see refs. coming on TV to explain their decisions and sometimes acknowledging that they got something wrong. I think it would help their image and also help to educate both fans and pundits, because often I think there is a lot of ignorance about what the laws and guidelines actually say. I would like to see commentators and pundits have to pass a test on the laws before they can do the job.
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Post by kustokie on Mar 3, 2015 2:08:28 GMT
I agree with everything you said with one excepion. The potentially career ending foul on Stephen Ireland that ocurred right under the noses of the referee and assistant was no fun at all.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 3, 2015 2:18:48 GMT
Legitimate question: Is there a referee out there that people would qualify as good? Who is the best referee? Is there even such a thing? Mr Clattenberg for me. Now let him prove me wrong on Wednesday.
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Post by mynamesnotmark on Mar 3, 2015 12:04:33 GMT
Doesn't help the refs when they have linesman who are scared of making a decision,
Some linesman won't even indicate which team has the throw in until the ref has pointed in the direction he think
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Post by Northy on May 19, 2015 14:00:02 GMT
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