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Post by jstoke7 on Dec 16, 2014 17:06:46 GMT
I can't get my head around the fact that you're more bothered about the style of football than Stoke City FC. My passion - Football My favourite team - Stoke When I see my passion (football) played in a way that I find tedious and boring of course I'm going to lose interest, it's natural, even if it is my club. For me anyway.
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Post by tazi on Dec 16, 2014 17:08:10 GMT
You've got me wrong again. Stick to moaning about your football club. You're way better at that than guessing my profession. It's nothing to do with what I enjoy. I just get fed up of Stoke City supporters telling me how terrible it was under Tony Pulis. I want Stoke City to be the best they can be. I've said what a fantastic job Mark Hughes is doing. I can see a terrific team in there. We have played some amazing football under MH. He's assembled the most talented squad of players I've seen at Stoke since I was a kid. But nobody is going to tell me we didn't have some great times under TP as well. Fantastic games, fantastic memories. He gave us Ricardo Fuller, one of the most entertaining footballers I've ever seen. When he arrived we were bottom of the Championship, and he left us as a solid mid table premier league team. A rise up the leagues of some 30 odd places. Getting Stoke City into the Premier League was a dream. Keeping us there was a miracle. SilkyStokie refers to the "shite Pulis gave us" and has his little picture of half of Wembley red and white at the FA Cup final. You couldn't make it up! To continue your Tory politician theme and paraphrase Churchill, "Some gift. Some shite." I'm not going to change your mind. Some of you are too deeply entrenched in a pointless war of style and personalities. Most real Stoke City supporters will be "forever grateful" to Tony Pulis and Peter Coates, though some will never be big enough to admit they might just have been wrong about our previous manager. What do you think we would achieve if we gave Hughes 20M a year to spend? Sorry to interupt but considering at least three of the signings that's he's made appear to not being in the slightest bit interested in repaying that faith that he showed in them when signing them then I wouldn't trust him with £20 let alone £20 million because quite frankly it's evident on that pitch that he couldn't organise a piss up let alone a bloody TEAM.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Dec 16, 2014 17:26:06 GMT
Apologies Pugs on two counts. Thought I'd covered the Swansea/Bradford thing. I said Swansea had done amazingly well. Better than us in terms of style and a trophy won. Interesting that Laudrup went a little more direct though. As for Monk, the jury's still out. I think they are probably in a false position at the moment, and they may struggle over the next couple of seasons.
Secondly, you're right about "real" Stoke City supporters. I've no right to say that and we all support our team in whichever way we like. That was out of order and I take that back. The "Forever Grateful" quote was from the famous banner - I honestly believe that is the view of the majority of Stoke City supporters. (Not my banner I should add.)
Onlooker, for what it's worth, I think MH will do a brilliant job whether he has £20m per season or not. I felt some loyalty towards TP and wasn't sure about MH after the QPR fiasco but he is clearly a talented manager. As it is, he's inherited an established and talented Premier League squad, so the need to invest in the squad is less pressing.
Pulis had to build one from scratch. Like all managers he made some mistakes, but on the whole I think 7 years in the Prem from that starting point is good value for money, particularly when you throw in a demanding Europa League campaign.
The bottom line is that I have no trouble saying I'm delighted that we've now got MH and I'm enjoying the football, some of which has been brilliant. I'm really positive about the future too.
But I can also recognise the massive achievements of the previous manager, and acknowledge that he gave us some great days and a fantastic journey back to the top flight.
That's all. Take a deep breath and try it. It's simply the reality of the situation. Maybe I'm actually a therapist and can help you move on and leave you with only happy memories of 2002 - 2013.
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Post by wearestoke80 on Dec 16, 2014 17:36:46 GMT
I can't get my head around the fact that you're more bothered about the style of football than Stoke City FC. My passion - Football My favourite team - Stoke When I see my passion (football) played in a way that I find tedious and boring of course I'm going to lose interest, it's natural, even if it is my club. For me anyway. But surely you would rather win playing boring football rather than play well and lose?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Dec 16, 2014 17:40:36 GMT
I can't get my head around the fact that you're more bothered about the style of football than Stoke City FC. My passion - Football My favourite team - Stoke When I see my passion (football) played in a way that I find tedious and boring of course I'm going to lose interest, it's natural, even if it is my club. For me anyway. Fair enough. It's a shame it spoiled your enjoyment of a tremendous period in our history.
Not for me though. Stoke City first, all day long.
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Post by tazi on Dec 16, 2014 17:47:19 GMT
I can't get my head around the fact that you're more bothered about the style of football than Stoke City FC. My passion - Football My favourite team - Stoke When I see my passion (football) played in a way that I find tedious and boring of course I'm going to lose interest, it's natural, even if it is my club. For me anyway. All sounds a bit fair weather, for me anyway.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 16, 2014 19:42:53 GMT
Hmmmmmm.....agreed re. Hughes but I kinda enjoyed a lot of TPs "shite". Promotion, staying up, being the bollocks at home for long spells, going to Wembley. Twice. Was it really all that bad? Depends on opinion. Pulis years with us in the Prem were the most disassociated I've ever felt to Stoke and I'm sure some others feel the same way. The way in which we played and set up, the predictability of pretty much every goal being either a Set Piece or Knock on/Scramble just didn't do it for me, just as I'm sure some of passing football under Hughes doesn't do it for them. Did you feel disassociated when beating Arse, Chelsea, Citeh....defying the odds to stay up and prove all the doubters wrong.....winning our first ever FA Cup semi by battering Bolton???? Did you really? Honestly? Or are you perhaps allowing his less impressive final seasons to colour your opinion? No problem with valid criticism of Pulis but exaggerated shite like that is as bad as any Pulis love in.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 19:57:14 GMT
Apologies Pugs on two counts. Thought I'd covered the Swansea/Bradford thing. I said Swansea had done amazingly well. Better than us in terms of style and a trophy won. Interesting that Laudrup went a little more direct though. As for Monk, the jury's still out. I think they are probably in a false position at the moment, and they may struggle over the next couple of seasons. Secondly, you're right about "real" Stoke City supporters. I've no right to say that and we all support our team in whichever way we like. That was out of order and I take that back. The "Forever Grateful" quote was from the famous banner - I honestly believe that is the view of the majority of Stoke City supporters. (Not my banner I should add.) Onlooker, for what it's worth, I think MH will do a brilliant job whether he has £20m per season or not. I felt some loyalty towards TP and wasn't sure about MH after the QPR fiasco but he is clearly a talented manager. As it is, he's inherited an established and talented Premier League squad, so the need to invest in the squad is less pressing. Pulis had to build one from scratch. Like all managers he made some mistakes, but on the whole I think 7 years in the Prem from that starting point is good value for money, particularly when you throw in a demanding Europa League campaign. The bottom line is that I have no trouble saying I'm delighted that we've now got MH and I'm enjoying the football, some of which has been brilliant. I'm really positive about the future too. But I can also recognise the massive achievements of the previous manager, and acknowledge that he gave us some great days and a fantastic journey back to the top flight. That's all. Take a deep breath and try it. It's simply the reality of the situation. Maybe I'm actually a therapist and can help you move on and leave you with only happy memories of 2002 - 2013. I enjoyed the ride to the Premiership and slowly stopped enjoying it when we got there. We slowly replaced all of the good signings made in the Championship for players that were not much better (bar the odd example) and it cost us millions. The players we had left have zero sell on value bar two odd exceptions that would kill us if we ever sold them. It's a sure sign that the transfer system failed miserably. Pulis never heeded his own advice that he regularly told us during his first period, when he routinely said he could bring in a bus load of players tomorrow but they were no better than what we had. Well he did bring them in and they were no better than what we had and we'll never see that money again. To cap it all off (no pun intended) he hammered those players into his stupidly rigid system and slowly created a team that still smacked the ball into the channels, not for a fully firing Ricardo Fuller to turn into magic, but for a 6'7" beanpole that can't run with an overweight scottish midfielder flapping about behind him. He spent, for example, 32M on Dave Kitson, Peter Crouch, Kenwyne Jones, Jon Walters and Cameron Jerome + wages on Eidur Gudjohnsen and Michael Owen and not one pairing of that lot came anywhere near close to the Sidibe/Fuller partnership that cost 500k. Why? He spent, for example, 5M replacing Liam Lawrence, who was bombed out for no reason, and ended up with a converted centre half on the right wing. Why? After all of the money spent we never ended up with a proper full back on either flank, and had to endure an embarrassing attempt to convert an ex Real Madrid centre half to a full back by giving him DVD's of Gary Neville to watch - culminating in him being shown up as a complete donkey by an ex Gillingham winger at Wolves. Why? He spent 9M on trying to bring in a number 10 to his system but ended up flogging Jon Walters to death. Why? He had a 15 goal a season striker but bombed him out after slapping the nut on him in the showers. Why? He spent 7M on 4 players that played only 38 games between them over 3 seasons. Why? I never thought i'd see my team in an FA Cup Final. Thank you. I never thought I'd see my team in Europe. Thank you. I never thought i'd see my team on MOTD. A thousand thank you's. You kept us in the league and the money generated kind of pays the bills.... ...but it could have been soo much better. That money could have been invested and not spent. The tactics and training could have been developed over time to make the team and coaching staff more rounded. Youth team players could have been developed far more than they have with proper youth coaches paid for from just two or three of those 4 players that played less than 38 games between them. A proper scouting system could have been set up from the money used to buy Dave Kitson, a bloke who never played as many games as a full Premier League season for us in 2 seasons. You could go on and on. I'm not an unreasonable bloke. I'll stand by any bloke that tries to improve but is going through a bad patch and suchlike. What I won't defend is laziness and our ex manager had it in bucket loads by the time he left the club. Have a problem you can't fix? Reach for the cheque book and buy another 5M player that doesn't fit into the system but can revert to type and smack it up the pitch for a free kick. He had a legacy. He stayed too long and wrecked it.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 16, 2014 20:01:59 GMT
Apologies Pugs on two counts. Thought I'd covered the Swansea/Bradford thing. I said Swansea had done amazingly well. Better than us in terms of style and a trophy won. Interesting that Laudrup went a little more direct though. As for Monk, the jury's still out. I think they are probably in a false position at the moment, and they may struggle over the next couple of seasons. Secondly, you're right about "real" Stoke City supporters. I've no right to say that and we all support our team in whichever way we like. That was out of order and I take that back. The "Forever Grateful" quote was from the famous banner - I honestly believe that is the view of the majority of Stoke City supporters. (Not my banner I should add.) Onlooker, for what it's worth, I think MH will do a brilliant job whether he has £20m per season or not. I felt some loyalty towards TP and wasn't sure about MH after the QPR fiasco but he is clearly a talented manager. As it is, he's inherited an established and talented Premier League squad, so the need to invest in the squad is less pressing. Pulis had to build one from scratch. Like all managers he made some mistakes, but on the whole I think 7 years in the Prem from that starting point is good value for money, particularly when you throw in a demanding Europa League campaign. The bottom line is that I have no trouble saying I'm delighted that we've now got MH and I'm enjoying the football, some of which has been brilliant. I'm really positive about the future too. But I can also recognise the massive achievements of the previous manager, and acknowledge that he gave us some great days and a fantastic journey back to the top flight. That's all. Take a deep breath and try it. It's simply the reality of the situation. Maybe I'm actually a therapist and can help you move on and leave you with only happy memories of 2002 - 2013. I enjoyed the ride to the Premiership and slowly stopped enjoying it when we got there. We slowly replaced all of the good signings made in the Championship for players that were not much better (bar the odd example) and it cost us millions. The players we had left have zero sell on value bar two odd exceptions that would kill us if we ever sold them. It's a sure sign that the transfer system failed miserably. Pulis never heeded his own advice that he regularly told us during his first period, when he routinely said he could bring in a bus load of players tomorrow but they were no better than what we had. Well he did bring them in and they were no better than what we had and we'll never see that money again. To cap it all off (no pun intended) he hammered those players into his stupidly rigid system and slowly created a team that still smacked the ball into the channels, not for a fully firing Ricardo Fuller to turn into magic, but for a 6'7" beanpole that can't run with an overweight scottish midfielder flapping about behind him. He spent, for example, 32M on Dave Kitson, Peter Crouch, Kenwyne Jones, Jon Walters and Cameron Jerome + wages on Eidur Gudjohnsen and Michael Owen and not one pairing of that lot came anywhere near close to the Sidibe/Fuller partnership that cost 500k. Why? He spent, for example, 5M replacing Liam Lawrence, who was bombed out for no reason, and ended up with a converted centre half on the right wing. Why? After all of the money spent we never ended up with a proper full back on either flank, and had to endure an embarrassing attempt to convert an ex Real Madrid centre half to a full back by giving him DVD's of Gary Neville to watch - culminating in him being shown up as a complete donkey by an ex Gillingham winger at Wolves. Why? He spent 9M on trying to bring in a number 10 to his system but ended up flogging Jon Walters to death. Why? He had a 15 goal a season striker but bombed him out after slapping the nut on him in the showers. Why? He spent 7M on 4 players that played only 38 games between them over 3 seasons. Why? I never thought i'd see my team in an FA Cup Final. Thank you. I never thought I'd see my team in Europe. Thank you. I never thought i'd see my team on MOTD. A thousand thank you's. You kept us in the league and the money generated kind of pays the bills.... ...but it could have been soo much better. That money could have been invested and not spent. The tactics and training could have been developed over time to make the team and coaching staff more rounded. Youth team players could have been developed far more than they have with proper youth coaches paid for from just two or three of those 4 players that played less than 38 games between them. A proper scouting system could have been set up from the money used to buy Dave Kitson, a bloke who never played as many games as a full Premier League season for us in 2 seasons. You could go on and on. I'm not an unreasonable bloke. I'll stand by any bloke that tries to improve but is going through a bad patch and suchlike. What I won't defend is laziness and our ex manager had it in bucket loads by the time he left the club. Have a problem you can't fix? Reach for the cheque book and buy another 5M player that doesn't fit into the system but can revert to type and smack it up the pitch for a free kick. He had a legacy. He stayed too long and wrecked it. I don't agree with all of that but it's a valid point of view and balanced. Unlike some of the nonsense spouted by others. Pulis is marmite no doubt about it but even his detractors have to recognise his achievements.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 20:09:14 GMT
I enjoyed the ride to the Premiership and slowly stopped enjoying it when we got there. We slowly replaced all of the good signings made in the Championship for players that were not much better (bar the odd example) and it cost us millions. The players we had left have zero sell on value bar two odd exceptions that would kill us if we ever sold them. It's a sure sign that the transfer system failed miserably. Pulis never heeded his own advice that he regularly told us during his first period, when he routinely said he could bring in a bus load of players tomorrow but they were no better than what we had. Well he did bring them in and they were no better than what we had and we'll never see that money again. To cap it all off (no pun intended) he hammered those players into his stupidly rigid system and slowly created a team that still smacked the ball into the channels, not for a fully firing Ricardo Fuller to turn into magic, but for a 6'7" beanpole that can't run with an overweight scottish midfielder flapping about behind him. He spent, for example, 32M on Dave Kitson, Peter Crouch, Kenwyne Jones, Jon Walters and Cameron Jerome + wages on Eidur Gudjohnsen and Michael Owen and not one pairing of that lot came anywhere near close to the Sidibe/Fuller partnership that cost 500k. Why? He spent, for example, 5M replacing Liam Lawrence, who was bombed out for no reason, and ended up with a converted centre half on the right wing. Why? After all of the money spent we never ended up with a proper full back on either flank, and had to endure an embarrassing attempt to convert an ex Real Madrid centre half to a full back by giving him DVD's of Gary Neville to watch - culminating in him being shown up as a complete donkey by an ex Gillingham winger at Wolves. Why? He spent 9M on trying to bring in a number 10 to his system but ended up flogging Jon Walters to death. Why? He had a 15 goal a season striker but bombed him out after slapping the nut on him in the showers. Why? He spent 7M on 4 players that played only 38 games between them over 3 seasons. Why? I never thought i'd see my team in an FA Cup Final. Thank you. I never thought I'd see my team in Europe. Thank you. I never thought i'd see my team on MOTD. A thousand thank you's. You kept us in the league and the money generated kind of pays the bills.... ...but it could have been soo much better. That money could have been invested and not spent. The tactics and training could have been developed over time to make the team and coaching staff more rounded. Youth team players could have been developed far more than they have with proper youth coaches paid for from just two or three of those 4 players that played less than 38 games between them. A proper scouting system could have been set up from the money used to buy Dave Kitson, a bloke who never played as many games as a full Premier League season for us in 2 seasons. You could go on and on. I'm not an unreasonable bloke. I'll stand by any bloke that tries to improve but is going through a bad patch and suchlike. What I won't defend is laziness and our ex manager had it in bucket loads by the time he left the club. Have a problem you can't fix? Reach for the cheque book and buy another 5M player that doesn't fit into the system but can revert to type and smack it up the pitch for a free kick. He had a legacy. He stayed too long and wrecked it. I don't agree with all of that but it's a valid point of view and balanced. Unlike some of the nonsense spouted by others. Pulis is marmite no doubt about it but even his detractors have to recognise his achievements. That's the ultimate frustration mate. I don't dislike the bloke, as a bloke, at all. His charity work for a community he has no attachment to other than his job is nothing short of exemplary and above and beyond. I just hated his style of football when he had no real excuse to play that way and hated the way he ended up going about his business in the transfer market at the back end of his time here - something we are now dreadfully regretting and is putting huge pressure on the bloke that has replaced him. Then to top it all off we have supporters who say that anyone who doesn't worship his every move is bang out of order, an ungrateful so and so and not a true supporter! Anyways, you'll all be pleased to know that this is the last time i'll talk about the bloke. I've had my fill. Bookmark this and i'll gladly give a tenner to the DLT every time I mention him. Call it a swear box if you like.
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Post by tazi on Dec 16, 2014 20:14:54 GMT
Onlooker.
Why don't you answer why?.
I suspect that you cannot unless of course you're Tony bloody Pulis.
Edit - I'd just settle for how you know Liam Lawrence was booted out for no reason and how you could hate his style even when Pulisball was at its finest I just don't know.
Answer it mate and mention Pulis, I'll gladly drop you a tenner off at the DLT.
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Post by Northy on Dec 16, 2014 20:47:53 GMT
I can't believe I've wasted valuable data downloading another fruitless squabble
Sent from my D5503 using proboards
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Post by stokemanusa on Dec 16, 2014 20:49:19 GMT
Pulis to Brighton by the Sea will be the Straightest play in town on show.
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Post by tazi on Dec 16, 2014 20:54:22 GMT
Pulis to Brighton by the Sea will be the Straightest play in town on show. He could walk on it.
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Post by Silkystoke on Dec 17, 2014 14:15:17 GMT
Pulis = Past Hughes = Future 100% behind Mark and the boys... there will be problems and fuck ups, but its more fun than watching that shite Pulis gave us... What a stupid post Pulis is one of the clubs best ever managers, in terms of achievements and that's all you have to say? Get a grip the guy did a great job, i didnt say he didnt but his football tactics were shocking towards the end, he should of gone 12/18 months earlier... thanks for your reply Anthony
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Post by tazi on Dec 17, 2014 14:27:55 GMT
Pulis = Past Hughes = Future 100% behind Mark and the boys... there will be problems and fuck ups, but its more fun than watching that shite Pulis gave us... Fook me prefer watch barclays adverts.
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Post by timbo1988 on Dec 17, 2014 14:32:44 GMT
Apologies Pugs on two counts. Thought I'd covered the Swansea/Bradford thing. I said Swansea had done amazingly well. Better than us in terms of style and a trophy won. Interesting that Laudrup went a little more direct though. As for Monk, the jury's still out. I think they are probably in a false position at the moment, and they may struggle over the next couple of seasons. Secondly, you're right about "real" Stoke City supporters. I've no right to say that and we all support our team in whichever way we like. That was out of order and I take that back. The "Forever Grateful" quote was from the famous banner - I honestly believe that is the view of the majority of Stoke City supporters. (Not my banner I should add.) Onlooker, for what it's worth, I think MH will do a brilliant job whether he has £20m per season or not. I felt some loyalty towards TP and wasn't sure about MH after the QPR fiasco but he is clearly a talented manager. As it is, he's inherited an established and talented Premier League squad, so the need to invest in the squad is less pressing. Pulis had to build one from scratch. Like all managers he made some mistakes, but on the whole I think 7 years in the Prem from that starting point is good value for money, particularly when you throw in a demanding Europa League campaign. The bottom line is that I have no trouble saying I'm delighted that we've now got MH and I'm enjoying the football, some of which has been brilliant. I'm really positive about the future too. But I can also recognise the massive achievements of the previous manager, and acknowledge that he gave us some great days and a fantastic journey back to the top flight. That's all. Take a deep breath and try it. It's simply the reality of the situation. Maybe I'm actually a therapist and can help you move on and leave you with only happy memories of 2002 - 2013. I enjoyed the ride to the Premiership and slowly stopped enjoying it when we got there. We slowly replaced all of the good signings made in the Championship for players that were not much better (bar the odd example) and it cost us millions. The players we had left have zero sell on value bar two odd exceptions that would kill us if we ever sold them. It's a sure sign that the transfer system failed miserably. Pulis never heeded his own advice that he regularly told us during his first period, when he routinely said he could bring in a bus load of players tomorrow but they were no better than what we had. Well he did bring them in and they were no better than what we had and we'll never see that money again. To cap it all off (no pun intended) he hammered those players into his stupidly rigid system and slowly created a team that still smacked the ball into the channels, not for a fully firing Ricardo Fuller to turn into magic, but for a 6'7" beanpole that can't run with an overweight scottish midfielder flapping about behind him. He spent, for example, 32M on Dave Kitson, Peter Crouch, Kenwyne Jones, Jon Walters and Cameron Jerome + wages on Eidur Gudjohnsen and Michael Owen and not one pairing of that lot came anywhere near close to the Sidibe/Fuller partnership that cost 500k. Why? He spent, for example, 5M replacing Liam Lawrence, who was bombed out for no reason, and ended up with a converted centre half on the right wing. Why? After all of the money spent we never ended up with a proper full back on either flank, and had to endure an embarrassing attempt to convert an ex Real Madrid centre half to a full back by giving him DVD's of Gary Neville to watch - culminating in him being shown up as a complete donkey by an ex Gillingham winger at Wolves. Why? He spent 9M on trying to bring in a number 10 to his system but ended up flogging Jon Walters to death. Why? He had a 15 goal a season striker but bombed him out after slapping the nut on him in the showers. Why? He spent 7M on 4 players that played only 38 games between them over 3 seasons. Why? I never thought i'd see my team in an FA Cup Final. Thank you. I never thought I'd see my team in Europe. Thank you. I never thought i'd see my team on MOTD. A thousand thank you's. You kept us in the league and the money generated kind of pays the bills.... ...but it could have been soo much better. That money could have been invested and not spent. The tactics and training could have been developed over time to make the team and coaching staff more rounded. Youth team players could have been developed far more than they have with proper youth coaches paid for from just two or three of those 4 players that played less than 38 games between them. A proper scouting system could have been set up from the money used to buy Dave Kitson, a bloke who never played as many games as a full Premier League season for us in 2 seasons. You could go on and on. I'm not an unreasonable bloke. I'll stand by any bloke that tries to improve but is going through a bad patch and suchlike. What I won't defend is laziness and our ex manager had it in bucket loads by the time he left the club. Have a problem you can't fix? Reach for the cheque book and buy another 5M player that doesn't fit into the system but can revert to type and smack it up the pitch for a free kick. He had a legacy. He stayed too long and wrecked it. This is spot on for me and the signing of Peter Crouch for such a large fee was the moment it all fell apart for TP. Yes he did waste money up until the cup final season but he had started to create a good partnership with Jones and Walters and could use Fuller to replace either or (moving Jones to the deeper role), he played proper wingers for most of that season and we started to look like we could progress. He then un did all the good work the next season, Crouch came and we never looked the same team going forward. I still do not understand what he saw in Crouch to think it could work, all the strikers he has had success with have had movement, strength and are good in the air. The deeper striker works very hard, the more advanced Fuller role is quicker and has more ability. When he deviates from this he sees the forwards struggle and I never understood why he could not see this. We needed a Demba Ba, Wilfred Bony type, had he got them I think he still might have been here. He needed 4 wingers and the more pace the more effective in his system (i.e. Bolassie and Puncheon). And when he played proper full backs they always looked miles better than centre backs who played there but why did he never see this? He was so good at organising a defence and at set pieces then he would have won points with that along as he did. He would also have improved away from home if we had pace in the front four and the quality improved. He should have looked abroad for transfers and found better versions of the players he had but had the same characteristics.
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Post by jstoke7 on Dec 17, 2014 14:39:35 GMT
Depends on opinion. Pulis years with us in the Prem were the most disassociated I've ever felt to Stoke and I'm sure some others feel the same way. The way in which we played and set up, the predictability of pretty much every goal being either a Set Piece or Knock on/Scramble just didn't do it for me, just as I'm sure some of passing football under Hughes doesn't do it for them. Did you feel disassociated when beating Arse, Chelsea, Citeh....defying the odds to stay up and prove all the doubters wrong.....winning our first ever FA Cup semi by battering Bolton???? Did you really? Honestly? Or are you perhaps allowing his less impressive final seasons to colour your opinion? No problem with valid criticism of Pulis but exaggerated shite like that is as bad as any Pulis love in. It's a bloody personal opinion and how the football under Pulis made me feel, I couldn't help it. Why is it so hard to understand, I would of loved to have enjoyed it all to the same level you obviously did, but it just didn't do it for me. Fair enough?
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Post by timbo1988 on Dec 17, 2014 14:57:32 GMT
The football under Hughes is much better and going forward is more enjoyable to watch by a mile (Apart from the fact Fuller is ten times the player Crouch is). How weak our defence is and how bad we are at set pieces frustrates the hell out of me though. I would like a mixture of the 2 but if we had that we would be in the Top 6.
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Post by tazi on Dec 17, 2014 15:09:11 GMT
That Citeh match was absolutely amazing, down to 10 men and showing plenty of skill and fighting spirit to go on and record a 1.0 win. Etherington down the wing, inch perfect cross for Beattie who then finished with aplomb. Tommy Sorrenson hugging Beattie afterwards eptomised how everyone felt in that ground 'well maybe not quite all'.
As for Arsenal, well any victory over them is just an amazing feeling the scummy twats.
That Bolton semi final was quite something else and one of if not the best ever performance in following Stoke City for over 40 years and was absolutely amazing and as for Citeh in the final we showed a lot of grit and determination whilst getting well and truly fcuked over both during that match and in the build up to it too.
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Post by RAF on Dec 17, 2014 16:16:48 GMT
I bet the Brighton fans can't wait to get Pulis in. I remember their fuckwitted elitist opinion of both our team and Pulis last time our teams crossed. I wish them nothing but failure.
H
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 17:02:52 GMT
Top bloke and club legend.
Glad he left when he did though!
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 17, 2014 19:05:23 GMT
Did you feel disassociated when beating Arse, Chelsea, Citeh....defying the odds to stay up and prove all the doubters wrong.....winning our first ever FA Cup semi by battering Bolton???? Did you really? Honestly? Or are you perhaps allowing his less impressive final seasons to colour your opinion? No problem with valid criticism of Pulis but exaggerated shite like that is as bad as any Pulis love in. It's a bloody personal opinion and how the football under Pulis made me feel, I couldn't help it. Why is it so hard to understand, I would of loved to have enjoyed it all to the same level you obviously did, but it just didn't do it for me. Fair enough? No its not. At times we played exhilarating, exciting and entertaining stuff under Pulis. If you can't even bring yourself to acknowledge that some of the stuff we played under Pulis was decent then I can't take you seriously. Sorry.
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Post by jstoke7 on Dec 17, 2014 19:24:43 GMT
It's a bloody personal opinion and how the football under Pulis made me feel, I couldn't help it. Why is it so hard to understand, I would of loved to have enjoyed it all to the same level you obviously did, but it just didn't do it for me. Fair enough? No its not. At times we played exhilarating, exciting and entertaining stuff under Pulis. If you can't even bring yourself to acknowledge that some of the stuff we played under Pulis was decent then I can't take you seriously. Sorry. Of course we had games where we played some decent stuff, don't get where you are going with this (?). It's how his ethos and style made me feel in general towards the club.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 17, 2014 19:31:30 GMT
No its not. At times we played exhilarating, exciting and entertaining stuff under Pulis. If you can't even bring yourself to acknowledge that some of the stuff we played under Pulis was decent then I can't take you seriously. Sorry. Of course we had games where we played some decent stuff, don't get where you are going with this (?). It's how his ethos and style made me feel in general towards the club. I'm just struggling to get my head around how arguably our finest spell in the last forty years could cause somebody such pain. The last couple of seasons, in large part, fair enough. But the seasons before?? I don't get it.
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Post by roylandstoke on Dec 17, 2014 19:39:32 GMT
What do you think we would achieve if we gave Hughes 20M a year to spend? Sorry to interupt but considering at least three of the signings that's he's made appear to not being in the slightest bit interested in repaying that faith that he showed in them when signing them then I wouldn't trust him with £20 let alone £20 million because quite frankly it's evident on that pitch that he couldn't organise a piss up let alone a bloody TEAM. I'm getting mixed up now; are you refering to Andrew Davies, Tom Soares and Michael Tonge or Dave Kitson, Eidur Gudjohnson and Michael Owen?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Dec 18, 2014 14:32:19 GMT
Apologies Pugs on two counts. Thought I'd covered the Swansea/Bradford thing. I said Swansea had done amazingly well. Better than us in terms of style and a trophy won. Interesting that Laudrup went a little more direct though. As for Monk, the jury's still out. I think they are probably in a false position at the moment, and they may struggle over the next couple of seasons. Secondly, you're right about "real" Stoke City supporters. I've no right to say that and we all support our team in whichever way we like. That was out of order and I take that back. The "Forever Grateful" quote was from the famous banner - I honestly believe that is the view of the majority of Stoke City supporters. (Not my banner I should add.) Onlooker, for what it's worth, I think MH will do a brilliant job whether he has £20m per season or not. I felt some loyalty towards TP and wasn't sure about MH after the QPR fiasco but he is clearly a talented manager. As it is, he's inherited an established and talented Premier League squad, so the need to invest in the squad is less pressing. Pulis had to build one from scratch. Like all managers he made some mistakes, but on the whole I think 7 years in the Prem from that starting point is good value for money, particularly when you throw in a demanding Europa League campaign. The bottom line is that I have no trouble saying I'm delighted that we've now got MH and I'm enjoying the football, some of which has been brilliant. I'm really positive about the future too. But I can also recognise the massive achievements of the previous manager, and acknowledge that he gave us some great days and a fantastic journey back to the top flight. That's all. Take a deep breath and try it. It's simply the reality of the situation. Maybe I'm actually a therapist and can help you move on and leave you with only happy memories of 2002 - 2013. I enjoyed the ride to the Premiership and slowly stopped enjoying it when we got there. We slowly replaced all of the good signings made in the Championship for players that were not much better (bar the odd example) and it cost us millions. The players we had left have zero sell on value bar two odd exceptions that would kill us if we ever sold them. It's a sure sign that the transfer system failed miserably. Pulis never heeded his own advice that he regularly told us during his first period, when he routinely said he could bring in a bus load of players tomorrow but they were no better than what we had. Well he did bring them in and they were no better than what we had and we'll never see that money again. To cap it all off (no pun intended) he hammered those players into his stupidly rigid system and slowly created a team that still smacked the ball into the channels, not for a fully firing Ricardo Fuller to turn into magic, but for a 6'7" beanpole that can't run with an overweight scottish midfielder flapping about behind him. He spent, for example, 32M on Dave Kitson, Peter Crouch, Kenwyne Jones, Jon Walters and Cameron Jerome + wages on Eidur Gudjohnsen and Michael Owen and not one pairing of that lot came anywhere near close to the Sidibe/Fuller partnership that cost 500k. Why? He spent, for example, 5M replacing Liam Lawrence, who was bombed out for no reason, and ended up with a converted centre half on the right wing. Why? After all of the money spent we never ended up with a proper full back on either flank, and had to endure an embarrassing attempt to convert an ex Real Madrid centre half to a full back by giving him DVD's of Gary Neville to watch - culminating in him being shown up as a complete donkey by an ex Gillingham winger at Wolves. Why? He spent 9M on trying to bring in a number 10 to his system but ended up flogging Jon Walters to death. Why? He had a 15 goal a season striker but bombed him out after slapping the nut on him in the showers. Why? He spent 7M on 4 players that played only 38 games between them over 3 seasons. Why? I never thought i'd see my team in an FA Cup Final. Thank you. I never thought I'd see my team in Europe. Thank you. I never thought i'd see my team on MOTD. A thousand thank you's. You kept us in the league and the money generated kind of pays the bills.... ...but it could have been soo much better. That money could have been invested and not spent. The tactics and training could have been developed over time to make the team and coaching staff more rounded. Youth team players could have been developed far more than they have with proper youth coaches paid for from just two or three of those 4 players that played less than 38 games between them. A proper scouting system could have been set up from the money used to buy Dave Kitson, a bloke who never played as many games as a full Premier League season for us in 2 seasons. You could go on and on. I'm not an unreasonable bloke. I'll stand by any bloke that tries to improve but is going through a bad patch and suchlike. What I won't defend is laziness and our ex manager had it in bucket loads by the time he left the club. Have a problem you can't fix? Reach for the cheque book and buy another 5M player that doesn't fit into the system but can revert to type and smack it up the pitch for a free kick. He had a legacy. He stayed too long and wrecked it. Great post and I think you've got it all off your chest! You've picked up on every perceived negative of his management! Life ain't perfect. There is no Utopia. Elite sports management is complex. In terms of results and performance, I think there are only Southampton and Swansea who may have done better.
Is your problem with Pulis or the imbalanced Premiership? It's a tough league to survive, and for sure he reverted back to type and made us hard to beat, particularly when things weren't going well. But that has helped to build the foundations for where we are now. All part of the journey, and like I said before, there are a lot of clubs desperately trying to do the same, and failing. That journey also gave us all some terrific memories, as you acknowledged.
I thought that Kitson, Palacios, Tuncay and Kightly would be fantastic signings for us. Didn't work out. I think that Crouch has been excellent for us. Didn't Crystal Palace pay £12m for Dwight Gale? £11m Shane Long? £8m Cornelius? The money is insane and it's a huge gamble. But our absolute Crown Jewels of Ryan and Bego were bought for about £4m, and you can add Whelan, Huth, Higgy, Beattie, Etherington, Lawrence, Wilson, Walters, N'Zonzi etc as other superb signings.
The group dynamic must have contributed to Beattie and Lawrence leaving. Fergie famously split up McGrath, Whiteside and Robson, deciding he could only keep one. He let World Class players like Ince, Keane, Stam and Beckham go for the sake of team harmony. As it is, you could argue both Beattie and Lawrence were finished and didn't really do anything after Stoke City.
The Premier League is such a different proposition to the Championship, as Leicester, Burnley and QPR are discovering. There is no point comparing the success of Premier League strikers to Championship strikers. Richard Creswell, prolific in the lower leagues, no goals in the Prem. It is nearly impossible to build a successful Premier League strike partnership on our budget. I think he hoped to recreate the Crouch/Van der Vaart partnership with Adam. We needed (and still need?) more guile to break down defensive teams at home. I'm also convinced he was never able to replace Etherington, Pennant and Fuller on our budget. I believe he tried (and generally succeeded) to improve us all the time, and I think your lazy accusation is very harsh.
The academy was probably a luxury/long term, future project at that time for us. Mourinho has questioned the Chelsea academy last week because it just doesn't produce good enough players. Similarly, our South American scouting adventure looks to have been a bit of a failure.
You are right. Maybe it could have been better if he had achieved perfection, been a World Class coach and never made a mistake or had less wage and status restraints. But we are Stoke City.
For me anyway, it wasn't too bad, especially compared to the previous 20 years or so. Like Foxy says, it seems harsh to dismiss all those brilliant memories by dwelling on the negatives.
I respect your view and have enjoyed the debate. We'll have to agree to disagree and see things differently. I'll let it go too, enjoy my memories and look forward to a bright future for Stoke City.
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Post by RAF on Dec 18, 2014 14:58:52 GMT
Of course we had games where we played some decent stuff, don't get where you are going with this (?). It's how his ethos and style made me feel in general towards the club. I'm just struggling to get my head around how arguably our finest spell in the last forty years could cause somebody such pain. The last couple of seasons, in large part, fair enough. But the seasons before?? I don't get it. You don't have to get it, it's his personal opinion, leave the poor fucker alone, it's almost becoming stalking material. H
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Post by davejohnno1 on Dec 18, 2014 15:25:32 GMT
Depends on opinion. Pulis years with us in the Prem were the most disassociated I've ever felt to Stoke and I'm sure some others feel the same way. The way in which we played and set up, the predictability of pretty much every goal being either a Set Piece or Knock on/Scramble just didn't do it for me, just as I'm sure some of passing football under Hughes doesn't do it for them. Did you feel disassociated when beating Arse, Chelsea, Citeh....defying the odds to stay up and prove all the doubters wrong.....winning our first ever FA Cup semi by battering Bolton???? Did you really? Honestly? Or are you perhaps allowing his less impressive final seasons to colour your opinion? No problem with valid criticism of Pulis but exaggerated shite like that is as bad as any Pulis love in. We never beat Chelsea under the stewardship of Tony Pulis. Had Pulis left, for whatever reason, after the cup final he would have enjoyed absolute legendary status the no-one could have disputed. Thereafter he had funds to really tranform our club, the type of money clubs like ours only get once in a generation, and he blew it, tarnishing his legacy/status in the process in my opinion. The last 2 years of his stewardship was torturous and it didn't need to be like that. Valencia away was unforgiveable and the beginning of the end.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 15:33:56 GMT
I enjoyed the ride to the Premiership and slowly stopped enjoying it when we got there. We slowly replaced all of the good signings made in the Championship for players that were not much better (bar the odd example) and it cost us millions. The players we had left have zero sell on value bar two odd exceptions that would kill us if we ever sold them. It's a sure sign that the transfer system failed miserably. Pulis never heeded his own advice that he regularly told us during his first period, when he routinely said he could bring in a bus load of players tomorrow but they were no better than what we had. Well he did bring them in and they were no better than what we had and we'll never see that money again. To cap it all off (no pun intended) he hammered those players into his stupidly rigid system and slowly created a team that still smacked the ball into the channels, not for a fully firing Ricardo Fuller to turn into magic, but for a 6'7" beanpole that can't run with an overweight scottish midfielder flapping about behind him. He spent, for example, 32M on Dave Kitson, Peter Crouch, Kenwyne Jones, Jon Walters and Cameron Jerome + wages on Eidur Gudjohnsen and Michael Owen and not one pairing of that lot came anywhere near close to the Sidibe/Fuller partnership that cost 500k. Why? He spent, for example, 5M replacing Liam Lawrence, who was bombed out for no reason, and ended up with a converted centre half on the right wing. Why? After all of the money spent we never ended up with a proper full back on either flank, and had to endure an embarrassing attempt to convert an ex Real Madrid centre half to a full back by giving him DVD's of Gary Neville to watch - culminating in him being shown up as a complete donkey by an ex Gillingham winger at Wolves. Why? He spent 9M on trying to bring in a number 10 to his system but ended up flogging Jon Walters to death. Why? He had a 15 goal a season striker but bombed him out after slapping the nut on him in the showers. Why? He spent 7M on 4 players that played only 38 games between them over 3 seasons. Why? I never thought i'd see my team in an FA Cup Final. Thank you. I never thought I'd see my team in Europe. Thank you. I never thought i'd see my team on MOTD. A thousand thank you's. You kept us in the league and the money generated kind of pays the bills.... ...but it could have been soo much better. That money could have been invested and not spent. The tactics and training could have been developed over time to make the team and coaching staff more rounded. Youth team players could have been developed far more than they have with proper youth coaches paid for from just two or three of those 4 players that played less than 38 games between them. A proper scouting system could have been set up from the money used to buy Dave Kitson, a bloke who never played as many games as a full Premier League season for us in 2 seasons. You could go on and on. I'm not an unreasonable bloke. I'll stand by any bloke that tries to improve but is going through a bad patch and suchlike. What I won't defend is laziness and our ex manager had it in bucket loads by the time he left the club. Have a problem you can't fix? Reach for the cheque book and buy another 5M player that doesn't fit into the system but can revert to type and smack it up the pitch for a free kick. He had a legacy. He stayed too long and wrecked it. Great post and I think you've got it all off your chest! You've picked up on every perceived negative of his management! Life ain't perfect. There is no Utopia. Elite sports management is complex. In terms of results and performance, I think there are only Southampton and Swansea who may have done better.
Is your problem with Pulis or the imbalanced Premiership? It's a tough league to survive, and for sure he reverted back to type and made us hard to beat, particularly when things weren't going well. But that has helped to build the foundations for where we are now. All part of the journey, and like I said before, there are a lot of clubs desperately trying to do the same, and failing. That journey also gave us all some terrific memories, as you acknowledged.
I thought that Kitson, Palacios, Tuncay and Kightly would be fantastic signings for us. Didn't work out. I think that Crouch has been excellent for us. Didn't Crystal Palace pay £12m for Dwight Gale? £11m Shane Long? £8m Cornelius? The money is insane and it's a huge gamble. But our absolute Crown Jewels of Ryan and Bego were bought for about £4m, and you can add Whelan, Huth, Higgy, Beattie, Etherington, Lawrence, Wilson, Walters, N'Zonzi etc as other superb signings.
The group dynamic must have contributed to Beattie and Lawrence leaving. Fergie famously split up McGrath, Whiteside and Robson, deciding he could only keep one. He let World Class players like Ince, Keane, Stam and Beckham go for the sake of team harmony. As it is, you could argue both Beattie and Lawrence were finished and didn't really do anything after Stoke City.
The Premier League is such a different proposition to the Championship, as Leicester, Burnley and QPR are discovering. There is no point comparing the success of Premier League strikers to Championship strikers. Richard Creswell, prolific in the lower leagues, no goals in the Prem. It is nearly impossible to build a successful Premier League strike partnership on our budget. I think he hoped to recreate the Crouch/Van der Vaart partnership with Adam. We needed (and still need?) more guile to break down defensive teams at home. I'm also convinced he was never able to replace Etherington, Pennant and Fuller on our budget. I believe he tried (and generally succeeded) to improve us all the time, and I think your lazy accusation is very harsh.
The academy was probably a luxury/long term, future project at that time for us. Mourinho has questioned the Chelsea academy last week because it just doesn't produce good enough players. Similarly, our South American scouting adventure looks to have been a bit of a failure.
You are right. Maybe it could have been better if he had achieved perfection, been a World Class coach and never made a mistake or had less wage and status restraints. But we are Stoke City.
For me anyway, it wasn't too bad, especially compared to the previous 20 years or so. Like Foxy says, it seems harsh to dismiss all those brilliant memories by dwelling on the negatives.
I respect your view and have enjoyed the debate. We'll have to agree to disagree and see things differently. I'll let it go too, enjoy my memories and look forward to a bright future for Stoke City.
Top man. Id love to reply properly but it'll cost me a tenner and my nipper needs a new shirt for christmas.
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