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Post by redstriper on Dec 8, 2014 17:06:08 GMT
Spot on....,! Sfance uses big words but I let him off as he's a professor of English and head of a major Yankie University . He's completely fucking useless at everything else though , apart from fucking abite with trains and annoying me. I'm yet to hear a reasoned response based on any form of logic or understanding. It seems to me that there is a lot of snobbery going on, all I've heard from those who don't like him, look at the women he's shagged, look at the big words he uses, look at the way he dresses, he's a hypocrite because he's rich and famous etc and none of these things are in any way relevant to the things he's been saying. Can anyone tell me what it is that he's saying that isn't a true reflection of what is happening? For example whilst I think a lot of what he says makes sense and is right, I actually disagree with him about not voting. But other than that I can't see much else about what he says that doesn't make sense, after all he's suggesting that we make changes in order to prevent inequality and to make things fairer, and who here can honestly say that they would be against that? I've no problem with much of what he says, there's nothing new, nothing that a lot of people haven't been saying for years He is just another self publicising celeb, he is no better qualified to talk politics than people in my local pub. He is not some sort of messiah/leader. And there's the added disadvantages of looking a hypocrite because he is part of the establishment when it suits him, and also being an uttercunt. Love him as much as you like, it's a free country, but don't expect those of us who are older and know a bullshitter when we see one to have any truck with your love in.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 8, 2014 18:04:22 GMT
I'm yet to hear a reasoned response based on any form of logic or understanding. It seems to me that there is a lot of snobbery going on, all I've heard from those who don't like him, look at the women he's shagged, look at the big words he uses, look at the way he dresses, he's a hypocrite because he's rich and famous etc and none of these things are in any way relevant to the things he's been saying. Can anyone tell me what it is that he's saying that isn't a true reflection of what is happening? For example whilst I think a lot of what he says makes sense and is right, I actually disagree with him about not voting. But other than that I can't see much else about what he says that doesn't make sense, after all he's suggesting that we make changes in order to prevent inequality and to make things fairer, and who here can honestly say that they would be against that? I've no problem with much of what he says, there's nothing new, nothing that a lot of people haven't been saying for years He is just another self publicising celeb, he is no better qualified to talk politics than people in my local pub. He is not some sort of messiah/leader. And there's the added disadvantages of looking a hypocrite because he is part of the establishment when it suits him, and also being an uttercunt. Love him as much as you like, it's a free country, but don't expect those of us who are older and know a bullshitter when we see one to have any truck with your love in. You are contradicting yourself massively here, you say you haven't got a problem with much of what he says and then accuse him 'bullshitting'. Sorry but what is he bullshitting about exactly? Your issue appears to be whether or not he is 'qualified' to talk about such things, well I'd argue he's just as qualified as anyone else on this planet to bring up and debate issues concerning our society, you don't have to have gone to Oxford University or have studied politics your whole life to know that something is wrong with the system, the arguments he puts forward are well reasoned and make sense and so I challenge you to give me examples of where he is 'bullshitting'. Other points you make regarding him being a self-publicising celeb and a messiah/leader are also not relevant, if you want to criticise him for debating the pitfalls of society you've got to criticise everyone who does so. You can't just dismiss what he's saying purely because he's a celebrity and because he's rich in the current system. He didn't have to become politically active, his career wasn't on the wane, I'm sure if wanted to he could have carried on doing stand-up and making movies and carried on making a fortune without getting involved in anything remotely political. Its for this reason that I have respect for what he's doing. He's not doing it for the money because he could have easily made it from other means that have nothing to with talking about politics (incidentally he hasn't taken a penny from his book Revolution, he's helping drug addicts in rehab and doing things for charity) You've correctly identified that he's not saying anything that hasn't been said before, the key point here is that unfortunately these views aren't usually promoted through the mainstream media (and if they are then you've got to do some serious searching to find them) therefore they aren't widely held views within our society. It's actually a really sad reflection of our society that the people who have long been putting forward the same views as Russell Brand haven't had their voices heard. The irony is that through gaining notoriety as a celebrity Russell Brand is actually in a far more influential position than the vast majority of philosophical thinkers that have long been debating this. He's got 8.7 million followers on twitter, his subscriptions to his YouTube channel 'The Trews' are going up and up all the time so he's in an ideal position, and perfectly qualified to talk about these things. More and more people are becoming aware of the problems in our society and Brand can take some responsibility for that because if he wasn't doing what he is some people would be completely unaware of these issues. The government and the majority of the mainstream media aren't even publicising, promoting or identifying these issues, let alone coming up with solutions to stop or solve them. Unless you're disagreeing with the points he's making (which it seems you aren't) then I don't see any logic or rationale in the points you're making. He's actively pushing for a fairer system where wealth is distributed more evenly, and where corporate power doesn't set the political agendas etc.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Dec 8, 2014 18:37:05 GMT
I've no problem with much of what he says, there's nothing new, nothing that a lot of people haven't been saying for years He is just another self publicising celeb, he is no better qualified to talk politics than people in my local pub. He is not some sort of messiah/leader. And there's the added disadvantages of looking a hypocrite because he is part of the establishment when it suits him, and also being an uttercunt. Love him as much as you like, it's a free country, but don't expect those of us who are older and know a bullshitter when we see one to have any truck with your love in. You are contradicting yourself massively here, you say you haven't got a problem with much of what he says and then accuse him 'bullshitting'. Sorry but what is he bullshitting about exactly? Your issue appears to be whether or not he is 'qualified' to talk about such things, well I'd argue he's just as qualified as anyone else on this planet to bring up and debate issues concerning our society, you don't have to have gone to Oxford University or have studied politics your whole life to know that something is wrong with the system, the arguments he puts forward are well reasoned and make sense and so I challenge you to give me examples of where he is 'bullshitting'. Other points you make regarding him being a self-publicising celeb and a messiah/leader are also not relevant, if you want to criticise him for debating the pitfalls of society you've got to criticise everyone who does so. You can't just dismiss what he's saying purely because he's a celebrity and because he's rich in the current system. He didn't have to become politically active, his career wasn't on the wane, I'm sure if wanted to he could have carried on doing stand-up and making movies and carried on making a fortune without getting involved in anything remotely political. Its for this reason that I have respect for what he's doing. He's not doing it for the money because he could have easily made it from other means that have nothing to with talking about politics (incidentally he hasn't taken a penny from his book Revolution, he's helping drug addicts in rehab and doing things for charity) You've correctly identified that he's not saying anything that hasn't been said before, the key point here is that unfortunately these views aren't usually promoted through the mainstream media (and if they are then you've got to do some serious searching to find them) therefore they aren't widely held views within our society. It's actually a really sad reflection of our society that the people who have long been putting forward the same views as Russell Brand haven't had their voices heard. The irony is that through gaining notoriety as a celebrity Russell Brand is actually in a far more influential position than the vast majority of philosophical thinkers that have long been debating this. He's got 8.7 million followers on twitter, his subscriptions to his YouTube channel 'The Trews' are going up and up all the time so he's in an ideal position, and perfectly qualified to talk about these things. More and more people are becoming aware of the problems in our society and Brand can take some responsibility for that because if he wasn't doing what he is some people would be completely unaware of these issues. The government and the majority of the mainstream media aren't even publicising, promoting or identifying these issues, let alone coming up with solutions to stop or solve them. Unless you're disagreeing with the points he's making (which it seems you aren't) then I don't see any logic or rationale in the points you're making. He's actively pushing for a fairer system where wealth is distributed more evenly, and where corporate power doesn't set the political agendas etc. You're forgetting the golden rule - once someone does anything remotely different, they automatically become a self-centered, egotistical cunt who must be getting something out of it themselves. Or why would they be doing it? Tall-poppy syndrome strikes again.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 8, 2014 18:40:52 GMT
At the end of the day we live in a Society that has free speech so Brand is quite right to say what he believes...Sol Campbell recently said he'd vote Tory because they'd reduce his taxes. He is an absolute cunt in my opinion. A selfish bastard of the highest order. But he has the right to be one. And I have the right to detest him.
I suspect that if Brand was an ugly little fucker no one would pay any attention to what he said but he isn't..he has a captive audience and he knows it. If One Direction announced they were all voting Monster Raving Loony they would probably be in Government in 6 months time...Nothing to do with Politics..all about personality.
And that is why I dislike the current hysteria over Brand...it's not what he says deep down that's important..its who he is. A celebrity with one massive ego.
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Post by str8outtahampton on Dec 8, 2014 18:58:25 GMT
I would be staggered if anyone on here has met the bloke, so any view on his character is highly subjective.
However, he has never (to my knowledge) ever said anything that is remotely funny. That is a statement of fact.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 8, 2014 19:06:25 GMT
At the end of the day we live in a Society that has free speech so Brand is quite right to say what he believes...Sol Campbell recently said he'd vote Tory because they'd reduce his taxes. He is an absolute cunt in my opinion. A selfish bastard of the highest order. But he has the right to be one. And I have the right to detest him. I suspect that if Brand was an ugly little fucker no one would pay any attention to what he said but he isn't..he has a captive audience and he knows it. If One Direction announced they were all voting Monster Raving Loony they would probably be in Government in 6 months time...Nothing to do with Politics..all about personality. And that is why I dislike the current hysteria over Brand...it's not what he says deep down that's important..its who he is. A celebrity with one massive ego. Promoting equality and coming across a genuinely thoughtful, nice and caring guy. I can see how you've reached the conclusion that he's an absolute cunt and its all about his ego (NOT) You're also making terrible, nonsensical comparisons with Sol Campbell and One Direction that have absolutely nothing to do with the context of this debate.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 8, 2014 19:17:38 GMT
I would be staggered if anyone on here has met the bloke, so any view on his character is highly subjective. However, he has never (to my knowledge) ever said anything that is remotely funny. That is a statement of fact. You don't have to have met the bloke to know his thought process, he's written a book and done about 200+ episodes of The Trews. Ironically most of the people criticsing him on here and elsewhere won't actually have bothered to read or watch what he's got to say.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 8, 2014 20:05:15 GMT
Promoting equality and coming across a genuinely thoughtful, nice and caring guy. I can see how you've reached the conclusion that he's an absolute cunt and its all about his ego (NOT) You're also making terrible, nonsensical comparisons with Sol Campbell and One Direction that have absolutely nothing to do with the context of this debate. On the contrary...they have everything to do with this debate. The point I'm making, which you fail to address, is that personality is more important than politics. It isn't Brands politics that attracts admirers, such as yourself, it's his looks and celebrity. I get the distinct impression that some of his 'followers' would beleive anything that he said. Thank God he doesn't support Arsenal. Completely disagree, I've asked a few people if they can come up with a reasoned argument as to why they think what he's saying is wrong. So far no-one has been able to do it including yourself. Instead they've deflected as you are making points regarding his celeb status and personality. I've said it before, don't focus on who he is focus on what he's saying.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 8, 2014 20:23:00 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30383784Russell Brand has thrown himself into political activism recently but a YouGov poll of 2,000 people found he's the celebrity seen as having the most "negative influence" on political debate.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 8, 2014 20:26:03 GMT
'Personality and politics are inextricably linked' Discuss (No more than 1500 words) I'm not denying that they aren't linked, of course they are. However are you basing your decision to not like Russell Brand based on his personality or what he's actually saying. If you disagree with the points he's making why do you disagree?
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Dec 8, 2014 20:31:37 GMT
'Personality and politics are inextricably linked' Discuss (No more than 1500 words) I'm not denying that they aren't linked, of course they are. However are you basing your decision to not like Russell Brand based on his personality or what he's actually saying. If you disagree with the points he's making why do you disagree? Neither. It's not what he says that bothers me it's the way he says it. Get out of that.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 8, 2014 20:37:42 GMT
I'm not denying that they aren't linked, of course they are. However are you basing your decision to not like Russell Brand based on his personality or what he's actually saying. If you disagree with the points he's making why do you disagree? Neither. It's not what he says that bothers me it's the way he says it. Get out of that. Don't need to get out of anything, the fact that you can't pick fault with what he's saying says it all.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 8, 2014 20:43:21 GMT
I don't think he grasps that the message loses impact based on delivery and deliverer
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 8, 2014 20:46:24 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30383784Russell Brand has thrown himself into political activism recently but a YouGov poll of 2,000 people found he's the celebrity seen as having the most "negative influence" on political debate. The same YouGov run by Stephen Shakespeare a privately educated failed Tory MP, of course he would have no agenda now would he?
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 8, 2014 20:53:33 GMT
I don't think he grasps that the message loses impact based on delivery and deliverer Of course that's why he's got 8.7 million followers on Twitter and an increasing amount subscribing to his YouTube channel, in comparison David Cameron has got £856k followers. I don't think his message is losing its impact anytime soon so you're going to be disappointed
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Post by salopstick on Dec 8, 2014 20:54:03 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/30383784Russell Brand has thrown himself into political activism recently but a YouGov poll of 2,000 people found he's the celebrity seen as having the most "negative influence" on political debate. The same YouGov run by Stephen Shakespeare a privately educated failed Tory MP, of course he would have no agenda now would he? i will remember next time when they poll against govt
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Dec 8, 2014 20:54:14 GMT
I'm making an assumption here (so please correct me if I'm wrong) but I get the impression that you didn't like him before he was politically active, whether it's to do with the way he dresses, his previous mistakes (which he acknowledges he's made a fair few of). But if you strip every pre-conceived notion you have of him away and just focus on what he's actually got to say I think it's very difficult to argue that he isn't talking sense unless your part of the corporate gravy train that he's challenging. It's clear that not everyone is clued up politically, because if we as a society were I don't think the kind of social injustices that are currently being allowed to happen right now would be taking place. Not everyone accesses what I would consider to be good examples of journalism, like George Monbiots excellent article in The Guardian today regarding taming corporate power, and because of this I think the message will only reach some people like Russell Brand who are in the mainstream media and attract a lot more attention than the ordinary journalist actually voice their opinion and stand up for what they believe in, the more people become aware of what's going on the more change is likely to occur as a result. Would you really rather he went back to being the old Russell Brand? Keep picking up the considerable pay checks and just keep quiet about what he sees as unjust, unnecessary system that is currently only exceeding in making the gap between the rich and poor larger and larger? I'm glad he's prepared to stick his neck out and challenge the system, I just wish more people would do the same. are you russell brand? I'm wondering if **************'s back.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 8, 2014 21:04:10 GMT
I don't think he grasps that the message loses impact based on delivery and deliverer Of course that's why he's got 8.7 million followers on Twitter and an increasing amount subscribing to his YouTube channel, in comparison David Cameron has got £856k followers. I don't think his message is losing its impact anytime soon so you're going to be disappointed Style over substance
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 8, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
Of course that's why he's got 8.7 million followers on Twitter and an increasing amount subscribing to his YouTube channel, in comparison David Cameron has got £856k followers. I don't think his message is losing its impact anytime soon so you're going to be disappointed Style over substance You're entitled to your opinion and I'll leave it at that.
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Post by salopstick on Dec 8, 2014 21:12:06 GMT
You are no fun
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Post by redstriper on Dec 8, 2014 21:48:17 GMT
If he has 8 million followers on twatter - that's depressing, he is a demogogue*. Fortunately he also has attention deficit disorder, which strikes everytime anyone else gets a word in, so he should get bored of politics any day now.
* a big word for him which I used purely to make myself look clever...
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Post by trickydicky73 on Dec 8, 2014 21:48:52 GMT
I think it's "poof", mate! I bow to your superior knowledge on such matters. Nice one!
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 8, 2014 23:58:47 GMT
If he has 8 million followers on twatter - that's depressing, he is a demogogue*. Fortunately he also has attention deficit disorder, which strikes everytime anyone else gets a word in, so he should get bored of politics any day now. * a big word for him which I used purely to make myself look clever... I'd stick to using simpler words if I were you because you've either used demagogue incorrectly or you've just got no idea about the arguments he's been raising. He's certainly tried to arouse arguments based on passion that's what all politicians do, but show me even just one of his arguments where his judgement is based on prejudice of any kind? I can guarantee you won't be able to, and you'll end up either ignoring this question or deflecting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2014 0:00:16 GMT
Can I use that baseball bat that was suggested on One Direction for this bastard
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2014 0:28:44 GMT
I've just watched him being interviewed outside his flat on "have I got news for you " and the daft cunt once again lived up to his reputation.
Sorry to piss on his disciple , but he is one egotistical , thick hypocritical wanker of the highest order.
I' ve SHIT better material than this useless plank.
Don't take my word for , Google it.
He is one arrogant arsewipe that anyone with half a brain cell can clearly see is only interested in self promotion.
I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.
pretentious moi ?
The end.
Mumf
(The snobby end of Fegg Hayes )
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Post by britsabroad on Dec 9, 2014 1:25:53 GMT
He just gets noticed because unless it's reality TV or celebrity most people aren't interested anymore. He has a platform he could make use of but all he is doing is regurgitating the same rubbish all the other wannabe anarchists have been for years. There's nothing revolutionary about that. Complain about what's wrong, from your comfortable home, but give no realistic alternatives let alone a method to achieve them.
When he starts coming up with some solutions then he is worth taking notice of. Im not holding my breath.
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 9, 2014 9:55:12 GMT
I've just watched him being interviewed outside his flat on "have I got news for you " and the daft cunt once again lived up to his reputation. Sorry to piss on his disciple , but he is one egotistical , thick hypocritical wanker of the highest order. I' ve SHIT better material than this useless plank. Don't take my word for , Google it. He is one arrogant arsewipe that anyone with half a brain cell can clearly see is only interested in self promotion. I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. pretentious moi ? The end. Mumf (The snobby end of Fegg Hayes ) Wow Mumfy I don't even know where to start on this one you're so wrong. I can't find this interview you're talking about so if you could link it that'd be great because I'd very much like a debate with you on why what he's saying is wrong. I've asked on more than one occasion in this discussion to everyone who doesn't like him to put forward a reasonable argument as to why what he's saying is actually wrong, and not one person has managed to do this including yourself. Here's the thing right, I fully respect opinions like Salops because he's arguing its not what Brand is saying that's the problem, it's because he doesn't like with how its being delivered, which is down to personal taste and its a reasonable position to take. Whilst I wholeheartedly disagree with him, I can't possibly tell him he's wrong for saying it because he's entitled to his opinion. Putting all of that to one side for the moment, some of the absolute nonsense and vitriol you post is disgusting. I could respect your argument if you were actually capable of arguing in an informed, reasoned manner (which you aren't). Especially when you're saying ridiculous things like ' I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire'. Is there really any need for such comments, are you really so full of hatred, so lacking in compassion and respect that you have to resort to spouting such hyperbolic bullshit?
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 9, 2014 9:56:02 GMT
double post
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2014 10:15:38 GMT
I've just watched him being interviewed outside his flat on "have I got news for you " and the daft cunt once again lived up to his reputation. Sorry to piss on his disciple , but he is one egotistical , thick hypocritical wanker of the highest order. I' ve SHIT better material than this useless plank. Don't take my word for , Google it. He is one arrogant arsewipe that anyone with half a brain cell can clearly see is only interested in self promotion. I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. pretentious moi ? The end. Mumf (The snobby end of Fegg Hayes ) Wow Mumfy I don't even know where to start on this one you're so wrong. I can't find this interview you're talking about so if you could link it that'd be great because I'd very much like a debate with you on why what he's saying is wrong. I've asked on more than one occasion in this discussion to everyone who doesn't like him to put forward a reasonable argument as to why what he's saying is actually wrong, and not one person has managed to do this including yourself. Here's the thing right, I fully respect opinions like Salops because he's arguing its not what Brand is saying that's the problem, it's because he doesn't like with how its being delivered, which is down to personal taste and its a reasonable position to take. Whilst I wholeheartedly disagree with him, I can't possibly tell him he's wrong for saying it because he's entitled to his opinion. Putting all of that to one side for the moment, some of the absolute nonsense and vitriol you post is disgusting. I could respect your argument if you were actually capable of arguing in an informed, reasoned manner (which you aren't). Especially when you're saying ridiculous things like ' I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire'. Is there really any need for such comments, are you really so full of hatred, so lacking in compassion and respect that you have to resort to spouting such hyperbolic bullshit? I have just answered answered you . Read it ! If you don't like what I' ve written , then tough shit and I repeat don't engage. You may have hours to argue the toss over this excuse of a man , but I have businesses to run. I have no compassion whatsoever for the shitbag and if you find it 'disgusting' then good. My opinion is my own .
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Post by edgepotter on Dec 9, 2014 10:25:12 GMT
Wow Mumfy I don't even know where to start on this one you're so wrong. I can't find this interview you're talking about so if you could link it that'd be great because I'd very much like a debate with you on why what he's saying is wrong. I've asked on more than one occasion in this discussion to everyone who doesn't like him to put forward a reasonable argument as to why what he's saying is actually wrong, and not one person has managed to do this including yourself. Here's the thing right, I fully respect opinions like Salops because he's arguing its not what Brand is saying that's the problem, it's because he doesn't like with how its being delivered, which is down to personal taste and its a reasonable position to take. Whilst I wholeheartedly disagree with him, I can't possibly tell him he's wrong for saying it because he's entitled to his opinion. Putting all of that to one side for the moment, some of the absolute nonsense and vitriol you post is disgusting. I could respect your argument if you were actually capable of arguing in an informed, reasoned manner (which you aren't). Especially when you're saying ridiculous things like ' I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire'. Is there really any need for such comments, are you really so full of hatred, so lacking in compassion and respect that you have to resort to spouting such hyperbolic bullshit? I have just answered answered you . Read it ! If you don't like what I' ve written , then tough shit and I repeat don't engage. You may have hours to argue the toss over this excuse of a man , but I have businesses to run. I have no compassion whatsoever for the shitbag and if you find it 'disgusting' then good. My opinion is my own . Oh my days you're so incompetent at debating (or just incredibly stupid). You haven't answered anything, you've just mentioned some vague interview that I can't find whilst raising no specific, well reasoned points as to why what he's saying is actually incorrect and saying he's thick. It doesn't back up your argument in any way. It's no good having an opinion if its not an informed one that you can successfully argue in a coherent form.
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